Renting with your own furniture

Elliott S

Partially furnished (kitchen appliances etc)

bubblypop wrote: »

You are so wrong! I have been looking for an unfurnished property for months, they are all extremely MORE expensive then furnished houses. I presume because they are looking for a long term renter.

I don't know too many people that would be happy with a landlord inspection every 3 months! Once a year is enough for most adults.

Yeah, three month's is way too intrusive! Maybe for the first six months, it'd be OK, but once it's established that they keep the place well, yearly is enough.

Elliott S

Partially furnished (kitchen appliances etc)

Elliott S wrote: »

Yeah, three month's is way too intrusive! Maybe for the first six months, it'd be OK, but once it's established that they keep the place well, yearly is enough.

Yeah and how many threads do you see about how tenants leave the place in a mess, don't spot leaks etc. As the property owner I would be perfectly within my rights to inspect evey 3 months. I'd also take responsibility for looking after the garden etc as a reason to call around. If a person renting one of the rooms doesn't like it off with them, there will be no problem getting a replacement. You will have a new person in on average of about once a year or even a bit more also so it's not like the same people are there so you would need to see how they are treating the place. Again the place would be fully furnished so I would want to ensure the place being maintained, they haven't decided to get any pets (indoor or outdoor), there are no issues that they haven't bothered to report such a small leak etc.

I would possibly also consider retaining access to common areas but I'm not going to discuss that here as it will be shot down by people very confident im wrong in what I say, which of course I will disagree with and the thread goes way off topic.

At the end of the day the thread is about furnished or unfurnished and the fact is the vast majority of people in the real world want a furnished rental.

Valentina Rich Cargo

Don't mind

Valentina Rich Cargo wrote: »

At the end of the day the thread is about furnished or unfurnished and the fact is the vast majority of people in the real world want a furnished rental.

I think the vast majority of young, 20 something year olds, or students want furnished. Due to their transient nature.

I think the vast majority of older, mature & settled people want unfurnished as it is more likely they will actually be renting a home as opposed to just a rental property.

bubblypop

Partially furnished (kitchen appliances etc)

bubblypop wrote: »

I think the vast majority of young, 20 something year olds, or students want furnished. Due to their transient nature.

I think the vast majority of older, mature & settled people want unfurnished as it is more likely they will actually be renting a home as opposed to just a rental property.

The first group make up the majority of people renting though as the second group have, for the most part, bought their own place.

Elliott S

Partially furnished (kitchen appliances etc)

Valentina Rich Cargo wrote: »

Yeah and how many threads do you see about how tenants leave the place in a mess, don't spot leaks etc. As the property owner I would be perfectly within my rights to inspect evey 3 months.

Of course you would be. But it's not good for landlord-tenant relations. I don't know anyone who would be happy with such frequent visits in what is their home.

Valentina Rich Cargo

Don't mind

Valentina Rich Cargo wrote: »

The first group make up the majority of people renting though as the second group have, for the most part, bought their own place.

Well going forward I'd imagine there will be a lot of them that won't be able to afford their own houses.
Not everyone wants to own a house you know?

Sad Professor

Don't mind

Valentina Rich Cargo wrote: »

The first group make up the majority of people renting though as the second group have, for the most part, bought their own place.

That's changing. Look at the 2011 census: 20% of 35-44 year olds were renting and 10 percent of 45-54 year olds. In the early '90s those figures were 5 and 3 percent respectively (Source). That's a massive increase in the age of tenants. The 2016 census results should show a further increase.

People are renting for longer. The average age of the first-time buyer is now 34, up from 29 only 10 years ago. They may want to buy, but not all of them will be able to, and even the ones that eventually do will end up spending far longer in rental accommodation. They aren't going to put off having a family forever. Long-term tenancies is already a reality for many Irish people, but the market is still catering for short-term tenants.

Elliott S

Partially furnished (kitchen appliances etc)

Elliott S wrote: »

Of course you would be. But it's not good for landlord-tenant relations. I don't know anyone who would be happy with such frequent visits in what is their home.

How is a 10 or 15 minute visit every few months such an inconvienence. If they are finding it inconvenient it means they are having to put in effort to make the place presentable and if that's the case then they need regular inspections.

I know we only really do anything in the house if there is an off chance the LL calls (hovering, washing the kitchen floor etc), that has been about once a year or less in my time in this particular house.

matrim

Valentina Rich Cargo wrote: »

How is a 10 or 15 minute visit every few months such an inconvienence. If they are finding it inconvenient it means they are having to put in effort to make the place presentable and if that's the case then they need regular inspections.

I know we only really do anything in the house if there is an off chance the LL calls (hovering, washing the kitchen floor etc), that has been about once a year or less in my time in this particular house.

I know I wouldn't put up with it and if a landlord suggested it I wouldn't take the place and if I was already living there I'd just say no. It's annoying, time consuming and an invasion of privacy.

Elliott S

Partially furnished (kitchen appliances etc)

Valentina Rich Cargo wrote: »

I know we only really do anything in the house if there is an off chance the LL calls (hovering, washing the kitchen floor etc), that has been about once a year or less in my time in this particular house.

Maybe others wouldn't be so lazy and don't need to be micromanaged in keeping their home clean.

matrim wrote: »

I know I wouldn't put up with it and if a landlord suggested it I wouldn't take the place and if I was already living there I'd just say no.

Exactly! This would scare away good tenants who don't wish to be nannied.

matrim

Elliott S wrote: »

Exactly! This would scare away good tenants who don't wish to be nannied.

Yup. It would risk become a self-fulfilling prophecy. He thinks all tenants are out to get him so imposes 3 month checks. People who will keep the place well will see this an imposition and not take it so he's left with the kind of people who will wreck the place and require 3 month checks.

matrim

Partially furnished (kitchen appliances etc)

matrim wrote: »

I know I wouldn't put up with it and if a landlord suggested it I wouldn't take the place and if I was already living there I'd just say no. It's annoying, time consuming and an invasion of privacy.

You might not have a choice in the current climate and also that's the beauty of renting the rooms seperately, only needs the concent of one of the tenants for the LL to enter (if even, as again retaining full access to common areas is still a posibility of a LL in this scenario). So you may so no but your housemate may have already agreed to it before you moved in and not much you can do. That being said I would make it very clear when offering the room for rent that inspections would be regular.

I know one houseshare of a work colleague that the LL comes to the house twice a week to clean the common areas and do any handy work that's needed. Always lets himself in and never announces the visits. He has set a precedent now for having access to common areas.

Elliott S

Partially furnished (kitchen appliances etc)

Valentina Rich Cargo wrote: »

I know one houseshare of a work colleague that the LL comes to the house twice a week to clean the common areas and do any handy work that's needed. Always lets himself in and never announces the visits. He has set a precedent now for having access to common areas.

That would very much be an exception. Sounds awful. Precedent? This isn't case law we're talking about here. This is one situation you know of that the housemates don't seem to have a problem with it. Most people wouldn't accept that. I've lived in a lot of different houseshares and in none of them would the housemates been happy with the above. Tenants are well able to do their own cleaning and work together to tidy the common areas.

athtrasna

Think we're now at the stage where you guys should take it to pm. The two and fro can be off putting for other posters. Thanks.

Mod

Sad Professor

Don't mind

A landlord posting on the Daft boards a few years ago about the expense of renting furnished:

Having been over 35 years in this business, I have recently completed an exhaustive survey of expenses/losses/disputes relating to over 1000 tenancies. Biggest losses/expenses are electrical equipment, 2nd biggest expense are beds/mattresses, 3rd its carpets and sofas, 4th tables and chairs, 5th is just plain filth and dirt […] Deposits rarely cover the amount and quite often iffy tenants never pay the last months rent […] Personally, I would and could let out accomodation at a 15/20% discount if tenants provided their own white goods and soft furnishings, it would be far less acrimonious for all concerned.

At the moment I am not just letting out accomodation but also am letting out (with a full parts and labour gaurantee) a fridge/freezer, an oven, a hob, an extractor fan, a washing machine, a dishwasher, a dryer, a microwave, a hoover, toaster, kettle, iron, carpets, sofas, beds tables chairs etc. It is common practice on the continent for tenants to provide all these for themselves. It would be an interesting survey to find out what the repair bills would be like if they owned these things thenselves, I know my own appliances cost 400% Less to upkeep and maintain. Yes it really is that much, says a lot for the tanants treatment of things that don't belong to them.

Hard to argue with this really. Renting unfurnished is cheaper for a landlord. And as landlords here have echoed, and I think tenants would agree, people are more likely to look after their own stuff. It's human nature. Also the more tenants can make a rented property feel like home the longer they are likely to stay there. This also saves money and time for the landlord who doesn't have to find new tenants every few years and will have hopefully establish a trusting relationship with his tenants so that he doesn't have to do regular inspections. He'll probably also be happy to keep rents below market rates and/or take care of any problems the tenants do have in order to keep them. It's win/win.

John_Rambo

Don't mind

Sad Professor wrote: »

A landlord posting on the Daft boards a few years ago about the expense of renting furnished:



Hard to argue with this really. Renting unfurnished is cheaper for a landlord. And as landlords here have echoed, and I think tenants would agree, people are more likely to look after their own stuff. It's human nature. Also the more tenants can make a rented property feel like home the longer they are likely to stay there. This also saves money and time for the landlord who doesn't have to find new tenants every few years and will have hopefully establish a trusting relationship with his tenants so that he doesn't have to do regular inspections. He'll probably also be happy to keep rents below market rates and/or take care of any problems the tenants do have in order to keep them. It's win/win.

You have just described exactly what I did. In most cases the tenants took care of small repairs/leaks/issues themselves. I never heard about them until it was casually mentioned to me when they were moving on. I covered the cost of course, but that wasn't why it was mentioned to me, they told me in case the problem arised again. I also discovered repairs and fixes that I was unaware of. I never carried out inspections, they paid me to have the property as their home, I didn't need to inspect their home! Careful screening, documentation and good character judgement is better than distrustful and intrusive inspections.

The trick (and I use the word "trick" loosely, as it wasn't trickery, but common sense) was unfurnished except for high quality, top brand cooker, shower pump, wood stove, dish-washer, fridge/freezer, washing machine, dryer, microwave and a coffee machine. The kitchen was a high end, built in job with durable stone counter tops. The floor was oak, upstairs a softer pine.

A client willing to furnish the house is a long term winner that's going to respect the property, look after it and maintain it to ensure a comfortable and functional home.

John_Rambo

Don't mind

Oh... and two of them had pets! One family had a cat, another couple had one or two dogs that went to work with one of them (gay couple). I never knew they had pets until they told me. Another advantage to unfurnished letting.

_Kaiser_

Unfurnished

I'd happily rent partly furnished (appliances included) IF I could secure a tenancy for more than 12 months at a time.

When you are probably looking at moving within 24 months in most instances there's no point in investing in a load of furniture that may not fit in the next place or where you have issues with the next landlord not being able to remove/store their own stuff.

Sad Professor

Don't mind

Yeah security of tenure is key. I'd like to see a separate unfurnished rental sector aimed at long-term tenants and long-term investors. Landlords who opt-in get tax incentives, don't have to provide any furniture, and can successfully evict non-paying tenants much faster (within 3 months), but in exchange waive their current right to terminate the tenancy if selling the property or if a family member needs it. The landlord could still sell if they wanted but would have to do so with the tenant in-situ. As long as they pay the rent every month the tenant would be guaranteed at least 10-12 years in the property, after which another cycle could begin similar to the current part 4 legislation. It would be purely opt-in so landlords who don't like the sound of it could continue to rent under the terms of the old tenancies act. The devil would be in the details but I think something like this could work to the benefit of both landlords and tenants.

fits

Unfurnished

We have a lot of furniture and appliances and are renting a furnished house. Its full of stuff! Cant wait until we get out to our own place.

Lia_lia

We've been living in our rented place for almost 4 years. Came furnished and luckily high quality stuff, the landlady is an interior designer. We have still bought a lot of stuff though. A few rugs, was given a coffee table, bbq, hoover, Christmas tree and decorations, various other furniture....

Think I would prefer an unfurnished place if we were to move. But depends on the quality of the furniture in the house I guess. Some places here in Cork city are awful! When I was a child we lived in about 8 different houses in 3 different countries with the same furniture. A lot of that furniture is still in my Mother's house now.

Silverbling

Don't mind

Sad Professor wrote: »

That's changing. Look at the 2011 census: 20% of 35-44 year olds were renting and 10 percent of 45-54 year olds. In the early '90s those figures were 5 and 3 percent respectively (Source). That's a massive increase in the age of tenants. The 2016 census results should show a further increase.

People are renting for longer. The average age of the first-time buyer is now 34, up from 29 only 10 years ago. They may want to buy, but not all of them will be able to, and even the ones that eventually do will end up spending far longer in rental accommodation. They aren't going to put off having a family forever. Long-term tenancies is already a reality for many Irish people, but the market is still catering for short-term tenants.

That is because of divorce, a single parent after a certain age can not get a mortgage so has no choice but to rent and we are looking for long term unfurnished

aido79

Valentina Rich Cargo wrote: »

You might not have a choice in the current climate and also that's the beauty of renting the rooms seperately, only needs the concent of one of the tenants for the LL to enter (if even, as again retaining full access to common areas is still a posibility of a LL in this scenario). So you may so no but your housemate may have already agreed to it before you moved in and not much you can do. That being said I would make it very clear when offering the room for rent that inspections would be regular.

I know one houseshare of a work colleague that the LL comes to the house twice a week to clean the common areas and do any handy work that's needed. Always lets himself in and never announces the visits. He has set a precedent now for having access to common areas.

This type of renting might appeal to certain people but I know plenty of people including myself who would not be interested in houseshares. I have been in all sorts of rentals from houseshares to furnished rentals to unfurnished rentals and unfurnished rentals was my preferred way after renting for almost 15 years.

I rented unfurnished in Australia for 4 or 5 years starting off with buying cheap stuff and gradually building it up to a nicely furnished house which I was happy with and it felt far like a home than any furnished rental or houseshare I had lived in previously.

When I eventually bought my own house it was a very easy move. In fact I was able to pack up all of my stuff in my rented house and make the house I'd bought ready to live in over the course of a weekend. It was the easiest move I had ever made.

You would probably consider yourself to be a good tenant but, and no offence meant, as a landlord you would almost definitely not be the type of tenant I would be looking for.
At 31 years of age you are still relying on your parents to supply you with a duvet. You will probably deny this but that to me among other things you have mentioned makes you sound like the kind of tenant who would be on the phone every time a light bulb blew or other small issue.

When I first looked for a tenant for my newly built house one was recommended to me and we came to the arrangement where the tenant would bring whatever furniture they already owned into the house and I would supply the rest. This worked out well for us both at the time as the tenant was looking for a long-term rental and I wanted a long-term tenant. However if I was to do it again I would probably rent it unfurnished.
As a non resident landlord I don't want the hassle of having to do regular inspections like you mention so I asked my agent to do 2 inspections in the first 6 months to gauge how well my tenant looked after the house. They probably kept it better than I would myself so I was happy to leave them in peace after that.
In Australia it is more standard procedure for estate agents to do 3 monthly inspections and it is something I hated as a tenant so I would not wish to do it to my tenant.

With the new mortgage rules in place I wish you all the best with saving enough money for the required deposit plus the initial outlay for your high quality furnishings. There are alot of people in the market for houses who will be struggling to just get the deposit together but you seem to have it all planned out so I hope it works out for you.

aido79

Partially furnished (kitchen appliances etc)

aido79 wrote: »

This type of renting might appeal to certain people but I know plenty of people including myself who would not be interested in houseshares. I have been in all sorts of rentals from houseshares to furnished rentals to unfurnished rentals and unfurnished rentals was my preferred way after renting for almost 15 years.

I fully agree there are different type of people for different types of houses, furnished, unfurnished, houseshares etc. I also hate a housesharing myself but it's a necessary evil if you are unwilling to pay the prices to rent alone and there will always be a large pool of tenants looking for a furnished houseshare.

aido79 wrote: »

You would probably consider yourself to be a good tenant but, and no offence meant, as a landlord you would almost definitely not be the type of tenant I would be looking for.
At 31 years of age you are still relying on your parents to supply you with a duvet. You will probably deny this but that to me among other things you have mentioned makes you sound like the kind of tenant who would be on the phone every time a light bulb blew or other small issue.

I would consider myself a very good tenant and my LLs have told me this on a number of occasions. I have probably contacted a LL for something to be done in the house once or at most twice a year and it was always things like a leak, a reminder the garden needed weeding (on request of the LL you wants that responsibility) etc.

aido79 wrote: »

With the new mortgage rules in place I wish you all the best with saving enough money for the required deposit plus the initial outlay for your high quality furnishings. There are alot of people in the market for houses who will be struggling to just get the deposit together but you seem to have it all planned out so I hope it works out for you.

Thanks for your best wishes, in fact I already have mortgage approval and am currently looking for a suitable property.

sk8board

Unfurnished

Hi,
I'm also coming from the Landlord side of this conversation, as a landlord for over 10 years - I have multiple family homes and have only rented them unfurnished, with kitchen appliances included. Most tenants are family's who can't buy or won't buy, but have accumulated their own stuff over the years.
There is no doubt in my mind that you get a more stable, reliable and long-term tenant, who is also much more likely to look after the house better, as it's full of their own possessions.

My only complaint, if it could considered one, is that I need to spell out to all prospective tenants that it's unfurnished when they call or reply to the ad, simply because they haven't read the ad and that usually thin's out about 75% of people.
It might take a week longer to rent, but I'll never do it any other way.