2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

oscarBravo

Amerika wrote: »

Many people here have problems understanding the IRS Form 1040EZ...

...and many people don't. Refusing to release tax returns because some people might have trouble understanding them is an excuse that struggles to achieve the level of pathetic.

I'm curious: of all the reasons Trump has given for refusing to release his tax returns, which of them does it suit you to believe?

Pro Hoc Vice

Amerika wrote: »

Many people here have problems understanding the IRS Form 1040EZ, which is the simplest of the three tax forms you can use to file your federal income taxes. Just saying...

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040ez.pdf

Well then I must agree USA is in decline if many Americans can not understand that form, just saying I assume you can understand it.

ECO_Mental

Amerika wrote: »

Guilty until proven innocent? The new America?

Listen I would love to see evidence that Trump hasn't bought land in Crimea and putting a golf course and resort on those lovely beaches they have there on the black sea. But until Trump shows us his Tax records of his business dealings we are going to have to assume he has. He loves Putin and has no issue with the annexation of Crimea

Once again can you prove otherwise and don't mention; But.. But.. Hillary

Pro Hoc Vice

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Listen I would love to see evidence that Trump hasn't bought land in Crimea and putting a golf course and resort on those lovely beaches they have there on the black sea. But until Trump shows us his Tax records of his business dealings we are going to have to assume he has. He loves Putin and has no issue with the annexation of Crimea

Once again can you prove otherwise and don't mention; But.. But.. Hillary

You mean the Crimea that according to Trump the Russians are not even in?

Amerika

oscarBravo wrote: »

Says the man who just posted an article from a publication run by Trump's son-in-law that says: The article repeatedly makes this claim of deliberate overcharging, but never once offers any evidence for it.

Sounds like this post should be in the media bias thread. Regardless, I saw plenty of evidence from a copy of a bill to interviews with the victims.

ECO_Mental

conditioned games wrote: »

I'm surprised you didn't also try to say Trump is been bank rolled by Chinese pottery masons and Brazilian jiu jitsu's and has a net worth of minus 5 billion. Now you are looking for someone to prove your made up accusations are false?

Trump should release his tax returns, however the message his son said was that the 12,000 page tax return would only detract from the political message Trump is saying which is true.

Listen prove me wrong, let Trump prove me wrong and show us his Tax returns I would love to be wrong about him in the process of building a new casino in those new fancy Islands the Chinese are building in the South China Sea, apparently he is going to get massive tax breaks from the Chinese if he builds a casino there. Easy to prove I'm wrong but we don't know????

Amerika

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040ez.pdf

Well then I must agree USA is in decline if many Americans can not understand that form, just saying I assume you can understand it.

I was a certified H&R Block tax preparer. I did it one year and gave it up because of the ignorance of people understand taxes. And they always blamed their problems on the preparer rather then themselves or the IRS.

But who could blame them...

Pro Hoc Vice

Amerika wrote: »

I was a certified H&R Block tax preparer. I did it one year and gave it up because of the ignorance of people understand taxes. And they always blamed their problems on the preparer rather then themselves or the IRS.

But who could blame them...

But what is difficult to understand in the form, im not American, I have no idea of US tax code but I fully understand the form, what in the form do you find difficult to understand?

Amerika

oscarBravo wrote: »

...and many people don't. Refusing to release tax returns because some people might have trouble understanding them is an excuse that struggles to achieve the level of pathetic.

I'm curious: of all the reasons Trump has given for refusing to release his tax returns, which of them does it suit you to believe?

I haven’t really listened to his excuses. It is not legally required for a person to release their taxes while running for president, as it is to destroy emails while under a Congressional subpoena. But I digress...

I wish he would release his taxes. Unfortunately nobody listens to me. I figure it is a calculated decision on his part as the people who most want his taxes released (Hillary Clinton, her surrogates in the media, and some here) would only be looking for things to misconstrue in order to hurt him. His reluctance to release his taxes apparently hasn’t hurt him in the polls. I figure if it does gain traction and it begins to hurt him in the polls, he will then reconsider.

Black Swan

Amerika wrote: »

I was a certified H&R Block tax preparer. I did it one year and gave it up because of the ignorance of people understand taxes. And they always blamed their problems on the preparer rather then themselves or the IRS.

So this is the excuse that is unique to Donald Trump, and not to decades of presidential candidates who all released several years of tax returns before general elections? Warren Buffet is also being audited by the IRS this year just like Donald Trump, and Buffet's net worth was several times what Trump claimed, and Buffet challenged Donald Trump to share both their tax returns before a public forum for voters to ask questions. I feel certain that someone like Becky Quick could easily review and explain Donald Trump's tax return to voters in a way that most would understand, so the lack of understanding excuse goes out the window. Methinks Trump has something to hide, and unlike all presidential candidates before him, he is afraid to release his returns before 8 November 2016. There is a chance that he paid very low taxes or zero taxes, which would not go well with many independent voters, especially those that voted for Sanders.

Amerika

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

But what is difficult to understand in the form, im not American, I have no idea of US tax code but I fully understand the form, what in the form do you find difficult to understand?

Good for you. Basically, many people don’t have a real understanding taxes in general, because one of the most problematic decisions on their part is which IRS Form they should be filing their federal taxes on... 1040EZ, 1040A or 1040. Often times they don’t have a good understanding of the basic rules and throw their hands up in surrender, fearing the wrath of the IRS, and go to a tax preparer to have their taxes done.

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

Guilty until proven innocent? The new America?

This is rich

Hillary Clinton? Jail her! Butcher! Crook!

Trump? Woah woah due process we don't have all the facts what about the Constitution etc.

Pro Hoc Vice

Amerika wrote: »

Good for you. Basically, many people don’t have a real understanding taxes in general, because one of the most problematic decisions on their part is which IRS Form they should be filing their federal taxes on... 1040EZ, 1040A or 1040. Often times they don’t gave a good understanding of the basic rules and throw their hands up in surrender, fearing the wrath of the IRS, and go to a tax preparer to have their taxes done.

you are explaining why many Americans maybe are backing Trump.

K-9

Amerika wrote: »

Dateline Nottingham... There's a new sheriff in town and she goes by the name of Hillary Rotten Clinton.

Robs from the poor and gives to herself. Clinton’s campaign is stealing from her poorest supporters by repeatedly overcharging them after they make a one-time small donation through her official campaign website. Never over $100 because then banks would then be obligated to investigate the fraud. A tactic often utilized by seedy pornography companies. And her campaign refuses to refund their wrongdoings when people complain.

Clinton’s New Colossus?

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
So that I may steal from them, galore.

Is there nothing so incorrigible, so corrupt, so wrong, that will get people to change their minds about this woman?


http://observer.com/2016/09/exclusive-hillary-clinton-campaign-systematically-overcharging-poorest-donors/

Whereas Trump is charging his own campaign top dollar for the use of his own facilities. NPR reported that Trump charged less to that DA in Florida he is friendly with, than his own election campaign that ordinary people are funding.

The Trump foundation also ”incorrectly” filed a $25,000 donation to that DA as a charitable deduction.

Plenty of dirt to throw at both candidate.

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

I haven’t really listened to his excuses. It is not legally required for a person to release their taxes while running for president, as it is to destroy emails while under a Congressional subpoena. But I digress...

I wish he would release his taxes. Unfortunately nobody listens to me. I figure it is a calculated decision on his part as the people who most want his taxes released (Hillary Clinton, her surrogates in the media, and some here) would only be looking for things to misconstrue in order to hurt him. His reluctance to release his taxes apparently hasn’t hurt him in the polls. I figure if it does gain traction and it begins to hurt him in the polls, he will then reconsider.

You realize trump did the same thing right?

https://americanbridgepac.org/destruction-of-evidence-trump-org-deleted-emails-sought-in-lawsuit/

You defend one but not the other?

K-9

Black Swan wrote: »

So this is the excuse that is unique to Donald Trump, and not to decades of presidential candidates who all released several years of tax returns before general elections? Warren Buffet is also being audited by the IRS this year just like Donald Trump, and Buffet's net worth was several times what Trump claimed, and Buffet challenged Donald Trump to share both their tax returns before a public forum for voters to ask questions. I feel certain that someone like Becky Quick could easily review and explain Donald Trump's tax return to voters in a way that most would understand, so the lack of understanding excuse goes out the window. Methinks Trump has something to hide, and unlike all presidential candidates before him, he is afraid to release his returns before 8 November 2016. There is a chance that he paid very low taxes or zero taxes, which would not go well with many independent voters, especially those that voted for Sanders.

Every single candidate has released their returns for decades, even Nixon.

Why are people giving him a pass in a long established practice for US Presidents?

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

This is rich

Hillary Clinton? Jail her! Butcher! Crook!

Trump? Woah woah due process we don't have all the facts what about the Constitution etc.

Oh, I’m confident you will lift my arguments and words at some point in time to support your own positions. They’re pretty good, aren’t they?

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

Oh, I’m confident you will lift my arguments and words at some point in time to support your own positions. They’re pretty good, aren’t they?

Not sure when; my candidate was already rigged out of the race

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/officials-investigating-why-126000-voters-were-purged-from-ny-rolls/

Black Swan

K-9 wrote: »

Every single candidate has released their returns for decades, even Nixon.

And Nixon was being audited by the IRS when he released his returns, so the Trump excuse is nonsense just like Warren Buffett claims.

K-9 wrote: »

Why are people giving him a pass in a long established practice for US Presidents?

Republican Speaker of the House Paul Ryan just hours ago said that he was releasing his tax returns and Donald Trump should do the same. But Trump will not before 8 November 2016, because of what they will reveal. Why are Trump supporters not demanding that Trump release his, just like all presidential candidates for decades have? Because most of his supporters are what Eric Hoffer called "True Believers," and they accept just about anything that comes out of Trump's MOUTH without any documentation to substantiate his claims.

Overheal

Asked a family supporter about Trump and the string of lies. The response was essentially that "oh it's all for show. Really he's [self imagined image of a normal human]"

Mind boggling really. Serious doublethink between being condition to despise Hillary and only having one really distasteful alternative 'cos third parties are a vote for Hillary etc.

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

Not sure when; my candidate was already rigged out of the race

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/officials-investigating-why-126000-voters-were-purged-from-ny-rolls/

The person I voted for in the GOP primary is also gone. But after viewing his disrespectful display at the National Convention, I’m now glad he didn’t win.

I've read that the Democratic Party’s email leaks showed how that state data swapping program enabled the party to commit automated voter fraud on a massive scale, but I didn't really understand it.

Overheal

Oh you mean Cruz for all his other faults, had a conscience?

B0jangles

Watching the Trump speech and so far he's using it as an opportunity to boast about and advertise for his new hotel.

So presidential.

Pro Hoc Vice

B0jangles wrote: »

Watching the Trump speech and so far he's using it as an opportunity to boast about and advertise for his new hotel.

So presidential.

The best hotel in the world!

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

Asked a family supporter about Trump and the string of lies. The response was essentially that "oh it's all for show. Really he's [self imagined image of a normal human]"

Mind boggling really. Serious doublethink between being condition to despise Hillary and only having one really distasteful alternative 'cos third parties are a vote for Hillary etc.

I usually ask people, who are willing to talk about politics, what both candidates hope to accomplish. Shockingly, I’ve found most know little about current politics. But they do seem to have the basics for Trump, in that he wants to build a wall and stop illegal immigration, get better trade deals and bring jobs back to America. But nobody seems to be able to list what Hillary wants to accomplish. The best I get is she hates Trump.

Amerika

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

The best hotel in the world!

I've been in Trump Tower in NYC... and it was. If they new one is better, then that's amazing.

Pro Hoc Vice

Amerika wrote: »

I usually ask people, who are willing to talk about politics, what both candidates hope to accomplish. Shockingly, I’ve found most know little about current politics. But they do seem to have the basics for Trump, in that he wants to build a wall and stop illegal immigration, get better trade deals and bring jobs back to America. But nobody seems to be able to list what Hillary wants to accomplish. The best I get is she hates Trump.

The people you know can't fill in a simple form or look up policies https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

I usually ask people, who are willing to talk about politics, what both candidates hope to accomplish. Shockingly, I’ve found most know little about current politics. But they do seem to have the basics for Trump, in that he wants to build a wall and stop illegal immigration, get better trade deals and bring jobs back to America. But nobody seems to be able to list what Hillary wants to accomplish. The best I get is she hates Trump.

All of which are baseless proposals. The economics of a wall, trade deals and deportation are all well documented. Trump won't stop the TPP or renegotiate anything and he owes millions of dollars to the Chinese in addition to other business investments around the globe. You trust him to shoot himself in the foot?

Clintons policies are pretty well known. Furthering the ACA and cracking down on profiteering; gun reforms incl loophole closure; va reform etc and for the most part her platform doesn't vary wildly from the Obama administration.

But again, you're spouting off conjecture.

Pro Hoc Vice

The funny the the NRA won't like they can't bring a gun into his new hotel in DC as it's a federal building.

Black Swan

Amerika wrote: »

I've been in Trump Tower in NYC... and it was. If they new one is better, then that's amazing.

Was Trump Tower as amazing as Trump University, which was headquartered in Trump Tower? Given that Trump has zero experience in governance, US diplomacy, and CIC, he claims that his business experience gives him the background he needs to be president. If so, what does Trump University say about Trump's business background?

Overheal

I'm sure his campaign HQ will migrate so he can charge himself more $$

B0jangles

I was in Trump Tower in NYC - the whole lobby looks like its made from slabs of frozen mince, its pretty nasty.

Pro Hoc Vice

Overheal wrote: »

I'm sure his campaign HQ will migrate so he can charge himself more $$

It's fine he will just move the White House in to DC hotel and charge the Federal Gov rent.

Overheal

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

It's fine he will just move the White House in to DC hotel and charge the Federal Gov rent.

Oh man I never even seen thought about this: people flipped their collective $hit when Obama flies the plane. Can you imagine the bill Trump will rack up in office of elected? Fughettaboutit

Black Swan

B0jangles wrote: »

I was in Trump Tower in NYC - the whole lobby looks like its made from slabs of frozen mince, its pretty nasty.

Was this the same Trump Tower that hired and used about 150 illegal Polish construction workers to help build it? Polish illegals that were paid below minimum wage? And now the same Donald Trump presidential candidate wants to deport millions of illegal workers, pretending that he did not profit from using them to build Trump Tower?

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

All of which are baseless proposals. The economics of a wall, trade deals and deportation are all well documented. Trump won't stop the TPP or renegotiate anything and he owes millions of dollars to the Chinese in addition to other business investments around the globe. You trust him to shoot himself in the foot?

Clintons policies are pretty well known. Furthering the ACA and cracking down on profiteering; gun reforms incl loophole closure; va reform etc and for the most part her platform doesn't vary wildly from the Obama administration.

But again, you're spouting off conjecture.

Come on... you know none of that really matters. Yeah, it’s great sport for people like us to talk about things like policies, agendas, traditions, and what can and can’t be done by a POTUS. I think you know as well as me that a large number of the electorate don’t know much of the two candidates more than the sound bites they see on social media. And when they go into the voting booth they will vote with their hearts rather than their heads. Democrats will vote overwhelmingly for Clinton and Republicans for Trump. The fight is for the Independents and those on the fence. I believe Trump might win now because people will remember the few things they've heard from Trump and that he favorably addresses many of their top concerns... and they know little about what Hillary wants to do, and that she is corrupt and a liar.

B0jangles

So he repeats the lie about who started the whole birther crap and finally announces that he believes Pres. Obama was born in America, then runs off.

What a clown.

What an embarassment.

Amerika

Black Swan wrote: »

Was Trump Tower as amazing as Trump University...

More so.

B0jangles

Black Swan wrote: »

Was this the same Trump Tower that hired and used about 150 illegal Polish construction workers to help build it? Polish illegals that were paid below minimum wage? And now the same Donald Trump presidential candidate wants to deport millions of illegal workers, pretending that he did not profit from using them to build Trump Tower?

Yes, that's the place!

And no, I did not stay there, just popped in to see if it was a gaudy as I'd heard.

(It's actually gaudier)

Pro Hoc Vice

B0jangles wrote: »

So he repeats the lie about who started the whole birther crap and finally announces that he believes Pres. Obama was born in America, then runs off.

What a clown.

What an embarassment.

So he is admitting that he got the birther thing wrong for years. But but trump does not get things wrong he perfect so perfect and knows everything.

Pro Hoc Vice

Overheal wrote: »

Oh man I never even seen thought about this: people flipped their collective $hit when Obama flies the plane. Can you imagine the bill Trump will rack up in office of elected? Fughettaboutit

He will retire the 2 747 and pay his own company to provide Air Force Trump.

B0jangles

He's blatantly just swapping one massively obvious lie for another - why is he being let get away with this?

RobertKK

Trump has said the Clinton campaign in 2008 started the birther issue with Obama and that he has now finished it by saying Obama was born in the United States, period.

Apparently it was Clinton supporters who started it in 2008, not the Clinton campaign.

Pro Hoc Vice

B0jangles wrote: »

He's blatantly just swapping one massively obvious lie for another - why is he being let get away with this?

Because if you point out any errors you are picking on Trump and his supporters.

B0jangles

RobertKK wrote: »

Trump has said the Clinton campaign in 2008 started the birther issue with Obama and that he has now finished it by saying Obama was born in the United States, period.

Apparently it was Clinton supporters who started it in 2008, not the Clinton campaign.

So he rolled back on one lie and is trying to gain traction with a new one - he specifically blamed Hillary Clinton for starting the Birther nonsense.

He also spent more time advertizing his new hotel than he spent acknowledging that a huge conspiracy theory he's spent the last 8 years pushing was false.

B0jangles

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Because if you point out any errors you are picking on Trump and his supporters.

It is absolutely mindboggling to see just how much leeway Trump is given with regards to...pretty much everything at this point. He's blatantly using the campaign as a business opportunity and apparently his supporters are OK with that

Pro Hoc Vice

B0jangles wrote: »

It is absolutely mindboggling to see just how much leeway Trump is given with regards to...pretty much everything at this point.

He had a stage full of military wait from him to promote his own hotel. I am wishing for the first time the US elects him. If the generals are that stupid no wonder they can't win a war.

Black Swan

RobertKK wrote: »

Trump has said the Clinton campaign in 2008 started the birther issue with Obama and that he has now finished it by saying Obama was born in the United States, period.

Apparently it was Clinton supporters who started it in 2008, not the Clinton campaign.

Donald Trump: "I have people that have been studying [Obama's birth certificate] and they cannot believe what they're finding... I would like to have him show his birth certificate, and can I be honest with you, I hope he can. Because if he can't, if he can't, if he wasn't born in this country, which is a real possibility…then he has pulled one of the great cons in the history of politics."

"I have people," Donald Trump claimed, that were "studying" Obama's birth.

Pro Hoc Vice

Black Swan wrote: »

Donald Trump: "I have people that have been studying [Obama's birth certificate] and they cannot believe what they're finding... I would like to have him show his birth certificate, and can I be honest with you, I hope he can. Because if he can't, if he can't, if he wasn't born in this country, which is a real possibility…then he has pulled one of the great cons in the history of politics."

"I have people," Donald Trump claimed, that were "studying" Obama's birth.

But but Trump is not a liar that Clinton, o I am so confused now. You mean Trump is either stupid or a liar.

B0jangles

Check out the reports from the NYTimes and NYPost about this event:

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/776811245974515712/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

NYT completely leaves out the bit where Trump lied about Clinton starting the birther crap - why?

nm, NYT story updated with missing info added.

Hahaha, the press pool is refusing to do a free ad for Trump's hotel

https://twitter.com/Hadas_Gold/status/776811426082091008?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw