2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

26000 Elephants

The white house will be akin to a kindergarten after his inauguration. Ive never heard of such childish blather from so called 'adults*' in my life.

This 3 million claim is farcical in the extreme. Greg Phillips makes the claim from looking at 180 million records in a "database of voter registration forms". He then elegantly pivots that into "3 million votes cast". Of course there is no correlation.

He has failed to make the distinction that the voter records he has examined are exclusively federal election records. While non citizens cannot vote for president, they may vote in local state elections. The existence of non citizens on electorate records is, on its own, not unusual.

Clever manipulation of stupid people.





* assuming commentators have reached voting age.

Brian?

K-9 wrote: »

Some people say...

It really is a quite clever get out clause. Must start using it myself. Some people say the earth is flat...

Some people say that they've heard reports of suspicions of voter fraud on a massive scale.

Amerika

Brian? wrote: »

Why doesn't initiate the proceedings for a recount in NH?

Why doesn't he hand the evidence of this massive voter fraud over to the justice department? Massive is not hyperbole here.

Because with all the efforts to suppress voter ID laws, there is virtually no way to prove voter fraud in a challenge. And up till now that’s what the democrats have always wanted.

The way to stop voter fraud is before it happens, not afterward.

And you do know dead American voters overwhelmingly vote democrat by a margin of 9 to 1.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-30/meet-young-virginia-democrat-registered-19-dead-people-vote-virginia

Amerika

Brian? wrote: »

Can you link me up with some credible reports of voter fraud from the 2016 general election please?

Here's one from Virginia. Took me about 5 seconds, at most, to find.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-30/meet-young-virginia-democrat-registered-19-dead-people-vote-virginia

Amerika

Christy42 wrote: »

He should push to see how many illegals voted. He won't because he knows the answer is tiny. The Democrats and Hillary have stated that they don't believe any fraud took place either. This is Jill Stein. I can imagine she simply doesn't like someone who thinks the Chinese made up global warming for her own reasons.

I think investigations should be made and they can recommend the best ways to stop whatever fraud is happening if any (it is likely none).

Come on it is 4 years to the next one. Why is Trump so critical of investigations if he believes fraud took place.

The time to stop this type of thing is before an election, with things like valid photo ID required to vote. It is near impossible to get to the bottom of things after an election. And that is why democrats have always been against things like valid ID to vote.

Igotadose

Cool plugin for Chrome. Propornot. Highlights what links repeat, echo or refer their audience to Russian propaganda.

Here's one: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...-vote-virginia

Amerika

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'm sure that if his AG just happens to make a completely unilateral decision to fire up a witchhunt against Clinton, he'll deny any involvement. And, of course, his supporters will develop another dose of that incredibly useful selective amnesia they've perfected recently, and conveniently forget all about the fact that he made a campaign promise to abuse his power and have his opponent jailed.

But hey: maybe it's possible that Trump won't waste any power and influence on Hillary. It's becoming clear that his plans for his power and influence revolve primarily around enriching himself and his family.

I figure Trump supporters have learned the ways of Obama and Clinton and their supporters, eh?

Billy86

Brian? wrote: »

Can you link me up with some credible reports of voter fraud from the 2016 general election please?

Amerika wrote: »

Here's one from Virginia. Took me about 5 seconds, at most, to find.

Here's the finding from Snopes. Took me about 5 seconds, at most, to find...

http://www.snopes.com/2016/10/02/19-dead-people-registered/

While images like the one displayed above are based on a investigation taking place in Virginia, they also promulgate several unsubstantiated claims and unofficial pieces of information.

As of this writing, no one has been charged with any crimes in connection with the reported story.

The Snopes report came after the article cited. This is what happens when posters think they're fooling anyone (even themselves) by trying to pass ZeroHedge off as credible.

beans

Igotadose wrote: »

Cool plugin for Chrome. Propornot. Highlights what links repeat, echo or refer their audience to Russian propaganda.

Here's one: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...-vote-virginia

Good article on the shady back-story to PropOrNot

20Cent

Trumps latest tweet those who burn the American flag should have their citizenship taken off them or be sent to jail.

Freedumb.

InTheTrees

20Cent wrote: »

Trumps latest tweet those who burn the American flag should have their citizenship taken off them or be sent to jail.

Freedumb.

He plans to send the exiles to Canada apparently.

Amerika

InTheTrees wrote: »

He plans to send the exiles to Canada apparently.

He'll have a problem with that. Canada apparently doesn't want any of our fleeing liberals.

http://heatst.com/politics/canadians-dont-want-america-fleeing-american-liberals-especially-lena-dunham/

Billy86

Amerika wrote: »

He'll have a problem with that. Canada apparently doesn't want any of our fleeing liberals.

http://heatst.com/politics/canadians-dont-want-america-fleeing-american-liberals-especially-lena-dunham/

Meanwhile the Canadian population voted for a Liberal government comfortably. Don't let facts get in the way of a good old fashioned, transparent agenda.

Canada just doesn't want Americans that plan on using it as a "backup" plan (liberals), and/or that do not have the qualifications to contribute (rustbelters). Or of course the eejits on the alt right side of things. As a country, they're doing perfectly fine and are in much healthier mental shape than the US.

KingBrian2

In other unrelated news President Obama and Trump are moving closer together. Both are putting clear water between themselves, America and Al Nusra in the Syrian conflict zone.

Theirs your first campaign promise delivered. A bit of Russian diplomacy to go down with that and i'd call that a good days work for El Presidente Trump.

On a serious note good to see the US of A recognize that Al Nusra are as bad as ISIS and America should rightly have nothing to do with those crazy scumbags.

26000 Elephants

Amerika wrote: »

Here's one from Virginia. Took me about 5 seconds, at most, to find.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-30/meet-young-virginia-democrat-registered-19-dead-people-vote-virginia

Again, that article fudges the line between 'registered to vote' and 'voted''

If you registered to vote when you were 18, and died last year and nobody took you off the register, would that in itself be 'voter fraud'? The idea is nonsense.

Its entirely possible that an effort to register 25,000 people would, after 2 years include 19 people who unfortunately died in the meantime.

Brian?

Amerika wrote: »

Here's one from Virginia. Took me about 5 seconds, at most, to find.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-30/meet-young-virginia-democrat-registered-19-dead-people-vote-virginia

Right so.

I couldn't be bothered anymore. You're going to post shockingly poor "evidence", I'll question the source and then you'll accuse me of ad hominem attacks. Let's just save ourselves the trouble.

I'll ask you this. If Trump is so concerned about voter fraud, what's he doing about it?

26000 Elephants

Amerika wrote: »

But it shows intent to commit voter fraud and following through on that intent... even admission of guilt.

No. It does not.....

I think I see the ploy here. Its impossible to reason against flawed logic such as this, no more than the keenest blade cannot cut that which offers no resistance.

Any intelligent answer to this will appear as trolling to the terminally dense.

Igotadose

beans wrote: »

Good article on the shady back-story to PropOrNot

Ehh. Greenwald doesn't like it, makes it more credible in my view.

The details on their site seem pretty convincing to me - and calling out ZeroHedge as what it is - an echo of RussiaToday, is fine by me, others have made similar claims.

TheOven

RobertKK wrote: »

Paul Begala who is a Democrat strategist and supporter last night called Trump a genius.
He said Trump settled the Trump University case, then attacked the musical Hamilton so everyone was talking about Hamilton.
Then there was the talk of a conflict of interests with his businesses so he goes on a twitter rant about the election and how he won the popular vote due to millions of illegal votes. So people stoppped talking about a conflict of interests and instead have been talking about the election.
Begala seemed really impressed at how Trump manipulates the news stories, that while it may seem erratic what he posts on twitter, doing what he has done has achieved the aims he sought.

There was a Republican guy on he same show on Anderson 360 who said there are people who are dead who are still registered to vote, and people who are registered in more than one state to vote. The figure for both combines came into the millions.

Is Trump back to be a master manipulator of the media then? I remember that was also the claim before people started complaining that the media were biased by quoting him.

aloyisious

Brian? wrote: »

Right so.

I couldn't be bothered anymore. You're going to post shockingly poor "evidence", I'll question the source and then you'll accuse me of ad hominem attacks. Let's just save ourselves the trouble.

I'll ask you this. If Trump is so concerned about voter fraud, what's he doing about it?

He's probably has a chat with himself and/or others and realised "hey, it worked for me, there's nothing to fix" nothing to see here folk, move along....

osmiumartist

Igotadose wrote: »

Ehh. Greenwald doesn't like it, makes it more credible in my view.

The details on their site seem pretty convincing to me - and calling out ZeroHedge as what it is - an echo of RussiaToday, is fine by me, others have made similar claims.

"claims" you say. Are they more or less convincing than "reports" that seem to have some people losing the run of themselves?

osmiumartist

K-9 wrote: »

@26000 Elephants & osmiumartist, cut it out.

As for this bail out discussion, I'd suggest bailing out of it! Seriously, we're just going round in circles and somebody will end getting frustrated and there'll be cards and/or bans!

There was a post from 26000 Elephants replying to this admitting he was trolling me and mocking your moderator note. Where has it gone?

ancapailldorcha

osmiumartist wrote: »

There was a post from 26000 Elephants replying to this admitting he was trolling me and mocking your moderator note. Where has it gone?

It was deleted and actioned. Back to the discussion at hand please.

26000 Elephants

osmiumartist wrote: »

There was a post from 26000 Elephants replying to this admitting he was trolling me and mocking your moderator note. Where has it gone?

No I wasnt mocking the moderator. I was mocking you. In case you missed the subtle nuance.

Just stating my case since the moderator decided not to delete your post bringing the whole thing back up again.

.... back to the discussion.....

Mod :

Banned.

Brian?

A Goldman Sachs exec as treasury secretary. Drain the swamp.

Billy86

Brian? wrote: »

A Goldman Sachs exec as treasury secretary. Drain the swamp.

Should fit in nicely among the other Goldman Sachs old boys club (including Steve Bannon) in Trump's inner circle and transition team, to go nicely with long time Wall Street insider Wilbur Ross looking to be a his commerce secretary - something Trump fans will be as chuffed about!

"Wall Street has caused tremendous problems for us"
-Donald Trump, January 2016

:pac:

20Cent

He wants to get rid of lobbyists.

By making them the government.

26000 Elephants

Brian? wrote: »

A Goldman Sachs exec as treasury secretary. Drain the swamp.

To be fair, he is well qualified. But he was speaking about the scope of the job and just talked about reducing corporate tax. Couple that with the projected increase in borrowing ( who do they hope will buy these bonds if he antagonizes both the Chinese and Saudis?) and i can see tough times ahead for ordinary US (non-billionaire ones) taxpayers in the future.

eire4

20Cent wrote: »

He wants to get rid of lobbyists.

By making them the government.

Kind of like how he said in 2012 that the electoral college was a disaster for democracy according to Trump but now after he has lost the popular vote by over 2.5 million it looks pretty good to Trump.

eire4

aloyisious wrote: »

He's probably has a chat with himself and/or others and realised "hey, it worked for me, there's nothing to fix" nothing to see here folk, move along....

Absolutely their cross check voter suppression scam worked a treat for them it seems in this election. I would imagine the Republicans will be looking to increase their voter suppression schemes if anything now that they control 33 out of 50 state legislatures.

BoJack Horseman

General James Mattis is confirmed as SecDef....

Will need a law change/waiver from congress to be approved as he hasn't been out of the service the required 7 years.

Amazingfun

President-Elect Trump LIVE now from Ohio, first stop on the Thank You Tour:

RobertKK

Trump has said the US will stop with regime change and toppling regimes and instead will seek stability, saying regime change and toppling leaders has cost the US $6 trillion.

Billy86

Given that Trump himself has said he thinks there were voting irregularities this is... curious.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/01/donald-trump-michigan-recount-objection

Trump files objection to Jill Stein-led election recount in Michigan

Donald Trump asked the state of Michigan on Thursday to reject Jill Stein’s request for a recount of the presidential election.

FatherTed

Truth behind Trump "saving" 1100 jobs at Carrier:

Trump's deal with United Technologies includes $7 million in financial incentives provided by Indiana to keep 1,100 jobs at Carrier, the company's heating and air conditioning unit, in the state. However, Carrier still plans to move roughly 1,300 other jobs to Mexico and close another facility in Indiana.

Also...

Pethokoukis, a scholar with the conservative-leaning American Enterprise Institute, called it the worst economic speech since Democratic presidential nominee Walter Mondale promised to reverse Reaganomics in 1984.

"The idea that American corporations are going to have to make business decisions, not based on the fact that we've created an ideal environment for economic growth in the United States, but out of fear of punitive actions based on who knows what criteria exactly from a presidential administration. I think that's absolutely chilling," he said in an interview with CNBC's "Closing Bell."

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/01/trumps-carrier-speech-absolutely-chilling-economic-analyst-says.html

Akrasia

Billy86 wrote: »

Given that Trump himself has said he thinks there were voting irregularities this is... curious.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/01/donald-trump-michigan-recount-objection

If Trump doesn't think there's anything to hide, why would he bother challenging this?

"I have a mandate, a huge mandate!, but don't look too closely at the election results.."

Christy42

Akrasia wrote: »

If Trump doesn't think there's anything to hide, why would he bother challenging this?

"I have a mandate, a huge mandate!, but don't look too closely at the election results.."

It is how politics has changed. Going towards fake news and people deciding they can make up facts and get away with calling it an opinion (net immigration is 600k in spite of figures showing it is 300k for the UK in the brexit thread).

It is affecting the European elections as well as more and more fake news stories are being spread and people believe them because they want to and it hardens their views. It means with a bit of money you can flood the market with fake news stories for people to read while crying about msm so they only listen to what you are flooding the market with.

The fact that it has become a world wide issue is worrying for all the election coming up soon https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/dec/02/fake-news-facebook-us-election-around-the-world.

People are sick of experts and their feelings are more important than reality. Sure Trump makes them feel good about their future-the fact that he will make their future worse is besides the point.

K-9

Fake news are just blatant examples.

If you get "hostile" news in a mixed space like boards, you just go to a safe space like reddit and get the news that agrees with you.

aloyisious

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

General James Mattis is confirmed as SecDef....

Will need a law change/waiver from congress to be approved as he hasn't been out of the service the required 7 years.

I'm wondering if Mattis will be the cudgel behind Don's back when he talks to Iran and Russia on matters military, or whether he's already playing a poker move by naming the general. The "WE" of the announcement is curious. It's hardly a distraction move to gain attention?

Brian?

aloyisious wrote: »

I'm wondering if Mattis will be the cudgel behind Don's back when he talks to Iran and Russia on matters military, or whether he's already playing a poker move by naming the general. The "WE" of the announcement is curious. It's hardly a distraction move to gain attention?

Everything Trump has done so far has been designed to get attention.

BoJack Horseman

aloyisious wrote: »

I'm wondering if Mattis will be the cudgel behind Don's back when he talks to Iran and Russia on matters military

Possibly, but I doubt it.
Mattis seems to be a very intelligent and reasoned man, not quite the hot-head that nickname might imply.

Plus, the SecDef doesn't usually take the lead there, that would be the Secretary of State..... even if it is a military matter, though obviously his advise could well be very important.

Apparently this appointment has been very popular among current and former members of the armed forces. Seems a very different appointment compared to the outgoing SecDef Ash Carter, a physicist & public servant whose main 'achievement' is transgendered people in the military....... James Mattis is cut from a very different cloth.

Manic Moran

As one of the current and former members of said armed forces, Mattis 'understands' what a military is supposed to do, and how to do it, in the modern environment. Three of his statements are, I think, right on the money and indicate exactly what sort of philosophy he has.

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet"
"I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you **** with me, I’ll kill you all"
"None of the widely touted new technologies and weapons systems would have helped me in the last three years [in Iraq and Afghanistan]. But I could have used cultural training [and] language training. I could have used more products from American universities [who] understood the world does not revolve around America and [who] embrace coalitions and allies for all of the strengths that they bring us."

His focus is carefully applied violence. He understands that solution number 1 is not to go in with guns blazing. He understands that it's people, not toys and gadgets, which are most important, that you can't interact with someone through a drone, and you can't always shoot your way out of a problem. On the other hand, when use of force is applicable, he generally follows the policy of Lord Fisher: "The essence of war is violence. Moderation in war is imbecility." As a result, he's viewed as something of a modernised extension of the Powell Doctrine: If you're going to use force, if you're going to risk soldiers, don't half-arse it. He cares about the troops, he cares about winning, and as near as we can tell, only cares about other things (Looking at Gender Integration here) if it helps achieve those aims. I think he's also going to be something of a moderating force on the 'isolationist' tendancy Trump has been exhibiting, and on a similar philosophy. If we're going to guarantee Latvian freedom from Russia, we'd better be damned well willing to back it up. On the other hand, poncing about with limited strikes on Libya or whatnot is something I don't think he's going to countenance much.

TheOven

According to the Science, Space and Tech Committee Breitbart and the Daily Mail are where to go for science while ignoring the actual researchers. No wonder republicans want a small government whn they put these idiots in charge. Sadly there was no mention if they took into account that the sun is very hot and affects the climate.

Manic Moran

This presentation by Mattis is about a half-hour long. Probably worth watching to get an idea of how he thinks, and how he views the US military of the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk7GkKmXOGg

eire4

FatherTed wrote: »

Truth behind Trump "saving" 1100 jobs at Carrier:


Also...


http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/01/trumps-carrier-speech-absolutely-chilling-economic-analyst-says.html

Not to mention he said he would get tough with companies who take jobs out of the US. Instead here he has caved and given them tax payer funded benefits to only keep some jobs in the US and this despite the fact that Carrier do work for the US military which surely could have been used as leverage.

Beyond this deal he has basically publically declared that if you threaten to move jobs out of the US the government will bend over backwards to give you money to stay rather then punish you for leaving.

Rjd2

Manic Moran wrote: »

This presentation by Mattis is about a half-hour long. Probably worth watching to get an idea of how he thinks, and how he views the US military of the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk7GkKmXOGg

I'l watch it later, plenty made of the nickname and some of the quotes, but if this is true and he has convinced Trump that torture isn't great, then he already has made a fine start.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/james-mattis-trump-torture-2016-11

26000 Elephants

eire4 wrote: »

Beyond this deal he has basically publically declared that if you threaten to move jobs out of the US the government will bend over backwards to give you money to stay rather then punish you for leaving.

Its a ballsy liberal move from Trump. Maybe there is more depth to him than we have previously thought.

aloyisious

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Possibly, but I doubt it.
Mattis seems to be a very intelligent and reasoned man, not quite the hot-head that nickname might imply.

Plus, the SecDef doesn't usually take the lead there, that would be the Secretary of State..... even if it is a military matter, though obviously his advise could well be very important.

Apparently this appointment has been very popular among current and former members of the armed forces. Seems a very different appointment compared to the outgoing SecDef Ash Carter, a physicist & public servant whose main 'achievement' is transgendered people in the military....... James Mattis is cut from a very different cloth.

Hmmm, that'd be even more interesting if the rumour of David Patraeus filling the Sec State post was correct. Colin Powell came from the Gen Staff previously to Sec State in the Bush Admin. That might make some foreign "observers" blink and give careful thought.

aloyisious

26000 Elephants wrote: »

Its a ballsy liberal move from Trump. Maybe there is more depth to him than we have previously thought.

I assume he'll make local state govt's, now that they're majorly republican, pony up state funding to go towards overall funding for the effort if he roll's out the plan nationwide.

Billy86

I thought Trump was going to bring the jobs home, not pay companies to move them abroad?