2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

Amerika

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

And you as an American know many of the above list requires the consent of Congress perfect example is the appointment of Supreme Court Justices. In a blatant partisan move the Republicans are refusing to vet The Presidents nomination.

Of course some requires consent of Congress. As example Treaties are negotiated by the President, but it is Congress that has to make them law. But try telling that to Obama.

And who says Republicans are refusing to vet the SCOTUS nomination. I'd say they're just dragging their feet.

What do you mean "Convene, or dismiss, congress at the President’s leisure."

https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/olc/opinions/1989/07/31/op-olc-v013-p0245.pdf

You also know the power of Veto is limited, either you know or like Trump you never read the Constitution.

Sure I know and so does he. A veto can be overridden by 2/3 votes of both the House and Senate. But I'm not going to describe everything I note to the minutia level.

Pro Hoc Vice

Amerika wrote: »

Of course some requires consent of Congress. As example Treaties are negotiated by the President, but it is Congress that has to make them law. But try telling that to Obama.

And who says Republicans are refusing to vet the SCOTUS nomination. I'd say they're just dragging their feet.


https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/olc/opinions/1989/07/31/op-olc-v013-p0245.pdf


Sure I know and so does he. A veto can be overridden by 2/3 votes of both the House and Senate. But I'm not going to describe everything I note to the minutia level.

It's not going into minute detail it's called being honest.

Suryavarman

Brian? wrote: »

When is the first debate?

Wednesday the 26th

Suryavarman

Below is a list of outrageous statements and outright lies Trump has said today alone:



It's hard not to feel sorry for people that think this man is fit to be POTUS.

Amerika

Suryavarman wrote: »

Below is a list of outrageous statements and outright lies Trump has said today alone:



It's hard not to feel sorry for people that think this man is fit to be POTUS.

I'll see your list, and raise you this list of Hillary's lies...
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/statements/byruling/false/

K-9

Amerika wrote: »

And I think it’s interesting that when I complained about Obama’s overreach of power just about everyone here jumped on me about the President’s limitation of powers. That the role of Obama was extremely limited in scope. I disagreed and said Obama exceeded his authority and created laws which were the job of Congress.

Now everyone fears Trump. Why? If the argument was a President’s authority was so limited, why the concern over Trump? Actually, I believe it is because deep down everyone here knew I was right. And Obama’s overreach of powers has set a nasty prescient that the next President will continue, especially if he belongs to the same party that controls Congress.

And if that is the case, is it apropos for me at this time to say I told you so?

As for the listed powers of the President, this is what the US Congress states…

• Command the military, including Army, Navy, and National Guard.
• Grant clemency, pardons, and other reprieve for offenses against the United States.
• Handle all foreign affairs, including negotiating treaties.
• Appoint ambassadors, justices, public ministers, councils, and executive officers.
• Convene, or dismiss, congress at the President’s leisure.
• Oversee the execution of the laws.
• Sign bills, return them to congress with suggested changes, or veto them.
• Recommend legislature and measures to Congress.
• Has Executive Power as needed in order to fulfill the above duties.

A Republican President plus a Republican controlled Congress and Senate is more powerful than...

It's basic common sense.

Pro Hoc Vice

Amerika wrote: »

I'll see your list, and raise you this list of Hillary's lies...
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/statements/byruling/false/

All her false statements as against all of Trumps in one day only! You seem to like ignoring the important bit of a posters statements.

Suryavarman

Amerika wrote: »

I'll see your list, and raise you this list of Hillary's lies...
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/statements/byruling/false/

A dreadful response, even by your low standards. Trump has broken records for telling lies during this campaign. Incredibly, Trump told more lies today than Clinton has all year according to your link. Trump is such a pathetic candidate. It must be getting embarrassing having to make excuses for him all the time is it?

Pro Hoc Vice

Amerika wrote: »

I'll see your list, and raise you this list of Hillary's lies...
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/statements/byruling/false/

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/


http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/

Look at the pants on fire for both.

Pro Hoc Vice

Suryavarman wrote: »

A dreadful response, even by your low standards. Trump has broken records for telling lies during this campaign. Incredibly, Trump told more lies today than Clinton has all year according to your link. Trump is such a pathetic candidate. It must be getting embarrassing having to make excuses for him all the time is it?

For the first time in history an electorate will know the person they elect is a total liar. When Trump decides to do anything in his term he can just say what did you expect in a liar. He is immune from any decision.

KingBrian2

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

All her false statements as against all of Trumps in one day only! You seem to like ignoring the important bit of a posters statements.

Trump speaks a lot more about the economy and the well being of Americans. The only people he is trashing are the politicians who have contributed to frequent gvt shutdowns. He said very kind remarks about senator Sanders who he disagrees with ideologically. He also made up with a number of GOP politicians like Chris Christie & Giuliani after the campaigns were over. He can move from being an adversary to becoming an ally. Plenty of Republicans, Democrats & Libertarians would back Trump after assuming the Presidency.

oscarBravo

Amerika wrote: »

I'll see your list, and raise you this list of Hillary's lies...
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/statements/byruling/false/

I'll see your list, and raise you Trump's.

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/

Oh look, it's more than twice as long.

Face it: Trump is objectively less honest than Clinton.

oscarBravo

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The only people he is trashing are the politicians who have contributed to frequent gvt shutdowns.

Really?

KingBrian2

oscarBravo wrote: »

Really?

Is he not allowed to express his views on a wide variety of issues! The libel laws in America are not the same as Europe.

The_Mac

As much as I absolutely despise many Sanders supporters, by Jesus this election would be a lot easier if he had got the nomination.

Pro Hoc Vice

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Trump speaks a lot more about the economy and the well being of Americans. The only people he is trashing are the politicians who have contributed to frequent gvt shutdowns. He said very kind remarks about senator Sanders who he disagrees with ideologically. He also made up with a number of GOP politicians like Chris Christie & Giuliani after the campaigns were over. He can move from being an adversary to becoming an ally. Plenty of Republicans, Democrats & Libertarians would back Trump after assuming the Presidency.

What about the Pastor in Flint. I thought it was American manners not to bitch a host who invited you in. But then again Trump wants to make America great again like the old days. When the gays would be bashed, women knew their place the blacks did not get all uppity, the military did not have women, (am i mistaken, not one of the people on the stage today was a women, does their bravery stand for anything, guess not when America is great again) FFS we all now what they mean by make America great again No Blacks and Women. If that's what people want they can vote for it but don't expect people to just sit and not take notice. Trump is fine to be fair its the people who support what they "think" he stands for that i hope there is a space in hell for. And remember when he backtracks on every promise that people think he made you have been warned. A man who was pro choice now pro life, pro Clinton now ant Clinton, anti Obama now pro Obama. You have been warned.

Suryavarman

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Is he not allowed to express his views on a wide variety of issues! The libel laws in America are not the same as Europe.

You said he is only thrashing politicians, Oscarbravo has shown that is clearly not the case. Your response is completely irrelevant to what is being discussed.

Pro Hoc Vice

Suryavarman wrote: »

You said he is only thrashing politicians, Oscarbravo has shown that is clearly not the case. Your response is completely irrelevant to what is being discussed.

Welcome to the twilight zone. Where up is down, right is wrong, lies are truth and a comb over means a person is not bald.

marienbad

Amerika wrote: »

I'll see your list, and raise you this list of Hillary's lies...
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/statements/byruling/false/

Is that the best you can co Amerika ? you give a list going back to 2007 versus a list of gaffes and lies in one day ?

KingBrian2

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

What about the Pastor in Flint. I thought it was American manners not to bitch a host who invited you in. But then again Trump wants to make America great again like the old days. When the gays would be bashed, women knew their place the blacks did not get all uppity, the military did not have women, (am i mistaken, not one of the people on the stage today was a women, does their bravery stand for anything, guess not when America is great again) FFS we all now what they mean by make America great again No Blacks and Women. If that's what people want they can vote for it but don't expect people to just sit and not take notice. Trump is fine to be fair its the people who support what they "think" he stands for that i hope there is a space in hell for. And remember when he backtracks on every promise that people think he made you have been warned. A man who was pro choice now pro life, pro Clinton now ant Clinton, anti Obama now pro Obama. You have been warned.

The GOP were called the war party and now with Trump that title is no longer true. He has made it abundantly clear he would not get involved in foreign ventures. His emphasis throughout the election has been on the economy and the poor state it is in. All very relevant to all Americans from all backgrounds.

K-9

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The GOP were called the war party and now with Trump that title is no longer true. He has made it abundantly clear he would not get involved in foreign ventures. His emphasis throughout the election has been on the economy and the poor state it is in. All very relevant to all Americans from all backgrounds.

So going to war to with ISIS won't be a foreign venture?

Pro Hoc Vice

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The GOP were called the war party and now with Trump that title is no longer true. He has made it abundantly clear he would not get involved in foreign ventures. His emphasis throughout the election has been on the economy and the poor state it is in. All very relevant to all Americans from all backgrounds.

He also said he wanted to bomb the **** out of ISIS. How will he do so with out getting involved in foreign ventures.

KingBrian2

K-9 wrote: »

So going to war to with ISIS won't be a foreign venture?

That is not a foreign venture. ISIS use the internet and on the agenda for good old Trump is cybersecurity.:)

InTheTrees

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The GOP were called the war party and now with Trump that title is no longer true. He has made it abundantly clear he would not get involved in foreign ventures.

Rubbish. Absolute nonsense. He hasn't said that at all.

He said he was going to go bomb terrorists family's. He said he was smarter than " the generals". He said he'd go after Isis and destroy them.

Pro Hoc Vice

KingBrian2 wrote: »

That is not a foreign venture. ISIS use the internet and on the agenda for good old Trump is cybersecurity.

So you are saying it's virtual bombs, so he is going to protect America from ISIS with a good firewall?

InTheTrees

KingBrian2 wrote: »

That is not a foreign venture. ISIS use the internet and on the agenda for good old Trump is cybersecurity.:)

What? Isis aren't "foreign"? Because they use the internet?

Baffling.

This is getting into the twilight zone.

K-9

KingBrian2 wrote: »

That is not a foreign venture. ISIS use the internet and on the agenda for good old Trump is cybersecurity.:)

I was looking for a serious answer, not a game of Call of Duty or something.

Anything at all to back it up?

Overheal

KingBrian2 wrote: »

That is not a foreign venture. ISIS use the internet and on the agenda for good old Trump is cybersecurity.:)

They also use chemical weapons and bomb vests.

You're just being ridiculous now

KingBrian2

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

So you are saying it's virtual bombs, so he is going to protect America from ISIS with a good firewall?

He would follow Obama's policy on ISIS and take it further to include all Islamist terrorist organization. No more pansying about with the likes of Saudi Arabia or Pakistan who I have no respect for.

Overheal

KingBrian2 wrote: »

He would follow Obama's policy on ISIS and take it further to include all Islamist terrorist organization. No more pansying about with the likes of Saudi Arabia or Pakistan who I have no respect for.

" by using the Internet "

Pro Hoc Vice

KingBrian2 wrote: »

He would follow Obama's policy on ISIS and take it further to include all Islamist terrorist organization. No more pansying about with the likes of Saudi Arabia or Pakistan who I have no respect for.

So to clarify he will use real bombs in a real country other than America pls he will use the internet. So bombs+ or if Apple is in charge "war s plus"

K-9

KingBrian2 wrote: »

He would follow Obama's policy on ISIS and take it further to include all Islamist terrorist organization. No more pansying about with the likes of Saudi Arabia or Pakistan who I have no respect for.

So it would be a foreign venture then, unlike what you said.

KingBrian2

K-9 wrote: »

So it would be a foreign venture then, unlike what you said.

How would it be a foreign venture the US all ready are bombing these regions. ISIS is not confined to one region of the world. The preachers are throughout the Saudi funded Mosques. Dismantling them would not lead to a foreign war.

Pro Hoc Vice

KingBrian2 wrote: »

How would it be a foreign venture the US all ready are bombing these regions. ISIS is not confined to one region of the world. The preachers are throughout the Saudi funded Mosques. Dismantling them would not lead to a foreign war.

So you are saying Trump will not go into any new foreign ventures? But any ones ongoing are ok?

Overheal

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

So you are saying Trump will not go into any new foreign ventures? But any ones ongoing are ok?

Except that we will expand the number of terrorist targets we are after. But it is somehow not considered a new venture

This entire ridiculous argument is clutching at every straw on the way down

InTheTrees

KingBrian2 wrote: »

How would it be a foreign venture the US all ready are bombing these regions. ISIS is not confined to one region of the world.

Um. OK.

You understand what the word foreign means right? It seems like you may not...

InTheTrees

Overheal wrote: »

Except that we will expand the number of terrorist targets we are after. But it is somehow not considered a new venture

This entire ridiculous argument is clutching at every straw on the way down

And the terrorists aren't foreign because they're using the internet and the US is already bombing them so we just need cyber security.

Pro Hoc Vice

InTheTrees wrote: »

And the terrorists aren't foreign because they're using the internet and the US is already bombing them so we just need cyber security.

Now I get it sure America invented the internet so the internet is America so that's it all explained now then.

alastair

Amerika wrote: »

I've been in Trump Tower in NYC... and it was. If they new one is better, then that's amazing.

There is no hotel in Trump Tower.

KingBrian2

InTheTrees wrote: »

And the terrorists aren't foreign because they're using the internet and the US is already bombing them so we just need cyber security.

The Sharia preachers are in the United States of America as they are in western Europe. If America cannot act against terrorist within its own borders than it has no business bullying other Nations to combat terrorism in theirs. Under the Obama administration their was a reluctance to classify Al Nusra as a terrorist outfit. It was also inconvenient for the Americans to call out terrorists because they have dealings with such organizations that carry out multiple acts of violence around the world.

InTheTrees

KingBrian2 wrote: »

It was also inconvenient for the Americans to call out terrorists because they have dealings with such organizations that carry out multiple acts of violence around the world.

Now you've veered off on a tangent about god knows what.

We were discussing why you think trump doesn't have to get involved in foreign wars because the terrorists use the internet.

gosplan

This week Trump said his plan was going to create 25 million new jobs in a country with 17 million unemployed.

Idiots!

Akrasia

gosplan wrote: »

This week Trump said his plan was going to create 25 million new jobs in a country with 17 million unemployed.

Idiots!

but no immigrants allowed...

Akrasia

Trump is just trolling people now. He gave a speech yesterday where he said that because clinton is so against guns, her security should disarm themselves, and then wait 'and see what happens to her', 'very dangerous'
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37394883

I would say that this is a statement deliberately calculated to piss off liberals by straw manning them while also egging on right wing gun rights activists to have a go at assassinating her, but this is Trump, and he doesn't calculate these things, he just blurts things out without any self awareness according to how many cheers he thinks it will get.

gosplan

Akrasia wrote: »

but no immigrants allowed...

Like I said last week, I get that people might not want Hillary but anyone arguing that Trump makes any sense is either trolling or not very intelligent.

Psychedelic

Former Haitian President speaking about Clinton, Denis O'Brien, Digicel, Haiti earthquake, bribery and corruption:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phKO2T2pMjM

alastair

Psychedelic wrote: »

Former Haitian President speaking about Clinton, Denis O'Brien, Digicel, Haiti earthquake, bribery and corruption:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phKO2T2pMjM

Bernard Sansaricq. He's not a former Haitian President. He's a former Haitian senator, and was president of that group of 30 odd people. He's also a reactionary nutjob, and a failed Republican candidate in Florida. Here's his response to a 2010 questionare from a tea party group:

Q: Should we end all government health programs, because they are unconstitutional?

A: YES! Government has no business being in health care. This is for communist countries like Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela, etc...

Q: Should the liberal media be prevented from criticizing Sarah Palin unfairly?

A: YES! Sarah is a great leader and should be respected by all.

Q: Should every school day begin with a Christian prayer to God?

A: YES! We have to put prayers back in our schools.

Q: Should public school students be taught that the Book of Genesis explains how God created the world?

A: YES! A must to have better citizens that will respect the laws in our books and the laws of God.

Q: Is liberalism a form of fascism?

A: YES! Liberalism is fascism.

Q: Was Barack Hussein Obama born outside the United States?

A: YES! He was born in Kenya.

Q: Is Barack Hussein Obama a Muslim?

A: YES! No doubt at all about that.

Q: Is Barack Hussein Obama a Communist or a Fascist?

A: BOTH! If we allow him, he will turn this country into a socialist country and will change our constitution.

Q: Is Barack Hussein Obama a racist?

A: YES! Definitely

So, I wouldn't be entirely confident he's a reliable witness on pretty much anything Clinton related.

RobertKK

oscarBravo wrote: »

Fair enough, but it's hard to see how that justifies criticising one candidate for something that the other candidate exemplifies more so. For example: you've criticised the Clinton Foundation, but are silent about the fact that the Trump Foundation spent tens of thousands of dollars buying a portrait of Donald Trump for Donald Trump. Why is that?

I don't think Clinton will be a great president, but I'm fairly certain that Trump would be an absolutely catastrophic one. Most of the support for him as a candidate seems to be on the basis that he might not be as big a farce as a president as he was as a candidate, which strikes me as some dangerously wishful thinking.

Because Trump was not getting $25 million from the Saudis and then claiming to be for women's rights when taking money from a country where men actually own the women, then after receiving said money to foundation she as SoS signed off on a record arms deal of around $29 billion where planes and weapons were used in a war against Yemen.
Then the Clintons are close to Paul Kagame of Rwanda where they spend a lot of the foundation money on good work, as Bill feels guilty for sleeping on the job during the genocide.
Kagame is accused of war crimes, for the thousands of people killed since the genocide. Bill calls this person a brilliant man, and the Clintons are close to him.

For me misuse by the Trump foundation of money on a painting is better than supporting Saudi extremists where they believe a woman needs a man's permission to do anything, or supporting a president in Rwanda accused of killing thousands of people and who has decided he wants to be president for life.

The blindness of the Clintons to the killing of people and the double speak of being for women's rights when she makes out she is for them, shows power for the Clintons comes before what is right.

How can you say you are for women's tights and take money for your foundation from Saudi Arabia?
How can the Clintons support Kagame when he can't visit a lot of countries as he is wanted for war crimes?

I would prefer if their foundation was caught up in a controversy over a printing and misuse of money than one that is associated with oppression of women's and support of an accused war criminal.

Pro Hoc Vice

RobertKK wrote: »

Because Trump was not getting $25 million from the Saudis and then claiming to be for women's rights when taking money from a country where men actually own the women, then after receiving said money to foundation she as SoS signed off on a record arms deal of around $29 billion where planes and weapons were used in a war against Yemen.
Then the Clintons are close to Paul Kagame of Rwanda where they spend a lot of the foundation money on good work, as Bill feels guilty for sleeping on the job during the genocide.
Kagame is accused of war crimes, for the thousands of people killed since the genocide. Bill calls this person a brilliant man, and the Clintons are close to him.

For me misuse by the Trump foundation of money on a painting is better than supporting Saudi extremists where they believe a woman needs a man's permission to do anything, or supporting a president in Rwanda accused of killing thousands of people and who has decided he wants to be president for life.

The blindness of the Clintons to the killing of people and the double speak of being for women's rights when she makes out she is for them, shows power for the Clintons comes before what is right.

How can you say you are for women's tights and take money for your foundation from Saudi Arabia?
How can the Clintons support Kagame when he can't visit a lot of countries as he is wanted for war crimes?

I would prefer if their foundation was caught up in a controversy over a printing and misuse of money than one that is associated with oppression of women's and support of an accused war criminal.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/exclusive-donald-trump-made-millions-saudi-government-article-1.2777211

RobertKK

gosplan wrote: »

This week Trump said his plan was going to create 25 million new jobs in a country with 17 million unemployed.

Idiots!

US population is growing rapidly.

Currently about 317 million people.
By mid century estimated to be over 400 million in the US.