2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

jobbridge4life

KingBrian2 wrote: »

It would be unfair to say that only the far right engage in violence. Not saying for a moment that Trump does not attract a lot of the extreme right wingers. They gravitate towards him but violent people will behave violently regardless of being left wing or right. It is the big mistake the liberal est is making and by portraying all of Trumps fans as racists is just being condescending and reinforcing the disconnect with wider society.

I don't think anyone here or anyone with any real credibility claims violence is the preserve of those on the right, but the issue here is that in this election, right now the candidate of the right and only the candidate of the right has repeatedly called for violence, is undermining the electoral system (an ipso facto incitement to violence) and has supporters, including high profile ones, openly calling for violence.

To an extent I do sympathize with your point regarding labeling all Trump 'fans' as racist but (and without discounting the idea that they may have legitimate grievances) if they are still supporting this man they are actively in favour of a racist, bigot, fascist taking the presidency. There just isn't a work around for that.

KingBrian2

Brian? wrote: »

This is another white wash. The "liberal establishment ", whoever they are, aren't painting all Trump fans as racists.

How about we call them the neoliberals. Happy.

Overheal

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

Does it actually fit

KingBrian2

Overheal wrote: »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

Does it actually fit

Many liberals in America fit the characteristic of being neoliberal.

B_Wayne

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Many liberals in America fit the characteristic of being neoliberal.

Do you still think Trump supporters want to protect the constitution by violating the first amendment?

jobbridge4life

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Many liberals in America fit the characteristic of being neoliberal.

Many if not most of those identified as neo-liberal fall on the Republican side and whats worse they tend to coalesce with the neo-cons to produce a truly reprehensible beast.

Brian?

KingBrian2 wrote: »

How about we call them the neoliberals. Happy.

Call who?

Brian?

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Many liberals in America fit the characteristic of being neoliberal.

No, they don't. Many people who self identify as libertarian fit the description of neoliberal.

Late 20th century and early 21st century liberals believe that government plays a large role in regulating the economy. This is diametrically opposed to neoliberalism and classic liberalism.

Modern liberals aren't really liberals anymore. It's all very confusing to be honest. I suppose progressive is a far more apt term and has started to replace liberal in the nomenclature.

KingBrian2

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Many if not most of those identified as neo-liberal fall on the Republican side and whats worse they tend to coalesce with the neo-cons to produce a truly reprehensible beast.

Not entirely true many neoliberals have such disrespect for Americans and their values. The condescending attacks. You can't say every liberal hates America which is also untrue but a great deal do. The divide in America is very big at the moment. Liberal America and Conservative America whereas most Americans are somewhere in the middle.

jobbridge4life

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Not entirely true many neoliberals have such disrespect for Americans and their values. The condescending attacks. You can't say every liberal hates America which is also untrue but a great deal do.

Sorry but just a couple of posts ago you were complaining about the people accusing the Trumpists of being racist en masse. You are now in essence stating that most liberals hate America which is akin to accusing them of treason, which is in effect a call to violence against them. And your glib 'you can't say every' disclaimer is fooling no one.

Have you any evidence at all that a 'great deal' of liberals hate America? Literally any evidence at all that goes to prove that claim.

Do you understand that stating that a segment of the American population hates America is an extraordinarily dangerous claim to make?

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The divide in America is very big at the moment. Liberal America and Conservative America whereas most Americans are somewhere in the middle.

Yes there is a growing chasm in America but since you seem intent on furthering it I don't know how you expect us to take your apparent concern about it seriously.

Honestly and frankly speaking you just seem to be repeating verbatim talking points from a presentation to the least informed of republican voters.

Itssoeasy

TheDoctor wrote: »

Imagine how pissed they'll be when they turn out to vote on November 28th

Well trump said it but trump will probably claim that was a conspiracy of some sort. I think in the last few weeks it has dawned on the Republican Party of how damaging this election which they won't win will be to them going forward.

ancapailldorcha

A part of me is wondering if Trump knows he can't win at this stage and is looking to set up a Trump TV or a similar enterprise to capitalise on his popularity.

Itssoeasy

Brian? wrote: »

No, they don't. Many people who self identify as libertarian fit the description of neoliberal.

Late 20th century and early 21st century liberals believe that government plays a large role in regulating the economy. This is diametrically opposed to neoliberalism and classic liberalism.

Modern liberals aren't really liberals anymore. It's all very confusing to be honest. I suppose progressive is a far more apt term and has started to replace liberal in the nomenclature.

Well the term progressive has been used as a dirty word by several commentators on Fox News.

Has trump and his rise been a kind of a perfect storm with a section of the us population finding what they feel is a person who will fix all their ills with the us ? That's how it looks to me anyway. I just would hope that nothing does happen post election.

I think the Republican Party missed a chance as Hilary is not an unbeatable candidate in the slightest, if a true conservative GOP candidate had been selected.

Itssoeasy

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

A part of me is wondering if Trump knows he can't win at this stage and is looking to set up a Trump TV or a similar enterprise to capitalise on his popularity.

I don't think trump has a firm grasp on reality, because as far as I can see he's lived in his world which isn't a genuine reality all of his life.

B_Wayne

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

A part of me is wondering if Trump knows he can't win at this stage and is looking to set up a Trump TV or a similar enterprise to capitalise on his popularity.

I'm still inclined to say he's still potentially going to damage his businesses more regardless of any network tv opportunities.

Itssoeasy

B_Wayne wrote: »

I'm still inclined to say he's still potentially going to damage his businesses more regardless of any network tv opportunities.

Ive seen a link somewhere where the traffic to his golf courses was down in September. I think the brand trump will be damaged after this.

Quin_Dub

B_Wayne wrote: »

I'm still inclined to say he's still potentially going to damage his businesses more regardless of any network tv opportunities.

I think his new alt.right TV channel will be his only business making money in 2017.

His Hotel business is tanking this year. Bookings are way down, his new hotel in Washington is a ghost town and for the 1st time in it's history the company are launching hotels without the trump name

The Trump Brand Is So Toxic That His Company Is Now Planning Hotels Without His Name on Them

Brian?

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Not entirely true many neoliberals have such disrespect for Americans and their values. The condescending attacks. You can't say every liberal hates America which is also untrue but a great deal do. The divide in America is very big at the moment. Liberal America and Conservative America whereas most Americans are somewhere in the middle.

It's pretty clear you don't understand the terms you're using: Neo Liberal and liberal.

It kind of undermines everything else you try to say.

KingBrian2

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Sorry but just a couple of posts ago you were complaining about the people accusing the Trumpists of being racist en masse. You are now in essence stating that most liberals hate America which is akin to accusing them of treason, which is in effect a call to violence against them. And your glib 'you can't say every' disclaimer is fooling no one.

Have you any evidence at all that a 'great deal' of liberals hate America? Literally any evidence at all that goes to prove that claim.

Do you understand that stating that a segment of the American population hates America is an extraordinarily dangerous claim to make?



Yes there is a growing chasm in America but since you seem intent on furthering it I don't know how you expect us to take your apparent concern about it seriously.

Honestly and frankly speaking you just seem to be repeating verbatim talking points from a presentation to the least informed of republican voters.

I'll give you an example by posting this video and see if you disagree with some of the points that were raised.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wETVzn4M9Xc

This is not my opinion but the belief of many Americans.

CMOTDibbler

KingBrian2 wrote: »

I'll give you an example by posting this video and see if you disagree with some of the points that were raised.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wETVzn4M9Xc

This is not my opinion but the belief of many Americans.

A Bill O'Reilly rant that has nothing to do with the questions asked.

Having been accused of spouting talking points, you then link to more talking points. :rolleyes:

KingBrian2

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

A Bill O'Reilly rant that has nothing to do with the questions asked.

Having been accused of spouting talking points, you then link to more talking points. :rolleyes:

Yes and you dismiss it like that. Proving my point.

CMOTDibbler

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Yes and you dismiss it like that. Proving my point.

You have yet to actually make a coherent point.

You run away from uncomfortable questions.

alastair

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Yes and you dismiss it like that. Proving my point.

It's got nothing to do with the point you were claiming to defend. That's why it's rightly dismissed as dissembling.

jobbridge4life

KingBrian2 wrote: »

I'll give you an example by posting this video and see if you disagree with some of the points that were raised.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wETVzn4M9Xc

This is not my opinion but the belief of many Americans.

I'll happy provide you with an opinion once you have answered the questions and responded to the points that I posed to you.

KingBrian2

jobbridge4life wrote: »

I'll happy provide you with an opinion once you have answered the questions and responded to the points that I posed to you.

Alright I win concede hate is too strong a word.

Sam Russell

In 1995, this happened - a far right wing attack on America. Coincidentally, under President Clinton's watch. Could something similar happen again under a different President Clinton?

CMOTDibbler

Obama had a few words to say today about Trump's whining:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPpt7-QOGKc

Agent Smith

Sam Russell wrote: »

In 1995, this happened - a far right wing attack on America. Coincidentally, under President Clinton's watch. Could something similar happen again under a different President Clinton?

Someone watched Reeling in the years this evening.....

Sam Russell

Agent Smith wrote: »

Someone watched Reeling in the years this evening.....

I did indeed and it struck me as a large coincidence that this should have happened under Bill Clinton in his first few months of office. Also, it was American home grown terrorism that was to blame.

I hope that the Trumpist's right wing do not try to emulate this atrocity.

BorneTobyWilde

Why are so many Americans brain washed into doing exactly what the crooked government wants them to do. I still think polls are wrong like in the Brexit vote. Who was polling the council estates of the north east of uk, no one. And no one is polling the people in the sticks in USA either. All these rednecks and slack jawed yokels will emerge from the woods to wreak havoc with polls in so many swing states.

CMOTDibbler

Sam Russell wrote: »

I did indeed and it struck me as a large coincidence that this should have happened under Bill Clinton in his first few months of office. Also, it was American home grown terrorism that was to blame.

I hope that the Trumpist's right wing do not try to emulate this atrocity.

He's stoking the flames for another one.

Frank Bullitt

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Obama had a few words to say today about Trump's whining:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPpt7-QOGKc

Can't wait to see Trumps twitter rant after this.

alastair

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Why are so many Americans brain washed into doing exactly what the crooked government wants them to do. I still think polls are wrong like in the Brexit vote. Who was polling the council estates of the north east of uk, no one. And no one is polling the people in the sticks in USA either. All these rednecks and slack jawed yokels will emerge from the woods to wreak havoc with polls in so many swing states.

No they won't. Swing states are polled ad-infinitum, including the rednecks.

What precisely are the 'brainwashed' being asked to do by the 'crooked government'? It's not entirely clear.

CMOTDibbler

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Why are so many Americans brain washed into doing exactly what the crooked government wants them to do. I still think polls are wrong like in the Brexit vote. Who was polling the council estates of the north east of uk, no one. And no one is polling the people in the sticks in USA either. All these rednecks and slack jawed yokels will emerge from the woods to wreak havoc with polls in so many swing states.

Actually the polls for brexit were within the margin for error of the result. There was a last minute swing towards leave.

As for the other nonsense about 'brainwashing' and 'crooked government'. Easy. Everybody is brain washed. Look how easily you've been brain washed into believing polls are wrong.

Black Swan

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

There's a strong suggestion that he's going to move into TV and media once the election is over. It was mooted some time back when he started surrounding himself with the likes of Roger Ailes and his strong links with Breitbart and InfoWars.

He's already built himself a following that he could use as a base for a media empire.

Didn't Sarah Palin do the same thing after she lost the Vice Presidency in 2008 and resigned half-way through her 1st term as Alaska's governor in 2009? Cable TV?

Zubeneschamali

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

All these rednecks and slack jawed yokels will emerge from the woods to wreak havoc with polls in so many swing states.

Brilliant odds at Paddy Power right now if you actually believe this.

BorneTobyWilde

alastair wrote: »

No they won't. Swing states are polled ad-infinitum, including the rednecks.

What precisely are the 'brainwashed' being asked to do by the 'crooked government'? It's not entirely clear.

Not very clear, hmmm secretary of state Hilary makes a salary of 186,000$ .
Now where does her millions of dollars come from. Where oh where, could it be she tells the stupid public what they want to hear while selling them out and laughing about it behind their backs. Hmmmm could it be , hmmmm .
She's the most crooked person in world politics.

Itssoeasy

Heard a clip of obama dismissing this whole rigged election lark from trump. He made a point I hadn't considered actually and it's that states that have republican governors will have republican officials overseeing the voting in those states.

BorneTobyWilde

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Brilliant odds at Paddy Power right now if you actually believe this.

9-2 is not huge.
How many times have we seen a 9-2 beat a 1-6 shot.

PopePalpatine

The odds would suggest about 15% of the time, which is totally fair going by (TRIGGER WARNING FOR TRUMP FANS) FiveThirtyEight's calculations.

InTheTrees

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Now where does her millions of dollars come from.

She's released decades of tax returns. You can see to the penny where her millions have come from.

Zubeneschamali

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

9-2 is not huge.
How many times have we seen a 9-2 beat a 1-6 shot.

In a 2 horse race? I'll say roughly never. All hail President Clinton (no, not that one, the new one!).

BorneTobyWilde

Win the black vote and latina vote then tell them to feck off, see you in 4 years. She mocks them in private at how stupid they are.

Black Swan

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

She's the most crooked person in world politics.

Is this revealed in Hillary Clinton's tax returns? She has provided all her returns from 2000 to 2015. Can you point out in her tax returns where she evidences being "crooked" as you claim here?

Of course Donald Trump has nothing to hide in his tax returns, because like all the candidates for president for the past 4 decades he too has allowed the American voter to review them to ensure that he is not "crooked" or paying no taxes or evidencing any large foreign loans that may influence his decision making if elected president 2016. Unfortunately I cannot find the link where Donald Trump has revealed several years of his tax returns. Do you have it? Trump has nothing to hide does he?

Billy86

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Why are so many Americans brain washed into doing exactly what the crooked government wants them to do. I still think polls are wrong like in the Brexit vote. Who was polling the council estates of the north east of uk, no one. And no one is polling the people in the sticks in USA either. All these rednecks and slack jawed yokels will emerge from the woods to wreak havoc with polls in so many swing states.

Did you think the polls were wrong when 159 out of 160 of them from November 2015 had Trump winning the primaries? Or were they correct then because they confirmed your personal bias and told you what you wanted to hear?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_Republican_Party_2016_presidential_primaries#Polls_conducted_in_2016

Billy86

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Actually the polls for brexit were within the margin for error of the result. There was a last minute swing towards leave.

As for the other nonsense about 'brainwashing' and 'crooked government'. Easy. Everybody is brain washed. Look how easily you've been brain washed into believing polls are wrong.

Actually up until the terrorist attack a week or two before the election, they arguably weren't as they showed leave winning by a slim but noticeable margin.

CMOTDibbler

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Win the black vote and latina vote then tell them to feck off, see you in 4 years. She mocks them in private at how stupid they are.

To be fair. If you weren't on this thread, there'd be nothing to reply to. I just wish you could up your game a bit and make it just a teensy bit harder.

ancapailldorcha

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Win the black vote and latina vote then tell them to feck off, see you in 4 years. She mocks them in private at how stupid they are.

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

To be fair. If you weren't on this thread, there'd be nothing to reply to. I just wish you could up your game a bit and make it just a teensy bit harder.

Up the standard and cut out the sniping please.

alastair

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Not very clear, hmmm secretary of state Hilary makes a salary of 186,000$ .
Now where does her millions of dollars come from. Where oh where, could it be she tells the stupid public what they want to hear while selling them out and laughing about it behind their backs. Hmmmm could it be , hmmmm .
She's the most crooked person in world politics.

Nope - I'm still not getting where the 'crooked government' is asking the 'brainwashed' to do something. It's as if you haven't really formulated a clear scenario, and would rather spout woolly, but meaningless soundbites.

Billy86

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

9-2 is not huge.
How many times have we seen a 9-2 beat a 1-6 shot.

Hardly surprising that you're so certain of a Trump win yet won't take such long odds with your own money.

But if gambling money isn't your thing I'll give you an easier one - Clinton wins you close your account, Trump wins and I close mine. Deal?