2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

Billy86

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Holy crap what happened to the polls in the last day?

The BBC averages had it at 49% Clinton 40% Trump (yesterday I believe)

Today it's 47% to 43%...

Yes polls are not an exact science, yadda yadda.. but if Trump does well tonight, he could turn this into a close one

Nah, here are today's poll results - http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

And yesterdays if you scroll down a bit.

CMOTDibbler

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The odds of Trump v Hillary are being computed using the same methods of probability

Financial institutions and forex traders - going much deeper than we are, determined that there was a low chance of Brexit, hence the almost universal financial shock the next day

The same methods are being used to determine Hillary V Trump odds.. at the end of the day we're all basing our predictions on these odds and polls

Did you even look at the link to all the historical Brexit polls. They go back to 2010. Every single poll. Not one of them came even close to the numbers you quoted.

Two polls on the day before the vote showed big gains for remain. But two polls the same day showed leave winning by two percent and they were ignored. Hence the shock.

Average polling; the same basic methodology that the likes of RCP and 538 use showed that leave would win by 2%. They were right.

Have a read up on their methodologies. They are never wrong.

Billy86

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Indeed, but Brexit was at what 9%?

And again, nope - Brexit led the polls by over 3.78%, and won the referendum by... exactly 3.78% (51.89% to 48.11%)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum,_2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum

4068ac1elhodqr

That 10% remain lead on the 22nd June^ was fairly significant, you can't really count the next day 23rd as that's when the action happened.

frostyjacks

I imagine Hillary is getting juiced up right about now. Hot to trot, ma'am.

So, apparently Clinton supporters were paid to incite violence at Trump rallies. Hitler had the brownshirts, Hillary has her own little army of thugs to subvert democracy.

She is possibly the most corrupt, sinister and dangerous person in history. Honestly, if Pol Pot or Bin Laden were on the ballot paper I would vote for them ahead of this mad old woman.

Billy86

Finnley Quaint Wineglass wrote: »

I got a 1,300% return backing Brexit with S'James the week before Brexit.
The very best I could get backing Trump (today or in the last 3mths) would be 650%.

Either your memory is playing tricks on you, or you are being a little less than honest with us. Why do I think this?

Because Brexit was only 5/2 the week before the vote at Stan James. How do I know this?

You told me.

Finnley Quaint Wineglass wrote: »

That 4.5 Brexit value has left the station, now edging towards an even or 2.25 battle, and it really can go either way now.

The pound is falling and remain politicians are getting very nervous.
If remain do win it will only be by small percentiles.

Billy86

Finnley Quaint Wineglass wrote: »

That 10% remain lead on the 22nd June^ was fairly significant, you can't really count the next day 23rd as that's when the action happened.

There was a backlash of people not wanting to be associated with Tommy Mair, hence the polls swinging back just before the vote. The fact remains it showed a 3.78% average difference and the end result was that the Brexiters won by 3.78%. Can't really ask for a more accurate average than that, can you?

The Brexit polls could barely have been any more accurate, and those in the 'Bremain' crowd who ignored them were proven wrong.

4068ac1elhodqr

On the night of Brexit itself, trading volatility was at it's highest and confidence in remain was probably at it's highest. Double-digit figures were readily available (if you were fast enough) across StanJames, Sky and BetFair just before Sunderland gave the wake-up call in the wee small hours.

alastair

frostyjacks wrote: »

She is possibly the most corrupt, sinister and dangerous person in history. Honestly, if Pol Pot or Bin Laden were on the ballot paper I would vote for them ahead of this mad old woman.

Of course you would. Not too long now before this circus ends and you resign yourself to the new lady POTUS.

K-9

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Indeed, but Brexit was at what 9%?

A good performance tonight could create a Trump rally

Nope, it wasn't 9%.The polls had Brexit close, it is just a myth that is taken as truth.

4068ac1elhodqr

There are literally millions upon millions of dormant twitter-auto-bots being prepared right now (on both sides) to run 'keyword activated' defamatory scripts, false information fact-checks and selective polling stats on what will be a live social media takeover.

It's a shame for the average hard working Joe & Jane to have two such marmite candidates to choose from.
If nothing else there is some entertainment or betting value, but that is all.

K-9

Finnley Quaint Wineglass wrote: »

On the night of Brexit itself, trading volatility was at it's highest and confidence in remain was probably at it's highest. Double-digit figures were readily available (if you were fast enough) across StanJames, Sky and BetFair just before Sunderland gave the wake-up call in the wee small hours.

But the polls got it right, or called it close.

IIRC Paddy Power stopped taking bets on Remain but all that is a sign of stupidity and bookies do get things wrong.

As for markets... schizophrenic.

RobertKK

I was on a trip today - took about 9 hours to Texas hill country and visited where Lyndon Baines Johnson grew up and then to his ranch and the Texas White House.
In the sitting room and his bedroom he had three TV so he could watch the news on the three main channels, and ring them up and complain if he didn't like the coverage.
There was 4 Americans who were a lot older than me on the trip I went on. We couldn't avoid the election.
Of course they had to ask what I thought of it, I said I don't know what to think.
Given they are from NJ and Washington area I had an idea they would not like Trump and who could blame them, but they didn't seem to like Hillary as she was not even mentioned.
The Washington women couldn't understand how upto maybe 50 million support Trump.
None of them liked Trump and wondered how the US got to where it with the NJ people saying it is not good whoever wins.
On my journeys in Texas I have only seen posters for Clinton/Kaine.
Nothing for Trump.
They were all planning on watching the debate.

Billy86

Finnley Quaint Wineglass wrote: »

On the night of Brexit itself, trading volatility was at it's highest and confidence in remain was probably at it's highest. Double-digit figures were readily available (if you were fast enough) across StanJames, Sky and BetFair just before Sunderland gave the wake-up call in the wee small hours.

What happened to 'the week before'? Come on now, you should know better than to be after timing like this!

Nonetheless, polls got it absolutely spot on - and polls are pretty much always a better indicator than the bookies. I could get 10 mates to each put €5k on Pep to be England's next manager tomorrow and all of a sudden he would be the favourite.

Overheal

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Indeed, but they had Clinton at 99% to win the Michigan primary. Sanders won.

Millennials, that aren't included in most pollling.

4068ac1elhodqr

Billy86 wrote: »

What happened to 'the week before'? Come on now, you should know better than to be after timing like this!

The week before as you know, WillHill had a fairly steady 4.5 to leave, sure for periods other books had as low as 2.5, as odds can change by the minute.

That steady 4.5 isn't a million miles from DT 5.5 or thereabouts over the last month. You're not claiming it was evens surely...???

On the night of the vote I mentioned here, seeing 8.0 with Sky. It also went above that for short periods of time.




That was a funny week, there was some lad taking about lumping 1,000's on at 1.2 for remain...

Billy86

Finnley Quaint Wineglass wrote: »

The week before as you know, WillHill had a fairly steady 4.5 to leave, sure for periods other books had as low as 2.5, as odds can change by the minute.

That steady 4.5 isn't a million miles from DT 5.5 or thereabouts over the last month. You're not claiming it was evens surely...???

On the night of the vote I mentioned here, seeing 8.0 with Sky. It also went above that for short periods of time.

Am I reading odds wrong here or something? You said you got a 1,300% return from a bet placed the week before the Brexit vote. Not the night before or of, the week before.

What does a 1,300% return show as in fractional betting? 12/1 or 13/1, right? Or am I wrong on this?

I'm curious because you said the odds were around 4.5/1 at best, and down as low as 2.25/1 in the week before the vote. Not the night before, the week before, which is when you said you placed the bet.

Being honest here because I don't convert odds much myself, am I reading something incorrectly there?



Mind you the value was obscene for those looking - the polling favourite getting as much as 4.5/1 odds even with the post Tommy Mair backlash is very, very high.

4068ac1elhodqr

Yes W'Hill with 4.5 (not evens, and similar to Trumps pricing now) was the steady price for perhaps 2months prior to Brexit, yes 6 (22nd June), 8 and 13 was also available 'within the last week', the higher prices were more volatile prices, much closer to close of the market and only available for shorter periods.

I'm still concerned for that chap who drove around looking for bookies to take his Bremain money at 1.20, poor chap.

4068ac1elhodqr

T-10 mins.

1/10 there will be some sniffing sounds from Don.

Billy86

Finnley Quaint Wineglass wrote: »

Yes W'Hill with 4.5 (not evens, and similar to Trumps pricing now) was the steady price for perhaps 2months prior to Brexit, yes 6 (22nd June), 8 and 13 was also available 'within the last week', the higher prices were more volatile prices, much closer to close of the market and only available for shorter periods.

I'm still concerned for that chap who drove around looking for bookies to take his Bremain money at 1.20, poor chap.

It's funny how you never mentioned putting on that bet even once, or never mentioned the odds being that far out the week before, is all I'm saying.

Black Swan

Well, the 3rd and last 2016 presidential debate has concluded, and the winner was Trump for Trump supporters, and Clinton for Clinton supporters. Of course both sides will claim they won, and the other side lost, just as expected. What a craic this election has been from start to the 8 November 2016 finish, which, if you listened to Trump tonight, may not end if he loses. He'll wait and see, and wants that to remain a "surprise," Trump being Trump.

jooksavage

I ended up watching the whole thing. Obviously, like everyone else here, I'm not impartial but I really don't know how it could be seen as anything but a win for Clinton. Trump was calmer than usual for a lot of it but ended up talking over Clinton - "wrong", "nasty woman", etc.

I think his flippant refusal to say whether he'd concede defeat on Nov 8 blasted everything else. It mightn't mean much to his supporters but it's a pretty significant statement. In the middle of what was in some ways his most restrained performance, he never sounded more like a dictator.

VinLieger

jooksavage wrote: »

I think his flippant refusal to say whether he'd concede defeat on Nov 8 blasted everything else. It mightn't mean much to his supporters but it's a pretty significant statement. In the middle of what was in some ways his most restrained performance, he never sounded more like a dictator.

It's actually huge for his supporters specifically the breitbart literate ones and the super extreme conspiracy nuts. He's playing directly to his core Trump base with this rubbish.

But yeah it's super scary how flippantly he's doing it and it's not something you can take back anywhere near as easily. The fact he's putting his own ego before the trust of the entire electoral system shows how much he should not be president

Akrasia

Trump wrote:

we're gonna speed up the process bigly

I have to admit I was wrong

Donald Trump does know all the best words.

Bigly is a great word. A tremendous word. I am going to incorporate it into my daily vocabulary.

Unfortunately for him, I don't think it's enough to turn around his election. He's still going to lose the election bigly.

Jan_de_Bakker

I think Trump won that one.

- allthough I agreed with a lot of stuff Hillary said - for once

Billy86

A damningly accurate summary of last night by Dan Rather he posted on Facebook.

I suspect the headline out of tonight may very well be Donald Trump’s refusal to guarantee that he will accept the decision of the voters on November 8. It is a horrifying and destabilizing betrayal of the norms of American politics. But it was just one part of a this final debate in a campaign that seems to be firmly in the Twilight Zone. This is not what our democracy should be, but it is where we are today. I wonder if many minds were changed. I doubt it.

Hillary Clinton has been judged the winner of the first two debates. Tonight, many felt Trump needed a knockout to get back in the race. But I think this was Clinton’s best performance – perhaps by far. I think she wanted this to be a preview of her presidency. Her tone was the most straightforward and direct I have yet seen. She didn’t try to run away from her policy expertise. She embraced it. It was as if she was saying, “I am here. I am smart. I am qualified. I will not be intimidated or silenced. And I am ready to be president.”

The format of tonight’s debate favored depth over breadth on the number of topics. This meant that a lot of important issues (climate change?) were left unquestioned, but the benefit was that the able moderator Chris Wallace could drill down to real policy with the most important quality of an interviewer – the follow up question. And he used it to good effect.

There has been a silly trope floating around the coverage of the Clinton campaign about “likeability”. Many critics have claimed that the very notion is sexist. I agree. Yet tonight, Clinton seemed to throw those worries aside. There were fewer anecdotal flights of storytelling about her interactions with “average families” that you often hear about on the stump. Clinton was steely, determined, forceful. I think this will be the tone of her presidential face, and I think it is one she wears well and naturally.

Clinton hit Trump hard on issue after issue with knowledge and facts – on Russia, the Supreme Court, nuclear weapons, immigration, and the list goes on. You could disagree with her on policy, but you can’t question whether she knows what she’s talking about. One big line that I think will play on was in the dust up over Russia. Who would have thought that years after the end of the Cold War the specter of Russia would loom over and American presidential campaign? But there you have it. When the discussion turned to Wikileaks and who was responsible for the hack, Trump, disagreeing with the assessment of the U.S. intelligence agencies, said we don’t know who is behind it. Clinton fired back – He would rather believe Vladimir Putin than the military professionals and intelligence officials. It’s a line you could expect from Ronald Reagan.

By contrast, Trump has been skating through the campaign on buzzwords and applause lines that fire up his base. Tonight the format asked for more substance and he struggled. He often left topics dangling, meandered through head-scratching sentences, and fumbled with thoughts that went nowhere – all lines of thoughts wavering in the wind. Often his most cogent statements were cheap shots. When he would stop talking, I sometimes had to ask myself what was he talking about?

Trump’s millions of eager followers will continue to cheer as the majority of Americans seem to be turning the page on this ugly campaign. They have seen all they need from Trump and they have had enough. There was many lines from this debate that could make for powerful Clinton campaign ads. But I am not sure she will need them.

Trump may not agree to abide by the results of the election. But hopefully the rest of the country can act with a bit more maturity and decency.

nomadchocolate

If Trump is to win he really needs a wikileaks email or bombshell to stick.

Clinton, I think, has hovered up alot of the undecided voters based on last nights performance. Trump waffling on about "extracting" babies at 9 months further alienated any major potential female support, surely?

Is Clinton's health ok?

daithi7

Billy86 wrote: »

A damningly accurate summary of last night by Dan Rather he posted on Facebook.

Yeah, I agree with the summary, except this line puzzles me tbh
'There has been a silly trope floating around the coverage of the Clinton campaign about “likeability”. Many critics have claimed that the very notion is sexist. I agree. .....'

What's sexist about "likeability", it's probably the most gender neutral quality known e.g. JFK was likeable, Nixon arguably not, May is arguably likeable, Farrage is not. It's an easy thing to understand and a well known litmus test for voters on whether they opt for candidates or not.


I've watched about an hour of the debate and at last, I thought Clinton began to look someway presidential. She was steely, knowledgeable and formidable , and beat the floundering Trump hands down. She is far from near the perfect candidate, but she is clearly better than the alternative. This election has been all but over since the Trumpgate video & the ensuing second debate. He is now a damaged, & dangerous candidate with a deeply damaged campaign (that even the Republicans can't abide) against a competent, formidable but cold competitor of dubious integrity, ethics & track record. Game Over, (another) Clinton will be the next president of the USA.

CMOTDibbler

daithi7 wrote: »

Yeah, I agree with the summary, except this line puzzles me tbh
'There has been a silly trope floating around the coverage of the Clinton campaign about “likeability”. Many critics have claimed that the very notion is sexist. I agree. .....'

What's sexist about "likeability", it's probably the most gender neutral quality known e.g. JFK was likeable, Nixon arguably not, May is arguably likeable, Farrage is not. It's an easy thing to understand and a well known litmus test for voters on whether they opt for candidates or not.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. It struck me as well when reading it.

I suspect that there's context needed that those of us living at a far remove can't really grasp.

aloyisious

I'd have given it 65/35 to Hillary up to the time Don blew it when he refused to do what any normal person would do in the event of losing, behave gracefully and accept defeat. It might sound ridiculous but it wouldn't surprise me if he would announce a court attempt to overturn the election result when and should he lose. It'd be a natural Trump-ism. Saying he wouldn't accept being the loser gracefully blew it for him.

IMO, Dons petulant "she's a nasty woman" was so child-like when they were two adults involved in debating the future course of the US helped close the case for Hillary. He just can't being petulant when faced with the fact he can't respond to truths with relevant answers.

The only other way I see Hillary losing being the person inaugurated as the 44th US President has to be something putting her out of action.

Sofa Spud

Watched the whole thing, couple of things stood out.

First, when they announced the moderators, I thought Wallace could be the least objective and it turned out, apart from his obvious nervousness at times, he actually did a good job of holding both of them to account in a fairly balanced (geddit!) way.

Clinton looked a little rattled at times but was able to pivot (another annoying Americanism that's become part of the modern lexicon) away from testing questions and Trump was not focused enough to make any great capital when he could have.

But the obvious point is how unhinged Trump came across - as Maher puts it, he came across as a whinny little b&%ch. He managed to turn questions about specific policy or character questions where he could have hit Hillary hard to being about himself, he showed little understanding of policy and his economic policy is clearly based on wishful thinking and the hope that people will like what he's saying, even though what he's saying is short on any specific policy, and won't question the logic of it.

The sad thing is that you will have Trump supporters voting against their own economic interests, when their messed up economic situation is their main reason for voting for him - they think he can stop the tide of jobs being off-shored and the decimation of the middle and working classes, when the only specifics he's come up with are large tax cuts for the wealthy and more deregulation, which rarely has a positive impact on the working poor. Not a fan of Hill, but at least she seems to have a clear plan to reduce education costs - which is a corner stone of economic mobility - a plan for infrastructure investment and targeted tax cuts for high earners.

No doubt most of the coverage will focus on his unwillingness to accept the result, which we speculated about on this thread before the debate and looks like we called it correctly, but the only clear outcome is that whatever the result, America looses - it will be more partisan, more divided and even more focused on style and edifice and less on policy and substance than it has ever been before. Good luck to them.....

pumpkin4life

Debate was a draw, with maybe a slight edge to Clinton.

I doubt it will change people's mind's much.

Quin_Dub

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Debate was a draw, with maybe a slight edge to Clinton.

I doubt it will change people's mind's much.

The general consensus from what I've seen and read so far was that Trump had his best debate performance so far , but not the absolute Blow-out performance he needed to shift the needle.

However he then utterly destroyed that good work by his refusal to say he'd accept the election result. The "such a nasty woman" comment didn't help either..

Kinda like scoring the equaliser in the World-cup final then head-butting the ref just afterwards.

Overheal

Hillary is even winning the Breitbart online poll...

Trump ended his campaign last night when he refused to acknowledge a peaceful transition of power to whomever wins the presidency. Seems like everyone is blasting him - left and right - about how damning those remarks were and how they may have very plainly put the final nail in this campaign's coffin.

2016 is decided. Hillary Clinton is our next President chosen from a narrow field of finalists and was determined to be the least awful pill to swallow. God bless America.

Billy86

Quin_Dub wrote: »

The general consensus from what I've seen and read so far was that Trump had his best debate performance so far , but not the absolute Blow-out performance he needed to shift the needle.

However he then utterly destroyed that good work by his refusal to say he'd accept the election result. The "such a nasty woman" comment didn't help either..

Kinda like scoring the equaliser in the World-cup final then head-butting the ref just afterwards.

I'm guessing you haven't seen the debate yet? I would advise you to, Trump was, to use maybe his favour word in the whole wide world, adisaster. A disaster of epic proportions. Started ok but behind for 15 mins of so, and then absolutely nosedived in a seemingly never ending spiral right to the end, where he said a vote for Clinton would be a vote for the current president who has pretty high approval rating.

It was a magnificent Trumped up train wreck.

Billy86

Overheal wrote: »

Hillary is even winning the Breitbart online poll...

And not just winning it, but winning by 18.8%

http://www.mediaite.com/online/hillary-clinton-is-currently-leading-the-breitbart-online-poll/

It looks like even the pollbots have abandoned Trump. Brannon will be next, Ailes left yesterday. It's going to be a lonely finish for the man who tried to alienate everyone he possibly could. No big surprise there.

Trent Houseboat

pumpkin4life wrote:

Debate was a draw, with maybe a slight edge to Clinton.

I doubt it will change people's mind's much.

I might be spending too much time on 538, but this reminds me when you see the LA Times/Dornsife poll is Trump +1 and 538 adjust that to Clinton +2.
A draw in pumpkin's opinion means a decisive victory for Clinton.

Overheal

If Ailes left him so much for TrumpTV

All he had to do is play it cool but he took this conspiracy theory over the line that people could follow him on.

Take a good look at the polls/models, because his chances of winning are going to drop hard

Billy86

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

I might be spending too much time on 538, but this reminds me when you see the LA Times/Dornsife poll is Trump +1 and 538 adjust that to Clinton +2.
A draw in pumpkin's opinion means a decisive victory for Clinton.

Will try to find it later, up there's an interesting story on their model, its not exactly biased as much as deeply, deeply flawed. One 1 year old black guy in Chicago's vote is worth about 350 standard votes of those participating in it, for example.

Timberrrrrrrr

Another woman comes forward to accuse Trump of inappropriate sexual conduct

Live on sky now

Sofa Spud

Interesting to go on youtube to watch some of the post debate analysis, especially on Fox. Hannity has not hidden the fact that he's a Trump supporter (did anyone call him after the last debate?) but his coverage with Trump's American Pyscho clone son was fascinating as a lesson in just how partisan and delusional the coverage can be.

Someone mentioned earlier how now that Roger Ailes has washed his hands of Trump, he can say good bye to Trump TV - that may be the case, but I wouldn't be surprised if it still happens, just maybe catering more to the extreme fringes of the alt:right that have a preference for shiny metallic head-wear than a potentially 'bigger tent' conservative base.

The possible scary thing to consider is that Trump has clearly shown there is a strong appetite for the angry, America First, the 'elites are out to get us', downtrodden, ready for a populist (demagogic) vote, and while he would appear to have blown it due to his temperament and insane baggage, what if there was more media and politically savvy personality to emerge that could exploit that base more effectively, without alienating so many core groups (women, minorities etc)?

This probably boils down to what's going to happen to the GOP after the election? Civil War between the Trumpeters and the 'sane' wing and then a split? Will the defeat be so bad, and not just in the presidential but also the congressional, that the collective response is 'F@%k that, we're not trying that nonsense again' and they go back to business as usual?
I'm not sure that will be possible, the cat (or whatever it was living on Trump's head) is out of the bag and I'm not sure it can be put back, or even spayed or neutered.

The really interesting thing to come out of this election will be what happens when Trump's inevitable Twitter meltdown subsides in the aftermath and what then for the right? Can sanity be restored or will someone else step in to exploit the vacuum? Hillary, by her very existence, will give plenty of fuel to someone to pick up where the Donald left off, if he does.....

BorneTobyWilde

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Another woman comes forward to accuse Trump of inappropriate sexual conduct

Live on sky now

After debate .
I wonder will there be a witness or proof this time or just a story.
These are puppets being paid by Clinton to dance to her lies.

Timberrrrrrrr

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

After debate .
I wonder will there be a witness or proof this time or just a story.
These are puppets being paid by Clinton to dance to her lies.

Evidence for your claims?

Overheal

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

After debate .
I wonder will there be a witness or proof this time or just a story.
These are puppets being paid by Clinton to dance to her lies.

Trevor Noah: “To be fair, Trump thinks all women are puppets, that’s why he’s always trying to stick his hand up them.”

CMOTDibbler

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

After debate .
I wonder will there be a witness or proof this time or just a story.
These are puppets being paid by Clinton to dance to her lies.

In a news vacuum the above might actually be believed by somebody. Possibly.

But when Trump himself is on record boasting about his actions with women, then it just seems a teensy bit off.

Trent Houseboat

Sofa Spud wrote: »

Interesting to go on youtube to watch some of the post debate analysis, especially on Fox. Hannity has not hidden the fact that he's a Trump supporter (did anyone call him after the last debate?) but his coverage with Trump's American Pyscho clone son was fascinating as a lesson in just how partisan and delusional the coverage can be.

Megyn Kelly called him out after the first debate. Can't remember the wording, but some thing like: Trump is talking to Hannity now let's see if he addresses a journalist afterwards.

No fan a of Kelly but it was a solid burn.

Sofa Spud

Yeah, in fairness to Kelly, she can be the voice of reason when she's not insisting a bit too vigorously that Santa is white.

I liked her burn when Karl Rove was trying to insist that it wasn't all over for Romney last time 'round when some of the districts in Ohio were still waiting to report - iirc she said something like 'is that mathematically possible or are you just saying something to try to make yourself feel better?'....

InTheTrees

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

In a news vacuum the above might actually be believed by somebody. Possibly.

But when Trump himself is on record boasting about his actions with women, then it just seems a teensy bit off.

I know. I dont get the outrage at these victims coming forward. Trump boasted about it ffs.

Save

Itssoeasy

I didn't watch the debate last night due to the time difference. But I see that Chris Wallace is getting praise for how he moderated the debate which I wasn't really surprised to see. Himself and Shepard smith just seem so out of place on Fox News. Shepard at times you can see him losing the will to live.

I also see that trump didn't commit to acccepting the election results. Good man Donald. His campaign is like a multi vehicle car crash. You should look away but can't.

Itssoeasy

I see the Donald has just said he will accept the election result "if he wins" he probably thinks that will do.