2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

oik

gosplan wrote: »

I get that.

Trump lays out a vision and congress takes it from there.

I just don't think the overall plan is any good.

The growth he's looking for will never be created by just cutting taxes.

He needs America to go through a boom.

Well some of his proposals are almost lifted directly from the Bowles Simpson report which Bill Clinton himself endorsed.

gosplan

oik wrote: »

Well some of his proposals are almost lifted directly from the Bowles Simpson report which Bill Clinton himself endorsed.

So Bill is good now?

gosplan

oik wrote: »

Well some of his proposals are almost lifted directly from the Bowles Simpson report which Bill Clinton himself endorsed.

So Bill is good now?

oik

gosplan wrote: »

So Bill is good now?

I think Bill was a good president.

He's also a bit of a monster but what can you do.

gosplan

oik wrote: »

I think Bill was a good president.

He's also a bit of a monster but what can you do.

One of the first things he was reverse trickle down economics.

K-9

Mod:

Folks, deep breaths!

Up the standard of posts, 1 person already got a ban today and if the thread keeps going the way it's going, there'll be a few more going on a break.

oik

gosplan wrote: »

One of the first things he was reverse trickle down economics.

Meaningless propaganda term.


Clinton recommended reducing corporation tax to 20% in 2012.

He specifically said that US headquartered companies had 1.6 trillion dollars abroad that they would bring home if the corporation tax was lowered.

daithi7

This election is now effectively over, since the revelations of last week (I.e.the cringe worthy Trump grope video & audio) & the subsequent bad mannered, frazzled & ugly presidential debate, I think it's pretty clear to anyone with a hint of a brain that this is now Clinton's election to lose.

She is not a great candidate, experienced and capable yes, but old (her health may well become an issue during her tenure) and distinctly lacking in integrity, empathy & vision. She is a hard core cynical career politician, who is part of the establishment of two families who have close to a duopoly hegemony over the top office in the land for the best part of 30 years now. (Obamas 8 years aside) But she is what we are getting now, for better or worse.

What concerns me most at this stage is because this campaign has been so negative and viciously personal that her actual policies have not been subject to an intelligent and rigorous opposition, who were proposing alternative and potentially better ones in their place. Instead we have got a very dirty, bad mannered, personality contest with shouting and name calling being the order of the day for candidates, backed up by all the cynical and dirty political practices in the book....and maybe even coming up with a few new ones.

How this will produce the best President possible for the USA and leader of the western world I am at a loss to figure out. Here's hoping...... but the realistic outcome is likely to be a damaged presidency, a flawed leader and not a good outcome for the USA, or the Western world, sorry.

oik

For those thinking this is the most ridiculous election ever.

Does no one remember Big Bird?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z29RjDRhHyE

Amerika

Here’s a public service announcement for just about everyone here... if they’re looking to pick up some extra money. It appears Hillary Clinton’s campaign is paying money for an army of Astroturf ‘Outrage Machine’ to flood social media in order to counteract negative news About Hillary Clinton. Hmmm, I have a sneaking suspicion we may already have some of them here.

https://stream.org/astroturf-outrage-machine-of-paid-trolls-floods-social-media-to-counteract-negative-news-about-hillary-clinton/

Amerika

I just can’t resist... but this video is just too funny to ignore, and adds a little levity to a very stressful election (hope it wasn’t already posted by someone).

Billy86

This campaign has seriously turned into the worst case of 'sore losers' that I have ever seen, not just in elections but all the way down to children's sports events. I'm not saying that to be glib, smug or whatever else... this genuinely is the most pathetic list of desperate reaches I have ever seen anywhere, ever. What is most amazing is the sheer tone-deafness of it all, if the actual Republican party were to have gone down the same route in the last 4-5 days as reality has set it, they would be fast on their way to extinction, and to being it being the first time in 87 years that either party held absolutely zero branches of government (White House, House of Reps, Senate, Supreme Court).

At least for their sake, the Republicans have had the sense to react in time and almost surely save themselves in the House, and possibly the Senate too (that's a toss up as things stand).

The childish entitlement is unlike anything I've ever seen, as I said from presidential elections all the way down to junior infants egg and spoon races.

gosplan

I reckon the don's a democrat sleeper agent.

ECO_Mental

Did anybody see Ben Carson just on CNN trying to defend the Trump .....OMG.....car crash tv unbelivable. He was talking to a woman host and he was just digging and digging holes for him self. For example to the woman host

Carson "its your fault for not hearing any of this locker room talk before"

carson" i hear that type of talk all the time"

Host " where do hear this"

Carson " emmm emm emmm!!!!"

I though he was going to get up and walk out because that was the only option for him, and he should have.

The host was almost laughing at first at the stupidity but when he blamed "her" for not hearing that type of talk before, for not him being in the studio and in a video link i think she would have hit him!

This is the problem now for the Donald and i can see where Paul Ryan is comming from, there is no defending the remarks and if you do you will be seen to be complacient and it will ruin your career...

Overheal

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Carson "its your fault for not hearing any of this locker room talk before"

carson" i hear that type of talk all the time"

Host " where do hear this"

Carson " emmm emm emmm!!!!"

I though he was going to get up and walk out because that was the only option for him, and he should have

wouldnt be the first time

Itssoeasy

I see that hell has slightly frozen over and Glen beck has called Hilary Clinton an ethical and moral choice for president.

ECO_Mental

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I see that hell has slightly frozen over and Glen beck has called Hilary Clinton an ethical and moral choice for president.

Thats is it....i must be living in the Matrix!

ebbsy

gosplan wrote: »

oik wrote: »

Well some of his proposals are almost lifted directly from the Bowles Simpson report which Bill Clinton himself endorsed.

So Bill is good now?

Apart from the abusing women bit he's not the worst.

oik

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Did anybody see Ben Carson just on CNN trying to defend the Trump .....OMG.....car crash tv unbelivable. He was talking to a woman host and he was just digging and digging holes for him self. For example to the woman host

Carson "its your fault for not hearing any of this locker room talk before"

carson" i hear that type of talk all the time"

Host " where do hear this"

Carson " emmm emm emmm!!!!"

I though he was going to get up and walk out because that was the only option for him, and he should have.

The host was almost laughing at first at the stupidity but when he blamed "her" for not hearing that type of talk before, for not him being in the studio and in a video link i think she would have hit him!

This is the problem now for the Donald and i can see where Paul Ryan is comming from, there is no defending the remarks and if you do you will be seen to be complacient and it will ruin your career...

I wish they would leave sleepy Ben alone. Even Trump's not defending his comments.

It's not surprising CNN keeping it going after the debate didn't exactly go as planned.

They're probably thinking they need to cover it another few days before people get the message.

gosplan

oik wrote: »

I wish they would leave sleepy Ben alone. Even Trump's not defending his comments.

It's not surprising CNN keeping it going after the debate didn't exactly go as planned.

They're probably thinking they need to cover it another few days before people get the message.

Hey just answered that so badly in the debate tbh.

Should have figured out some way to put it to bed. 'That was a long time ago, I was in Hollywood for the day, lost the run of myself etc'

Instead he said 'locker room talk' and within 15 seconds was talking about ISIS chopping off heads.

I think people still don't accept the gravity of a presidential candidate bragging about sexual assault.

People don't buy the locker room talk thing because it's not true.

Trying to minimise it was a mistake.

Billy86

Far from the worst Apprentice related stuff we're likely to see in the next few weeks but here's a video of Trump firing someone for 'locker room talk'.

oik

Billy86 wrote: »

Far from the worst Apprentice related stuff we're likely to see in the next few weeks but here's a video of Trump firing someone for 'locker room talk'.

You know it's not real, right?

RobertKK

Wikileaks put a link to an article which was very interesting.

Wikileaks published a John Podesta email (Podesta is the campaign manager for Hillary).
Sputnik a news agency iin Russia said the email was by Blumenthal when it was Podesta.
Sputnik later removed the online article after they realised they had published false information.
Trump's campaign used the story by Sputnik.
Clinton's people and media in the US that is friendly towards Hillary said Wikileaks were publishing doctored emails by Russia and that the emails released by Wikileaks should not be believed as they are lies.

Wikileaks were not happy about what Sputnik's article in Russia led to, or the fact the media in the US have worked hard to protect Hillary and publish lies about them.

Wikileaks posted a link to an article which had criticism for Hillary, Trump, the US media and the Clinton campaign people.

I find this disturbing as it says what sort of presidency we will get from Clinton and it is not good.
The best thing would be if John Podesta's UFO's would come to Earth, beam up both Trump and Hillary Clinton and hopefully something better would replace them, but it looks like we will be stuck with Hillary...
Everything is Russia's fault with Hillary.

https://theintercept.com/2016/10/11/in-the-democratic-echo-chamber-inconvenient-truths-are-recast-as-putin-plots/

aloyisious

I was wondering when he'd vent his anger at his party colleagues......

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-declares-war-on-the-republican-party-four-weeks-before-election-day/2016/10/11/93b21dc4-8fc9-11e6-9c52-0b10449e33c4_story.html

The following link cover's what seem to be tweets by Don about the GOP and it's senior members...... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/11/donald-trump-is-blowing-up-the-republican-party/

gosplan

aloyisious wrote: »

I was wondering when he'd vent his anger at his party colleagues......

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-declares-war-on-the-republican-party-four-weeks-before-election-day/2016/10/11/93b21dc4-8fc9-11e6-9c52-0b10449e33c4_story.html

The following link cover's what seem to be tweets by Don about the GOP and it's senior members...... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/11/donald-trump-is-blowing-up-the-republican-party/

It's now becoming about a full scale takeover of the party.

The campaign is lost but Trump's going nowhere.

Billy86

aloyisious wrote: »

I was wondering when he'd vent his anger at his party colleagues......

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-declares-war-on-the-republican-party-four-weeks-before-election-day/2016/10/11/93b21dc4-8fc9-11e6-9c52-0b10449e33c4_story.html

The following link cover's what seem to be tweets by Don about the GOP and it's senior members...... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/11/donald-trump-is-blowing-up-the-republican-party/

I know he owns a few courses, but someone really does need to tell him that electoral college voting is not scored in the same way as golf.

aloyisious

I'd seen mention in this thread about voting taking place already and reference was made to elections for other positions and electoral colleges. It seem's that there is an increase in US citizens applying for absentee ballots and some have already posted their's in. It's like postal votes which are reserved for people on foreign trip or service who won't be at their electoral-register home address on the day. Edit: however, as this is a newspaper story, it may not tell all the story....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-religious-right-makes-a-deal-with-the-devil/2016/10/11/d0783e44-8fd5-11e6-9c85-ac42097b8cc0_story.html

InTheTrees

Bad Lip Reading's version of the first debate. Its pretty funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLYHu0AG8GI

Billy86

During the debate, a few Trump fans were jumping up and down about how his odds got a tiny bit shorter and how this was proof he was winning.

Before Pussygate, Clinton was 1/3 on most markets. Before the debate, she was 1/4. Now...

(blue indicates someone's odds getting shorter; red indicates their odds getting longer)


Damn left wing biased gambling conspiracy! :mad:

Feline Grabber

Trump is at it again, a coincidence where he parroted info from Russia. Didn't he fire the guy being paid by Russia or is he around in another role? Trump's campaign really need to find info from somewhere other than browsing Russian and white supremacist sources (not that they are mutually exclusive)
edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/10/11/kurt-eichenwald-benghazi-article-russia-donald-trump-intv-newday.cnn

BorneTobyWilde

Americans love big meals and thick cheese slices but I still believe that Trump can make
America grate again.

oik

Feline Grabber wrote: »

Trump is at it again, a coincidence where he parroted info from Russia. Didn't he fire the guy being paid by Russia or is he around in another role? Trump's campaign really need to find info from somewhere other than browsing Russian and white supremacist sources (not that they are mutually exclusive)
edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/10/11/kurt-eichenwald-benghazi-article-russia-donald-trump-intv-newday.cnn

Eichenwald is a dishonest Clinton shill spreading unsubstantiated lies about Wikileaks authenticity.

https://theintercept.com/2016/10/11/in-the-democratic-echo-chamber-inconvenient-truths-are-recast-as-putin-plots/

Overheal

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Did anybody see Ben Carson just on CNN trying to defend the Trump .....OMG.....car crash tv unbelivable. He was talking to a woman host and he was just digging and digging holes for him self. For example to the woman host

Carson "its your fault for not hearing any of this locker room talk before"

carson" i hear that type of talk all the time"

Host " where do hear this"

Carson " emmm emm emmm!!!!"

I though he was going to get up and walk out because that was the only option for him, and he should have.

The host was almost laughing at first at the stupidity but when he blamed "her" for not hearing that type of talk before, for not him being in the studio and in a video link i think she would have hit him!

This is the problem now for the Donald and i can see where Paul Ryan is comming from, there is no defending the remarks and if you do you will be seen to be complacient and it will ruin your career...

Here's the clip from earlier

http://www.mediaite.com/online/ben-carson-tells-cnns-brianna-keilar-she-hasnt-heard-enough-crude-sexual-talk/

Look how much older he is without the Rogaine

Black Swan

Trump Titanic is a metaphor I've encountered surfing the web, referring to last Friday's groping tape disclosure. I wonder if there is any merit to this metaphor? Such metacognitive devices are often used to foster discussion (see Gareth Morgan, Images of Organisation, 1998). You decide its value.

Trump Titanic was at flank speed, the largest and most impressively built ship of its day, surpassing all others, but with serious design flaws. Then Trump Titanic unexpectedly hit Groping Iceberg, coming to a sudden stop. Many GOPs sent SOS, and manned lifeboats, along with suburban college women fleeing to the boats, while holding their children's ears from hearing the horrific "groping" sounds of Trump Titanic's bulkheads breaking away. Captain Trump cried "Don't abandon ship, we won't sink! 100% safe!" while the Trumpeters continued to play on a deck that began to list and break apart. The few GOPs that stayed aboard with Captain Trump cried for the lifeboats to return, but too late, as the ship slowly upended and began to slip below the surface. Remaining GOPs and Captain Trump clinging to each other jumped into the ocean only to be eaten by Stop Trump GOP sharks and Clinton killer whales, or slowly turning to ice by the groper chilled voter waters, disappearing 8 November 2016.

Itssoeasy

I've seen a clip from Fox News last night where mike huckerbee used jaws as an analogy to the election where he said quint was the guy who killed the shark.

Megyn Kelly to be honest took pleasure telling him that quint died and didn't live.

Also apparently Megyn Kelly's contract with Fox News is up next year and I get the impression she has decided F it and isn't sticking to the script.

BorneTobyWilde

Tape is old news now.
No one cares
He really is amazing at changing subject

Billy86

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Tape is old news now.
No one cares
He really is amazing at changing subject

Damning as they are now, let's see how these guys look at the end of the week.

Itssoeasy

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Tape is old news now.
No one cares
He really is amazing at changing subject

Ah the speaker of the us House of Representatives seems to care and he's a high ranking member of the GOP.

Also a good strategy for trump supporters would be to stop going on news channels and trying to defend the tape as I've seen at least three where the person is doing more harm than good.

Quin_Dub

GOP in Serious trouble...

House Democrats believe Trump troubles give them real shot at retaking majority

Fresh internal polls conducted by the DCCC — the House Democrats’ campaign arm — after the second presidential debate on Sunday night painted a grim picture for Republican lawmakers.

They show that Republicans — who started moving en masse against Trump after the revelations in the videotape — faced a backlash regardless of whether they continued to support Trump or not. On Monday, House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) told his colleagues in a conference call that he will no longer campaign for or defend Trump in public, but did not entirely rescind his support for the GOP presidential nominee.

Democrats think that Republicans are now stuck in the impossible position of either embracing their party’s presidential nominee and alienating swing voters critical to maintaining their hold on Congress or rejecting him and angering their base.

While a generic ballot tests shows a Democrat up by 7 points over any Republican lawmaker, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee’s poll — conducted nationwide by the Global Strategy Group — shows the Democratic candidate has a 12-point edge if the Republican recently withdrew their support from Trump. If a Republican lawmaker continues to support Trump, the private polling shows they are at a similar 12-point deficit.

Whilst the polls are conducted by the Democrats and as such taken with a grain of salt everything that's out there suggests that Trump intends to continue to lash out at everyone and anyone he feels are disrespecting him and that can only have a negative impact on the GOP all round...

Black Swan

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Tape is old news now.
No one cares

It's not over yet. The Trump groping tapes were THE infamous sensation during yesterday's (Monday 10 October 2016) daily telly talk shows (e.g., The View, etc.), many with women strongly condemning Donald Trump. Seth Meyers did a grand and humourous Closer Look, as did SNL with Baldwin impersonating Trump, and Stephen Colbert's Home Edition Late Show, who also introduced his co-host (a pussycat). Donald Trump has turned into THE comic-tragedy character of this presidential election cycle per America's most noted comedians. How can anyone take Trump seriously anymore?

oik

Black Swan wrote: »

It's not over yet. The Trump groping tapes were THE infamous sensation during yesterday's (Monday 10 October 2016) daily telly talk shows (e.g., The View, etc.), many with women strongly condemning Donald Trump. Seph Meyers did a grand and humourous Closer Look, as did SNL with Baldwin impersonating Trump, and Stephen Colbert's Home Edition Late Show, who also introduced his co-host (a pussycat). Donald Trump has turned into THE comic-tragedy character of this presidential election cycle per America's most noted comedians. How can anyone take Trump seriously anymore?

Trump was already a figure of ridicule.

Viewers of those shows have already been exposed to nothing but anti-Trump messaging.

Black Swan

oik wrote: »

Trump was already a figure of ridicule.

Viewers of those shows have already been exposed to nothing but anti-Trump messaging.

Perhaps the same can be said of Americans now replying (or soon to reply) to the national and state polls since the Friday 7 October 2016 Trump groping tapes? Or the dozens of REPUBLICAN Senators, House Representatives, and Governors un-endorsing Donald Trump since Friday, or the currently highest elected Republican (only 2 heartbeats from the presidency) Speaker of the House Paul Ryan un-inviting Donald Trump from last Saturday's Wisconsin rally? Are they now "anti-Trump" messaging too?

oik

Black Swan wrote: »

Perhaps the same can be said of Americans now replying (or soon to reply) to the national and state polls since the Friday 7 October 2016 Trump groping tapes? Or the dozens of REPUBLICAN Senators, House Representatives, and Governors un-endorsing Donald Trump since Friday, or the currently highest elected Republican (only 2 heartbeats from the presidency) Speaker of the House Paul Ryan un-inviting Donald Trump from last Saturday's Wisconsin rally? Are they now "anti-Trump" messaging too?

I think you're confused about what I meant by anti-Trump messaging.

I meant that these outlets are consistently anti-Trump and have been having a go at him since he got the nomination at least.

They're not likely to influence anyone outside of their viewership which is already anti-Trump.

BorneTobyWilde

IN polls there are so many people who will not admit to voting for Trump, they secretly will vote for him. I know many decent people who will not show any public support but will vote for him and want him to win. I'm sure McCain will also vote for him.
Polls are false because of this aspect of it .

BorneTobyWilde

Rally in Florida is massive. I can understand how Trump doesn't believe the polls.

Feline Grabber

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Rally in Florida is massive. I can understand how Trump doesn't believe the polls.

Rally numbers only come into it when the yard sign count ends in a draw.

Black Swan

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

IN polls there are so many people who will not admit to voting for Trump, they secretly will vote for him. I know many decent people who will not show any public support but will vote for him and want him to win. I'm sure McCain will also vote for him.
Polls are false because of this aspect of it .

Is there any empirical support for these observations, or just anecdotal, subjective tiny convenience sample observations by you and your friends? If anecdotal, then using similar anecdotal rationale there also could be many women in Republican families whose fathers and husbands expect their daughters and wives to vote Republican, but after the disgusting Donald Trump groping tapes, may secretly vote against Trump when in the polling booth by themselves, and without daddy or hubby looking over her shoulders? It should be noted that there were approximately 10 million more women voters in presidential election 2012 than men. Something to worry about after the Donald Trump lewd and profane groping tapes so near to 8 November 2016, especially when early voting has already begun in half of the 50 states? May the "silent majority" of women voters defeat this disgusting and totally unqualified candidate (ZERO experience in governance, US diplomacy, and preparation to be CIC, who is currently a defendant in New York and California in US District Courts for alleged "fraud, racketeering, and corruption" for failed Trump University).

Manic Moran

It's called the Bradley Effect
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect

For Trump specifically, see http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/11/opinion/campaign-stops/how-many-people-support-trump-but-dont-want-to-admit-it.html?_r=0

Trent Houseboat

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Rally in Florida is massive. I can understand how Trump doesn't believe the polls.

Do his supporters think he's doing better now? No only are the polls wrong, but they're directly inverse to his popularity?
Is it not more likely that its a Cult of personality, and his recent actions have whipped up fervor among those who already supported him?

Black Swan

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

Do his supporters think he's doing better now? No only are the polls wrong, but they're directly inverse to his popularity?
Is it not more likely that its a Cult of personality, and his recent actions have whipped up fervor among those who already supported him?

This 2016 presidential election cycle will be studied for years, which, if you are a social, behavioural, psychological, or political science PhD student or scholar across the pond, it's grand news, because the grant RFPs will fund such research, more than typical election cycles.