Aggressive behaviour among cyclists

NUTLEY BOY

buffalo wrote: »

As much as the guy sounds like he could be a wanker, maybe the concept of shared space is the problem here.

If the school children were waiting on the tarmac of the dual carriageway, what would you expect to happen? If someone beeped their horn, would that be arrogant, or a warning of potential danger?

I agree with you fully about the shared space problem at quite a number of locations including this one. In some instances I regard the layouts as being defectively engineered in the first instance.

The school children were not on the tarmac of the dual carriageway so that analogous argument just does not carry IMHO. If they were on the tarmac on the road I would expect them to be hooted out of it and quite rightly.

What I did expect was that the cyclist would conduct himself to the same standard of care required of all road users namely that of reasonable care as distinct from being insufferably overbearing. The very existence of a shared space places a significant legal duty of care on the cyclist approaching to do so correctly with proper consideration of what lies in front of him.

As one judge put it many years ago, use of the highway rarely involves absolute rights and does involve some elements of inconvenience as well as give and take. Unfortunately, this is applied by some to mean that they take and everyone else gives.

magicbastarder

regarding stress, i reckon what kept me sane during a stressful period in my job years ago was the cycle to and from work. not that i had any real hills to deal with - blanchardstown to leopardstown - the uphill sections were good to take stress out on.

endagibson

I did ask for an example...

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

Bus stop beside Foxrock Church going south. Lots of school kids waiting for 46A or 145. Cyclist comes downhill from Stillorgan direction at considerable speed. His priority was to gesticulate wildly at all assembled at the stop to get to hell out of his way so as to facilitate him lashing through. Luckily the kids got out of his way in time.

Conversations about the inadequacies of "shared space" aside, the behaviour described above was not acceptable.

However, if one wished to look for a silver lining in that particular cloud, I doubt that this chap's behaviour magically improves when in a car. Best that he's on a bike really rather than 1,500kg+ of motorised vehicle.

rtmie

Maybe I should do some research before posting this question but hey ho.
Is there a motoring/car driving forum on boards? And if so do people post to it asking motoring enthusiasts on said forum to take responsibility for any piece bad driving/bad behaviour by a driver that they encounter?

magicbastarder

rtmie wrote: »

Is there a motoring/car driving forum on boards? And if so do people post to it asking motoring enthusiasts on said forum to take responsibility for any piece bad driving/bad behaviour by a driver that they encounter?

on the first question, yes. second question, i couldn't say.

tomasrojo

endagibson wrote: »

Conversations about the inadequacies of "shared space" aside, the behaviour described above was not acceptable.

Also, those off-road cycle tracks that go by bus stops usually have Yield triangles at the point they meet the bus stop. Not that bullying school children would be ok if there weren't Yield triangles.

Macy0161

rtmie wrote: »

Maybe I should do some research before posting this question but hey ho.
Is there a motoring/car driving forum on boards? And if so do people post to it asking motoring enthusiasts on said forum to take responsibility for any piece bad driving/bad behaviour by a driver that they encounter?

There's normally several threads on the first page giving out about enforcement. Today's one is on the N7 average speed camera's. "Do as I say, not as I do"....

Dermot Illogical

Cyclists have collective responsibility, motorists individual.
Every time some numpty runs a red on a bike, I'm to blame because I also have a bike. That's just the way things are.

rtmie wrote: »

Maybe I should do some research before posting this question but hey ho.
Is there a motoring/car driving forum on boards? And if so do people post to it asking motoring enthusiasts on said forum to take responsibility for any piece bad driving/bad behaviour by a driver that they encounter?

endagibson

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

Cyclists have collective responsibility, motorists individual.
Every time some numpty runs a red on a bike, I'm to blame because I also have a bike. That's just the way things are.

Everytime a journalist writes one of "those" articles about cycling, we should all ask them when they are going to take responsibility for the death of Princess Diana.

tomasrojo

And Jayne Mansfield! They've been at it for decades.

CramCycle

Its really annoying when I check my voicemail and it says no new messages because they have already been listened to by Piers.

steamengine

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

In my experience most of the 'nut jobs' are on MTB's/hybrids/Dublin bikes and seem to feel that they have to prove themselves in the vicinity of a Lycra clad road cyclist.

Taking the space in front at the lights is a habit often exhibited by slower cyclists with no awareness of how frustrating it is for those who travel faster.

Is this shaping up similar to Mods and Rockers in Brighton in the 60's - Can we perhaps look forward to running battles on Bray's seafront in summers to come ?

Lycras versus the MTB'rs - must fix more mirrors on my MTB.

Beasty

steamengine wrote: »

Lycras versus the MTB'rs - must fix more mirrors on my MTB.

We've already been there

Not sure one particular forum regular wants reminding of his "duel" with mockler though...

buffalo

Pertinent post...

my eldest son and I took our bikes onto the subway and headed downtown for Summer Streets, which is this thing where they close Park Avenue and you can ride (or walk, or run, or unicycle, or skateboard, or Rollerblade, I saw them all) up and down Manhattan unmolested by drivers:

...

In all it was a very pleasant (if uncomfortably hot) morning. It's also worth noting that New York City cyclists get a lot of crap for salmoning and all the rest of it, but as it it turns out we're all quite civil when we're not under constant attack by drivers.

...

Though I bet you'll never guess which road users don't understand the concept of sharing:

http://gothamist.com/2016/08/14/shared_streets_experiment.php#photo-3

terrydel

Michelin wrote: »

I have often noticed anytime I'm in Dublin cycling about how its quite competitive for road space among commuter cyclists often cutting each other up but this morning while driving in my car (glad to be in it) I witnessed one cyclist thump another one when they were stopped at red just because the first lad bet him to the narrow space of the cycle path while double-decker buses where passing by.

Some nut job on racers out there!

Is there much experience of that here?

Anyone behaving like that, even just racing others while commuting, would want to take a good, hard look at themselves.

07Lapierre

I've seen plenty of rows between road users. The most common i've come across are:

Cyclist v Driver ( Verbal abuse, Hand gestures etc.)

Driver V Driver ( Car horn, Hand gestures etc.)

But I've never come across two road users actually assaulting each other!..
(I guess i need to get out more! )

Chips Lovell

I've seen it plenty of times. People getting out of their cars to bate the heads off each other.

Last one I saw was a Saturday evening on Parnell Street. Fella in a Micra hopped out and gestured at another car. Gravely underestimated his opposition. Turned out to be four guys half his age.

magicbastarder

i was kicked by a pedestrian once, when on my bike. i'd say he was about five years old, and his dad was mortified. he came off far worse than i did.

ThisRegard

Beasty wrote: »

Not sure one particular forum regular wants reminding of his "duel" with mockler though...

What became of him, did he retire from boards in a blaze of glory or still active under different name?

Or was he simply swept up by a pro team after his win and out there making his millions?

ThisRegard

07Lapierre wrote: »

But I've never come across two road users actually assaulting each other!..
(I guess i need to get out more! )

Years ago standing at a bus stop across from the Central Bank one rush hour evening and a courier on a motorbike and a guy in a trade van had some cross words for each other. The lights went red and each got out/off from their chosen mode of transport.

Both start laying into each other, the biker swinging his lock but the tradesman was well able for it.

The lights went green and bizarrely both instantly stopped fighting, jumped on/got in and off they went as if nothing happened.

Beasty

ThisRegard wrote: »

What became of him, did he retire from boards in a blaze of glory or still active under different name?

Or was he simply swept up by a pro team after his win and out there making his millions?

Still active under his original name

Stays clear of here though - suspect he fears a bit of mod rage:pac:

07Lapierre

ThisRegard wrote: »

Years ago standing at a bus stop across from the Central Bank one rush hour evening and a courier on a motorbike and a guy in a trade van had some cross words for each other. The lights went red and each got out/off from their chosen mode of transport.

Both start laying into each other, the biker swinging his lock but the tradesman was well able for it.

The lights went green and bizarrely both instantly stopped fighting, jumped on/got in and off they went as if nothing happened.

Thats Mad! I rarely cycle in Dublin city nowadays, so I'm obviously living a very sheltered life!

Beasty

Only yesterday saw one car smash into the back of another twice. No provocation and no reason for doing it on a clear national road.

Guy in the front car was far from happy jumping out of his car to confront the other driver (who promptly drove off into the distance)

ThisRegard

Like Beasty's example, there was another time I was sure I was about to see a fist fight. At a T-junction and a car came from behind me to turn right onto the main road. Car coming from the main road was turning left to where we were.

Right turning car cut the turn tight, left took it wide, and they hit head on. Both drivers were out like a light, inspected the damage, glanced at each other, got back in and drove off.

I can only assume both had a reason not to have the gardai or insurance involved (neither had it probably ).

odyssey06

I think this thread is descending into whataboutery...

mrcheez

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

In my experience most of the 'nut jobs' are on MTB's/hybrids/Dublin bikes and seem to feel that they have to prove themselves in the vicinity of a Lycra clad road cyclist.

Bit of a generalisation ?

I regularly have to overtake the majority of Lycra clad road cyclists while on my hybrid, if anything they are usually worse as more likely to be taking up entire bike lanes while cycling in parallel, but that's a whole other story

I've got nothing against people riding in parallel, but please don't take up the entire path while doing it

JBokeh

Everybody talks about how nice it is to cycle in the Netherlands. My own take on why this is, is because nobody cycles like they're in a mad hurry, they all just seem to tip away at a steady pace, no need for showers in the office because none of them broke sweat on the way in

Here when a light turns green it is like watching the start of a BMX race

LollipopJimmy

JBokeh wrote: »

Here when a light turns green it is like watching the start of a BMX race

It really is, along the canal around Harolds X and Rathmines is nuts in the mornings.

CramCycle

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

It really is, along the canal around Harolds X and Rathmines is nuts in the mornings.

I stopped cycling the canal route due to the behaviour of pedestrians, cyclists and motorists. The design only adds to the sense of overwhelming !/%#ish behaviour from everyone.

tomasrojo

Beasty wrote: »

Still active under his original name

Stays clear of here though - suspect he fears a bit of mod rage:pac:

Bit of a pity. He was provocative, but his prose style was lively and original.