UFC 202 Event Thread: Diaz v McGregor 2 (Information in OP)

Mellor

McGregor via Submission

wonderfullife wrote: »

If you mean prioritising and not cornering a fighter is throwing them under the bus, then yes. If that's your take, he threw James Gallagher under the bus at the weekend.

My take is - If your sole UFC World Champion (and biggest star in MMA) is a week out from a huge fight, the Head Coach should be there overseeing every step of that training camp - and not ringside at a comparatively Micky Mouse BAMMA event.

He doesn't have to choose one or the other. He being at BAMMA means he's not in Vegas for one weekend. At that point, his his training camp is over, the work is done. with modern technology it's relatively easy for John to stay in close contact.

Conor did dominate Round 1 in my view. He at least won the round which we can all concede.

More of the same would have been absolutely fine advice other than the fact Kavanagh admitted post-fight it's the most tired he's ever seen Conor after 1 round.

Which is why he told him not to continue to fight like that.

You are using the fact that Conor didn't listen as some story criticism of John advice. Which is bizarre. Conor fought his own fight, he wasn't responding to what his John and Owen were saying at the break or during the round. That's a Conor problem, not a John problem.

It's easy to post analysis, and posted after the fact, with the benefit of hindsight. One of the things that stood out for me in the aftermath was of 196 was that John's real time advice was pretty spot on.

He should have beaten him over the head with a stick to slow the pace of the fight.

You can lead a horse to water...

darced

Diaz via Submission

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wonderfullife

McGregor via Submission

Mellor wrote: »

He doesn't have to choose one or the other. He being at BAMMA means he's not in Vegas for one weekend. At that point, his his training camp is over, the work is done. with modern technology it's relatively easy for John to stay in close contact.


Which is why he told him not to continue to fight like that.

You are using the fact that Conor didn't listen as some story criticism of John advice. Which is bizarre. Conor fought his own fight, he wasn't responding to what his John and Owen were saying at the break or during the round. That's a Conor problem, not a John problem.

It's easy to post analysis, and posted after the fact, with the benefit of hindsight. One of the things that stood out for me in the aftermath was of 196 was that John's real time advice was pretty spot on.

You can lead a horse to water...

I'd like to hope if John was there he wouldn't have been allowing/recommending Conor to hang off gymnastic rings with Ido and doing muscle ups 7 days before a huge fight!

And a problem in communication is a John problem as much as a Conor problem IMO.

If the advice is going in one ear, out the other ...that's a worrying sign going forwards as a Coach and something he should try rectify.

Mellor

McGregor via Submission

hefferboi wrote: »

Would John get credit for Gunni's bjj or did he move to SBG when he was already at a high level?

Before John/SBG Gunni was doing karate, he had little grappling experience.
John held a BJJ seminar in Iceland in 2006, when Gunni was 17.
Gunni became hooked and moved to Dublin shortly afterwards when he turned 18 to train at SBG/live with John.

edits: dates/ages added above. I think that's roughly right, may not be perfect.
http://fightland.vice.com/blog/fightland-meets-gunnar-nelson-and-conor-mcgregors-coach

darced

Diaz via Submission

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wonderfullife

McGregor via Submission

Back on topic -

Anyone else have deep misgivings about him even fighting Nate again?

If he wins he moves to 1-1 against Nate who will want the trilogy fight to settle it. Conor admitted a trilogy is likely.

If he loses, it's 2 straight losses on the bounce to someone who was coming off a 1-3 stretch beforehand and not really a player in the 155lb picture.

He doesn't really have a whole lot to gain from this fight other than money and pride.

Nate doesn't have a whole lot to lose from the fight.

There were solid and historic reasons for fighting RDA in march and events unfolded as they did.

I feel like he's on a hiding to nothing in the next fight - especially if victory doesn't come in an explosive fashion.

darced

Diaz via Submission

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wonderfullife

McGregor via Submission

darced wrote: »

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It's crazy to think it but his fall could be as meteoric as his rise.

If he loses to Nate he literally has nowhere to go other than Jose Aldo.

A loss there to Aldo and he's 0-3 for the year - from the man who said "every year is my F***ing year". All of that is very possible - even though i strongly fancy him to get past Nate, it's still a fight at the end of the day.

His star power is probably big enough to withstand a 0-3 stretch and still be a PPV draw but he'd be in deep waters and i can't see Justin Timberlake wanting to hang with him after a 0-3 stretch :pac:

All i meant re: Nate is that the 2012-2015 stretch, losing to Benson, Thompson and RDA had kinda put him down the pecking order quite a lot, not that he isn't a contender.

The only upshot if Conor wins he'd likely be able to go straight to Eddie Alvarez, by-passing Aldo entirely (if he's not fussed about defending the belt or just can't face the weight cut).

Still, that's a pretty slim upshot.

---

I took a lot of heat for my analysis and "fanboy" of Conor earlier on but truth of the matter is i really believe he's an exceptional martial artist and beneath all the bravado he seems a really nice fella.

I'm worried Eddie Alvarez is right when he says Conor is not a championship fighter.

I.e. That Conor is basically a male Amanda Nunes. Weather the storm for 2 rounds and you'll end up beating him.

I hope it isn't the case and the Holloway fight gives me hope that the first loss to Nate was more down to cardio and a poor game-plan than just being outmatched.

We'll find out in a month i guess!

SureYWouldntYa

darced wrote: »

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Don't think he's done, at least in terms of being a draw.

If he loses to both Nate and Aldo in his next 2 fights, you then set him up as the guy who had it all and got too big and lost it all, the big redemption story

The same way they'll portray Ronda if she does come back

Mellor

McGregor via Submission

darced wrote: »

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Agreed. He's a much better litmus test than any one else at SBG.

darced wrote: »

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I don't think he ever left SBG (maybe I'm wrong). My understanding was he had trained with Renzo on and off after meeting him in Iceland. And after ADCC he was training for NoGI worlds there. And needed to be promoted to blackbelt to enter. John wasn't able to award him a black belt at the time.

JokerD

Condit v Maia moved from this to the main event for the Vancouver card.

Tigger

McGregor via Submission

DeVore wrote: »

That video is a relatively good analysis I think. It basically boils down to what I said before, McGregor punched himself out and lost his biggest asset, his movement. He has *woeful* hand defense as he has always preferred to bob and weave (amazingly well) and use his hands then as counter attack which in a sense is meta-game defense as his opponents are worrying about the counter attack before they throw anything.

In the first round it really DID seem like McGregor was doing things right, he was battering Diaz around and looked like a possible stop at one point but Diaz has Mcgregor's kryptonite.... a rock solid chin. Diaz didn't do anything particularly clever except survive some shots that would murder a 145'er. He kinda smashed his face against McGregors fists until McGregor got too tired to dodge and decided to take it to the ground in desperation. Diaz is excellent on the ground and I expect to see him perhaps take it there earlier this time.

Either McGregor points this over 3 rounds by fighting smart or Diaz wins this on the ground imho.

5 rounds?

Myrddin

Tigger wrote: »

5 rounds?

Win 3 of 5?

noc1980

I'm struggling to see how Conor can improve his cardio so much that he can go from out on his feet in a round and a half to lasting 5 rounds, in the space of a few months. He's only real shot at ending Nate earlier is a cut stoppage, he's not knocking Nate out and there's no shame in that, nobody has ever managed to.

Just seems like the worst possible matchup for Conor, his height and reach advantage, his power, his mind games, all redundant against Nate. Unless he deploys a radically different strategy in the rematch, one that includes chopping away at Nate's legs and body with kicks, it's hard to see an outcome different from the first fight.

Lukker-

noc1980 wrote: »

I'm struggling to see how Conor can improve his cardio so much that he can go from out on his feet in a round and a half to lasting 5 rounds, in the space of a few months..

EPO

Todd Toddington III

McGregor via Submission

noc1980 wrote: »

I'm struggling to see how Conor can improve his cardio so much that he can go from out on his feet in a round and a half to lasting 5 rounds, in the space of a few months. He's only real shot at ending Nate earlier is a cut stoppage, he's not knocking Nate out and there's no shame in that, nobody has ever managed to.

Just seems like the worst possible matchup for Conor, his height and reach advantage, his power, his mind games, all redundant against Nate. Unless he deploys a radically different strategy in the rematch, one that includes chopping away at Nate's legs and body with kicks, it's hard to see an outcome different from the first fight.

Watched the fight again last night, his game wasn't up to his usual standards. Very little movement, always trying to throw the uppercut. The couple of times he did go for the legs you could see he hurt nate...its crazy how out of juice he was in that 2nd round, he was blowing real hard. Got caught by nate then with a lot of nice shots. Put it this way, his strategy can only get better

Mellor

McGregor via Submission

noc1980 wrote: »

I'm struggling to see how Conor can improve his cardio so much that he can go from out on his feet in a round and a half to lasting 5 rounds, in the space of a few months.

I never get why people talk about cardio in MMA as if it's set property, every minute/round is equal. Clearly not the case. The harder you go, the quicker you tire, that applies to everyone.

How fast can you run 400m? Close to 70seconds, maybe. What ever that is, won't keep it for 5km. Nobody can, not even the elite.

Why is fighting any different? Hit a punch bag with normal jab cross combos. 2, 3 mins feels fine. Now smash it with power shots. 60 seconds feels exhausting. Look st the intensity of the strikes Conor was throwing at Siver verses Diaz, completely different and his cardio looked completely different.

He's only real shot at ending Nate earlier is a cut stoppage, he's not knocking Nate out and there's no shame in that, nobody has ever managed to. .

Josh Thompson stopped Nate with strikes (not a cut).

Utopia Parkway

noc1980 wrote: »

I'm struggling to see how Conor can improve his cardio so much that he can go from out on his feet in a round and a half to lasting 5 rounds, in the space of a few months.

Why not? Improving cardio should be one of the easier things to rectify. Although it also depends on what pace you fight at. Start off at 100mph and obviously more chance you empty your gas tank sooner.

Utopia Parkway

Todd Toddington III wrote: »

Watched the fight again last night, his game wasn't up to his usual standards. Very little movement, always trying to throw the uppercut. The couple of times he did go for the legs you could see he hurt nate...its crazy how out of juice he was in that 2nd round, he was blowing real hard. Got caught by nate then with a lot of nice shots. Put it this way, his strategy can only get better

Thought he looked sluggish even in then first round when he had energy. He wasn't bouncing around on the balls of his feet like he often does. He just kind of plodded forward looking to throw haymakers. Maybe the extra weight made him feel heavy so to speak.

darced

Diaz via Submission

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Mellor

McGregor via Submission

Mellor wrote: »

I never get why people talk about cardio in MMA as if it's set property, every minute/round is equal. Clearly not the case. The harder you go, the quicker you tire, that applies to everyone.

How fast can you run 400m? Close to 70seconds, maybe. What ever that is, won't keep it for 5km. Nobody can, not even the elite.

Why is fighting any different? Hit a punch bag with normal jab cross combos. 2, 3 mins feels fine. Now smash it with power shots. 60 seconds feels exhausting. Look st the intensity of the strikes Conor was throwing at Siver verses Diaz, completely different and his cardio looked completely different.


Josh Thompson stopped Nate with strikes (not a cut).

Yeah if i remember right it was with a kick that was so hard it would have knocked anyone else out but Nate was still protecting on the ground and there was some nasty follow up strikes and the fight eventually got stopped but Nate was always protecting but was rightly out of it. Conors left hand isn't going to ever be as hard as that kick, I know Nate has been stopped but never purely by punches (it was thompsons kick that did the damage).

Mellor

McGregor via Submission

Yeah it was a kick. His corner attempted to throw in the towel. But ref stopped it on his own accord.
Saying "he's never been stopped with a punch" is sort of moving the goal posts though.
Might as well bring up that Conor has never been stopped while we're at it.

Mellor

McGregor via Submission

Mellor wrote: »

Yeah it was a kick. His corner attempted to throw in the towel. But ref stopped it on his own accord.
Saying "he's never been stopped with a punch" is sort of moving the goal posts though.
Might as well bring up that Conor has never been stopped while we're at it.

Yeah but I have seen Nate submit people before and I have seen Conor being submitted before. I cant see Conor submitting Nate, I can maybe possibly although unlikely maybe seeing him stopping Nate via tko and maybe Conor might win via decision.

What I am saying is Nate has many more ways to likely win than Conor. Nate is more likely to win by Decision, Sub or even maybe tko..... I love Conor and War Conor but Nate seems to be most likely here.

Mellor

McGregor via Submission

Deleted User wrote: »

... Nate seems to be most likely here.

I'm not denying that. I think the odds are stacked agaisnt Conor.
I'm just saying that saying "Nobody has ever managed to stop Nate", or words to the effect, isn't accurate.

RedemptionZ

Hard to see anything but a Diaz win. Oh how different things could have been if Dos Anjos never got inured.

Wailin

Diaz via Decision

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Hard to see anything but a Diaz win. Oh how different things could have been if Dos Anjos never got inured.

You think he would have beaten RDA?? For real?!

RedemptionZ

Wailin wrote: »

You think he would have beaten RDA?? For real?!

Yes. And I think Mendes and Edgar would have a good chance against Nate. Different fighters different weaknesses.

Wailin

Diaz via Decision

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Yes. And I think Mendes and Edgar would have a good chance against Nate. Different fighters different weaknesses.

He was gassed after 1 round! RDA would have destroyed him.

RedemptionZ

Wailin wrote: »

He was gassed after 1 round! RDA would have destroyed him.

It would have been fought at a different weight. Probably wouldn't have gone past the second round anyway. Not relevant now, opportunity is over and McGregor is stuck in this stupid fight with Diaz. Should have just accepted the loss and gone back for a few 145 fights to get some momentum back.

hefferboi

I think the loss to Diaz will be the best thing to ever happen McGregor.