Direct Drive Turbos

BUACHAILL

Hoping you guys can help.

I am in the market for a direct drive Turbo and wondered what people are using and their thoughts on them V standard turbos. I know some of them don't come with Power or speed being monitored with them but is this something worth paying the extra for ?

Would be particularly interested in what people have to say about the Kickr if anyone has experience with them.

Please and thanks

iwillhtfu

I read somewhere that the kickr is very popular but a bit of a toy albeit very expensive and that the tacx neo would be the one to go for given the option.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0112VE4NO/ref=asc_df_B0112VE4NO35806127?smid=A2YE3CF8IZNRWV&tag=keuklt-mp-21&linkCode=df0&creative=22222&creativeASIN=B0112VE4NO&ascsubtag=dc1-kls-prod-srv-03.prod.dc1.kelkoo.net_1471385836565_1202703

thekooman

also Elite do a more reasonably priced turbo:
http://www.bike-discount.de/en/search?q=elite+turbo

Lumen

I might get one of these this winter.

The ergo mode on the Kickr is a very attractive feature. Turn off brain and pedal.

That said, it seems like you have to take into account both features of the trainer and of the software, since apparently apps like Trainerroad include a software ergo mode.

DC Rainmaker the place to go for reviews.

BUACHAILL

Just reading up about the Tacx. Seemingly it does not fit every bike the way its designed. This cold be a nuisance down the road if you decided to change bike.

I am not one for all the gadgets on a turbo but I do think spending the money on one of these future proofing it will be important

Macy0161

Just got the old model Muin from Halfords - worked out at €324 with Axa discount. German site linked above is the best price I could find the new model (wiggle not far off, but keeps pushing out it's in stock date). Only difference I could find is that the newer models have a housing for the elite sensor, and I think the elite sensor does cadence, speed and power (rather than just speed and power on the older models).

Have only used it once for a recovery ride - no issues using it, much more realistic than my old mag turbo. It's very quiet - the wifes comment when I came down after the session was "I thought you were doing a turbo session?".

Trying to do a hack on the speed sensor to avoid spending the money on the official one. A cheapo speed only Ant+ sensor didn't work (has a massive magnet, so wasn't that surprised it didn't pick up the one on the turbo). Going to try the speed and cadence sensor off the commuter before pulling the trigger on the Misuro.

Haven't used it with any of the online systems yet, because of the lack of speed sensor. My laptop doesn't meet the processor minimum specs for TrainerRoad, but has loads more ram, so if anyone's used it with an underspecced machine I'd be interested to hear? If that doesn't work, I'll probably go zwift until trainerroad htfu with their android app.

Lumen

After further reading on Neo vs Kickr, including from the famously pernickety Wattage forum it seems that:

In favour of Neo
- Neo is much quieter
- Neo has historically more accurate power measurement because the Kickr suffers/suffered from drift which may or may not have been completely rectified in firmware upgrades (reminds me of early Power2Max issues).
- Neo simulates downhills (pointless?)
- Neo simulates cobbles (pointless?)
- Neo has Isokinetic and Isostatic Modes (not sure they're widely supported yet)

In favour of Kickr
- More mature product
- Tacx support is famously crap
- Kickr had better app compatibility w.r.t Bluetooth Smart (but I think now resolved for the Neo)

Can't find a recent comparison of the erg(o) modes.

Current bike24 prices are 1150 for the Neo (no cassette) and 1000 for the Kickr (incl. 11-speed cassette).

Interestingly the Kickr supports 24" wheels but the Neo doesn't, so in the unlikely event that my kids want to use a turbo the Kickr might win.

edit: note that Eurobike kicks off on August 31 and usually coincides with release of new trainers.

edit: comparison of Kickr, Neo, Elite Drivo:

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/product-comparison-calculator?type=trainer&ids=60930%2C51883%2C4312#results

BUACHAILL

After hours of jumping from one to the other I decided to go with the Neo.

My original feeling was with the Kickr but there was a few key points really made my mind up.

Firstly the noise. Having looked at several youtubes videos there really does seem to be a big difference between them and if your spending hours on them it is something that would really put me off.

Both seem to be very accurate on the power readings but Neo seems to get the thumbs up for lower rpm torque.

Another big draw for me was its ability to emulate road surfaces through the unit to give you a real feel for the course you may be running through the pc. Anything that helps take the boredom off a session in my shed gets my thumbs up.

Neo can also be used without power should you bring it on your travels. I know they are questionable on software but this isn't an issue if you are using something like Zwift.

Purchased it through bike.24 and through my company so got it under the €1k so no complaints.

Will let you know my thoughts once it arrives and I get to try it out.

joey100

There is a newer version of the Kickr coming out, Froome was using it at the tour de france, no real details of it yet but definitely a new version.

Tacx are also working on a Neo 'Lite', will be closer in price to the Kickr. Looking at around 700 pounds.

No real idea of the differences with these models but think both as scheduled for eurobike or interbike so might get better prices over next month or so.

mul37

I've just bought the Elite Real Turbo Muin from 4thebike.de for €899, best price I could I find. They also sell the Tacx Neo €1099.

mul37

I've just bought the Elite Real Turbo Muin B+ from 4thebike.de for €899, best price I could I find. They also sell the Tacx Neo €1099.

Taxuser1

i wonder what amount and how much training justifies the expenditure of one smart trainer to another ?
if given the choice, I'd try and get outside even if miserable.

Lumen

Taxuser1 wrote: »

i wonder what amount and how much training justifies the expenditure of one smart trainer to another ?
if given the choice, I'd try and get outside even if miserable.

Another way of looking at it is that doing intervals on a "turbo" (do we even call them that now?) with consistent, accurate, integrated powermetering means the road can be used for "analogue" fun cycling rather than joyless grunting stem-gazing.

Is anyone here using VeloReality? I downloaded a 4k VeloReality sample video today and it was very impressive. Probably needs a 75 inch TV though. :pac:

dahat

I'm starting a new job, 9-5 instead of a two shift rotation and giving serious consideration to a smart trainer or the Jet Whisper one as with a family my free time will be restricted with these new hours.

As another poster said it would be much better to get out on the bike but it ain't always possible in Winter.

FrankGrimes

I used to despise the turbo. Then I got a Kickr. Now I love the turbo as I find it a more effective use of my time than outdoors for all but long rides. When you're as time-crunched as I am, that's a pretty key factor.

I used to never be comfortable with the feel of other turbos, but direct drive is a different ballgame, I find the feel much better and don't dread getting on it. Each to his own, but for me the smart aspect is huge - there's no way to cheat the workout, I specify the workout and then don't have to think, it forces you to hit the specified wattage whatever your cadence.

One thing I noticed was as a grinder, a couple of months on the Kickr improved my cadence.

Vendor's software mattered a few years back, now it should not really be a consideration: most people will either go with Trainer Road (fantastic), possibly with Sufferfest (unparalled motivation for hard days for me), or Zwift. I dabbled in Zwift and will be giving it another shot soon, but as a fan of structured interval training, I just found Trainer Road does it so well I stuck with that.

I have the benefit of using it in a room where I have a desktop with 2 monitors - one will have TrainerRoad/Sufferfest or Zwift, the other will often have some other video playing, good for motivation, though on tough interval sessions, I just focus on the Sufferfest video (try the Nine Hammers - if you don't nearly puke, your FTP is too low!).

If you have your own power meter on your turbo bike, Trainer Road has a power match feature so the accuracy of your turbo becomes irrelevant as the power meter readings override it. Not sure about Zwift? But the few times I've used it without a power meter, it felt pretty close to what I'd expect for given effort levels.

The Kickr is certainly not quiet, but not close to the noise of other turbos I've used. When I bought it a year ago, Tacx Neo was plagued with post-release issues and Tacx's famous terrible customer support, and the Tacx was a lot more expensive. From what I hear on the web now, Tacx Neo is reliable so if there was not a big difference in price, I'd opt for the Neo on the grounds it is quieter (but don't expect silent), and being able to warm-up at races/TTs with the standalone-power-not-needed feature of the Neo, would clinch it. That said, I have been absolutely delighted with the Kickr purchase and would strongly recommended to anyone where a bit of noise is not a concern. For me, if you can afford the extra expenditure, the benefits of a smart direct drive trainer which automatically adjusts resistance to ensure you hit the specified wattage, are considerable.