2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

Peist2007

K-9 wrote: »

Which still leaves Assad and Syria in a mess.

True to an extent but it stops ISIS. Assad hasnt been shooting up any metal music gigs in Paris or sending suicide bombers into football grounds in Europe as far as i am aware. Hence ISIS is the pressing problem and Trump is the only one of the candidates in this race who has appeared to have any iota of how this is to be done.

The whole Assad and Syria being in a mess is a product of American propaganda also. Unless you didnt notice the beautiful untouched parts of Aleppo that arent rebel-held?

KingBrian2

If women believe Trump is the worst candidate they should look at how Hillary voted for the war in Iraq in which chemical weapons were used against the Iraqi people. The spread of Al Qaeda in Iraq which became ISIS and how she stands up and defends her policy of war mongering by accusing the Syrian gv and Russia of war crimes. Horrible lady and the media once again let her off the hook.

By contrast Trump raised all the points and showed her how capable anyone can be when hammering public officials on the criminal errors gvt make. When gvt messes up lives are lost and thankfully Trump in his entire career has never harmed another person. He stands up for the working poor that have been so neglected by the media in this election. I can see now why President Obama beat Clinton. She is such a lousy candidate.

Phoebas

Peist2007 wrote: »

True to an extent but it stops ISIS. Assad hasnt been shooting up any metal music gigs in Paris or sending suicide bombers into football grounds in Europe as far as i am aware. Hence ISIS is the pressing problem and Trump is the only one of the candidates in this race who has appeared to have any iota of how this is to be done.

The whole Assad and Syria being in a mess is a product of American propaganda also. Unless you didnt notice the beautiful untouched parts of Aleppo that arent rebel-held?

What exactly has he said about how this is to be done, because the last I heard, he was keeping his 'plan' secret so ISIS wouldn't get wind of it.

What do you know about it?

Amerika

Brian? wrote: »

Vast over simplification. But it's nice to have a debate about policy and the issues instead of arguing who's the least hawkish or insulting.

Hillary has said many times, including last night that no one earning less than 250k would see a tax increase. And increases would be staggered to hit those earning 5m more than anyone else.

As has also been pointed out here repeatedly, Hillary's economic policy will create less deficit spending than Trumps's.

Is there an evil in this world that Hillary believes can’t be fixed by taxing the rich?

The interest on our debt is soon to be our third highest federal expenditure. Her proposed ideas and regulations will only serve to drive more businesses overseas and cause higher unemployment and for those business that will remain means higher costs which will hurt the poor and middle class. Her fix to ObamaCare is to have a single-payer system. You can tax the rich at 100% and it will do almost nothing to fix the sins of the last eight years, and those Hillary plans on continuing.

Peist2007

Phoebas wrote: »

What exactly has he said about how this is to be done, because the last I heard, he was keeping his 'plan' secret so ISIS wouldn't get wind of it.

What do you know about it?

He even said it last night. He said that talking to Russia was better than the current route being taken. On that point he is absolutely correct. That is what stops ISIS given Russia are destroying ISIS currently.

Phoebas

Peist2007 wrote: »

He even said it last night. He said that talking to Russia was better than the current route being taken. On that point he is absolutely correct. That is what stops ISIS given Russia are destroying ISIS currently.

So his policy on ISIS is to outsource the work to Russia!

#BringTheJobsBackHome

Peist2007

Phoebas wrote: »

So his policy on ISIS is to outsource the work to Russia!

#BringTheJobsBackHome

Russia and Assad are allies. The Russians took over operations in October 2015. It makes geopolitical sense to assist them in their destruction of ISIS.

However, the above is not what the Americans want for Syria and their "humanitarian reasons" for getting Assad out is complete bull:

US Defense Intelligence Agency Report on Syria Summer 2012:
http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Pg.-291-Pgs.-287-293-JW-v-DOD-and-State-14-812-DOD-Release-2015-04-10-final-version11.pdf

See p3 para B & C, P5 para 7B, and 8C.

Phoebas

Peist2007 wrote: »

Russia and Assad are allies. The Russians took over operations in October 2015. It makes geopolitical sense to assist them in their destruction of ISIS.

However, the above is not what the Americans want for Syria and their "humanitarian reasons" for getting Assad out is complete bull:

US Defense Intelligence Agency Report on Syria Summer 2012:
http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Pg.-291-Pgs.-287-293-JW-v-DOD-and-State-14-812-DOD-Release-2015-04-10-final-version11.pdf

See p3 para B & C, P5 para 7B, and 8C.

Is this a change to his original 'policy'?

Trump: "I would bomb the shít out of them"

https://youtu.be/aWejiXvd-P8

K-9

Peist2007 wrote: »

True to an extent but it stops ISIS. Assad hasnt been shooting up any metal music gigs in Paris or sending suicide bombers into football grounds in Europe as far as i am aware. Hence ISIS is the pressing problem and Trump is the only one of the candidates in this race who has appeared to have any iota of how this is to be done.

The whole Assad and Syria being in a mess is a product of American propaganda also. Unless you didnt notice the beautiful untouched parts of Aleppo that arent rebel-held?

Defeating ISIS isn't going to stop attacks in Paris, unfortunately that ship sailed ages ago.

As for coverage of the mess in Syria being American propaganda? Jaysus, the Americans don't come out looking great in all of this either.

K-9

Amerika wrote: »

RADDATZ: And, Secretary Clinton, I do want to follow up on e- mails. You’ve said your handing of your e-mails was a mistake. You disagreed with FBI Director James Comey, calling your handling of classified information, quote, “extremely careless.” The FBI said that there were 110 classified e-mails that were exchanged, eight of which were top secret, and that it was possible hostile actors did gain access to those e-mails. You don’t call that extremely careless?

CLINTON: Well, Martha, first, let me say — and I’ve said before, but I’ll repeat it, because I want everyone to hear it — that was a mistake, and I take responsibility for using a personal e-mail account. Obviously, if I were to do it over again, I would not. I’m not making any excuses. It was a mistake. And I am very sorry about that.

But I think it’s also important to point out where there are some misleading accusations from critics and others. After a year-long investigation, there is no evidence that anyone hacked the server I was using and there is no evidence that anyone can point to at all — anyone who says otherwise has no basis — that any classified material ended up in the wrong hands.

I take classified materials very seriously and always have. When I was on the Senate Armed Services Committee, I was privy to a lot of classified material. Obviously, as secretary of state, I had some of the most important secrets that we possess, such as going after bin Laden. So I am very committed to taking classified information seriously. And as I said, there is no evidence that any classified information ended up in the wrong hands.

RADDATZ: OK, we’re going to move on… (No challenges, no follow-up, no fact-checking, no ma’am... Because ‘I’m With Her.’ Oh thank you Hillary, I'm sooooo very sorry I had to even bring it up.)

That certainly wasn't the only exchange on the matter. Trump brought it up again several times.

Peist2007

Phoebas wrote: »

Is this a change to his original 'policy'?

Trump: "I would bomb the shít out of them"

https://youtu.be/aWejiXvd-P8

Do you think the current American strategy of funding, arming and supporting them is better?

Your attached vid is dated November 2015. Trump was speaking to the republican base at that time. The extent of Russia's success in Syria had not become apparent by that stage.

Amerika

K-9 wrote: »

That certainly wasn't the only exchange on the matter. Trump brought it up again several times.

Yeah, Trump brought it up again. We can't expect the moderators to push to seek the truth about it, now can we? Especially after the moderators wasted almost 30 minutes of the debate focusing on some locker room potty-mouth comment Trump made a decade ago. And because, you know... the 'I'm With Her' thing, and all.

Peist2007

K-9 wrote: »

Defeating ISIS isn't going to stop attacks in Paris, unfortunately that ship sailed ages ago.

As for coverage of the mess in Syria being American propaganda? Jaysus, the Americans don't come out looking great in all of this either.

The attacks in Paris, Belgium, Brussels etc were all carried out by ISIS. This organisation needs to be stopped. Hillary's suggestion will likely lead to war with Russia. Trump's suggestion will likely lead to no war with Russia and remove possibly one of the greatest realistic threats to us sitting in Ireland ie ISIS.

As for the propaganda point, i agree that the Americans are looking bad. Their attempt to pave the way clear for a rebel attack by bombing Syrian army positions and breaking the ceasefire a couple of weeks ago was a shameful act. The media's clambering and obfuscating since gives a clear indication. Sky News reported 3 days after that attack that the Russians had broken the ceasefire! The propaganda is mind-boggling at times and, when you think that most people skim the news on a daily basis, it is hiding in plain sight.

Brian?

Amerika wrote: »

Is there an evil in this world that Hillary believes can’t be fixed by taxing the rich?

The interest on our debt is soon to be our third highest federal expenditure. Her proposed ideas and regulations will only serve to drive more businesses overseas and cause higher unemployment and for those business that will remain means higher costs which will hurt the poor and middle class. Her fix to ObamaCare is to have a single-payer system. You can tax the rich at 100% and it will do almost nothing to fix the sins of the last eight years, and those Hillary plans on continuing.

You could try responding to the points I made, instead of replying with empty rhetoric.

KingBrian2

Scanned through the news today and two stories took my notice as they relate to Europe & America today and the dangers we are encountering.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/germany-captures-syrian-man-suspected-of-planning-bomb-attack-1.2823698?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fworld%2Feurope%2Fgermany-captures-syrian-man-suspected-of-planning-bomb-attack-1.2823698

http://www.news.com.au/world/former-glamour-model-kimberley-miners-held-by-police-over-alleged-ties-to-islamic-state/news-story/dc17aabad6368f320c02e56b71d7b3b9

They are recruiting ladies and gentlemen. See for yourself fighters in Europe to fight in the Muslim countries of Syria & Iraq. This is a reality and nobody picks up on this. When Trump challenges the Jihadists he is attacked and attacked and attacked.

Phoebas

Peist2007 wrote: »

Do you think the current American strategy of funding, arming and supporting them is better?

Better than what? Better than bombing the **** out of them or better than allowing Russia, Syria and Iran do the job for him?

Peist2007 wrote: »

Your attached vid is dated November 2015. Trump was speaking to the republican base at that time. The extent of Russia's success in Syria had not become apparent by that stage.

Are you expecting people to believe that Trump's ever had a policy on ISIS and that the policy has since changed as events changed?

The truth of it is that he has no policy. His comments last night were him attempting to evade the question of ISIS, not answer it. He doesn't have a policy, so he tries to pivot to someone else - much like you are doing in trying to focus on 'the current American strategy' because you know that Trump has no strategy of his own.

oscarBravo

KingBrian2 wrote: »

When Trump challenges the Jihadists he is attacked and attacked and attacked.

"I have a plan, but I'm not telling you what it is."

Yeah, ISIS are ****ting themselves.

Amerika

Brian? wrote: »

You could try responding to the points I made, instead of replying with empty rhetoric.

How about you posting specific policies and plans that Hillary wants that won't hurt the economy, add more debt, and cause more unemployment. Then we'll get beyond rhetoric.



We can start with her Trillion dollar tax hike:

Payroll Tax Hike – Hillary said she would not veto a payroll tax increase on all Americans should such a bill reach her desk.
Result: Hurts middle class.

Soda Tax Hike – Hillary endorsed a steep new soda pop tax in Philadelphia. This will cost soda purchasers an extra $2.16 per 12-pack.
Result: Hurts Middle class.

25% National Gun Tax – Hillary endorsed a new national 25% retail sales tax on guns. “I am all for that,” she told the Senate in 1993. On June 5, 2016 she was asked about her gun tax endorsement by George Stephanopoulos on ABC’s This Week. She acknowledged her gun tax endorsement and did not disavow it, saying she wanted the gun tax money to pay for Hillarycare.
Result: Hurts Middle class.

65% Death Tax – Hillary is now pushing a 65% Death Tax. Note: Her own finances are arranged to shield herself from death taxes.
Result: Rich will, LIKE HER, find ways to shield themselves from death taxes.

Capital Gains Tax Hike – Hillary has proposed the most complex and Byzantine capital gains tax regime in American history, with ten different rates. She raises the top capital gains tax rate from 23.8% to 43.4%.
Result: Will also hurt Middle Class retirement investment.

No Corporate Income Tax Rate Relief for Anyone – Hillary offers no income tax rate reduction for any business. The USA has the highest corporate income tax in the world, which kills jobs and makes us less competitive.
Results: More business will leave the US, less tax revenues will be realized, and will cause higher unemployment for Middle Class and poor Americans.

Carbon Tax – Hillary’s campaign has opened the door to a carbon tax if she wins the White House.
Result: Higher costs on products which hurts Middle Class and poor.

Peist2007

Phoebas wrote: »

Better than what? Better than bombing the **** out of them or better than allowing Russia, Syria and Iran do the job for him?

Of course talking to the Russians as opposed to funding their enemy is the smart approach. You seem to think this is a jobs issue. It is a global security issue.

Phoebas wrote: »

Are you expecting people to believe that Trump's ever had a policy on ISIS and that the policy has since changed as events changed?

The truth of it is that he has no policy. His comments last night were him attempting to evade the question of ISIS, not answer it. He doesn't have a policy, so he tries to pivot to someone else - much like you are doing in trying to focus on 'the current American strategy' because you know that Trump has no strategy of his own.

I'm not asking people to believe anything. You put up a video from November 2015. Since that video Russia has more or less taken over governmental duties in Syria and Trump has since secured the republican primary nomination.

You have posted a video showing Trump announcing a policy of sorts. I responded to same referring to his words last night which indicate that talks with the Russians are the smart move. Which i wholeheartedly agree with as should you.

Any links for your inside knowledge? You seem pretty certain. Or should your above post be prefaced with "in my opinion"?

Peist2007

oscarBravo wrote: »

"I have a plan, but I'm not telling you what it is."

Yeah, ISIS are ****ting themselves.

Talk. To. Russia.

An excellent plan, in fact.

oscarBravo

Peist2007 wrote: »

Talk. To. Russia.

An excellent plan, in fact.

You think the US doesn't talk to Russia?

Phoebas

Peist2007 wrote: »

Of course talking to the Russians as opposed to funding their enemy is the smart approach. You seem to think this is a jobs issue. It is a global security issue.


I'm not asking people to believe anything. You put up a video from November 2015. Since that video Russia has more or less taken over governmental duties in Syria and Trump has since secured the republican primary nomination.

You have posted a video showing Trump announcing a policy of sorts. I responded to same referring to his words last night which indicate that talks with the Russians are the smart move. Which i wholeheartedly agree with as should you.

Talks with the Russians? When did he announce that as his ISIS policy?
Here's what we said last night in relation to Russia and ISIS.

Trump wrote:

"I don't like Assad at all, but Assad is killing ISIS. Russia is killing ISIS. And Iran is killing ISIS. And those three have now lined up because of our weak foreign policy"

Does this amount to what you believe to be an actual policy? And will he also be opening talks with Iran on ISIS?
If this was his policy wouldn't I be able to go to his website, look under the section called 'FOREIGN POLICY AND DEFEATING ISIS' and read about it?

Because, I've looked and there is no mention of Russian cooperation in there at all.

Godge

Amerika wrote: »

How about you posting specific policies and plans that Hillary wants that won't hurt the economy, add more debt, and cause more unemployment. Then we'll get beyond rhetoric.



We can start with her Trillion dollar tax hike:

You know and I know that there will be swings and roundabout. Only counting the swings results in a trillion dollars. The roundabouts will result in a benefit to the middle classes.

Amerika wrote: »

Payroll Tax Hike – Hillary said she would not veto a payroll tax increase on all Americans should such a bill reach her desk.
Result: Hurts middle class.

From what I can see, Clinton is supposed to be looking at raising the cap (hurts higher income earners) and increasing the range of income subject to the tax (hurts those who have unearned income through rent/dividends rather than ordinary workers)

I see nothing in that that hurts the middle class, in fact if successful enough, it protects the availability of social security to the middle class and/or may lead to a reduction in the rate thanks to the wider tax net. Overall, neutral to potentially good for the middle class.

Amerika wrote: »

Soda Tax Hike – Hillary endorsed a steep new soda pop tax in Philadelphia. This will cost soda purchasers an extra $2.16 per 12-pack.
Result: Hurts Middle class.

A Soda Tax Hike will hurt those who consume more soda (mostly lower educated and definitely not middle class). The benefits of this tax will be a reduction in health care costs, which will benefit the middle class. Overally, beneficial to the middle class

Amerika wrote: »

25% National Gun Tax – Hillary endorsed a new national 25% retail sales tax on guns. “I am all for that,” she told the Senate in 1993. On June 5, 2016 she was asked about her gun tax endorsement by George Stephanopoulos on ABC’s This Week. She acknowledged her gun tax endorsement and did not disavow it, saying she wanted the gun tax money to pay for Hillarycare.
Result: Hurts Middle class.

Gun tax hurts those who want to kill and maim, not a problem in my view. As violent crime reduces towards normal Western levels due to the reduced availability of weapons, there is a saving to the middle class in terms of reduced cost of health care and reduced cost of prison population. Overall, a benefit to the middle class unless you are a violent psychopath with a need for lots of guns.

Amerika wrote: »

65% Death Tax – Hillary is now pushing a 65% Death Tax. Note: Her own finances are arranged to shield herself from death taxes.
Result: Rich will, LIKE HER, find ways to shield themselves from death taxes.

Inheritance taxes are taxes on wealth, a very good thing in my opinion. Will hurt those with most wealth, certainly not the middle class. Overall, will only hurt the middle class with inherited wealth, those who have worked the American dream to pull themselves up will benefit.

Amerika wrote: »

Capital Gains Tax Hike – Hillary has proposed the most complex and Byzantine capital gains tax regime in American history, with ten different rates. She raises the top capital gains tax rate from 23.8% to 43.4%.
Result: Will also hurt Middle Class retirement investment.

Again, a wealth tax that will hurt the rich first and foremost. Not a reason to complain.

Amerika wrote: »

No Corporate Income Tax Rate Relief for Anyone – Hillary offers no income tax rate reduction for any business. The USA has the highest corporate income tax in the world, which kills jobs and makes us less competitive.
Results: More business will leave the US, less tax revenues will be realized, and will cause higher unemployment for Middle Class and poor Americans.

The biggest issue out there is the failure of corporations to pay taxes, similar to individuals. The biggest reason for this is loopholes and reliefs. Eliminating them is the first step to a fair corporate tax system.

Amerika wrote: »

Carbon Tax – Hillary’s campaign has opened the door to a carbon tax if she wins the White House.
Result: Higher costs on products which hurts Middle Class and poor.

A US carbon tax is badly needed to save the planet. Overall, a real benefit for the middle class, because if they don't have a planet to live on.........

B0jangles

New NBC/WSJ poll out just now (first since the tape story broke)

https://twitter.com/samsteinhp/status/785510212291686400

Clinton's up 14% in a 2-way against Trump.

Also Rassmussen have her up 7 points on Trump since Friday

Rasmussen Reports’ latest national telephone and online survey of Likely U.S. Voters finds that Democrat Hillary Clinton has now jumped out to a seven-point lead – 45% to 38% - over Trump. On Friday, the two were in a virtual tie – Clinton 43%, Trump 42%.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/white_house_watch_oct10

oik

Amerika wrote: »

25% National Gun Tax – Hillary endorsed a new national 25% retail sales tax on guns. “I am all for that,” she told the Senate in 1993. On June 5, 2016 she was asked about her gun tax endorsement by George Stephanopoulos on ABC’s This Week. She acknowledged her gun tax endorsement and did not disavow it, saying she wanted the gun tax money to pay for Hillarycare.
Result: Hurts Middle class.

Wow.

Hillary supports Jim Crow gun laws.

This is how they used to keep guns out of the hands of blacks back in the day and it will have the same effect today, disproportionately affecting blacks.

North Carolina still has one of those laws on the books.

Amerika

Godge wrote: »

You know and I know that there will be swings and roundabout. Only counting the swings results in a trillion dollars. The roundabouts will result in a benefit to the middle classes.

Please show me where the benefits to the middle class are.

From what I can see, Clinton is supposed to be looking at raising the cap (hurts higher income earners) and increasing the range of income subject to the tax (hurts those who have unearned income through rent/dividends rather than ordinary workers)

It calls for a payroll tax increase on all Americans levied on all wages up to $113,700. She vowed she would add no taxes to Americans making less than $250,000 per year. Translation… she’s lying her way into office.

I see nothing in that that hurts the middle class, in fact if successful enough, it protects the availability of social security to the middle class and/or may lead to a reduction in the rate thanks to the wider tax net. Overall, neutral to potentially good for the middle class.

I thought Social Security was doing just fine and in no danger, according to what Democrats have told us for decades. Are you now saying they've been lying to us all that time?

A Soda Tax Hike will hurt those who consume more soda (mostly lower educated and definitely not middle class). The benefits of this tax will be a reduction in health care costs, which will benefit the middle class. Overally, beneficial to the middle class

The middle class drink plenty of soda. But by your thinking it's okay to target the poor with higher taxes, based on the idea they might stop drinking soda cold turkey? Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

Gun tax hurts those who want to kill and maim, not a problem in my view. As violent crime reduces towards normal Western levels due to the reduced availability of weapons, there is a saving to the middle class in terms of reduced cost of health care and reduced cost of prison population. Overall, a benefit to the middle class unless you are a violent psychopath with a need for lots of guns.

There are now more guns that people in the US. According to you everyone that owns one has intentions to kill and maim? Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds? We have six guns in our family. How in the world have we been able to restrain ourselves all these years?

Inheritance taxes are taxes on wealth, a very good thing in my opinion. Will hurt those with most wealth, certainly not the middle class. Overall, will only hurt the middle class with inherited wealth, those who have worked the American dream to pull themselves up will benefit.

Do you Honestly think people who have amassed huge amounts of wealth won’t find a way to shelter their wealth from taxes, just has Hillary has done?

Again, a wealth tax that will hurt the rich first and foremost. Not a reason to complain.

Ordinary people have investments which pay better then the interest on a saving account, and investments for retirement that result in capital gains. They're not all rich. Will they be paying more in taxes or won't they?

The biggest issue out there is the failure of corporations to pay taxes, similar to individuals. The biggest reason for this is loopholes and reliefs. Eliminating them is the first step to a fair corporate tax system.

No, the failure is corporations are already paying far to much in taxes. Why do you think they are leaving for other countries? The weather?

A US carbon tax is badly needed to save the planet. Overall, a real benefit for the middle class, because if they don't have a planet to live on.........

A carbon tax will do nothing to save the planet. It is just a way to redistribute wealth to their political cronies. Do you contend it won't drive up the cost of products that will hurt the middle class and the poor?

Christy42

Amerika wrote: »

How about you posting specific policies and plans that Hillary wants that won't hurt the economy, add more debt, and cause more unemployment. Then we'll get beyond rhetoric.



We can start with her Trillion dollar tax hike:

Payroll Tax Hike – Hillary said she would not veto a payroll tax increase on all Americans should such a bill reach her desk.
Result: Hurts middle class.

Soda Tax Hike – Hillary endorsed a steep new soda pop tax in Philadelphia. This will cost soda purchasers an extra $2.16 per 12-pack.
Result: Hurts Middle class.

25% National Gun Tax – Hillary endorsed a new national 25% retail sales tax on guns. “I am all for that,” she told the Senate in 1993. On June 5, 2016 she was asked about her gun tax endorsement by George Stephanopoulos on ABC’s This Week. She acknowledged her gun tax endorsement and did not disavow it, saying she wanted the gun tax money to pay for Hillarycare.
Result: Hurts Middle class.

65% Death Tax – Hillary is now pushing a 65% Death Tax. Note: Her own finances are arranged to shield herself from death taxes.
Result: Rich will, LIKE HER, find ways to shield themselves from death taxes.

Capital Gains Tax Hike – Hillary has proposed the most complex and Byzantine capital gains tax regime in American history, with ten different rates. She raises the top capital gains tax rate from 23.8% to 43.4%.
Result: Will also hurt Middle Class retirement investment.

No Corporate Income Tax Rate Relief for Anyone – Hillary offers no income tax rate reduction for any business. The USA has the highest corporate income tax in the world, which kills jobs and makes us less competitive.
Results: More business will leave the US, less tax revenues will be realized, and will cause higher unemployment for Middle Class and poor Americans.

Carbon Tax – Hillary’s campaign has opened the door to a carbon tax if she wins the White House.
Result: Higher costs on products which hurts Middle Class and poor.

The middle class are all addicted to soda???

Death tax does not affect the middle class as has been discussed (potentially the upper middle class) but certainly not the majority.

I fail to see an issue with a gun tax. Hardly a requirement for the middle class.

You know plenty of other countries survive and tend to have less issues with wealth distribution with high taxes right?

Phoebas

oik wrote: »

Wow.

Hillary supports Jim Crow gun laws.

This is how they used to keep guns out of the hands of blacks back in the day and it will have the same effect today, disproportionately affecting blacks.

North Carolina still has one of those laws on the books.

The thing is - this kind of nonsense doesn't convince anyone who isn't already convinced.

TheDoctor

Clinton ahead in Arizona.

Arizona!!!!

oik

Phoebas wrote: »

The thing is - this kind of nonsense doesn't convince anyone who isn't already convinced.

I'm not trying to convince anyone on here to change their mind on guns.

But the gun tax will disproportionately affect poor blacks who probably need guns for self-defence more than anyone.

Christy42

oik wrote: »

I'm not trying to convince anyone on here to change their mind on guns.

But the gun tax will disproportionately affect poor blacks who probably need guns for self-defence more than anyone.

How often do black people require guns in self defense? How many cases of this are happening on a yearly basis?

This statement makes 0 sense. More guns in poor communities is not a good answer for gun crime. What sort of logic is this?

vetinari

Seriously, people are trying to argue that a gun tax is a massive impact on the middle class??
I think I've heard it all now.

Amerika

vetinari wrote: »

Seriously, people are trying to argue that a gun tax is a massive impact on the middle class??
I think I've heard it all now.

Who said it was a massive impact on the middle class? Inquiring minds want to know.

All I was pointing out was Hillary is lying her way into office, yet again, and this time about not taxing the middle class.

Amerika

Christy42 wrote: »

You know plenty of other countries survive and tend to have less issues with wealth distribution with high taxes right?

Ah yes, the solutions to all our problems in the US is to become Greece. You know, Hillary might concur.

gosplan

Nice to see people seeing through Donald's schtick.

Anyone who feels they have that much to prove to the world has a serious chip on their shoulder.

Inside he's just a small boy with no self esteem.

Small hands probably

Billy86

There are going to be some very, very angry people when Bill's indiscretions fail to keep a Clinton out of the White House again.

Angry, and sad.

KingBrian2

gosplan wrote: »

Nice to see people seeing through Donald's schtick.

Anyone who feels they have that much to prove to the world has a serious chip on their shoulder.

Inside he's just a small boy with no self esteem.

Small hands probably

Why with the personal attacks? Trump is attacked way more than Hillary. It is unreal. Nobody brings up why she never dumped Clinton after his sexual relations. Not worth going after IMO yet they continue to pursue this line against Trump that he is some sort of sexual beast. This is ugly ugly stuff. Bill was called slick willy for Christ sake. Where do suppose he got that nickname from? Hardly from sitting at home with his wife and a good book.

gosplan

Billy86 wrote: »

There are going to be some very, very angry people when Bill's indiscretions fail to keep a Clinton out of the White House again.

Angry, and sad.

I fail to see how one side can sling mud at the other for this??

The only conclusion I can come to is that there's a serious lack of independent thought.

I mean how can you overlook extra marital affairs and charges of rape on one side but try and use them as a millstone on the other?

More than anything it points to the rank hypocrisy evident throughout this election.

Pro Hoc Vice

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Why with the personal attacks? Trump is attacked way more than Hillary. It is unreal. Nobody brings up why she never dumped Clinton after his sexual relations. Not worth going after IMO yet they continue to pursue this line against Trump that he is some sort of sexual beast. This is ugly ugly stuff. Bill was called slick willy for Christ sake. Where do suppose he got that nickname from? Hardly from sitting at home with his wife and a good book.

So a women takes her vow seriously and you knock her.

gosplan

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Why with the personal attacks? Trump is attacked way more than Hillary. It is unreal. Nobody brings up why she never dumped Clinton after his sexual relations. Not worth going after IMO yet they continue to pursue this line against Trump that he is some sort of sexual beast. This is ugly ugly stuff. Bill was called slick willy for Christ sake. Where do suppose he got that nickname from? Hardly from sitting at home with his wife and a good book.

He has a serious chip on his shoulder. Anyone that needs to see themselves beside young women and name things after themselves clearly has a problem with how people perceive them.

He's not comfortable, deep down he's insecure.

I'm not trying to be insulting, just an observation.

The small hands bit was a joke.


For me though the biggest joke of the whole campaign is trumps approach to the truth.

gosplan

gosplan wrote: »

I fail to see how one side can sling mud at the other for this??

The only conclusion I can come to is that there's a serious lack of independent thought.

I mean how can you overlook extra marital affairs and charges of rape on one side but try and use them as a millstone on the other?

More than anything it points to the rank hypocrisy evident throughout this election.

I'd actually like to ask this as an open question to anyone using the fact that trump is on rape charges or Bill clintons past.

Please explain the difference.

Amerika

gosplan wrote: »

I fail to see how one side can sling mud at the other for this??

The only conclusion I can come to is that there's a serious lack of independent thought.

I mean how can you overlook extra marital affairs and charges of rape on one side but try and use them as a millstone on the other?

More than anything it points to the rank hypocrisy evident throughout this election.

You obviously don't understand our media. These types of things only warrant full-out war against a candidate if he/she has an (R) behind their name. Sexual misdeeds, and those enabling them, for someone with a (D) only warrant a cursory mention on page 12 at best, and then never talked about again unless forced to by social media.

Overheal

Back to racist rhetoric, and the Trump Effect...

It would appear according to campus police that we've had a visit from the KKK. They distributed recruitment materials across campus and in local townships.

CUPD investigating incidents

On three separate occasions this past week, Clemson students were subjected to racial slurs and other inappropriate conduct while walking on our campus. Due to two of the incidents being reported immediately, Clemson University Police Department (CUPD) officers were able to stop and identify the individuals responsible for this conduct. Those individuals are not affiliated with Clemson University. In coordination with the Thirteenth Judicial Circuit Solicitor's Office, the appropriate action was taken to deter these individuals from repeating conduct of this nature on our campus.

We take such racially motivated remarks and/or acts toward our students extremely seriously, and such conduct directed at anyone in our community runs counter to Clemson's values.

Additionally, last Friday night, several clear zip lock sandwich bags containing KKK recruitment flyers weighted by small gravel, rice, or dried beans were placed at various roadways and parking lots on our campus. These appear to have been dropped from a moving vehicle. This was not an isolated event on our campus as this type of activity was also reported on that same night in other parts of Oconee County. We are in contact with local, state and federal law enforcement partners concerning this matter and it remains an ongoing investigation.

CUPD has increased our patrols of campus areas that are heavily used by students and will remain vigilant in our efforts to keep Clemson a safe and secure learning environment.

Please report any information on these or similar incidents on our campus to CUPD (911 or 864-656-2222) or through the Rave CU Guardian free mobile safety app found at https://www.clemson.edu/cusafety/cupd/rave-guardian/

Issued by Clemson University Media Relations in cooperation with the Clemson University Police Department
For additional information, contact CUPD:

...

Billy86

gosplan wrote: »

I fail to see how one side can sling mud at the other for this??

The only conclusion I can come to is that there's a serious lack of independent thought.

I mean how can you overlook extra marital affairs and charges of rape on one side but try and use them as a millstone on the other?

More than anything it points to the rank hypocrisy evident throughout this election.

Yep, that about sums it up - probably why Clinton has avoided it. Hasn't stopped Trumps 'go broke or die trying' campaign though. Then again that's hardly surprising, almost everything he and his fanboys throw at Clinton is just as if not more applicable to him.

But they're detached from the reality of the situation, hence why they'll be fuming.

KingBrian2

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

So a women takes her vow seriously and you knock her.

I'm pointing out how the media target Trump for his remarks made while they don't trouble to bring up how she forgave Bill for behaving just like him. If Bill is good enough for Hillary why not Trump good enough for the country. Trump did say he was embarrassed by those comments and by all accounts he is a good father and husband. This topic distracts from the policies they need talking about. Sexual activity by two adults. This is not a teen romance.

gosplan

Amerika wrote: »

You obviously don't understand our media. These types of things only warrant full-out war against a candidate if he/she has an (R) behind their name. Sexual misdeeds, and those enabling them, for someone with a (D) only warrant a cursory mention on page 12 at best, and then never talked about again unless forced to by social media.

Forget the media. I want to know how individual posters do it.

Billy86

Posted this in the debate thread by accident, it's more suited to the race itself... and it's not good reading for the Trumpettes.



"But but but... the big meanie 'mainstream media' (which includes FOX don't forget!) and their facts and reality are such meanies that I don't want to listen, so I'll retreat to my 'safe spaces' like Rasmussen. They know the truth!" shout the Trump fans. Well yeah, about that...

Pro Hoc Vice

KingBrian2 wrote: »

I'm pointing out how the media target Trump for his remarks made while they don't trouble to bring up how she forgave Bill for behaving just like him. If Bill is good enough for Hillary why not Trump good enough for the country. Trump did say he was embarrassed by those comments and by all accounts he is a good father and husband. This topic distracts from the policies they need talking about. Sexual activity by two adults. This is not a teen romance.

If trump in a position of power wanted to grab your mothers pussy how would you react.

And again Bill Clinton is not running for election and he was torn a new one by the media when he dipped his wick.

gosplan

KingBrian2 wrote: »

I'm pointing out how the media target Trump for his remarks made while they don't trouble to bring up how she forgave Bill for behaving just like him. If Bill is good enough for Hillary why not Trump good enough for the country. Trump did say he was embarrassed by those comments and by all accounts he is a good father and husband. This topic distracts from the policies they need talking about. Sexual activity by two adults. This is not a teen romance.

In fairness Brisn you have to appreciate that the Trump stuff is breaking news about the current (most controversial) candidate (ever) whereas the Bill Clinton stuff is old news about the husband of the other candidate.

Overheal

TheDoctor wrote: »

Clinton ahead in Arizona.

Arizona!!!!

I've been watching that for the last week or so, Arizona went from a close but relatively certain red state, to a swing state split down the middle, and now with recent performances and McCain revoking his endorsement, unless Trump or the GOP puts down a major ground effort in AZ, it's going to flip blue in the Presidential race.

That said, The probabilities are that Trump would have to secure every swing state at this point, and still have to go in and take some blue states too to win this. Not enough time, the absentees have already begun voting, 1 month to go.

(source: FiveThirtyEight.com)