Aggressive behaviour among cyclists

2RockMountain

I've never seen anything near a fist fight in all my years of cycling in Dublin. Somebody is grinding axes, I fear...

DanDublin1982

JBokeh wrote: »

Everybody talks about how nice it is to cycle in the Netherlands. My own take on why this is, is because nobody cycles like they're in a mad hurry, they all just seem to tip away at a steady pace, no need for showers in the office because none of them broke sweat on the way in

Here when a light turns green it is like watching the start of a BMX race

I've started leaving earlier and cycling a bit slower on my commute recently. Also using the canal cycle path which makes for a more pleasant outing too. the more I've cycled this year and the faster I've gotten actually going fast hasn't seemed anywhere near as important.

Jawgap

Saw a guy not so long ago hop out of his van in Drumcondra and run to the bus which had stopped in front of him and try and kick his way in through the closed doors.....have absolutely no idea what started it.

As for 'blue-on-blue' cyclist shenanigans, I've been bumped twice over the last few years by cyclists at red lights with one going so far as to shout (from all of 2m way) "You don't have to stop, you know!!!" My response on both occasions was to pull forward and over to let them through.......then catch them once the lights turned green and overtake in the most casual way possible!!

magicbastarder

i can only ever remember being shouted at by another cyclist once before, and that was by the guy who'd run a red light at a t-junction and been knocked off his bike (he was completely, undeniably in the wrong) who took umbrage at me for not being willing to defend his actions. obviously he assumed that because i was on a bike too, i'd support him - i'd already stopped at the red light and he flew past me, so this was not a case of running a risky amber.

Macy0161

Deedsie wrote: »

Irish people do the same when driving. Every journey is rushed and has to be completed as fast as possible regardless of safety or enjoyment.

Never compromised my safety (or enjoyment), but often my cycle commute is a way of fitting in extra training, so I do try and make it meaningful (I pick a longer, hillier route, a couple of sprints away from lights to get the heart rate up etc). No idea whether it was really effective, but it feels like I'm doing something extra!

People cycle, and cycle commute for different reasons. But I can't say I've ever seen any cyclist to cyclist issues either to be honest. A few comments to red light breakers, but that's about it (if they ignore lights, they'll ignore comments from anyone else too).

tomasrojo

In many years, I can only think of two run-ins I've had with another cyclist, and they were pretty minor; there may have been others I don't remember off-hand.

One was a guy blowing an AirZound at me and shouting (can't remember why exaclty). The other I remember was with a guy in his late teens or thereabouts who was draughting me and who I told to either drop back or overtake me. He got very shirty and suggested I go crying to my mother. I pointed out that only one of us was wearing the maternally mandated magic hat. To my surprise, he was quite crestfallen after that.

Macy0161

Deedsie wrote: »

Is that a reference to wearing a helmet when cycling? It's people's individual choice to wear a helmet or not. If you actually said that he probably thought you were a nutcase rather than feeling crestfallen himself. Why not just slow down and let him pass if he was draughting you. You initiated that confrontation as far as I can see.

Whatever about the follow up comment, calling out some randomer being too close to comfort behind isn't initiating confrontation - it is the cyclist from behind who is in the wrong.

If he slowed down is he supposed to trust the guy behind is paying enough attention and not just focused on the wheel? imo safest course of action was to say "come through or drop back" if he felt it wasn't safe.

Most times they'd take umbrage at the perceived wheelsucker accusation and sprint away, rather than carry on sitting in and give out.

CramCycle

I would have told tomasrojo "don't hate the player brother, hate the game" then snapped my fingers while pulling a wheelie and then tear past.

No wonder the guy looked sheepish, road craft 101 there

tomasrojo

Deedsie wrote: »

Is that a reference to wearing a helmet when cycling? It's people's individual choice to wear a helmet or not.

Yes, it is, I quite agree. I wasn't criticising him or making fun of him for that. He was making out that I was being some sort of uptight, hysterical road-safety square. Hence the comment. It was childish, but I'm reasonably sure everyone has retorted with something less than Wildean in response to someone else being a boor.

Deedsie wrote: »

If you actually said that he probably thought you were a nutcase rather than feeling crestfallen himself. Why not just slow down and let him pass if he was draughting you.

I half-turned to do a shoulder-check, and I could have reached behind and touched his grinning face. I got a surprise, and just blurted out that he should overtake or pull back and not be right behind me. And I mean right behind me.

Deedsie wrote: »

You initiated that confrontation as far as I can see.

Well, no, I didn't. If it were some sort of race he would have been entitled to wheel suck, as someone else pointed out.

Pinch Flat

Deedsie wrote: »

Irish people do the same when driving. Every journey is rushed and has to be completed as fast as possible regardless of safety or enjoyment.

We all need to chill out a bit more.

It's the constant rush I can't get, that constant need to get to the next junction as fast as possible.

Only on Sunday morning last I was heading out to Newgrange, car in front of me, and a car in front of him again doing the speed limit (60 kph). Residential area. Everyone's happy. Or so I thought. We're approaching this junction, we have a green light.

http://tinyurl.com/hsme4ou

Out of the blue, the car in front of me did a crazy overtaking maneuver - the 'aggressive swan neck' so beloved of Irish drivers, into the path of oncoming traffic, which had to brake hard to avoid hitting the car on the wrong side of the road, he then tucked back in again. We came across him about 10 seconds later, stuck at the roundabout. He then undertook in the bus lane, came in front again and headed straight through the next lights. Ir was so random, so unpredictable.

From what I could see, no one was dying or giving birth in the car, just pure impatience and faux rush. All this at around 10am on a Sunday morning.

stecleary

I have only ever had a issue with an other cyclist the once.
This plank drafts me up the Malahide road every day from Casino to the top of the golfclub, As he passes he always says thanks and laughs as he goes through a red light.
One day he was drafting and didn't see a branch on the road, I bunnyhopped it, he hit it, and fell.
a few sets of lights on he caught up and called me a few nice names, the more he went on about how i should have called it the more i laughed. He knew he wasn't getting anywhere so resorted to telling me my club was **** and full of fat people that think they are gods.

I was actually very upset by it, I thought we got rid of the fat people when Lusk_Doyle joined VCB

Oh and this aint a young guy that has no idea what he is doing, Id say 50ish and knows full well what drafting is. or maybe he doesn't because im crap on that section

07Lapierre

Years ago I was cycling down the Malahide road (in the bus lane) on my way to Bolton St. It was 8am and traffic was heavy. A blue van muscled it's way past me in the bus lane. I protested by giving the side of the van a hard thump with my fist! At the next set of traffic lights, the sliding door of the van opened and two big guys jumped out and tried to grab me off my bike! I hopped onto the path and kept going ( straight through the red traffic lights!). I kept going and never looked back! So now I NEVER touch a vehicle that passes too close... You never know how people will react!

tomasrojo

07Lapierre wrote: »

You never know how people will react!

That's a good maxim. That was scary.

tomasrojo

Deedsie wrote: »

Getting in a slagging match with a teenager/young person about wearing a helmet is confrontational regardless of cycling etiquette.

It wasn't a slagging match. It was a put-down in response to a more childish provocation. We're not all Gandhi, you know.

magicbastarder

i'd be curious if said yoof was just a commuting cyclist, or a more 'serious' (word used advisedly) out for a spin.
if the former, the notion of 'draughting' was probably not one they were even conscious of.

tomasrojo

He was pretty casually dressed, but I don't know what could be read into that.

In fact, this exchange that happened a few years ago and that lasted maybe ten seconds, tops, probably doesn't warrant any more scrutiny. Apologies for bringing up the H-word, however indirectly, and apologies if it sounded as if I was making fun of that, per se. I wasn't.

tomasrojo

I still think that draughting unsuspecting commuters is the height of arsish behaviour though.

DirkVoodoo

tomasrojo wrote: »

I still think that draughting unsuspecting commuters is the height of arsish behaviour though.

Totally. I always give a bit of leeway.

Riding through Sandyford last week, went around some guy in civvies riding an old steel bike, I wasn't setting any landspeed records but he was going pretty slow.

Next thing he's jumped onto my wheel, and even when I ramp up the pace a little he's still there.

It's not that I would begrudge someone taking a bit of shelter, but I don't know who you are or how competent you are. If I brake, I don't know if you're going to plow into the back of me or stop in time.

daragh_

I was punched by another cyclist once on my commute - maybe 4 years ago. I overtook him and then slowed down to stop at a red light. He went ballistic because he couldn't stop as his brakes were broken. He rode through the red, and the next 3 sets of lights.

I rode past him a few minutes later and called him an idiot (in more robust language). Next set of lights as I was waiting for green he rode up to me and whacked me in the face.

I can't remember what I said but it ended up with him calming down, apologising and we shook hands. I think I may have suggested a few places on the route where he could get his brakes sorted.

I should really get a medal for promoting peace and understanding.

mrcheez

tomasrojo wrote: »

I still think that draughting unsuspecting commuters is the height of arsish behaviour though.

That's when you go through as many puddles as you can (weather permitting!)

Jawgap

Deedsie wrote: »

Is that a reference to wearing a helmet when cycling? It's people's individual choice to wear a helmet or not. If you actually said that he probably thought you were a nutcase rather than feeling crestfallen himself. Why not just slow down and let him pass if he was draughting you. You initiated that confrontation as far as I can see.

Wheel sucking is only acceptable if you have been overtaken by someone who subsequently does not respond or acknowledge your 'hello' or 'good morning' - on any other occasion it's just bad manners and the suckee is entitled to respond using what verbal utterances (excluding bad language) he has at his command or bodily emanations (but only when it would be funny to do so)

.....on any other occasion, the sucker should take their turn or back off

shootermacg

The people who push to the front at every light, even though you've passed them ages ago. What is going though their heads? The same people do it every time, old young, man, woman. I often wonder why they do this, what makes them ignore the logic of the situation? Is it a form of public trolling?

07Lapierre

shootermacg wrote: »

The people who push to the front at every light, even though you've passed them ages ago. What is going though their heads? The same people do it every time, old young, man, woman. I often wonder why they do this, what makes them ignore the logic of the situation? Is it a form of public trolling?

They do it because they can and because they are not concerned about anyone but themselves.

The only reason Motorists don't do it is because its physically impossible to do it (Most of the time).

Here's an example where it is possible single lane that is wide enough for two lanes. for years it was marked as a single lane, but because it was used as a two lane road, they just gave in and painted two arrows on the road..

stecleary

07Lapierre wrote: »

Here's an example where it is possible single lane that is wide enough for two lanes. for years it was marked as a single lane, but because it was used as a two lane road, they just gave in and painted two arrows on the road..

And they've now done he same 500 yards up the road at the funeral home, even fitted a filter light for right tuns

shootermacg

07Lapierre wrote: »

They do it because they can and because they are not concerned about anyone but themselves.

I wonder if they are even aware, they are doing it. I just do not understand this behavior, these people aren't big bully types, throwing their weight around or posturing, they simply go to the front with a vacant expression.

shootermacg

07Lapierre wrote: »

They do it because they can and because they are not concerned about anyone but themselves.

The only reason Motorists don't do it is because its physically impossible to do it (Most of the time).

Here's an example where it is possible single lane that is wide enough for two lanes. for years it was marked as a single lane, but because it was used as a two lane road, they just gave in and painted two arrows on the road..

here's another example:

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3026746,-6.2325739,3a,75y,274.34h,86.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUYPAMNHhTBYJ8sf2E2dLvg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Except, there isn't really room for 2 cars, so they mount the path and drive on, and this is near a school!

07Lapierre

shootermacg wrote: »

I wonder if they are even aware, they are doing it. I just do not understand this behavior, these people aren't big bully types, throwing their weight around or posturing, they simply go to the front with a vacant expression.

Damn right there aware of it! They just don't care and they know that most Irish people are too polite to say anything anyway.

Another example is when your at the airport and your flight is called...notice how irish people hate queuing/waiting? even when they call "Passengers with kids first", everyone moves forward anyway. We irish hate queuing/waiting for our turn.

rollingscone

07Lapierre wrote: »

They do it because they can and because they are not concerned about anyone but themselves.

The only reason Motorists don't do it is because its physically impossible to do it (Most of the time).

Here's an example where it is possible single lane that is wide enough for two lanes. for years it was marked as a single lane, but because it was used as a two lane road, they just gave in and painted two arrows on the road..

I'm often out at 0500-0530 on weekdays, red lights and stop signs are apparently invisible at this time.

As you said, the only thing that makes drivers behave "better" than cyclists are the physical constraints of traffic and the fear of being hit by other cars.

magicbastarder

shootermacg wrote: »

The people who push to the front at every light, even though you've passed them ages ago. What is going though their heads? The same people do it every time, old young, man, woman. I often wonder why they do this, what makes them ignore the logic of the situation? Is it a form of public trolling?

Try explaining your objections to a non-cyclist. They'll usually look at you with an 'are you alright in the head' sort of look and file it away as further evidence that cyclists are a breed apart. Some people simply don't think about the etiquette of cycling as much as the average poster on these boards. They're not doing it deliberately or because of lax morals.

Hungrycol

If you cannot burn off a wheel sucking commuter you are weak and should bow your head in shame.