Convicted rapist in the pub

intheclouds

Charizard wrote: »

Christ read what your saying. I already said I defend anyone getting attacked for doing nothing harm. Nothing described rings alarm bells

Well for someone who sympathises so emphatically with a convicted rapist I suppose it doesn't.

Charizard

intheclouds wrote: »

I don't imagine he'd be drinking alcohol in Penny's though. Alcohol fuelled the original crime. In a city centre pub.

You really dont understand how the world works

intheclouds

Charizard wrote: »

You really dont understand how the world works

Instead of condescending to me, why don't you support your argument?

You are throwing out sound bites, ignoring context, and not making any kind of coherent discussion.

I'd be interested to hear why you so heartily support rapists?

runawaybishop

Charizard wrote: »

Of course its there business :rolleyes: it really isnt unless off course your batman

Thats not a rebuttal. :rolleyes:

Anywho, nothing wrong with letting people know and everything right imo. If he had any cop on he wouldn't be out chatting up young ones in pubs.

Charizard

intheclouds wrote: »

Instead of condescending to me, why don't you support your argument?

You are throwing out sound bites, ignoring context, and not making any kind of coherent discussion.

I'd be interested to hear why you so heartily support rapists?

intheclouds wrote: »

Well for someone who sympathises so emphatically with a convicted rapist I suppose it doesn't.

I support human rights, Im leaving this thread so wont be replying, I dont enjoy getting attacked personally when I dont agree with someones incorrect opinion

sullivlo

intheclouds wrote: »

Instead of condescending to me, why don't you support your argument?

You are throwing out sound bites, ignoring context, and not making any kind of coherent discussion.

I'd be interested to hear why you so heartily support rapists?

Mod
That's twice in the thread you've accused a poster of supporting rapists. Either back up your claims with examples of where the poster supports rapists, or lay off the personal attacks.

This warning extends to all - respect others views regardless of whether you agree with them or not. Don't attack the poster.

eviltwin

Charizard wrote: »

These are wildly different scenarios, your outraged about a man out drinking in a bar perhaps talking to women

I'm not outraged as you put it. I think he's perfectly entitled to go out and socialise and talk to whoever he wants. His companion is equally entitled to know his criminal past.

eviltwin

Charizard wrote: »

I support human rights, Im leaving this thread so wont be replying, I dont enjoy getting attacked personally when I dont agree with someones incorrect opinion

You have more empathy for the rapist than for the unsuspecting member of the public. Odd priorities.

goose2005

baby and crumble wrote: »

This might sounds bad but what is the guy meant to do, never drink again? Never go out and socialise after serving his time? I can imagine how horrific it would be to bum into someone who raped you, I'm not minimising that but people can change. I don't think it's fair to basically issue a ban on someone who committed a violent crime doing anything other than sit at home once they've served their time. Would you ban a shoplifter from ever going to a shop? I know that's a very flippant example but you get my meaning.

People usually go abroad, a kind of selfimposed exile. A guy i went to school with murdered his sister and went to live in canada after his release, it's odd that people stay

goose2005

intheclouds wrote: »

There is no way of knowing that he has been rehabilitated or not. Can you rehabilitate someone who is a rapist? Like - if thats how he gets his jollies, I dont think you can change that in a person?

sex offenders don't really 'get better', most keep offending for decades if not caught, and even if they are caught most reoffend.

Also - would a recently released rapist not have a parole officer etc? Surely theyd be advising against engaging in the same behaviour that led to the previous crime?

Only if he was released on probation. If he did his full sentence he's free to go and that's that.

Chaos Black

@ Candie & Meeeh, I did specifically say in fairness, it would not be your responsibility if someone else or a group took it upon themselves to commit a crime, by taking violent action. I however, do think it is a reasonably plausible outcome of making it public knowledge in a bar, that someone is a convicted rapist, & thus something you should be aware of ahead of making a decision. Their is a social perception, that rapists, are perhaps even worse than murderers & deserving of different treatment then other criminals, bar paedophiles. That is not your responsibility either of course, but in the world we live in, outing a violent rapist, in a city centre bar, on a weekend with alcohol flowing, likely puts their well being at risk and others (including yourself & others who may just get caught up).

I know my logic is a bit cold, but rationally, if I did not know the people involved, i'd consider the risks & benefits to having a "quiet word". I think you should be comfortable with them and the likely outcomes of whichever action you take, it would be naive imo to think it won't escalate. I disagree with the assertion, that it is macho culture, when it comes to rape, it is a very emotive topic, and even usually reasonable people can find themselves taking action they wouldn't normally participate in. I know Gardai, who got desk duty for rough treatment of domestic abusers and so forth, they did not get fired, nor did it long term affect their careers (that I know of).

goose2005

goose2005 wrote: »

sex offenders don't really 'get better', most keep offending for decades if not caught, and even if they are caught most reoffend.

Do you have anything to back this up?
I'd bet the majority of sex offenders ( ie people convicted of a sexual offence in this country ) actually don't reoffend.

intheclouds

sullivlo wrote: »

Mod
That's twice in the thread you've accused a poster of supporting rapists. Either back up your claims with examples of where the poster supports rapists, or lay off the personal attacks.

This warning extends to all - respect others views regardless of whether you agree with them or not. Don't attack the poster.

My claims are backed up by the posters posts in this thread.

The poster has accused me of harassment and gossip (this despite the fact that I have stated from the outset that I said nothing at the time).

They have come to this thread and dropped sound bite after sound bite without giving any rational discussion or argument. I did wonder if they were just trolling but I have responded civilly throughout.

I don't see what is wrong with asking a poster who is posting in this manner why they support rapists, we are discussing a convicted rapist? Where is the personal attack? What about the manner in which the poster has addressed me?

Now I can only assume that the agenda was to push me (and other posters) into a position where they are reporting our posts and so get the discussion shut down?

intheclouds

bubblypop wrote: »

Do you have anything to back this up?
I'd bet the majority of sex offenders ( ie people convicted of a sexual offence in this country ) actually don't reoffend.

I posted the recidivism rates much earlier in the thread. They are very low, under 30%.

However, they are only conviction rates. Given that most rapes go unreported and most that are reported are not successfully convicted, the true figure could be a lot higher than that.

sullivlo

intheclouds wrote: »

My claims are backed up by the posters posts in this thread.

The poster has accused me of harassment and gossip (this despite the fact that I have stated from the outset that I said nothing at the time).

They have come to this thread and dropped sound bite after sound bite without giving any rational discussion or argument. I did wonder if they were just trolling but I have responded civilly throughout.

I don't see what is wrong with asking a poster who is posting in this manner why they support rapists, we are discussing a convicted rapist? Where is the personal attack? What about the manner in which the poster has addressed me?

Now I can only assume that the agenda was to push me (and other posters) into a position where they are reporting our posts and so get the discussion shut down?

Mod
No agenda whatsoever. As mods we work on the basis of reported posts. If you have an issue with a post, report it. The discussion is fine where it is, it just needs to be civil.

Any further queries please PM.

sullivlo

Mod hat off. Posting as a regular(ish) female with some personal experience in the topic at hand.

For what it is worth, I agree with the sentiment of baby and crumble. Are people who offend supposed to live like hermits for the rest of their lives?

I absolutely do not sympathise with rapists, or take their side in anything. But it is my opinion that if somebody is convicted of a crime and they do the time, that they should be given a chance at life again.

I'm not entirely sure what I would do in the scenario listed in the OP. If it was a friend, of course I would have a quiet word in her ear. If it was a stranger... I think that is a bit trickier. It is likely that I would try to mention it, but it's likely to be on a case by case basis.

The topic at hand is rape. It's a bloody horrible thing to be a victim of regardless of whether it was violent/non violent/reported... The entire process is horrific. We've all experienced some level of unwanted sexual advances. Rape is bound to bring up many, many emotions in people. Myself included. It's a tough one to discuss. I'm just trying to see how I would act personally.

meeeeh

Chaos Black wrote: »

@ Candie & Meeeh, I did specifically say in fairness, it would not be your responsibility if someone else or a group took it upon themselves to commit a crime, by taking violent action. I however, do think it is a reasonably plausible outcome of making it public knowledge in a bar, that someone is a convicted rapist, & thus something you should be aware of ahead of making a decision. Their is a social perception, that rapists, are perhaps even worse than murderers & deserving of different treatment then other criminals, bar paedophiles. That is not your responsibility either of course, but in the world we live in, outing a violent rapist, in a city centre bar, on a weekend with alcohol flowing, likely puts their well being at risk and others (including yourself & others who may just get caught up).

I know my logic is a bit cold, but rationally, if I did not know the people involved, i'd consider the risks & benefits to having a "quiet word". I think you should be comfortable with them and the likely outcomes of whichever action you take, it would be naive imo to think it won't escalate. I disagree with the assertion, that it is macho culture, when it comes to rape, it is a very emotive topic, and even usually reasonable people can find themselves taking action they wouldn't normally participate in. I know Gardai, who got desk duty for rough treatment of domestic abusers and so forth, they did not get fired, nor did it long term affect their careers (that I know of).

Yes you said it wouldn't be one's responsibility but then you implied it would escalate because of actions of the person talking about someone's past.

I don't care how emotive the subject is someone getting into a fight in pub is doing it for their own ego and nothing else. I can understand angry reactions on the site of the crime and similar but not complete strangers. Frankly your reasoning taken to the extreme would mean that victim of a crime should keep quiet so no further violence would erupt.

intheclouds

Something that I havent stated explicitly is also that I would be physically afraid of this person.

He is much bigger than me, and clearly capable of horrific violence.

Someone suggested I could have left the pub. Frankly I would have been afraid to leave the pub alone in case he saw me and followed me. That may be totally irrational, but thats how he committed his crime so it was on my mind.

eviltwin

sullivlo wrote: »

Mod hat off. Posting as a regular(ish) female with some personal experience in the topic at hand.

For what it is worth, I agree with the sentiment of baby and crumble. Are people who offend supposed to live like hermits for the rest of their lives?

I absolutely do not sympathise with rapists, or take their side in anything. But it is my opinion that if somebody is convicted of a crime and they do the time, that they should be given a chance at life again.

I'm not entirely sure what I would do in the scenario listed in the OP. If it was a friend, of course I would have a quiet word in her ear. If it was a stranger... I think that is a bit trickier. It is likely that I would try to mention it, but it's likely to be on a case by case basis.

The topic at hand is rape. It's a bloody horrible thing to be a victim of regardless of whether it was violent/non violent/reported... The entire process is horrific. We've all experienced some level of unwanted sexual advances. Rape is bound to bring up many, many emotions in people. Myself included. It's a tough one to discuss. I'm just trying to see how I would act personally.

Not one person anywhere on this thread has so much as suggested they should be exiled and forced to live away from normal society.

But when you find yourself in a situation like the OP did you have to ask yourself what is the right thing to do?

I'll give you an example: one of my brothers is a paedophile. He's never been convicted due to a garda screw up but he admitted to the family he was guilty. I haven't spoken to him since. About a year ago a friend on FB who knows my brother had a baby, he put up various pictures and in a few my brother is there holding the child, bathing the child, cuddling the child. It make my skin crawl. I spent a week talking to my husband about it, my boss ( I work in child abuse services so she is well experienced ), I thought about my own children and how I would feel to be an unsuspecting parent and in the end I told the friend what had happened. As you can guess, he now no longer has a relationship with my brother.

I can't say with any certainty if my brother was a risk to that child, probably not but I couldn't live with myself if anything happened and I couldn't live with myself knowing that the child's parents were totally unaware.

My actions were not about punishing someone or making life harder for him that it already is. If the parents had not cared nor would I. I'm sure my brother has access to many other kids but this is the one incident I saw and I am confident I made the right call.

No one knows what this guys intentions are or if he is a risk and maybe he's a reformed character and has learnt his lesson but he committed a horrific crime, he violently beat up and raped someone, his victim was in fear of her life. I don't think that he's any right to feel that he can't be called out on his behaviours now.

Chaos Black

meeeeh wrote: »

Yes you said it wouldn't be one's responsibility but then you implied it would escalate because of actions of the person talking about someone's past.

I don't care how emotive the subject is someone getting into a fight in pub is doing it for their own ego and nothing else. I can understand angry reactions on the site of the crime and similar but not complete strangers. Frankly your reasoning taken to the extreme would mean that victim of a crime should keep quiet so no further violence would erupt.

I said a plausible reaction to such information shared among strangers, in that particular social setting, is potentially dangerous. You don't have to understand people's reactions or their reasoning, just that what ought to happen, and what may transpire are two very different things. It might not even be the general public, someone could verbally confront the convicted rapist and get more then they bargained for.

I don't see the point in taking that reasoning to the extreme, we have a justice system, to deal with criminal offences, as they aren't socially acceptable. I don't particularly mind people sharing publicly free information, he is convicted, all I'm saying is, for your own safety and others, I'd keep in mind, that in this context, a quiet word, might do more harm than good.

Ruad

My head says that he's done his time and should be free to live his life. My heart says that if I knew someone talking to him in that pub, I'd have to say something to them.