PC Piracy survey

Kirby

Shiminay wrote: »

That's simply not true for a lot of games, anything with an online service has ongoing costs that can only be recouped by shifting a fkton of product over the course of the game's lifetime (or trying to charge a subscription which simply won't cut it anymore). Pirating a game of this nature is 100% not a victimless anything.

You are skipping a few steps on the logic train there. Talking about online services has nothing to do with anything and is completely irrelevant. Pirated games dont connect to online servers.

If I pirate a game I had no intention of paying.....i havent cost the publisher a single cent. Nobody lost any money. Now, nobody gained anything....but nobody lost anything. Hence, Victimless crime. A crime yes. But also victimless.

Piracy becomes a problem when people who would otherwise purchase your product, pirate it. I do not fall into that bracket. If i downloaded something, they never had a chance at my money to begin with.

Maguined

Kirby wrote: »

You are skipping a few steps on the logic train there. Talking about online services has nothing to do with anything and is completely irrelevant. Pirated games dont connect to online servers.

If I pirate a game I had no intention of paying.....i havent cost the publisher a single cent. Nobody lost any money. Now, nobody gained anything....but nobody lost anything. Hence, Victimless crime. A crime yes. But also victimless.

Piracy becomes a problem when people who would otherwise purchase your product, pirate it. I do not fall into that bracket. If i downloaded something, they never had a chance at my money to begin with.

That sounds like a whole bunch of excuses really to justify yourself. You only pirate games you would never buy? If you enjoy playing a game there is the chacne you would pay for it, maybe a sale occurs and the price is low but to blankly say you will play and enjoy games and have zero chance of paying for it is a stretch I think.

super_furry

The thing for me is ease of use, convince and price. It's easier and much, much handier to buy a game than to pirate it and with PC, if you wait a while, game prices plumit anyway. I don't think I've pirates a PC game in at least a decade just because now it's easier not to.

That said I have a folder of emulators and ROMs that's over 60gb now. Not sure if consider that piracy though, I don't think anyone is losing money off me have a full 32x Romset.

Kirby

Maguined wrote: »

That sounds like a whole bunch of excuses really to justify yourself. You only pirate games you would never buy? If you enjoy playing a game there is the chacne you would pay for it, maybe a sale occurs and the price is low but to blankly say you will play and enjoy games and have zero chance of paying for it is a stretch I think.

I dont need to justify anything to anyone. The thread is for polling people. It isnt a venue to pontificate and lecture and look down on people for their choices.

And kindly don't project. "If you enjoy playing a game there is a chance you will pay for it..." Speak for yourself please. I know what I'm willing to pay for and what I am not. If I'm downloading it, i wouldnt have bought it. It's that simple. Its not a complex sentence so I'm a bit baffled why its causing a problem.

Maybe I should use an analogy. That sometimes helps. A man stands in a doorway to your office offering free pens. You say "ooh. Free pen!" and you take one. Now, you didnt ask for that pen. But it was there and it was free so you took it. Will you use it? Maybe, maybe not. But it was offered so you took it.

Now....if that man was not there does that mean you would have gone out that morning to the nearest shop and bought a pen? No. Because you had no desire for a pen. You took it because it was there. If it wasnt there, you wouldnt suddenly go buy one. Hence no lost sale. The pen company is not out a sale.

The actual harm in piracy comes from a company full of people who want pens....and this man gives them all away for free. Thats lost revenue.

Nobody is saying piracy isnt harmful. Nobody intelligent anyway. What I was saying, is that the view that publishers and some people take that every pirated copy is a lost sale.....is absolute nonsense. I've never pirated a single thing that I would have paid for. If piracy was eradicated tomorrow, some people would be screwed because they pirate everything. I, wouldnt lose any sleep. I would continue on as I had done and buy the stuff i want, and ignore the stuff I dont.

Maguined

Kirby wrote: »

I dont need to justify anything to anyone. The thread is for polling people. It isnt a venue to pontificate and lecture and look down on people for their choices.

The thread was started to discuss a poll ran by pcgamer. It is a discussion forum so what is wrong with me discussing your views offered?

Kirby wrote: »

And kindly don't project. "If you enjoy playing a game there is a chance you will pay for it..." Speak for yourself please. I know what I'm willing to pay for and what I am not. If I'm downloading it, i wouldnt have bought it. It's that simple. Its not a complex sentence so I'm a bit baffled why its causing a problem.

Maybe I should use an analogy. That sometimes helps. A man stands in a doorway to your office offering free pens. You say "ooh. Free pen!" and you take one. Now, you didnt ask for that pen. But it was there and it was free so you took it. Will you use it? Maybe, maybe not. But it was offered so you took it.

Now....if that man was not there does that mean you would have gone out that morning to the nearest shop and bought a pen? No. Because you had no desire for a pen. You took it because it was there. If it wasnt there, you wouldnt suddenly go buy one. Hence no lost sale. The pen company is not out a sale.

The actual harm in piracy comes from a company full of people who want pens....and this man gives them all away for free. Thats lost revenue.

Nobody is saying piracy isnt harmful. Nobody intelligent anyway. What I was saying, is that the view that publishers and some people take that every pirated copy is a lost sale.....is absolute nonsense. I've never pirated a single thing that I would have paid for. If piracy was eradicated tomorrow, some people would be screwed because they pirate everything. I, wouldnt lose any sleep. I would continue on as I had done and buy the stuff i want, and ignore the stuff I dont.

I don't believe your analogy is correct because there is a difference between servicing a need and servicing entertainment. If I need a pen I can go out and buy one, if someone offers a free pen you get a surplus pen you might use in the future but the distinction is it being offered. Entertainment is not a need it is a choice of spending free time. No one offered a free game, that is downloading a demo. Your analogy would be closer to you breaking into someones home and hiding behind their couch so you can watch their Sky Movies as it is film you want to see but are unwilling to pay money to see and since it was already paid for by whomevers house it is then you consider it okay.

H3llR4iser

Maguined wrote: »

I don't believe your analogy is correct because there is a difference between servicing a need and servicing entertainment. If I need a pen I can go out and buy one, if someone offers a free pen you get a surplus pen you might use in the future but the distinction is it being offered. Entertainment is not a need it is a choice of spending free time. No one offered a free game, that is downloading a demo. Your analogy would be closer to you breaking into someones home and hiding behind their couch so you can watch their Sky Movies as it is film you want to see but are unwilling to pay money to see and since it was already paid for by whomevers house it is then you consider it okay.

Not even remotely; think about it like this: somebody puts his/her TV outside their front door and shows a movie on Sky, you see and decide to watch, even if you wouldn't have been wanting to watch that one specific movie. The fact you're watching has no influence whatsoever on Sky's profit.

There WILL be the one who wanted to watch that specific movie and would have bought it - that's where the concept of piracy becomes a problem, but the point stands - it's not always the case.

Back in the heyday of pirate game CDs/DVDs sold withe the formula of "3 for 10 Euro" near the University I attended in Italy and passing discs to copy amongst coursemates, I would routinely come home with games I hadn't even heard about before - just because either one mate happened to have it and I burned a copy on the fly.

Kirby

Maguined wrote: »

Your analogy would be closer to you breaking into someones home and hiding behind their couch so you can watch their Sky Movies as it is film you want to see but are unwilling to pay money to see and since it was already paid for by whomevers house it is then you consider it okay.

No. That anlogy doesnt work. At all. In fact it's so off base I'm starting to think you are just looking for a rise. There are several inaccuracies in that sentence alone.

"breaking into someones home".
Firstly, pirating a game isnt breaking into anything. I amnt hacking EA or Activisions servers. Somebody who has already purchased the game or been given it by the publisher, has cracked it and uploaded it onto a server. Which I am downloading it from. That in no way equates to breaking into somebody's house.

Secondly you claim its a "movie I want to see". I've repeatedly explained to you that its not something I want to see. Im seeing it because its free. I dont care either way. I'm taking the pen/watching the movie/downloading the game because its free. If I "want" it....i pay for it. As my library of games would attest to.I'm availing of something being offered to me for free.

Taking your version with Sky Movies analogy to its logical fruition, a more accurate analogy would be like my neighbor offering me free sky by sharing his box with me. Am I getting it for free illegally? Yes. Is it costing Sky any money? No, because I wouldnt pay for it if the neighbor moved away.

On a side note, I find your choice of using Sky a little funny as I not only have sky movies, but also pay for the sports package even though I have the technical knowledge to get it all for free. Funny that.

Maguined

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Not even remotely; think about it like this: somebody puts his/her TV outside their front door and shows a movie on Sky, you see and decide to watch, even if you wouldn't have been wanting to watch that one specific movie. The fact you're watching has no influence whatsoever on Sky's profit.

There WILL be the one who wanted to watch that specific movie and would have bought, and that's where the concept of piracy becomes a problem, but the point stands - it's not always the case.

Back in the heyday of pirate game CDs/DVDs sold withe the formula of "3 for 10 Euro" near the University I attended in Italy and passing discs to copy amongst coursemates, I would routinely come home with games I hadn't even heard about before - just because either one mate happened to have it and I burned a copy on the fly.

No one is putting their tv out their front door. You are not being invited to watch, you don't accidentally pirate a game. It is a concious choice the same as breaking into someones home and watching their paid for TV channels but as long as you do no damage while breaking into their home then no harm is done.

Mickeroo

Maguined wrote: »

No one is putting their tv out their front door. You are not being invited to watch, you don't accidentally pirate a game. It is a concious choice the same as breaking into someones home and watching their paid for TV channels but as long as you do no damage while breaking into their home then no harm is done.

Think of the front lawn as a torrent site and your neighbour as the uploader/originator of the content. In some cases it might not be your neighbour but someone who stole the tv that's putting it on the lawn of course. Either way, you're never the one breaking in.

Kirby

Maguined wrote: »

No one is putting their tv out their front door. You are not being invited to watch, you don't accidentally pirate a game. It is a concious choice the same as breaking into someones home and watching their paid for TV channels but as long as you do no damage while breaking into their home then no harm is done.

Are you really equating breaking into somebody house to copyright infringement? Really?y

Shiminay

If you're going to equate actively stealing copyrighted work to "picking up a free pen" then yea, the comparisons are about as accurate as each other. :rolleyes:

ancapailldorcha

Kirby wrote: »

Are you really equating breaking into somebody house to copyright infringement? Really?y

That's a bit ridiculous in fairness. I've been burgled and it was awful.

As I said above, it's a service issue. I used to pirate films and music all the time. Games not so much. Then Steam made it so easy to get 'em legally. And cheap too.

Maguined

Mickeroo wrote: »

Think of the front lawn as a torrent site and your neighbour as the uploader/originator of the content. In some cases it might not be your neighbour but someone who stole the tv that's putting it on the lawn of course. Either way, you're never the one breaking in.

Downloading requires active participation, it is not the same as a neighbour putting their tv on a front lawn. There is no legal obligation on a viewer only the person who is paying for the TV. If a pub is not paying for a comemrcial license and instead gets regular residential TV package to show to all their customers the pub owner gets in trouble and the customers have not done anything illegal by watching. This is not the same when you download cracked games, the consumer is responsible as they are actively contributing.

Kirby wrote: »

Are you really equating breaking into somebody house to copyright infringement? Really?y

Hey I was just refuting your free pen analogy. You equated downloading cracked games to someone offering you a free pen. What is the harm in breaking into someones home if there is no darmage done and no harm. It's a victimless crime then. :pac:

seamus

I would have pirated a little bit back in the day - mostly games that were 2 or 3 years old but places were still asking €50 for a copy. Or really old games that are unavailable any more.

Steam, GOG, Humble Bundle, etc though has done away with all that. Easier to pay a small fee to have them in the library than downloading dodgy content.

Don't have time these days to play the games I do have, never mind pirating old ones to play.

Kirby

Shiminay wrote: »

If you're going to equate actively stealing copyrighted work to "picking up a free pen" then yea, the comparisons are about as accurate as each other. :rolleyes:

You can keep calling it stealing but it isnt stealing. It's copyright infringement. Calling it stealing is more evocative but its also incorrect. So you can use hyperbole and be wrong, or use the accurate language and be right.

If I offered you a free game right now and you took it.....are you stealing? No. You arent. And you know this. You are illegally infringing on copyright. You havent stolen a damned thing.

By the way, the little PCMR guy in your sig is copyrighted. Did you steal that? Did you pay a license fee to use it? Of course not. So lets live in the land of reality please.

H3llR4iser

Maguined wrote: »

No one is putting their tv out their front door.

For real? That was a purely hypothetical, absurd example to explain how people do not have to "need" something in order to take it if it was offered for free.

Shiminay

Kirby wrote: »

You can keep calling it stealing but it isnt stealing. It's copyright infringement. Calling it stealing is more evocative but its also incorrect. So you can use hyperbole and be wrong, or use the accurate language and be right.

If I offered you a free game right now and you took it.....are you stealing? No. You arent. And you know this. You are illegally infringing on copyright. You havent stolen a damned thing.

By the way, the little PCMR guy in your sig is copyrighted. Did you steal that? Did you pay a license fee to use it? Of course not. So lets live in the land of reality please.

Going to a torrent site and getting a game that has been put there for people to steal/infringe (if you want to argue semantics of language go ahead, it amounts to the same thing) is not even remotely similar to a company saying "here, have a free sample." and if you're going to talk about accuracy then let's start there. If you think that using a service that facilitates infringement of copyright is even slightly the same thing as the copyright holder inviting you to take it then I strongly urge you to start looking at the land of reality as you put it.

Was the logo in my sig monetised? Is the original copyright holder losing out by my using it? Did the original copyright holder put it out there to be shared and used as he saw fit? Did he ever assert his claims over it? Have I ever tried to claim it as my own? Have I ever tried to profit off it? Copyrighted material can still be public domain, but that doesn't make it any less copyrighted. See the Happy Birthday song for the perfect example. Someone owns that, but they said we can sing it to each other at a party, but it cannot be used by businesses or to sell anything - such is the nature of it's copyright.

Maguined

H3llR4iser wrote: »

For real? That was a purely hypothetical, absurd example to explain how people do not have to "need" something in order to take it if it was offered for free.

It is this bit that I was refuting. Shiminay has already posted a better explanation than I could of someone offering you a free sample is not the same thing as torrenting cracked copies of games.

Kirby

Shiminay wrote: »

not even remotely similar to a company saying "here, have a free sample."

Free samples?? Let's not strawman here. Nobody said anything about free samples.

Here shiminay. Here's a free game. Not a demo or free sample. The full game. Click here yo download it.


What have YOU stolen? Not a damned thing. You can try and obfuscate and dance around it all day but it speaks for itself. Copyright infringement is not stealing.

And the answer to each of your questions posed is the exact same for a pirated halo5 as it is for a pirated pcmr gif.

Shiminay

Infringement: "You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means"

I am not infringing Yahtzee's copyright by using the PCMR logo in my sig. I *AM* infringing someone's copyright if I'm taking their product that they have created with the express intention of selling for profit, that has a price and is for sale, and using it without compensating them.

There can be no clearer way to say this.

Common sense AND the law state that this is how it works. You're the one talking about taking free things that have been offered for free - the pens in your earlier analogy, the game you're now offering me, Yahtzee's PCMR Logo - they have all been offered to me to use by the person who owns it or who has the legal rights to give it away.

At no stage has a publisher/creator who's work you are downloading via a torrent site (for example) offered this product for free. They have invited me to buy the product only and so acquiring it by any other means is theft. I am baffled as to how you think that something being posted on a torrents site illegally is even remotely the same thing as an invitation from the owner to take it. The fact that we have DRM on games that has to be broken by others and posted to these same sites only re enforces my point - it is being taken and used against the express wishes of the owner. That is theft.

Kirby

Shiminay wrote: »

used against the express wishes of the owner. That is theft.

No it's not. It's copyright infringement. The law is quite clear on this. For example, when you buy a game...you are buying a license to use their product. You do not own the product....merely the license to use it. By pirating the game, you are using the product without a license. That is not theft. It is copyright infringement.

Theft. "You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means"

I'm going to outline the process of how game piracy works because I think you have this image in your head of people breaking into servers and stealing files while furiously typing on a keyboard. Thats not how it actually happens.

A gamestop employee makes a mistake and sells a game before the street date. Or the employee takes it home before the street date and uploads it himself. Or gives it to a friend. Or a review copy sent out weeks early gets into the wrong hands. Or somebody just walks into a store and buys it/downloads it on release day.

Thats how it happens. So a person obtains a game and uploads it. Illegally. It is then cracked and copied. A link is then posted on a site and a million people download it. There is a dozen laws broken in that chain for sure but nobody downloading the game is stealing anything.

Shiminay

So no actual response to the points I raised then? Grand so

Kirby

Well I dealt with it. Your entire post is based on a fallacy so everything that stems from the fallacy is irrelevant.. I could quote line by line and counter each thing individually but what would be the point? You don't know the legal difference between theft and copyright infringement. There isnt much to say beyond this.

Shiminay

Again, semantics of a single word, none of which addresses the points I raised about whether or not something has been offered for free or not.

But you know what? If it makes you feel big and clever, then sure, I will use the word infringement (def: the action of breaking the terms of a law, agreement, etc.; violation.) instead of stealing (def: take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.). Feel free to substitute it above as you see fit.

Kirby

Feel big and clever? No need to get personal. You could just say "Yeah, I was wrong".

You can use whatever word you want. You arent using my word......it's what its actually called. It's not semantics. It's the law.

kowloon

With games at the price they are, I can buy more on Humble Bundle and in Steam sales than I'll ever get the time to play. Only very rarely will I buy something near release for full price.

Dave_The_Sheep

Piracy isn't A-OK. Most of us do it (not necessarily with games, but with TV, or music or films say) and we know we're getting something we should ordinarily pay for (one way or another) without paying for it. Should we? No. Do we? Yes. Why? Various reasons and justifications, mostly boiling down to "I want it and don't think I should/want to pay for it". Am I going to lose sleep over it? Nope. Doesn't justify it though.

I don't pirate games (unless they're old ones not available elsewhere anymore). I used to when I was a teenager. Now I don't, because I have money and there are quite a few places to get them legally and easily and affordably - and also because I care about video games and it's my hobby.
If I pirate TV shows and films and music, it's because I don't really care about them. They're just filler. They don't matter to me so I don't care.

That said, it's not theft. Theft (for me) implies someone else has lost something. Piracy is something different, if you make a copy the original is still there, you're not denying an items use for someone else. It's not even a loss of earnings (all the time - though in some cases it certainly could be).

Needs a different definition for a different course of action.

Robert ninja

Almost all laws regarding these issues in modern times are severely outdated.

As for other mediums like say music, radio has been replaced by pirating, youtube etc. People still find out what kind of directors, artists and genres appeal to them via pirating it. However, the cost of music versus how much music you listen to, it would be unrealistic for a person to buy them all. They're not enjoyed in the same context, capacity or frequency as games. I for one also don't use music services because they datatrack too hard for my taste and don't even benefit smaller artists that I might want to support.

In the end the result for me is the same. Buy seldom and support your favourite media from devs/publishers/directors who cater to you.

EoinHef

Well we got nearly 6 pages without a disgreement.....didnt think we would get that far to be honest. It was turning into more of a confession theread though!!

We should all say some hail mary's for are oul pirating sins!!

Rezident

EoinHef wrote: »

I dont think iver ever pirated a game,be it console,handheld or PC.

Im not on any moral high horse here either,i just never have,dont think theres a reason i havent,cant think of one anyway.

Same as. Different story with TV and music admittedly but I have never pirated a game because I genuinely want to support the gaming industry as it gives me so much joy and I think some of the developers are amazing and totally worth supporting.

Icyseanfitz

as many here i used to do it a fair bit when i was younger. but with steam sales, gog, humble bundle and key resellers etc. its become a lot less hassle to just buy the game.
I will say though i pirated no mans sky just to see how it would run on my setup what with all the mixed information. Turns out pretty well so il buy it when it gets to the 30-40 euro mark

Dair76

I've never pirated a game, although I may have downloaded torrents for other software back in the day.

Kiith

The only games i've pirated in the last few years are games that are not available on any online stores.

Back in college, I used to pirate all the time. I'd like to say that it was simply because i was a broke college student, but even if i had extra money, i probably wouldn't have bought them. Nowadays, Steam and other online distribution sites have made things so simple that i've no need to pirate anything.

Spotify is the perfect example of how a good service, at a low price, can stop piracy. I've never bought an album and used to pirate all my music. But i've not pirated any music in years now, since Spotify came along.

I've been trying to save money in all aspects of my life; pirating games seemed like a natural progression.

Shiminay

Kiith wrote: »

Spotify is the perfect example of how a good service, at a low price, can stop piracy. I've never bought an album and used to pirate all my music. But i've not pirated any music in years now, since Spotify came along.

And yet some (not all) artists say that you're probably as well off pirating rather than using Spotify cause they pay them next to nothing But if you actually want to support a band, buy a t-shirt off them at a gig, that's the most direct way of putting money in their pocket

Taylor365

I pirate small games to give them ago.

I then buy the ones that i like. (FTL, Kingdom, Terraria, Sunless Sea, etc.)

I don't bother with most larger titles at all.

Skerries

results are in and...

ancapailldorcha

Skerries wrote: »

results are in and...

Could have been a lot worse.

Skerries

not bad considering they are being skewed higher from poorer countries

ShadowHearth

Kind of makes sense.

As I said before, I was born in Lithuania and Lithuania was even mentioned as having high rate of piracy. We all had to if we wanted to play. Was it a right thing to do? No. I live in Ireland for the last 11 years and i don't pirate. I don't make big money, but it's definitely affordable.
No surprise seeing pirated games being strong in poor countries. Some developers really out of touch when it comes to pricing. I haven't been in Lithuania 11 years so I don't know how prices are there now, but you know what was situation 11 years ago as I said in previous post. That's the reason why pc gaming is so popular and console gaming is so low in lithuania.

Now I won't try to justify myself as ex pirate, but devs should look at this: I pirated for years as I couldn't not afford it, but gaming was always my most loved hobby even now that I am 30. When I was able at 19 to pay for my games, well, I did pay for them! Now all of these developers made thousands from me.
So in a nut shell I don't look down on young pirates or low income ones. I was like this before. If i would go by rule some people have: if you can't afford, don't play! Piracy is stealing. Then I would never get a passion for games and would not be a cash cow to all these developers.

I guess just my 2 cent. Take it for what's it's worth.

DARK-KNIGHT

I have never pirated a game but im tempted to do so with no mans sky as its broken as hell i have read

DARK-KNIGHT

Kiith wrote: »

The only games i've pirated in the last few years are games that are not available on any online stores.

Back in college, I used to pirate all the time. I'd like to say that it was simply because i was a broke college student, but even if i had extra money, i probably wouldn't have bought them. Nowadays, Steam and other online distribution sites have made things so simple that i've no need to pirate anything.

Spotify is the perfect example of how a good service, at a low price, can stop piracy. I've never bought an album and used to pirate all my music. But i've not pirated any music in years now, since Spotify came along.

what games are not available in online stores? what am i missing here lol

FAILSAFE 00

I'd never pirate a survey. Just to let everyone know. I support the survey creators.

wandatowell

Thankfully I've no financial need to pirate and I really enjoy the hunt for a bargain.

With AAA titles going for sub €30 quid on the week of release it's hard for the average gamer to justify it.

K.O.Kiki

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

I have never pirated a game but im tempted to do so with no mans sky as its broken as hell i have read

Or.
OR.

Don't play the game & play something else.

Ya scummer.

Taylor365

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Kind of makes sense.

As I said before, I was born in Lithuania

Labas, kaip sekasi?! :pac:

J_E

Steam pretty much killed my desire to pirate anything. Gabe Newell has said it before, piracy tends to die out when you offer a great service in a convenient way. That's why digital downloading killed DVD as a medium so much, and I will bet Netflix staved off a lot of that..

pcuser

I used to pirate all my games a few years back, Generally they were old games that could not be bought at the time as I was using a laptop.

I built my 1st PC almost a year ago and the 1st day it was built I Dloaded a pirated version of GTA 5 and Farm Simulator. I actually deleted both games before I installed them and decided I would buy them. I could justify pirating a few years back when it was old games and I was broke in college, It doesnt mean it was right it was just my way of justifying it. Now im financially comfortable and it just doesnt seem right with the price of PC games and steam.

J_E wrote: »

. Gabe Newell has said it before, piracy tends to die out when you offer a great service in a convenient way. That's why digital downloading killed DVD as a medium so much, and I will bet Netflix staved off a lot of that..

I agree 100% we started using Netflix a few months back and I dont think I have pirated any movies since, The recommendations based on my viewing activity is spot on and I have managed to watch some great movies I normally would not have ever watched,

764dak

Many free PC games exist.

VinLieger

764dak wrote: »

Many free PC games exist.

True but doesnt really have anything to do with a discussion on piracy