5x5 for beginners only??

Wailin

I'm not a beginner, just to be clear. Took a few months off from training for various reasons and by fcuk have my lifts suffered, squats in particular. So I thought I'd give 5x5 a go since it was what I started on a few yrs back to get squats and DL back up.

Downloaded the app and when I put in my max weights I get ridiculously small figure to start out with (60kg on the squat, 70 DL for example). I'm now at 85kg on the squat (cheated a bit to get weight up) but with 20-30sec rest between sets it's doing nothing for me, even with added accessory work such as weighted pull ups, dips etc.

Is it a pointless exercise for me and only a beginners program or should I stick it out for the 12 weeks?

Alf Veedersane

Progress is slow because there's not much volume.

Here's a simple programme with the kind of volume you need:

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057311400/1

Mellor

Wailin wrote: »

I'm not a beginner, just to be clear. Took a few months off from training for various reasons and by fcuk have my lifts suffered, squats in particular. So I thought I'd give 5x5 a go since it was what I started on a few yrs back to get squats and DL back up.

Downloaded the app and when I put in my max weights I get ridiculously small figure to start out with (60kg on the squat, 70 DL for example). I'm now at 85kg on the squat (cheated a bit to get weight up) but with 20-30sec rest between sets it's doing nothing for me, even with added accessory work such as weighted pull ups, dips etc.

Is it a pointless exercise for me and only a beginners program or should I stick it out for the 12 weeks?

If starting ridiculously light because you doing the beginners set up. Beginners start at 20kg bar at times.

What is you current 5RM or max in each of the lifts?

Wailin

Mellor wrote: »

If starting ridiculously light because you doing the beginners set up. Beginners start at 20kg bar at times.

What is you current 5RM or max in each of the lifts?

It's not actually the beginners set up. The app asks for your max lift then calculates a 12 week program so at the end you'll be able to do 5x5 of your max lift. So in my case squat is 155 and DL is 175 ( actually...was, since i stopped for awhile all lifts a down obviously, reason why i am doing 5x5 to get back).

I just find the last 2 weeks too easy doing 5x5 of 60 initially. I upped it to 85 this week as it's ridiculous but not sure if that will have negative affects later on?

Mellor

Wailin wrote: »

It's not actually the beginners set up. The app asks for your max lift then calculates a 12 week program so at the end you'll be able to do 5x5 of your max lift. So in my case squat is 155 and DL is 175 ( actually...was, since i stopped for awhile all lifts a down obviously, reason why i am doing 5x5 to get back).

I'd consider that to be the beginner set up tbh. It's geared towards people coming in with a very low base. When you've got an established squat, it throws up a lot of pointless loads at the start. (ie Less that 40%)

What are the increases session to session?
To get from 60kg to 155kg in 12 weeks you'll be adding 8.5kg on average.
Started at 60, adding 2.5 three times a week gets you to 147.5kg in 12 weeks.
I'd probably consider jumping ahead to the heavier loads, or doing a different variation.

Bear in mind, it should be based on current 1RM/5RM. A 155kg squat previous is less relevant if you can't do it now. What's you form/depth like? a big deload/reload like the above is the perfect time to correct squat form or depth issues. While obviously I've no clue what you squat looks like, it appears to be quite close to your deadlift. Assume you are lifting in a squat suit, that usually means;

1. You are squatting high
2. You are crap at deadlifts and not pulling your potential
3. You are built to squat, but not deadlift

Probability of each decreases a huge amount as you go down the list.

Wailin

Mellor wrote: »

I'd consider that to be the beginner set up tbh. It's geared towards people coming in with a very low base. When you've got an established squat, it throws up a lot of pointless loads at the start. (ie Less that 40%)

What are the increases session to session?
To get from 60kg to 155kg in 12 weeks you'll be adding 8.5kg on average.
Started at 60, adding 2.5 three times a week gets you to 147.5kg in 12 weeks.
I'd probably consider jumping ahead to the heavier loads, or doing a different variation.

Bear in mind, it should be based on current 1RM/5RM. A 155kg squat previous is less relevant if you can't do it now. What's you form/depth like? a big deload/reload like the above is the perfect time to correct squat form or depth issues. While obviously I've no clue what you squat looks like, it appears to be quite close to your deadlift. Assume you are lifting in a squat suit, that usually means;

1. You are squatting high
2. You are crap at deadlifts and not pulling your potential
3. You are built to squat, but not deadlift

Probability of each decreases a huge amount as you go down the list.

Yeah I doubt I could do it now. I think I may have put in 140kg on the app as my max squat now that you say it. Here is a 150kg squat I filmed, form is fine (or so I feel, correct me!)....same for deadlift. Your right about using high squat though. I think most people find the deadlift about 10-20% higher than squat so my difference between the 2 is fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5ZlKO6y5Ok

Mellor

Wailin wrote: »

Yeah I doubt I could do it now. I think I may have put in 140kg on the app as my max squat now that you say it. Here is a 150kg squat I filmed, form is fine (or so I feel, correct me!)....same for deadlift. Your right about using high squat though. I think most people find the deadlift about 10-20% higher than squat so my difference between the 2 is fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5ZlKO6y5Ok

Depth looks fine. You'll have that back in no time.
Jump ahead to a weight you feel like you are working then. No point plugging away at 60kg imo.

From memory Madcow (an advanced 5x5 variation) works off hitting your 5rm after 4 weeks

Alf Veedersane

Mellor wrote: »

From memory Madcow (an advanced 5x5 variation) works off hitting your 5rm after 4 weeks

With Madcow you get to pick when you match/hit PRs by but 4 is the default.

Mellor

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

With Madcow you get to pick when you match/hit PRs by but 4 is the default.

Well that's the how the program was written afaik. But you edit the spreadsheets to hit them whenever, same as in SS/SL.
4 is a good number imo.

Alf Veedersane

Mellor wrote: »

4 is a good number imo.

It is. Except for OHP unless you have a full suite of fractionals

Mellor

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It is. Except for OHP unless you have a full suite of fractionals

You've lost me there. It's a slow one to progress. But not sure how that affects the weeks.
If 60kg is your 5RM, then it's the poxy spot whether you do it in week 4 or 6.

Alf Veedersane

Mellor wrote: »

You've lost me there. It's a slow one to progress. But not sure how that affects the weeks.
If 60kg is your 5RM, then it's the poxy spot whether you do it in week 4 or 6.

I wasnt being entirely serious but it was a hard one to up the weight in continuously for 8 weeks. It was doing Madcow that made me get the 0.5 plates

Mellor

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I wasnt being entirely serious but it was a hard one to up the weight in continuously for 8 weeks. It was doing Madcow that made me get the 0.5 plates

Ah ok, thought I was missing something.
OHP was the reason I got .5kg's too. Before that I was progressing in 1.25kg increments by adding a 1.25kg to one side at a time.