2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

TheDoctor

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Overheal wrote: »

That's the dirty side of politics. Everyone's history is on the playing board. The electorate has a right to know what the likely most public figure on the planet really is.

Yea and the '' true Trump '' holds back and refuses to sink to her level, maybe the gloves are off now finally . Maybe he'll come out swinging now .

Yes Trump has had the moral high ground throughout this election.......

K-9

Ah here, if stuff came out about Hillary I doubt there'd be too many concerns about journalistic standards. Trump is the guy that quotes the National Enquirer after all.

BorneTobyWilde

I'm sure Trump has tapes of Hilary and Bill, or wishes he had recorded them when he was
in their circles . I'm sure he has stories, only stories though.

TheDoctor

Yes his stories of Bill would be very relevant...

If this was 1992 or 1996

Billy86

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Yea and the '' true Trump '' holds back and refuses to sink to her level, maybe the gloves are off now finally . Maybe he'll come out swinging now .

Sure, if he wants to risk going below 100 of the 538 electoral college votes. He's basically got nothing left to hit Clinton with, that can't be thrown back at him twice as hard.

I'm really not sure how Trump fans think this is a good strategy for presidency? We're not in the GOP primary 'safe space' anymore.

Billy86

TheDoctor wrote: »

Yes his stories of Bill would be very relevant...

If this was 1992 or 1996

And if he weren't on camera bragging about sexually assaulting women. And if he hadn't been up in the courts on a number of occasions on rape charges himself, before. And if he wasn't currently standing accused of raping a child and threatening to murder her.

Like I said, anything he thinks he has left to throw at Clinton at this point can be thrown back at him many times harder. He's got nothing, and he's got no policy nor substance to take it in another direction.

TheDoctor

Sunday night really is going to be carnage

Manach

Well it looks that Clinton (at least via wikileaks) is giving Trump an indirect hand in his time of need:

“Hillary Clinton’s advisers appear to have emailed to each other partial transcripts of her closed-door paid speeches and highlighted the most potentially damaging portions, according to a message exchange posted by Wikileaks on Friday.
The email quotes Clinton as describing to a Goldman Sachs-Black Rock event in 2014 her distance from middle-class Americans.”

- http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/john-podesta-wikileaks-hacked-emails-229304

Overheal

Manach wrote: »

Well it looks that Clinton (at least via wikileaks) is giving Trump an indirect hand in his time of need:

“Hillary Clinton’s advisers appear to have emailed to each other partial transcripts of her closed-door paid speeches and highlighted the most potentially damaging portions, according to a message exchange posted by Wikileaks on Friday.
The email quotes Clinton as describing to a Goldman Sachs-Black Rock event in 2014 her distance from middle-class Americans.”

- http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/john-podesta-wikileaks-hacked-emails-229304

Hardly her "Grab 'em by the pussy" sound bytes. I doubt these will gain traction.

Quin_Dub

Russia doing their bit for Trump as well..

Russia makes formal complaint to the UN over speech criticising Trump

Vitaly Churkin, Russia’s ambassador to the United Nations, issued a verbal “demarche” to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon in a private meeting on Sept 13, according to three diplomats.

It has revived claims Moscow is interfering in the US presidential election.
Mr Churkin angrily protested at two speeches by Zeid Ra’ad Al Hussein, the UN commissioner on human rights, that denounced “demagogues” and specifically targeted Mr Trump and several populist leaders in Europe.

A senior UN diplomat said Mr Churkin specifically “condemned the fact that Zeid mentioned Trump”.

Itssoeasy

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

TheDoctor wrote: »

Ted Cruz time to shine!

How does it work if Trump pulled out ? Pence takes over? Or Cruz ?

I think fhe RNC would need to call an emergency convention to elect a new presidential candidate but there's not long left.

Overheal

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I think fhe RNC would need to call an emergency convention to elect a new presidential candidate but there's not long left.

It would basically be handing the election over on a platter and might negatively impact congressional races. They won't do it.

Itssoeasy

TheDoctor wrote: »

Sunday night really is going to be carnage

Good. I'm sorry but how of an asshole and clearly unfit for the office does trump have to show before the GOP leadership say "**** this for a game of toy shoulders" ?

Itssoeasy

Overheal wrote: »

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I think fhe RNC would need to call an emergency convention to elect a new presidential candidate but there's not long left.

It would basically be handing the election over on a platter and might negatively impact congressional races. They won't do it.

Well the time is an issue. Well trump is negatively impacting congressional races as of now.

Quin_Dub

The comments attributed to various Trump/GOP campaign staff on hearing the story are pretty grim..

"No woman should ever be described in these terms or talked about in this manner. Ever," Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus said in a brief statement.

"This should have never happened. I wish it had never happened. I think I know that men talk this way sometimes, but it's nothing I would ever want to hear or condone or approve of," the adviser said. "My reaction is -- it's appalling. It's just flat out appalling."
The adviser also said Trump's apology does not go far enough.
"Doing anything other than to say it was a grievous error and he apologizes would be a mistake," the adviser said. "I would take it a step further and own to the words as being offensive -- not 'if.'"

The adviser, clearly exasperated, added: "Another day in Trump world ... I hate it."

Billy86

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Russia doing their bit for Trump as well..

Russia makes formal complaint to the UN over speech criticising Trump

Sure it's been the worst kept secret in the world for several months now, so with the White House calling them to task on the hack they might as well just come out and declare.

Overheal

Quin_Dub wrote: »

The comments attributed to various Trump/GOP campaign staff on hearing the story are pretty grim..

I take exception with people trying to defend him, "oh men talk like this"

No, men might say "wow she's a hot so and so. I'd love to do this or that to her."

What they don't do is say 'she was married. I went for her like a bitch. I'm famous I can grab them by the pussy and just start kissing them' etc etc.

Big difference between sleazing (which is still bad) and bragging about sexual assault. Oh, and he has rape charges against him in other news.

Karma seems to have really come back to haunt him for whining about a "defective microphone"

RobertKK

Hillary Clinton came out and said the stuff Trump said was horrific and he was not fit to be president.
True, but what does that say about Hillary? Given Juanita Broaddrick says her husband raped her, Gennifer Flowers, Monica Lewisnsky, Paula Jones who sued Bill for sexual harrassment...

None of these people are/were fit for President, a total disgrace the lot of them.
American voters should just go for Gary Johnson and Jill Stein, and abandon the the two front runners who are disasters.

Overheal

RobertKK wrote: »

Hillary Clinton came out and said the stuff Trump said was horrific and he was not fit to be president.
True, but what does that say about Hillary given Juanita Broaddrick says her husband raped her, Gennifer Flowers, Monica Lewisnsky, Paula Jones who sued Bill for sexual harrassment...

None of these people are/were fit for President, a total disgrace the lot of them.
American voters should just go for Gary Johnson and Jill Stein, and abandon the the two front runners who are disasters.

If I'm not mistaken Bill was impeached for impropriety.

I think that ground has been long covered.

Meanwhile let's remember that time Ivanka said her father is not a groper. oops

http://www.mediaite.com/online/heres-some-old-footage-of-ivanka-trump-saying-her-dad-is-not-a-groper/

I love October.

Billy86

RobertKK wrote: »

Hillary Clinton came out and said the stuff Trump said was horrific and he was not fit to be president.
True, but what does that say about Hillary? Given Juanita Broaddrick says her husband raped her, Gennifer Flowers, Monica Lewisnsky, Paula Jones who sued Bill for sexual harrassment...

None of these people are/were fit for President, a total disgrace the lot of them.
American voters should just go for Gary Johnson and Jill Stein, and abandon the the two front runners who are disasters.

Bill's overall performance in office showed he was more than fit to be president - the US was looking in a great position before GWB went and squandered it. Also I'm not sure if you're aware but those were allegations and not him bragging about it. Also unsure if you're aware, but Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton are two different people. Just saying because there seems to be some confusion on that last part with you.

RobertKK

Overheal wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken Bill was impeached for impropriety.

I think that ground has been long covered.

Meanwhile let's remember that time Ivanka said her father is not a groper. oops

http://www.mediaite.com/online/heres-some-old-footage-of-ivanka-trump-saying-her-dad-is-not-a-groper/

I love October.

The thing is if Hillary brings this up at the debate, Trump will bring up stuff that Bill Clinton did, and he says Clinton said worse on the golf course.
None of this justifies anything, it just shows how both the Trumps and Clintons should be on the scrapheap.

InTheTrees

RobertKK wrote: »

Hillary Clinton came out and said the stuff Trump said was horrific and he was not fit to be president.

The story has been gaining traction all day. I thought it was going to just get swept away with all the rest of the nonsense trump says but it isnt.

Quin_Dub

RobertKK wrote: »

The thing is if Hillary brings this up at the debate, Trump will bring up stuff that Bill Clinton did, and he says Clinton said worse on the golf course.
None of this justifies anything, it just shows how both the Trumps and Clintons should be on the scrapheap.

To be honest, the best thing for Clinton would be to say nothing.. Not because she's be worried about what Trump would say about her, but because by not discussing it, it meansTrump has to try and discuss policy because he now can't attack 1st.

In the Town hall style setting, he'll end up going off on multiple incoherent rambles.. She's a policy wonk and will give detailed replies..

She gets points for being "above it all" and he just looks out of his depth..

This story has removed any chance Trump had of going on the attack , thereby losing him the debate and the Election.

InTheTrees

RobertKK wrote: »

The thing is if Hillary brings this up at the debate, Trump will bring up stuff that Bill Clinton did, and he says Clinton said worse on the golf course.

Attacking a woman for her wayward spouse's behaviour is almost as stupid as commenting on someone weight.
If trump tries to come after Hillary for what her husband did he may as well kiss the election goodbye.

Overheal

The decanters in Washington will be a little drier tonight regardless of what party they belong to

RobertKK

InTheTrees wrote: »

Attacking a woman for her wayward spouse's behaviour is almost as stupid as commenting on someone weight.
If trump tries to come after Hillary for what her husband did he may as well kiss the election goodbye.

Well if he clarifies what Bill said on the golf course...but it sounds strange when you have Hillary criticising Trump when she never dealt with Colin Powell's claims that Bill is still dicking around.

InTheTrees

RobertKK wrote: »

Well if he clarifies what Bill said on the golf course.

Whats he going to do? Stand up in the debate and tell some uncorroborated story about what bill said to him on a golf course one day? Just hearsay?

As a defense against a recording of him speaking? A recording thats all over the US media today.

He'll be laughed at.

Trent Houseboat

InTheTrees wrote: »

Attacking a woman for her wayward spouse's behaviour is almost as stupid as commenting on someone weight.
If trump tries to come after Hillary for what her husband did he may as well kiss the election goodbye

Without asking.

RobertKK

Wikileaks released some stuff from Hillary Clinton's emails.

She says she is removed from understanding the middle class due to living a privileged life for so many years.

Podesta who is backing Clinton and close associate calls Jake Tapper of CNN a 'dick'.

Billy86

RobertKK wrote: »

Well if he clarifies what Bill said on the golf course...but it sounds strange when you have Hillary criticising Trump when she never dealt with Colin Powell's claims that Bill is still dicking around.

There's no merit in anything Trump says about anyone though, without definitive proof at least. He has if nothing else in this campaign, shown himself to be a remarkably consistent liar whose word on it's own is worth absolutely nothing.

Billy86

RobertKK wrote: »

Wikileaks released some stuff from Hillary Clinton's emails.

She says she is removed from understanding the middle class due to living a privileged life for so many years.

Podesta who is backing Clinton and close associate calls Jake Tapper of CNN a 'dick'.

But I thought CNN & co were all pally-pally with Clinton? The narrative seems to be breaking down here...

BorneTobyWilde

Trump need to speak from heart now. No script and come out and save himself if possible. He will have to do it on camera not in text. He has never done that before, to admit he was wrong, he always comes out to defend not admit wrong.

RobertKK

Billy86 wrote: »

But I thought CNN & co were all pally-pally with Clinton? The narrative seems to be breaking down here...

Those emails are from when he was with ABC and the White House correspondent.

Trent Houseboat

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Trump need to speak from heart now. No script and come out and save himself if possible. He will have to do it on camera not in text. He has never done that before, to admit he was wrong, he always comes out to defend not admit wrong.

No script seems like a terrible idea. He'll end up talking about Rosie O'Donnell and lad he went to school with in the 1950s.
Also admitting he was wrong isn't the type of thing he'd do on camera.

RobertKK

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Trump need to speak from heart now. No script and come out and save himself if possible. He will have to do it on camera not in text. He has never done that before, to admit he was wrong, he always comes out to defend not admit wrong.

The first attempt was poor where he apologised if people were offended.

Billy86

RobertKK wrote: »

Those emails are from when he was with ABC and the White House correspondent.

Yes, ABC too. The whole 'mainstream media'. And the White House correspondent for the Democratic Party. The narrative has imploded.

That's not to say there won't be some damning stuff in those emails - I am sure there will be. But this kind of constant reaching is why the claims against Clinton have consistently diminishing returns.

Trent Houseboat

RobertKK wrote: »

Those emails are from when he was with ABC and the White House correspondent.

So we can write ABC off the list of MSM in Clinton's pocket.

K-9

RobertKK wrote: »

Wikileaks released some stuff from Hillary Clinton's emails.

She says she is removed from understanding the middle class due to living a privileged life for so many years.

Podesta who is backing Clinton and close associate calls Jake Tapper of CNN a 'dick'.

If they can get a quote on the middle class thing that would be damaging.

Calling a journalist a dick is a non story, Trump regularly berates the press.

Trent Houseboat

K-9 wrote: »

If they can get a quote on the middle class thing that would be damaging.

Calling a journalist a dick is a non story, Trump regularly berates the press.

There's traction in the middle class comment alright. She's seen as elite. Just not sure if it's enough to counteract his being a genius for not paying taxes. A lot of hard working tax payers might see that as him calling them stupid.

RobertKK

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/784541176418463744

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/784538205156700164

She told Goldman Sachs one needs to have a public and a private opinion.
She said she only wants to hold Wall St accountable for political reasons.
She told GS that financial reform in Wall St has to come from Wall St insiders.
She said running for office requires a lot of money and she needs money from Wall St for her campaign.
She said as a senator she has done all she can so Wall st can prosper.

Hillary said she was aware of security concerns around the use of Blackberries.
She makes it clear that she was well aware of technology being open to security breaches, in particular phones and computers.

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/784531001284362240
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/784529660625453057

Hillary says a no fly zone in Syria will need boots on the ground.
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/784525764595187714

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/784535760418603012

There is more if one looks for it, 2050 emails of 50,000 were released.

RobertKK

Wikileaks are still releasing...

Hillary says the US will put "Ring China with missile defence" if North Korea missile and nuclear program progresses.
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/784562162656243713

Hillary says Saudi Arabia has exported more extreme ideology than any other nation.
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/784564871883087872

Bin Laden was discovered by a intercepted phone call.
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/784567795170304004

She was telling Goldman Sachs a lot of stuff. Wikileaks asks if Hillary was giving them classified information.

Billy86

How bad is this for Trump? This bad...



...as it this!

"No woman should ever be described in these terms or talked about in this manner. Ever," said Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus in a statement, a rare condemnation from the party's chairman who has stood by Trump through several other controversies.

---

"His comments are totally inappropriate and offensive," said New Hampshire Republican Sen. Kelly Ayotte, who is locked in one of the most competitive Senate races in the country.

---

"This one will cause real damage," said Republican pollster Frank Luntz.

---

"As the grandfather of two precious girls, I find that no apology can excuse away Donald Trump's reprehensible comments degrading women," Republican Jeb Bush tweeted.

---

Florida-based Republican strategist Al Cardenas questioned whether these remarks might become yet another controversial remark from Trump that failed to move the needle in this election.

"The query is whether after 50 plus outlandish, offensive comments towards women and minorities by Mr Trump, is this one so over the top over the others that it will finally make a difference with voters where others have not?" Cardenas mused. "It does seem to reach new lows."

---

"It's an understatement to say this now means Trump heads into Sunday's debate on defense, which hasn't worked out well for a candidate that has trouble staying on message even under normal circumstances," Republican strategist Sarah Isgur Flores said. "That being said, there's a huge overlap between Trump voters and voters who already think Trump is a risky bet.

"So unclear whether this alone will move numbers, but it does make his ability to handle it at the debate in 48 hours wildly more important," she added.

But it's the Paul Ryan one that is going to, by far, do the most damage.

alastair

RobertKK wrote: »

Wikileaks released some stuff from Hillary Clinton's emails.

She says she is removed from understanding the middle class due to living a privileged life for so many years.

No,she doesn't:

“My father loved to complain about big business and big government, but we had a solid middle class upbringing. We had good public schools. We had accessible health care. We had our little, you know, one-family house that, you know, he saved up his money, didn't believe in mortgages. So I lived that,” she said in the speech. “And now, obviously, I'm kind of far removed because the life I've lived and the economic, you know, fortunes that my husband and I now enjoy, but I haven't forgotten it.”

Seems a fair enough comment from a millionare.

RobertKK

alastair wrote: »

No,she doesn't:


Seems a fair enough comment from a millionare.

She said she never had a feeling the system is rigged.
Well her emails showed the DNC tries to rig it for her...

Trent Houseboat

Frank Luntz might be an objectionable Man Baby but he knows the tide

alastair

RobertKK wrote: »

She said she never had a feeling the system is rigged.
Well her emails showed the DNC tries to rig it for her...

What has that got to do with your claim that she is 'removed from understanding the middle class'? The actual quote claims the exact opposite!

alastair

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

Frank Luntz might be an objectionable Man Baby but he knows the tide

He knew the tide as soon as Trump was nominated, and didn't pretend otherwise. It would take some serious head in the sand to pretend Trump isn't toast now though.

RobertKK

The Saudi regime is not stable and will look to get nuclear weapons.
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/784572142444740615

Israel is working with Jordan to shore up King Abdullah.
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/784574732431687680

Hillary's emails are going to be a problem as I am sure the worst will be saved till last.

alastair

RobertKK wrote: »

Hillary's emails are going to be a problem as I am sure the worst will be saved till last.

For Assange, I'd hope so, because this is all incredibly dull and tepid so far.

InTheTrees

Billy86 wrote: »

How bad is this for Trump? This bad...

There's a lot of speculation on the news channels tonight that he might step down.

I dont think there's any way he can. Early voting has already begun in some states.

But this story is that bad for him.

Save