Problem tenants

gustus · 13-08-2016 7:07pm #1

Hi,
Im a landlord with tenants who have decided to not communicate, not pay rent, and not respond to any questions about the property or requests to access the property.
We were friends. They then said that they tested the property for radon (over a max two week period) and found it to be high.(I've read this takes 3 months) Instead of informing me of this, they instead attacked me with aggressive and threatening what'sapp messages. I said I'd come by first thing in the morning and was met with silence. I ordered the epa (environmental protection agency) tester and have since requested 4 times to gain access to input it and have met with silence.
The rent remains unpaid and they simply directed me by email to issue them with the 14 day notice period which I've done as I didn't know what else to do.
In law there is no obligation regarding testing for or reducing radon. I didn't know there was an issue. I Still dont in fact as I've no idea what test they did, how they carried it out, and I'm quite sure they blocked up the house vents some time ago for heating purposes.
They have a conspiracy theory that I knowingly put them in a high radon house and that the water tank and house vent (it's a 140 year old cottage) are part of that conspiracy.
Anyway that's the background. When you take that away I basically have tenants who won't communicate and won't pay rent and won't give access.
Any input would be welcome.
Thanks

Toots · 13-08-2016 7:43pm

Have you been in touch with the RTB to ask for advice? If not, they'd be my first port of call.

Lantus · 13-08-2016 7:52pm

Sounds like they want to not pay rent. Radon can cause lung cancer so even staying rent free is undesirable. If they were really worried they would be leaving asap. They're not which tells you everything you need to know.

Start all eviction proceedings asap.

gustus · 13-08-2016 8:52pm

Toots wrote: »

Have you been in touch with the RTB to ask for advice? If not, they'd be my first port of call.

Hi Toots. I have indeed. I've logged about 5 calls with them. However your options seem very limited as a landlord. Just looking for people that may have had similar experiences.
Thanks anyway

gustus · 13-08-2016 8:53pm

Lantus wrote: »

Sounds like they want to not pay rent. Radon can cause lung cancer so even staying rent free is undesirable. If they were really worried they would be leaving asap. They're not which tells you everything you need to know.

Start all eviction proceedings asap.

When you look at it like that it does seem very clear. Thanks.
14 Day notice has been served as has a house inspection.

Sad Professor · 13-08-2016 8:58pm

Are you sure they are still there? Maybe they already left?

gustus · 13-08-2016 9:14pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

Are you sure they are still there? Maybe they already left?

Definitely still there. Saw them the other day. Their car was blocking the garage.

antoinolachtnai · 13-08-2016 11:17pm

If you don't know about this you definitely need advice, from IPOA, a solicitor, a knowledgeable landlord or elsewhere.

The RTB are not your friend. They are a dispute resolution service. They cannot really offer you advice.

My broad suggestion is that you need to get into the RTB process as quickly as possible. You need to follow through on the process without delay.

I would be inclined to ask them to leave to allow remedial and survey work to be carried out. But the 14 day letter and so on is also important.

utmbuilder · 15-08-2016 2:07am

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

If you don't know about this you definitely need advice, from IPOA, a solicitor, a knowledgeable landlord or elsewhere.

The RTB are not your friend. They are a dispute resolution service. They cannot really offer you advice.

My broad suggestion is that you need to get into the RTB process as quickly as possible. You need to follow through on the process without delay.

I would be inclined to ask them to leave to allow remedial and survey work to be carried out. But the 14 day letter and so on is also important.

I think he is liable to put them up in a hotel if he asks them to leave for repairs, or trys a notice to quit without sending out the notices.

Really should call threshold.ie they can advise better.

To be honest its a scary story if its true about the radon they will be out of that house like a bat out of hell.

Musketeer4 · 15-08-2016 10:24am

Situations like this is exactly why landlords should be very, very picky about who they let in to their property.

antoinolachtnai · 15-08-2016 10:31am

Threshold are not the landlord's friend either. They do their best, but it is really not their job to give advice to landlords.

For sure, you would have to tell them the tenancy has ended because works have to be carried out. There are lots of pitfalls to this, certainly. You have to be cautious and adept at this point. It really would help to have an experienced person guiding you.

It is certainly an option to send one notice, and then another. Even if there is a question of legitimacy over the first one, there won't be on the second one.

The trick is to them out as painlessly as possible. There may be a 'human' or 'social' way to get this done, which you may be able to do in parallel with the legal steps you must take.

Musketeer4 · 15-08-2016 12:26pm

Do you or a family member live nearby? Just tell them you want to move back into the house and use that avenue to get the house back? You could go with the story your wife threw you out or whatever. Who's to prove otherwise?

spaceHopper · 15-08-2016 12:30pm

Don't go the repairs root, lets say they leave and you find there is no radon issue and relet it they can lodge a case that you falsely evicted them. Stick to they aren't paying rent. Pay the arrears or go.

notharrypotter · 15-08-2016 12:53pm

Radon Map Ireland

Not all of Ireland is affected equally, some areas are more prone than others.

Use this as a guide to support your contention to get it tested properly.

Using this as a pretext for repairs is unlikely to work.

Re

Stick to they aren't paying rent. Pay the arrears or go

Simple and straight forward advice.

Follow the steps in the correct order, do not take shortcuts as this will undermine your position.

We were friends.

You are running a business.
Keep all interactions professional.

chillin117 · 15-08-2016 1:01pm

Thats like calling a property a fire hazard but staying there anyway (Rent Free) They just want free accommodation. .Fcuk them out asap

Ms Doubtfire1 · 15-08-2016 2:49pm

Indeed, Unfortunately in cases like this the LL has very little support. Stick to the official procedure. Make sure you document everything.Start proceedings right away.

gustus · 16-08-2016 9:56pm

Thank you all. Proceedings are ongoing. Sticking to formal steps for now and allowing them to continue behaving badly. Can only but strengthen my case. Definitely learned my lesson to keep business and pleasure separate. Its a bloody disgrace though how little power you have as a landlord to gain access to your own property and to deal with rent arrears.

utmbuilder · 17-08-2016 1:09pm

there should be some form of credit protection , when this happens and if a landlord is unable to meet the mortgage repayments. even insurance.

gustus · 07-12-2016 7:03pm

I just got my EPA (Environmental protection Agency) Radon test results back. They are 40 Becquerels / M3. Thats 5 times below the safety level. It appears the whole thing was a load of cobblers.
I am planning to bring this to the PRTB and claim all lost earnings. Any experience with this anyone?

handlemaster · 07-12-2016 8:38pm

gustus wrote: »

I just got my EPA (Environmental protection Agency) Radon test results back. They are 40 Becquerels / M3. Thats 5 times below the safety level. It appears the whole thing was a load of cobblers.
I am planning to bring this to the PRTB and claim all lost earnings. Any experience with this anyone?

I cant believe your still fuss ing about. Did they pay any rent ?

Uriel. · 07-12-2016 8:39pm

gustus wrote: »

I just got my EPA (Environmental protection Agency) Radon test results back. They are 40 Becquerels / M3. Thats 5 times below the safety level. It appears the whole thing was a load of cobblers.
I am planning to bring this to the PRTB and claim all lost earnings. Any experience with this anyone?

Typically the best you can hope for is their lawful removal from the property after approximately one year, a large repair and clean up bill and possibly a civil judgment for costs that won't be worth the paper it's printed on.

Nonetheless stick to the legal processes and try move forward as quickly as possible. If you have savings, subject to your financial status, dont go blowing your savings in the near future because you may need to pay all manner of costs to secure a judgment, to exercise that judgment through the courts etc.

awful situation for your and landlords have next to no protection at all in these scenarios

gustus · 07-12-2016 9:03pm

handlemaster wrote: »

I cant believe your still fuss ing about. Did they pay any rent ?

Still fussing? Sure I only just got the radon result back and house has now been empty for 4 months. All the while paying the mortgage with no income. They were "friends" and completely screwed me over. I'll keep fussing

gustus · 07-12-2016 9:08pm

Uriel. wrote: »

Typically the best you can hope for is their lawful removal from the property after approximately one year, a large repair and clean up bill and possibly a civil judgment for costs that won't be worth the paper it's printed on.

Nonetheless stick to the legal processes and try move forward as quickly as possible. If you have savings, subject to your financial status, dont go blowing your savings in the near future because you may need to pay all manner of costs to secure a judgment, to exercise that judgment through the courts etc.

awful situation for your and landlords have next to no protection at all in these scenarios

They are out since August but I've had an empty property for 4 months due to "high radon" which it turns out never existed.
They broke contract 3 months early. Smashed vases and plant pots. Stole a few things. Took all light pendants. That's all after they sent a multitude of threatening and abusive messages.
Delighted my radon levels are safe but furious with their behaviour.
Apparently a dispute only costs 20€ to lodge... So probably worth it

punisher5112 · 07-12-2016 9:18pm

gustus wrote: »

They are out since August but I've had an empty property for 4 months due to "high radon" which it turns out never existed.
They broke contract 3 months early. Smashed vases and plant pots. Stole a few things. Took all light pendants. That's all after they sent a multitude of threatening and abusive messages.
Delighted my radon levels are safe but furious with their behaviour.
Apparently a dispute only costs 20€ to lodge... So probably worth it

Why would you leave house empty for so long and did you actually think to get some professional advice on the radon issue.

I don't really get why you would do it the way you have done and you should really get yourself up to date with rental laws and both tenant and LL rights.

I would suggest you use an estate agent but do your homework and use a reputable one and really do proper checks on whom you want to let to.

Its a business at the end of the day so best never mix that up and become detached from the house as its not your home it is the tenants to be while they pay rent and as you know now they can overstay and many other things and most of the time never get back what's owed.

rawn · 07-12-2016 11:04pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Why would you leave house empty for so long and did you actually think to get some professional advice on the radon issue.

I don't really get why you would do it the way you have done and you should really get yourself up to date with rental laws and both tenant and LL rights.

I would suggest you use an estate agent but do your homework and use a reputable one and really do proper checks on whom you want to let to.

Its a business at the end of the day so best never mix that up and become detached from the house as its not your home it is the tenants to be while they pay rent and as you know now they can overstay and many other things and most of the time never get back what's owed.

They kept the house empty while waiting on a professional to declare it safe, surely that's exactly the right approach to take??

punisher5112 · 07-12-2016 11:29pm

rawn wrote: »

They kept the house empty while waiting on a professional to declare it safe, surely that's exactly the right approach to take??

No as why would this person believe the bogus claims in the 1st place? And from what I read friends( so called) were there and not paying and making all sorts of claims the op even stated they couldn't know if it was or wasn't present.

I really think they aren't cut out to be a ll as I stated its a business and all personal property within reason should be removed as to not be attached.

Mad in my opinion but sure hey not my house so oh well.

07-12-2016 11:30pm

rawn wrote: »

They kept the house empty while waiting on a professional to declare it safe, surely that's exactly the right approach to take??

If you are in the habit of believing dodgy tenants claims its unsafe with no grounds or proof for their claim.

Most people would just rent it out again straight away, I certainly would and wouldn't have gone getting it tested either.

newacc2015 · 07-12-2016 11:44pm

rawn wrote: »

They kept the house empty while waiting on a professional to declare it safe, surely that's exactly the right approach to take??

There was no threat from the beginning. They lied to OP about the test in the first place to dodge paying rent. Radon is not carbon monoxide, it doesnt kill you over night. It takes decades of exposure to be any way cancer causing.

A digital test could have been ordered. They are pretty accurate within 2 to 7 days

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Corentium-AirThings-Detector-International-Version/dp/B00FORY4QU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1481150614&sr=8-1&keywords=digital+radon

rawn · 08-12-2016 12:29am

newacc2015 wrote: »

There was no threat from the beginning. They lied to OP about the test in the first place to dodge paying rent. Radon is not carbon monoxide, it doesnt kill you over night. It takes decades of exposure to be any way cancer causing.

A digital test could have been ordered. They are pretty accurate within 2 to 7 days

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Corentium-AirThings-Detector-International-Version/dp/B00FORY4QU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1481150614&sr=8-1&keywords=digital+radon

Can you imagine the outrage if the tenants weren't lying though, and the LL knowingly moved new tenants into a house that wasn't safe??! Yes it turns out they were lying, but as a LL (or any businessman) surely you legally have to err on the side of caution until you get a professional in to declare it safe?

The_Valeyard · 08-12-2016 12:41am

I'd be interested in hearing how you proceed and have any joy getting rent back or damaged paid for.

gustus · 08-12-2016 12:42am

rawn wrote: »

Can you imagine the outrage if the tenants weren't lying though, and the LL knowingly moved new tenants into a house that wasn't safe??! Yes it turns out they were lying, but as a LL (or any businessman) surely you legally have to err on the side of caution until you get a professional in to declare it safe?

Thank you for <mod snip> reply. Yes it was incredibly frustrating but had to be done. We were "friends" so I trusted their reports etc....

Problem tenants

Comments