2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

Amerika

Brian? wrote: »

It's feels strange to no be replused by Glenn Beck.

LOL. Probably part of the reason why Glen Beck's empire is collapsing.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/29/head-of-glenn-beck-s-media-empire-quits-as-the-blaze-burns-down.html

Pro Hoc Vice

Brian? wrote: »

It's feels strange to no be replused by Glenn Beck.

I so agree maybe we seeing the birth of the third way.

oscarBravo

Amerika wrote: »

LOL. Probably part of the reason why Glen Beck's empire is collapsing.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/29/head-of-glenn-beck-s-media-empire-quits-as-the-blaze-burns-down.html

It really is tragic how any deviation from extreme polarisation is pilloried. There truly doesn't seem to be any room for the centre in modern politics.

If compromise is invariably decried as weakness, the only remaining option is permanent conflict, which isn't in anyone's interest - except those for whom conflict is their meat and mead, such as the Ann Coulters of this world. And a world in which Ann Coulter thrives is not the sort of world I want to live in.

Strangely enough, I would have said the same thing about Glenn Beck. But clearly he has committed the unpardonable sin of accepting the possibility that anyone who disagrees with him might not be an antichrist, and so we have right-wingers gloating over his demise.

oscarBravo

I see Trump has doubled-down on his view that if women don't want to be raped, they shouldn't serve alongside men in the military.

Remember, ladies: if you will insist on pretending that you can do a man's job, you've only yourself to blame for being raped.

Trump/Pence: Making America 1950 Again.

Amerika

oscarBravo wrote: »

I see Trump has doubled-down on his view that if women don't want to be raped, they shouldn't serve alongside men in the military.

Remember, ladies: if you will insist on pretending that you can do a man's job, you've only yourself to blame for being raped.

Trump/Pence: Making America 1950 Again.

What were you watching? Something must have gotten lost in translation going over the pond. I heard him state that the prosecution rate of sex offenders in the military was detestably low. That prosecutions needed to be increased for sex offenders and be done through the military and not the US court system. And the women entering the military needed to feel safe from the potential of being raped. And he was correct then as he is now... rape experiences would increase with the mixing of men and women in the military. It's just common sense.

Brian?

Amerika wrote: »

LOL. Probably part of the reason why Glen Beck's empire is collapsing.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/29/head-of-glenn-beck-s-media-empire-quits-as-the-blaze-burns-down.html

You take delight in Beck's fall?

Akrasia

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Of course it is an absolute cert. They could dust off Dukakis and he'd beat Trump.

Arizona is neck and neck. Trump may even take McCain down with him.

And Brexit would never pass.....

Amerika

Brian? wrote: »

You take delight in Beck's fall?

No. It was a comment regarding oscarBravo lamenting how tragic it is how any deviation from extreme polarization is pilloried. You can't force people to support someone’s move to the center, just as you can't force people to be loyal to a sitcom when they completely change the show's format. Beck is failing in my opinion because his attitude now seems to have adopted the characteristic of the people he has detested for so many years. He seems to have found a new religion... Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals. If you have been a regular follower of Beck's you are now turned off more by this new puerile style of his, rather than the content of his message. Although I do delight in the fact that this new immature style isn't working with his viewers.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Billy86

Amerika wrote: »

No. It was a comment regarding oscarBravo lamenting how tragic it is how any deviation from extreme polarization is pilloried. You can't force people to support someone’s move to the center, just as you can't force people to be loyal to a sitcom when they completely change the show's format. Beck is failing in my opinion because his attitude now seems to have adopted the characteristic of the people he has detested for so many years. He seems to have found a new religion... Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals. If you have been a regular follower of Beck's you are now turned off more by this new puerile style of his, rather than the content of his message. Although I do delight in the fact that this new immature style isn't working with his viewers.

No Donald Trump is a big fat Saul Alinsky, so there! http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/261692-glenn-beck-on-trump-he-is-saul-alinsky

beach_walker

Oh dear, Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson "What is Aleppo?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKb2oiJluLk

I know he's been polling in the high single digits and was looking for a place at the debates but surely this kills off his image as the alternative to Trump for "smart Republicans" as has been played for the past few months.

ancapailldorcha

beach_walker wrote: »

I know he's been polling in the high single digits and was looking for a place at the debates but surely this kills off his image as the alternative to Trump for "smart Republicans" as has been played for the past few months.

I very much doubt it. It's one gaffe. One. Look at the other pair of "options". It'll be interesting to see if it gets widespread coverage. That'll serve as an indicator of how seriously the media takes Johnson as a threat. It should also be noted that he answered the question properly once he was informed that Aleppo is in Syria.

beach_walker

Oh right, I see your title

I dunno, I wouldn't agree with Libertarian policies but always thought Johnson was an intelligent character. This really tarnishes my image of the guy tbh. Not knowing what Aleppo is given the coverage of Syria over the past 5 years is remarkable for someone running for the White House. I think you'd have to actually avoid the news to not know that its a city, let alone its significance in the state of the massive humanitarian crisis in the region. I know his sort are isolationist but c'mon! Sure it's only been two days since the news was full of the story about how chlorine has been dropped on the town.

His follow up wasn't any better. Comparing not knowing about it to a random town in New Mexico? Sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3SNLPfVGt4

ancapailldorcha

beach_walker wrote: »

Oh right, I see your title

I dunno, I wouldn't agree with Libertarian policies but always thought Johnson was an intelligent character. This really tarnishes my image of the guy tbh. Not knowing what Aleppo is given the coverage of Syria over the past 5 years is remarkable for someone running for the White House. I think you'd have to actually avoid the news to not know that its a city, let alone its significance in the state of the massive humanitarian crisis in the region. I know his sort are isolationist but c'mon! Sure it's only been two days since the news was full of the story about how chlorine has been dropped on the town.

His follow up wasn't any better. Comparing not knowing about it to a random town in New Mexico? Sure.

I'd be more of a strong liberal than a libertarian. However, Johnson is clearly the best of the available options as far as I can see.

Look, it's a cockup. Pit that against Trump's though. Or Hillary's previous acts in her governmental roles. Your link isn't working btw.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

oscarBravo

Amerika wrote: »

What were you watching? Something must have gotten lost in translation going over the pond. I heard him state that the prosecution rate of sex offenders in the military was detestably low. That prosecutions needed to be increased for sex offenders and be done through the military and not the US court system. And the women entering the military needed to feel safe from the potential of being raped. And he was correct then as he is now... rape experiences would increase with the mixing of men and women in the military. It's just common sense.

The original tweet said: "26,000 unreported sexual assults in the military-only 238 convictions. What did these geniuses expect when they put men & women together?"

Matt Layer asked him about it, and he said "I think that's correct."

Now, you can try to deflect by pointing to some other things he said, but he stood over that disgraceful tweet, before simultaneously trying to say something different.

I must try to keep in mind the Trump supporter's ability to edit out anything he says that they might disagree with. It's very convenient: it means he can take both sides on any issue, and his fans will only hear the bits they agree with.

20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Loaded question.

How about someone with the basic knowledge about what is going on in the world. Johnson makes Trump sound like Einstein.

Overheal

He had knowledge if you bothered to hear is response.

beach_walker wrote: »

Oh dear, Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson "What is Aleppo?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKb2oiJluLk

I know he's been polling in the high single digits and was looking for a place at the debates but surely this kills off his image as the alternative to Trump for "smart Republicans" as has been played for the past few months.

Sir how do you feel about the Crisis in Springfield

"Which Springfield"

omg are you serious

^ about sums up how blown out of proportion that gaffe is.

Won't someone think about what's happening in - Karbala? YOU DONT KNOW OFF YHE TOP OF YOUR HEAD WHAT THAT IS. GRRR

Billy86

I don't agree either that it's right to pile on over an admittedly pretty poor gaffe. The guys reputation is largely built up over decades of work, and while being a Libertarian makes the optics a bit worse due to their typically more insular nature, it's way too much to try and say this buries someone. Just look at Joe Biden for instance, a great politician who would have strolled his way into the White House without breaking a single sweat had he run, but also a gaffe machine at times.

There is often far too much emphasis put on someone's public speaking ability when it comes to politics, and not nearly enough on their actual competency and, well... politics. We might like to point at and mock the US over this at times, but even in Ireland we're bad culprits of it.

AbusesToilets

It was a pretty embarrassing gaffe, however not that egregious. I wouldn't be overly supportive of his plan to engage diplomatically with Russia. They have been playing the US for mugs over the last number of years.

A better solution would be to put pressure on Turkey and Iraq to find a peaceful solution which would allow for the creation of a Kurdish state, which could act as a bulwark against extremists operating in the region. Leave Syria to the Russians and Iranians to solve.

AbusesToilets

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I'd be more of a strong liberal than a libertarian. However, Johnson is clearly the best of the available options as far as I can see.

Look, it's a cockup. Pit that against Trump's though. Or Hillary's previous acts in her governmental roles. Your link isn't working btw.

He has my vote, though don't agree with a lot of his policy proposals.

Billy86

20Cent wrote: »

Loaded question.

How about someone with the basic knowledge about what is going on in the world. Johnson makes Trump sound like Einstein.

How so?

Amerika

oscarBravo wrote: »

I must try to keep in mind the Trump supporter's ability to edit out anything he says that they might disagree with. It's very convenient: it means he can take both sides on any issue, and his fans will only hear the bits they agree with.

I'd say the same could be said about his detractors.

Amerika

AbusesToilets wrote: »

He has my vote, though don't agree with a lot of his policy proposals.

I believe a lot of people feel the same. There are only two candidates who have a chance of becoming the next president. And even with all of Trump’s failings, the alternative is even worse.

K-9

oscarBravo wrote: »

The original tweet said: "26,000 unreported sexual assults in the military-only 238 convictions. What did these geniuses expect when they put men & women together?"

Matt Layer asked him about it, and he said "I think that's correct."

Now, you can try to deflect by pointing to some other things he said, but he stood over that disgraceful tweet, before simultaneously trying to say something different.

I must try to keep in mind the Trump supporter's ability to edit out anything he says that they might disagree with. It's very convenient: it means he can take both sides on any issue, and his fans will only hear the bits they agree with.

I wonder will we see many other politicians conduct campaigns over twitter? Doubt it myself. It doesn't allow for nuance and Trump makes it worse because he doubles down on the dumb tweets.

I suppose politics these days is a reaction to the more centrist politicians of the 90's and 00's but sites like twitter don't help. People don't seem to debate anymore, just point and shout at each other. Something like 2/3'rds of people don't think Facebook is a place to post about politics and you know something l, they're probably right.

RobertKK

beach_walker wrote: »

Oh dear, Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson "What is Aleppo?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKb2oiJluLk

I know he's been polling in the high single digits and was looking for a place at the debates but surely this kills off his image as the alternative to Trump for "smart Republicans" as has been played for the past few months.

They showed this to a guy from London someone by the name of Fawaz Gerges, who is the chair of middle eastern studies at the London school of economics.
The guy was as stupid as Gary Johnson and went into a tirade of how Trump knows nothing about the middle east.
Becky Anderson just stayed quiet and didn't know what to say as she didn't seemingly want to criticise a guest on her show, but you could see she was surprised at the answer.

I hope Mr Gerges looks back on his discussion with Becky and see who how embarrassing he was.

Overheal

Seriously: who would have (honestly) known what Aleppo was if you were asked that on the street yesterday? Show of hands

20Cent

Overheal wrote: »

Seriously: who would have (honestly) known what Aleppo was if you were asked that on the street yesterday? Show of hands

Of course it's been in the news a lot particularly the last few weeks. The video of the little boy in the ambulance after a bombing made worldwide headlines.

RobertKK

Overheal wrote: »

Seriously: who would have (honestly) known what Aleppo was if you were asked that on the street yesterday? Show of hands

It is a major city in Syria. CNN talking about Aleppo for months,
Russia with Assad recently opened up a safe passage for people to escape the besieged city.
But geography has been always one of my strongest subjects.

K-9

Anybody who follows the news would have heard of it, but maybe it wouldn't register with most.

A politician? It isn't quiet "I can see Russia from my house" levels but it is pretty ignorant.

beach_walker

Overheal wrote: »

Seriously: who would have (honestly) known what Aleppo was if you were asked that on the street yesterday? Show of hands

Anybody who watches/reads the international news? But even to narrow it down, the chlorine attack on the town was one of the top BBC stories two days ago.

eire4

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I'd be more of a strong liberal than a libertarian. However, Johnson is clearly the best of the available options as far as I can see.

Look, it's a cockup. Pit that against Trump's though. Or Hillary's previous acts in her governmental roles. Your link isn't working btw.

I would agree with you that while it is a bad screw up on Johnson's part this campaign has shown the US political system in such a bad light that bad screws ups like this seem to be quite common place.

As for options while certainly I would take Johnson over Trump any day of the week. I do not like his everyman for himself mindset to government. Such as say reducing the already ineffective and limited regulations on banks which already have destroyed so many peoples lives, passing a constitutional amendment to require a balanced budget, ending public education, repealing all gun control laws, turning health care back into a completely for profit industry, eliminate the minimum wage, no welfare, no collective bargaining and the ultimate in every man for himself end social security and privatize it.

No thanks for me on Gary Johnson and his every man for himself approach.

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

Seriously: who would have (honestly) known what Aleppo was if you were asked that on the street yesterday? Show of hands

We're not running to become president of a superpower nation.

Amerika

K-9 wrote: »

A politician? It isn't quiet "I can see Russia from my house" levels but it is pretty ignorant.

A politician didn't say that, you know. But who cares about the truth, eh?

eire4

K-9 wrote: »

I wonder will we see many other politicians conduct campaigns over twitter? Doubt it myself. It doesn't allow for nuance and Trump makes it worse because he doubles down on the dumb tweets.

I suppose politics these days is a reaction to the more centrist politicians of the 90's and 00's but sites like twitter don't help. People don't seem to debate anymore, just point and shout at each other. Something like 2/3'rds of people don't think Facebook is a place to post about politics and you know something l, they're probably right.

I would contend that over the last few decades since the fairness doctrine was first sidelined we have seen a lurch in the MSM in the US towards a focus on what gets ratings and therefore more money for them regardless of what is in the publics interest and we have also seen more and more of the MSM stations take extreme positions and basically become propaganda outlets rather then actually putting out anything that is balanced and actually informative. Not saying that is only to blame for the current climate but I would contend that it is a major contributor and that the US MSM is very much part of the problem when it comes to how corrupt and broken the US political system is currently.

Amerika

beach_walker wrote: »

Anybody who watches/reads the international news? But even to narrow it down, the chlorine attack on the town was one of the top BBC stories two days ago.

I’m curious, where did Assad get all these weapons of mass destruction? Perhaps they came in those trucks that crossed the border from Iraq into Syria when the US started bombing Iraq in 2003.

Overheal

RobertKK wrote: »

It is a major city in Syria. CNN talking about Aleppo for months,
Russia with Assad recently opened up a safe passage for people to escape the besieged city.
But geography has been always one of my strongest subjects.

Perhaps he's a cord cutter? I haven't watched CNN outside of a streamed debate in well over a few years. I wouldn't even have watched FOX in that long if my father didn't have it running 24/7 at his place. Poor guy. So while I haven't heard of Aleppo personally I have heard of things like the North Dakota Pipeline and Bernie Sanders, long before the media acknowledged that either existed

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

We're not running to become president of a superpower nation.

What was it Trump said when he was ignorant of information and lacking in skills? He'd have advisors. He'd have the best advisors. He hires the best people. Etc.

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

What was it Trump said when he was ignorant of information and lacking in skills? He'd have advisors. He'd have the best advisors. He hires the best people. Etc.

Yup. Did Johnson follow Trumps lead?

Overheal

Hard to say. Not much excuse for the NYT though

Amerika

Amerika wrote: »

I’m curious, where did Assad get all these weapons of mass destruction? Perhaps they came in those trucks that crossed the border from Iraq into Syria when the US started bombing Iraq in 2003.

I figure everyone will ignore this question like the plague (Can’t have there be a justification to the Iraq War that was in part based on WMD, now can we?), so I’ll help y’all out.

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2012/07/14/and-where-did-syrias-chemical-weapons/

SHOCK, HORROR... it can’t be there ACTUALLY WAS WMD IN IRAQ. Please everyone, divert your eyes from this revelation, as it may cause you to go blind?

Overheal

I'll wait for the proof; " if the spent shells are found to possess Iraqi markings of manufacture"

Seems like a reasonable hypothesis.

K-9

Amerika wrote: »

A politician didn't say that, you know. But who cares about the truth, eh?

Oh indeed, perception over rules truth.

Palin had zero knowledge of world affairs and came out with some clangers in that interview. But let's focus on details in order to divert from the wider point.

K-9

Mod: Just before the "but Breitbart" comments, either comment on the contents of the article or post a link contradicting it. There's a thread for media bias.

Amerika

K-9 wrote: »

Oh indeed, perception over rules truth.

Palin had zero knowledge of world affairs and came out with some clangers in that interview. But let's focus on details in order to divert from the wider point.

You know Barack Obama, as a one term US Senator running for president had roughly the same knowledge of world affairs as did Palin when she ran for only VP. I guess details only matter when it helps the side of the political aisle you're sitting on.

Amerika

K-9 wrote: »

Mod: Just before the "but Breitbart" comments, either comment on the contents of the article or post a link contradicting it. There's a thread for media bias.

Thank you, and for those who cannot bear the thought of reading any factual reporting from Breitbart, here are some articles that might be more palatable.

http://www.nysun.com/foreign/iraqs-wmd-secreted-in-syria-sada-says/26514/
http://www.meforum.org/755/syria-after-lebanon-the-growing-syrian-missile

gosplan

Amerika wrote: »

I figure everyone will ignore this question like the plague (Can’t have there be a justification to the Iraq War that was in part based on WMD, now can we?), so I’ll help y’all out.

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2012/07/14/and-where-did-syrias-chemical-weapons/

SHOCK, HORROR... it can’t be there ACTUALLY WAS WMD IN IRAQ. Please everyone, divert your eyes from this revelation, as it may cause you to go blind?

Why bring that up unless you're looking to provoke.

It's a massively off topic tangent thrown in to start an argument because you weren't getting your fix IMO.

Pointless discussing anything if that's your motivation.

K-9

If we think the thread is getting derailed with something we'll move posts over to a new thread, but as it's a megathread all sorts of stuff will come up, that is to be expected. Report any topics that you feel are taking over the thread.

As it comes nearer November we'll probably see more stand alone threads opened with this a more general, polls, news of the day type thread.

Billy86

K-9 wrote: »

Mod: Just before the "but Breitbart" comments, either comment on the contents of the article or post a link contradicting it. There's a thread for media bias.

Safe to assume this also applies to certain posters referring to the likes of CNN or NBC as 'left wing conspiracy' sites, 'shills for Hillary' etc without addressing any of what was said therein?

K-9

Billy86 wrote: »

Safe to assume this also applies to certain posters referring to the likes of CNN or NBC as 'left wing conspiracy' sites, 'shills for Hillary' etc without addressing any of what was said therein?

Yep, there's a thread where ye can all knock yourselves out on that. I'm sure everybody will all agree at the end of it.