2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

oik

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Yeah, some real good ones; http://europe.newsweek.com/vladimir-putin-sidney-blumenthal-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-benghazi-sputnik-508635?rm=eu

TL;DR

oik

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

O'Keefe is a charlatan and a convicted criminal who creates deceptively edited videos that are absolute bull****.

Judge the video on its own merits.

TheDoctor

Amerika wrote: »

Okay. But what's your point? This is about a person running for public office and the strategy her campaign uses to combat her perception of the people she is supposed to represent. You don't think it's relevant, or is it just because it came out against Hillary, and not Trump?

My point is its all third party "dirt". When you can just quote the Donald directly for his issues.

gosplan

You can see the experience of HRC here. So much digging going on and she hasn't left anything with her personal stamp on it. That whole hammer phone server thing was smart,

gosplan

oik wrote: »

Judge the video on its own merits.

Yeah, just watch it and go with whatever you feel. That's what politics is all about.

Who cares about accuracy?

Amerika

gosplan wrote: »

You can see the experience of HRC here. So much digging going on and she hasn't left anything with her personal stamp on it. That whole hammer phone server thing was smart,

She outnixoned Nixon, eh? Smart!

oik

gosplan wrote: »

Yeah, just watch it and go with whatever you feel. That's what politics is all about.

Who cares about accuracy?

Tell me how it's inaccurate

TheDoctor

Its only smart if she doesn't end up the same way Nixon did.

TheDoctor

The Donald on course for the biggest beating since Bob Dole.

What a clown of a man.

Christy42

Amerika wrote: »

Absolutely. Those that represent 99% of America.

So, who do you think she'll blame this time for her problems? Abe Lincoln, the Russians, or maybe someone new like George Washington. She hasn't used him yet.

Right it has been established that you are likely misreading the email but you also seem much less worried when it is Trump insulting segments of the us population. Or is it just when you identify with the particular demographic that you disagree with the insult?

TheDoctor

Amerika wrote: »

Absolutely. Those that represent 99% of America.

So, who do you think she'll blame this time for her problems? Abe Lincoln, the Russians, or maybe someone new like George Washington. She hasn't used him yet.

What problems? She's about to be the next president of the US?

dwayneshintzy

oik wrote: »

Judge the video on its own merits.

There's no merit in his or his organisation's videos, they can't be trusted; http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/05/30/james-okeefe-accidentally-stings-himself

oik

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

There's no merit in his or his organisation's videos, they can't be trusted; http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/05/30/james-okeefe-accidentally-stings-himself

The video should be judged on its own merit. You can look at it with all the scepticism you like, but there is content in there which clearly isn't fabricated. Your response seems like flailing.

TheDoctor

oik wrote: »

The video should be judged on its own merit. You can look at it with all the scepticism you like, but there is content in there which clearly isn't fabricated. Your response seems like flailing.

The only think that's flailing is Trumps car crash of a presidential campaign.

oik

Here we go lads. No dispute as to the video's authenticity.

http://nypost.com/2016/10/11/elections-official-caught-on-video-blasting-de-blasios-id-program/

Reached Monday night, Schulkin defended his videotaped remarks, with slight revisions.

“I should have said ‘potential fraud’ instead of ‘fraud,’ ” he said.

But he reiterated his support for a voter ID requirement.

He recalled a woman asking him a lot of questions the night he was recorded.

“She was like a nuisance. I was just trying to placate her,” he said.

The board has two commissioners — one Democrat, one Republican — from each borough.

Amerika

Christy42 wrote: »

Right it has been established that you are likely misreading the email but you also seem much less worried when it is Trump insulting segments of the us population. Or is it just when you identify with the particular demographic that you disagree with the insult?

They're both undesirable. (Happy?)

Therefore, it comes down to who has the best economic policies for America. Trump wins on that count, hands down.

gosplan

Amerika wrote: »

She outnixoned Nixon, eh? Smart!

Yeah, it was.

Think Trump wouldn't have deleted the tape from the other day and whatever apprentice thing is going to come out.

I'm not saying it was acceptable but from Hillary's point of view it was a smart move.

oik

Amerika wrote: »

They're both undesirable. (Happy?)

Therefore, it comes down who has the best economic policies for America. Trump wins on that count, hands down.

Hillary's saving grace is that her private policy is probably much better than her public policy.

oik

gosplan wrote: »

Think Trump wouldn't have deleted the tape from the other day and whatever apprentice thing is going to come out..

Deleting an audio recording of yourself is not the same as deleting evidence under subpoena. Not that Trump did either.

Amerika

oik wrote: »

Deleting an audio recording of yourself is not the same as deleting evidence under subpoena. Not that Trump did either.

Bazinga!

But, please, oh please, ignore the elephant in the room. :rolleyes:

dwayneshintzy

oik wrote: »

The video should be judged on its own merit. You can look at it with all the scepticism you like, but there is content in there which clearly isn't fabricated. Your response seems like flailing.

So you consider the video to be incontrovertible proof that Democrats committed electoral fraud in local elections in New York? To say I'm "flailing" is a bit much to be honest, you're linking to a man who has literally been convicted of crimes related to previous "stings".

Did you read The New Yorker article?

TheDoctor

oik wrote: »

Deleting an audio recording of yourself is not the same as deleting evidence under subpoena. Not that Trump did either.

No he just went down the route of being a racist, pervert and being a sexual predator.

oik

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

So you consider the video to be incontrovertible proof that Democrats committed electoral fraud in local elections in New York? To say I'm "flailing" is a bit much to be honest, you're linking to a man who has literally been convicted of crimes related to previous "stings".

Did you read The New Yorker article?

I'm well aware of O'Keefe's record and was before this video was even released.

I don't consider it incontrovertible proof, it doesn't need to be.

You have just set that as a ridiculous standard because it gives you a disingenuous way out of accepting the implications of it.

It's proof that it's possible and in my view if voter fraud is possible it's probable, considering the stakes that are at play here.

dwayneshintzy

There has never been any evidence of voter fraud on anything approaching a significant scale by either the Democrats or the Republicans in any recent national or state election.

oik

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

There has never been any evidence of voter fraud on anything approaching a significant scale by either the Democrats or the Republicans in any recent national or state election.

There's an interesting caveat.

For anyone with an open mind:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/438754/james-okeefe-voter-fraud-videos-prove-voter-frauds-real

Amerika

TheDoctor wrote: »

No he just went down the route of being a racist, pervert and being a sexual predator.

Saul Alinsky’s 12 Rules for Radicals

RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)

dwayneshintzy

oik wrote: »

For anyone with an open mind:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/438754/james-okeefe-voter-fraud-videos-prove-voter-frauds-real

Cool; some more here;

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/20/opinion/the-success-of-the-voter-fraud-myth.html
https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/voter-fraud
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/09/01/voter-fraud-is-not-a-persistent-problem/?utm_term=.64df4b4908e4
http://mediamatters.org/video/2016/08/04/cnn-voter-fraud-expert-debunks-myths-behind-strict-voter-id-laws/212181
http://www.scholarsstrategynetwork.org/brief/misleading-myth-voter-fraud-american-elections
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/10/29/the-voter-fraud-myth
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/03/voter-fraud-laws-gop-minority-voters-elections

oik

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Cool; some more here;

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/20/opinion/the-success-of-the-voter-fraud-myth.html
https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/voter-fraud
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/09/01/voter-fraud-is-not-a-persistent-problem/?utm_term=.64df4b4908e4
http://mediamatters.org/video/2016/08/04/cnn-voter-fraud-expert-debunks-myths-behind-strict-voter-id-laws/212181
http://www.scholarsstrategynetwork.org/brief/misleading-myth-voter-fraud-american-elections
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/10/29/the-voter-fraud-myth
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/03/voter-fraud-laws-gop-minority-voters-elections

They all define "myth" as something that happens but not very often. And not NEARLY as much as black people not having IDs.

Very strange definition of myth.

And they're all reading off the same hymn sheet, a the Brennan Centre. Try varying your sources.

TheDoctor

Amerika wrote: »

Saul Alinsky’s 12 Rules for Radicals

RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)

Was he talking about Donald here? Sums him up perfectly.

Amerika

TheDoctor wrote: »

Was he talking about Donald here? Sums him up perfectly.

It was a response to your post. Sums it up perfectly.

TheDoctor

Amerika wrote: »

It was a response to your post. Sums it up perfectly.

Would have made more sense talking about a man who ridicules:

- Mexicans
- Women
- Black communities
- Hispanics
- Immigrants
- Disabled reporters
- Moderators/judges he doesn't agree with
- Political opponents illnesses

etc.

Saul Alinsky’s 12 Rules for Radicals

RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.

Trump summed up perfectly.

Brian?

Amerika wrote: »

Saul Alinsky’s 12 Rules for Radicals

RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)

Lying Ted. Crooked Hillary. Little Marco. Disparage Fiorina's looks. And the list goes on.

TheDoctor

Great addition that comment to the thread Amerika.
Great summation of Trump. Don't have any others to add?

oik

TheDoctor wrote: »

Would have made more sense talking about a man who ridicules:

- Mexicans
- Women
- Black communities
- Hispanics
- Immigrants
- Disabled reporters
- Moderators/judges he doesn't agree with
- Political opponents illnesses

etc.

Saul Alinsky’s 12 Rules for Radicals

RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.

Trump summed up perfectly.

Butchering the definition of ridicule here

oik

Brian? wrote: »

Lying Ted. Crooked Hillary. Little Marco. Disparage Fiorina's looks. And the list goes on.

Now that is an example of ridicule, and also effective branding.

aloyisious

With all this debating about H's Emails and the subpoena/s, does anyone know if the acknowledged deletions were done before or after the subpoenas were served, or was the subpoena issued only when people became aware of H's use of a possibly insecure non-Govt server? It seem's that at least two bodies served subpoenas looking for the emails. The House seem's to be pursuing the matter via the FBI investigation into H's Email server.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjNx9jskNPPAhVDKcAKHVD4DhYQFggoMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.breitbart.com%2Fbig-government%2F2016%2F09%2F12%2Fhouse-oversight-chair-chaffetz-issues-subpoena-fbi-clinton-email-investigation-documents%2F&usg=AFQjCNHE3ysQ0OmN-t_KRPC1D6BoMhQVeA

TheDoctor

oik wrote: »

Butchering the definition of ridicule here

Someone who shows contemptuous and dismissive language or behaviour.

Think I hit the nail on the head there with that list.

TheDoctor

oik wrote: »

Now that is an example of ridicule, and also effective branding.

Not that effective. He's getting absolutely shafted by Clinton in this election.

Loser Donald

gosplan

TheDoctor wrote: »

Someone who shows contemptuous and dismissive language or behaviour.

Think I hit the nail on the head there with that list.

Bah, get out of here with your facts and accurate definitions.

TheDoctor

gosplan wrote: »

Bah, get out of here with your facts and accurate definitions.

Fair enough, facts and accuracy doesn't really fit with discussing the Trump campaign.

Sure he still thinks he was against the war in Iraq before it started.

gosplan

TheDoctor wrote: »

Fair enough, facts and accuracy doesn't really fit with discussing the Trump campaign.

Sure he still thinks he was against the war in Iraq before it started.

Ah but he was, he whispered it to Sean Hannity (the trump lover from the somehow anti-trump fox????) once.

This of course takes precedence over the real time he said it in the real world.

Facts are such a problem for Trump.

I have so little respect for people that peddle his crap. Fine to say 'I really hate HRC' but don't come on here saying 'the media is against trump' or 'he never said that' or 'loads of people brag about sexual assault'. Like you may as well be talking about your favourite wrestler.

Grow a brain!

Anyone figure out the spending cuts yet? 9tn less in revenues so where are the spending cuts coming from?

KingBrian2

Hillary might be less unpopular than Trump but on policies she is a disgrace. She is a war monger. On the debate the other night it all but became apparent that Obamacare was going very badly. The reason being is she will have to rely on taxing more Americans to pay for it. The problem though is it is a substandard program like our old Eastern health board that we used to have.

When you actually look at the fine details you realize how far short it falls when you judge from 2008 the public wanted universal health care that was affordable not Obamacare. As we see that just is not possible and this is important for a society. If people can't afford health care you get an increase in violent behavior. Demos & protests start up demanding better services.

I am no expert on American health care only from the audiences questions and it shows that Obamacare has not been this major improvement to American health that we were all sold.

oik

TheDoctor wrote: »

Not that effective. He's getting absolutely shafted by Clinton in this election.

Loser Donald

There's more to elections than branding.

TheDoctor

Have a good evening everyone. Just 4 more weeks of fun.

gosplan

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Hillary might be less unpopular than Trump but on policies she is a disgrace. She is a war monger. On the debate the other night it all but became apparent that Obamacare was going very badly. The reason being is she will have to rely on taxing more Americans to pay for it. The problem though is it is a substandard program like our old Eastern health board that we used to have.

When you actually look at the fine details you realize how far short it falls when you judge from 2008 the public wanted universal health care that was affordable not Obamacare. As we see that just is not possible and this is important for a society. If people can't afford health care you get an increase in violent behavior. Demos & protests start up demanding better services.

I am no expert on American health care only from the audiences questions and it shows that Obamacare has not been this major improvement to American health that we were all sold.

Yeah she was pretty weak on that I thought.

The problem though is that all Trump could say is 'amazing plans'. They're gonna be 'such amazing plans'.

And then somehow that increased competition would get companies to insure bad cases.

It's a clear area if strength for Trump, tying her to anything dysfunctional in the last 10-20 years. But he should really be able to hammer home on what he'll do rather than just give poorly thought out generalisms.

oik

gosplan wrote: »

Ah but he was, he whispered it to Sean Hannity (the trump lover from the somehow anti-trump fox????) once.

This of course takes precedence over the real time he said it in the real world.

Facts are such a problem for Trump.

I have so little respect for people that peddle his crap. Fine to say 'I really hate HRC' but don't come on here saying 'the media is against trump' or 'he never said that' or 'loads of people brag about sexual assault'. Like you may as well be talking about your favourite wrestler.

Grow a brain!

Anyone figure out the spending cuts yet? 9tn less in revenues so where are the spending cuts coming from?

You're throwing around figures you don't understand.

That 9.5tn is assuming no broadening of the tax base or economic growth and it's also over the course of 10 years, not a single financial year.

You're not going to get answers unless you start asking the right questions.

gosplan

oik wrote: »

You're throwing around figures you don't understand.

That 9.5tn is assuming no broadening of the tax base or economic growth and it's also over the course of 10 years, not a single financial year.

You're not going to get answers unless you start asking the right questions.

I know.

So you're saying no spending cuts.

oik

aloyisious wrote: »

With all this debating about H's Emails and the subpoena/s, does anyone know if the acknowledged deletions were done before or after the subpoenas were served, or was the subpoena issued only when people became aware of H's use of a possibly insecure non-Govt server? It seem's that at least two bodies served subpoenas looking for the emails. The House seem's to be pursuing the matter via the FBI investigation into H's Email server.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjNx9jskNPPAhVDKcAKHVD4DhYQFggoMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.breitbart.com%2Fbig-government%2F2016%2F09%2F12%2Fhouse-oversight-chair-chaffetz-issues-subpoena-fbi-clinton-email-investigation-documents%2F&usg=AFQjCNHE3ysQ0OmN-t_KRPC1D6BoMhQVeA

Look up Stonetear, the redditor who was also Clinton's IT guy who asked reddit about deleting or tampering with emails.

People on 4chan or reddit sent it to Trey Gowdy and others and they subpoena'ed reddit for his post history.

Dunno about the latest developments, but I saw the original posts and they were very damning. There should be enough info in this post for you to find the story yourself as I'm on my phone.

oik

gosplan wrote: »

I know.

So you're saying no spending cuts.

He'll need spending cuts if he's to balance the budget.

You need to understand that the president doesn't control the budget. Congress does.

His policies are a list of demands from congress and it's up to them to negotiate a reasonable compromise.

gosplan

oik wrote: »

He'll need spending cuts if he's to balance the budget.

You need to understand that the president doesn't control the budget. Congress does.

His policies are a list of demands from congress and it's up to them to negotiate a reasonable compromise.

I get that.

Trump lays out a vision and congress takes it from there.

I just don't think the overall plan is any good.

The growth he's looking for will never be created by just cutting taxes.

He needs America to go through a boom.