The beginning of the end for taxi drivers

iamtony

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

I can only assume you are aware of Uber's 'surge pricing'. The same trip in London could vary from say £18 to £100 in just a few hours.
How does that "put the meter in the customer's pocket " ???

edit; This;
https://www.transportforireland.ie/taxi/taxi-fare-estimator/
...will give you a relatively accurate fare estimate, which cannot jump by 60% (or far more) due to the supply v demand.

The UBER fare is calculated by the app, completely different to a regular meter.

Jawgap

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

I can only assume you are aware of Uber's 'surge pricing'. The same trip in London could vary from say £18 to £100 in just a few hours.
How does that "put the meter in the customer's pocket " ???

edit; This;
https://www.transportforireland.ie/taxi/taxi-fare-estimator/
...will give you a relatively accurate fare estimate, which cannot jump by 60% (or far more) due to the supply v demand.

I am, but you get the price in advance.....if you don't like it don't take it.

Are you aware of the various rip offs drivers use now......per head charging from the airport that far exceeds the metres fare......long way round.....taking advantage of inebriated passengers to do them out of change......etc etc etc

end of the road

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Might have to cut welfare then.

And no, we should never try to twart the development of technology to protect jobs.

we have to for the greater good of insuring work and a low wellfare bill. we can't cut wellfare as it would lead to more crime

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

They retrain, we need to move away from the concept of working in the same industry all your life.

Cutting welfare if it happened would be a necessity.

they can't retrain if they're are no jobs due to automation. we don't need to move away from the concept of working in the same industry all your life otherwise some may end up never working again. cutting wellfare can't be done as we would have a huge crime rate.

mgbgt1978

iamtony wrote: »

The UBER fare is calculated by the app, completely different to a regular meter.

That's exactly what I said.
I linked to the Taxi Fare Calculator to give an indication that the Taxi Fare remains pretty much constant (if you don't let the Driver act the Boll*x) while the Uber Fare can fluctuate dramatically.
Jawgap stated that using Uber puts the 'meter in the customer's pocket'. I was merely pointing out that the reverse is true.

YFlyer

There are already videos online of these fake taxis.

Billy86

Letree wrote: »

How will these cars get out when trying to come on to a main road from a side road. In my home town you could be sitting for half hour at rush hour to get out of some side roads unless someone lets you out. Are people likely to let a driverless car out as handy. I wonder what way they would program the car to deal with it.

Scientists are way ahead of you here - http://media1.gameinformer.com/filestorage/CommunityServer.Components.SiteFiles/imagefeed/featured/warner-bros/mad-max/screengallery/madmax_magnumopuswithfuirepipes.jpg

Jawgap

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

That's exactly what I said.
I linked to the Taxi Fare Calculator to give an indication that the Taxi Fare remains pretty much constant (if you don't let the Driver act the Boll*x) while the Uber Fare can fluctuate dramatically.
Jawgap stated that using Uber puts the 'meter in the customer's pocket'. I was merely pointing out that the reverse is true.

No, because with the app you get the price in advance, you get a record the route taken and it handles the payment.....

......what does a meter give the punter? A receipt? Leaving them vulnerable to being overcharged by the driver messing around with change or dialling in a different amount to the PDQ machine if the punter presents a card.

I wonder how many boozed punters drivers will take advantage of tonight?

mgbgt1978

Jawgap wrote: »

I am, but you get the price in advance.....if you don't like it don't take it.

Are you aware of the various rip offs drivers use now......per head charging from the airport that far exceeds the metres fare......long way round.....taking advantage of inebriated passengers to do them out of change......etc etc etc

A €1 charge per additional passenger is part of the Fare Structure decided by the Taxi Regulator. It's hardly a rip-off if they are given the right to charge it by the Regulatory Body.
If a passenger (even "out-of-towners" can use a GPS APP on their phone) feels they are being taken the long way round they are perfectly entitled to tell the driver which way they want him to go.
The inebriated thing could apply to both Taxi's and Uber's. If they're that drunk anybody can tell them they owe 'so much' for the trip.

Jawgap

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

A €1 charge per additional passenger is part of the Fare Structure decided by the Taxi Regulator. It's hardly a rip-off if they are given the right to charge it by the Regulatory Body.
If a passenger (even "out-of-towners" can use a GPS APP on their phone) feels they are being taken the long way round they are perfectly entitled to tell the driver which way they want him to go.
The inebriated thing could apply to both Taxi's and Uber's. If they're that drunk anybody can tell them they owe 'so much' for the trip.

No, I'm talking about, from personal experience, 4 people getting into a taxi at the airport and bring told the fare into the city centre is a tenner per head (the driver thought all four of us were English because the other lads were nattering and I was the quiet one.....

......and the point is with apps like uber etc you have the price in advance and a record of the route taken.....you don't have to worry about directing the driver, nor bring ripped off when you hand cash over......plus you get to rate the driver and vehicle for everyone's benefit and ready access to a dispute resolution procedure. Of course drivers are against it, it re-balances the service in favour of the consumer.

mgbgt1978

Jawgap wrote: »

No, because with the app you get the price in advance, you get a record the route taken and it handles the payment.....

......what does a meter give the punter? A receipt? Leaving them vulnerable to being overcharged by the driver messing around with change or dialling in a different amount to the PDQ machine if the punter presents a card.

I wonder how many boozed punters drivers will take advantage of tonight?

I think you're missing the point here. You claimed that Uber "puts the meter in the customer's pocket".
I am simply pointing out that the customer has no input into the fare charged.....and more importantly, due to Uber's pricing structure, the fare they paid when sober could be many multiples of that later in the night.
You say if they don't like it they don't have to use them. That just leaves them stuck outside a venue because Uber has the Meter in their own pocket.

TBH it's all irrelevant in Ireland anyway as Uber can only operate here using Licenced Taxis and not charging more than the metered rate. So their biggest draw for Drivers (surge pricing) is not an option here. The Fare they quote here must not be higher than the meter rate.

edit: re your post above. That is hardly just a Dublin airport issue, it's worldwide. There's a local Taxi Company here (and many more around the country I'm sure) who do all their work through an App. No radios, calls given out in strict rotation to different areas, customers given a fixed-price fare by text when ordering.......they are the busiest company by far.
But they don't (and cannot) operate a surge pricing model. That's my biggest issue with Uber.

Jawgap

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

I think you're missing the point here. You claimed that Uber "puts the meter in the customer's pocket".
I am simply pointing out that the customer has no input into the fare charged.....and more importantly, due to Uber's pricing structure, the fare they paid when sober could be many multiples of that later in the night.
You say if they don't like it they don't have to use them. That just leaves them stuck outside a venue because Uber has the Meter in their own pocket.

TBH it's all irrelevant in Ireland anyway as Uber can only operate here using Licenced Taxis and not charging more than the metered rate. So their biggest draw for Drivers (surge pricing) is not an option here.

No the customer doesn't, but they do know the price in advance and they don't have to take it.....

.....under the current model, I take the taxi and when I arrive I have to pay - I can't exactly hand the "service" back.....in other words as a punter I'm bound in. Apps change the power balance, of course drivers are dead against it because they'll have to provide a quality service - the smelly rip off merchants will suffer at the hands of the market, the quality providers will build market share.

BabyE

Read a great article about how these ****ing nerds in silicon valley are forcing the type of society that nobody wants. Hard to argue.

Billy86

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

I can only assume you are aware of Uber's 'surge pricing'. The same trip in London could vary from say £18 to £100 in just a few hours.
How does that "put the meter in the customer's pocket " ???

edit; This;
https://www.transportforireland.ie/taxi/taxi-fare-estimator/
...will give you a relatively accurate fare estimate, which cannot jump by 60% (or far more) due to the supply v demand.

It makes you acknowledge the surge and how much it is before you order your fare (in Canada at least). A box comes up on your screen that says 'x1.6 surge costs' (e.g. 60% extra right now in your area) and you literally have to type in '1' and then '6' to acknowledge you agree with this.

That seems very fair to me. And no, I refuse to use that pun.

EDIT: I also find that if there is a surge, it's gone back down to (or near) normal within a few minutes, barring something like a morning blizzard or big event such as New Years.

Billy86

end of the road wrote: »

if it means a bigger wellfare bill, then it definitely should be protected from so called "progress"

It would be much more beneficial to look at how to change the overall system to accommodate for progress, than to attempt to curtail progress because it does not suit the current system.

mgbgt1978

Billy86 wrote: »

It makes you acknowledge the surge and how much it is before you order your fare (in Canada at least). A box comes up on your screen that says 'x1.6 surge costs' (e.g. 60% extra right now in your area) and you literally have to type in '1' and then '6' to acknowledge you agree with this.

That seems very fair to me. And no, I refuse to use that pun.

EDIT: I also find that if there is a surge, it's gone back down to (or near) normal within a few minutes, barring something like a morning blizzard or big event such as New Years.

Which is completely illegal here...
...which again is why I linked to the Fare Calculator.

Jawgap

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Which is completely illegal here...
...which again is why I linked to the Fare Calculator.

At the moment it's illegal, but things move with the times. Laws take a while to catch, but taxi drivers are deluding themselves if they think they can halt progress......either they figure a way to offer a superior service or they'll be overtaken by the technology.

Jawgap

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Which is completely illegal here...
...which again is why I linked to the Fare Calculator.

The fare 'calculator' returns the following result when you dial in Dublin Airport to Abbey Street in the city centre.....

"€19.00 to €29.80"

......that's like a 50% spread.....that's a "calculator"

andekwarhola

Give the robot cars about a year and they'll start complaining about refugees, playing the Wolfe Tones at volume, making 'mistakes' when debiting your card and claiming that 'I always go to X via the M50'.

iamtony

Jawgap wrote: »

The fare 'calculator' returns the following result when you dial in Dublin Airport to Abbey Street in the city centre.....

"€19.00 to €29.80"

......that's like a 50% spread.....that's a "calculator"

As far as I'm aware uber don't give fixed prices either. Outside Ireland they use the meter built into their app. All they tell you in advance is that the surge applies. Hailo in Ireland does offer a fixed price service for jobs out of the airport.

mgbgt1978

Jawgap wrote: »

The fare 'calculator' returns the following result when you dial in Dublin Airport to Abbey Street in the city centre.....

"€19.00 to €29.80"

......that's like a 50% spread.....that's a "calculator"

All Uber gives me for right now (as an unregistered user) is Uber Black. Estimate €35-€45.:rolleyes:

The Taxi Calculator at least gives the 'no traffic/heavy traffic' estimates.

laugh

If you automated every job you could with technology how would the economy function at all?

andekwarhola

laugh wrote: »

If you automated every job you could with technology how would the economy function at all?

Labour patterns will adapt. Plenty of jobs, even trades, have became obsolete in the past.

flutered

eeguy wrote: »

Mining trucks drive autonomously on dirt tracks day in day out. You don't need white lines and clear weather.



Well you book it through an app, which presumably has your credit card details, and I'm sure they'll have cameras inside to stop people wrecking them.

I'm waiting for the taxi sex tapes.

there is plenty of them about, i was following a link about taxi's, when low and behold

Jawgap

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

All Uber gives me for right now (as an unregistered user) is Uber Black. Estimate €35-€45.:rolleyes:

The Taxi Calculator at least gives the 'no traffic/heavy traffic' estimates.

Funny enough, uber estimate for a run I usually do in Boston is giving me a very exact $7-84 (Edit: for uberPOOL) - and spreads for the other uber 'products' - none of the spreads are greater than 20% compared to 50% for the taxi calculator here!

Billy86

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Which is completely illegal here...
...which again is why I linked to the Fare Calculator.

http://uberestimate.com - Marlay Park to Dublin airport = 39-49 Euro
https://www.transportforireland.ie/taxi/taxi-fare-estimator/ = 46 - 57 Euro

One other thing I forgot that helps offset surge charges: Uber costs less than taxis.

The surge pricing is actually a good thing in a sense, as it notifies the drivers when it is occurring too which causes a good few to rush to that area (subway stations following breakdowns are a common one apparently), which in turn alleviates the surge. Say if I were standing on O'Connell St. at 3am on a Saturday night/Sunday morning or in town during rush hour and needing to get somewhere, I'd much rather having the option of paying extra than not having the option to get one at all.

And like I said, it's not like they sneak this fee on you. You literally have to type in how much it says the surge is before being able to order one. Not even 'tap here to agree' - they go out of their way to make you put in how much it is. If it's at something absurd like x4.5 (blizzards, New Years) you know long before even requesting the ride that you usual $10 fare will now be about $45. I don't see that as a bad deal on the consumer at all.

mgbgt1978

@Jawgap. So you can do a check for an Uber run in Boston but couldn't manage to do a quick comparison for the same Airport/ Abbey st run in Dublin between Taxis and Uber ?

See ya....

Billy86

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

All Uber gives me for right now (as an unregistered user) is Uber Black. Estimate €35-€45.:rolleyes:

The Taxi Calculator at least gives the 'no traffic/heavy traffic' estimates.

Yeah, and it's telling me Marlay Park to Dublin airport in heavy traffic is about 48 mins.

Uhhh.... nnnnope! :pac:

Jawgap

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

@Jawgap. So you can do a check for an Uber run in Boston but couldn't manage to do a quick comparison for the same Airport/ Abbey st run in Dublin between Taxis and Uber ?

See ya....

Well not all uber products are available here, and to be honest I've never used an uber in Ireland - I rarely use taxis (got fed up getting ripped off) and work tends to use Murrays or Devine's for airport runs.

alb

laugh wrote: »

If you automated every job you could with technology how would the economy function at all?

We're about to find out.

Billy86

Jawgap wrote: »

Well not all uber products are available here, and to be honest I've never used an uber in Ireland - I rarely use taxis (got fed up getting ripped off) and work tends to use Murrays or Devine's for airport runs.

What's the deal there with Satnavs by the way? Every Uber I've got here has a Satnav in it that the driver apparently has to follow, unless otherwise instructed. It's very handy against the carry on where you see tourists brought from Dublin Airport to the city centre via Dundrum.

riclad

there s a big parking area for taxi,s in dublin airport ,
I cant imagine a time when its hard to get a taxi from the airport ,
and you have the choice of using a bus .
the point of uber in the usa is its easy to use,
Almost anyone can be a uber driver , it competes with the old system
where only owners of a medallion could drive a taxi.
A medallion in the us was 50,000 dollars plus.
Right now the market in ireland is deregulated ,
all you have to do to drive a taxi, is pass a test ,re maps ,street locations, ,your car is tested ,
and your meter is tested .
i think it,ll be ten years before we see self driving cars In everyday use in dublin,
Dublin has many short narrow streets and theres always roadworks ,
bus lanes and one way systems .
american citys have wide motorways and a grid layout system of roads .

Billy86

riclad wrote: »

the point of uber in the usa is its easy to use,

How would it be more difficult to use in Ireland?

El Hombre

A few things here

1. With human drivers gone, how is the income tax and other government levies to be made back on a driverless car, bus or lorry? Will Uber, Google and the likes be expected to pay massive taxes? Vat on customer charges and normal taxes by a company won't cut it

If so where do you think they'll make back the extra money?

2. This whole "oh any job lost will have new jobs in building and engineer jobs to maintain the cars replace them"

Well most of the bloody things will be built on an autonomous assembly lines even more than cars and that are now and for example do you really think say 30,000 drivers let go will result in anywhere near that number of maintenance jobs? Maybe a couple thousand if you are lucky.

3. How will we cope with the welfare bill down the line? It's easy say oh let them retrain, but as what? The amount of occupations looking to use autonomous tech means their will be severely reduced options

4. Lads saying reduce or cut welfare entirely then if their are too many people on it as a result, eh do you think they'll be happy sit on the side of the road wasting away like a portrait of a famine victim? I think lads will get a sharp shock when they are being broken into and mugged due to people trying to survive.

Frankly, a first step into an era of automation such as driveeless taxis and lorries might be handled.

But I think down the road from that where we may be looking at 60-75% of human labor opportunities gone due to increasing numbers of job loss to automatic tech society is gonna have a problem we wont even be able to begin to handle.

eeguy

BabyE wrote: »

Read a great article about how these ****ing nerds in silicon valley are forcing the type of society that nobody wants. Hard to argue.

I'm fairly sure most people awant a society where you're chauffeured everywhere.

mgbgt1978

riclad wrote: »

there s a big parking area for taxi,s in dublin airport ,
I cant imagine a time when its hard to get a taxi from the airport ,
and you have the choice of using a bus .
the point of uber in the usa is its easy to use,
Almost anyone can be a uber driver , it competes with the old system
where only owners of a medallion could drive a taxi.
A medallion in the us was 50,000 dollars plus.
Right now the market in ireland is deregulated ,
all you have to do to drive a taxi, is pass a test ,re maps ,street locations, ,your car is tested ,
and your meter is tested .
i think it,ll be ten years before we see self driving cars In everyday use in dublin,
Dublin has many short narrow streets and theres always roadworks ,
bus lanes and one way systems .
american citys have wide motorways and a grid layout system of roads .

On paper yes,
however from nationaltransport.ie;

At present, the National Transport Authority is accepting applications for new vehicle licences only for wheelchair accessible taxis, wheelchair accessible hackneys, local area hackneys and limousines

so it's wheelchair accessible only for new entrants...and they will always have to remain as a wheelchair accessible Taxi, even when changing their vehicle.

As for the Uberpop (private cars) advocates, it seems they don't want them here yet;

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/shane-ross-advised-not-to-extend-uber-beyond-taxi-drivers-1.2655145

Billy86

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

As for the Uberpop (private cars) advocates, it seems they don't want them here yet;

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/shane-ross-advised-not-to-extend-uber-beyond-taxi-drivers-1.2655145

They tried the same in Toronto and it failed miserably. The advantage that the Irish taxi lobby has is that (as best I know) Uber is not there yet, so people will not be aware of what they are missing. I doubt that would last too long though, with the internet, how easy it is to travel to other countries and use Uber on holidays etc, and hearing about how it works from friends and family living abroad given how often Irish people move abroad for work.

Public opinion won here, and likely would do the same in Ireland in time. The taxi drivers had a mickey fit, and it changed nothing.

For what I am aware though, the taxi industry here was regulated so a bit like Ireland 15 years back. That played a big role in people telling the taxi drivers to f*** themselves, getting sick having to walk miles out of the way to get a taxi while others decided they 'didnt want' the fare because of how the person was dressed, because they didn't think the fare was worthwhile ($$$), or because they weren't sexy women dolled up to the nines.

As far as I am concerned, Irish taxi drivers around before deregulation were the exact same (I know that for a fact based on personal experience), and Irish taxi drivers who started after deregulation were more than happy to move in on others peoples' businesses, so they don't have much leg to stand on when it comes to people moving in on theirs.

mgbgt1978

Billy86 wrote: »

What's the deal there with Satnavs by the way? Every Uber I've got here has a Satnav in it that the driver apparently has to follow, unless otherwise instructed. It's very handy against the carry on where you see tourists brought from Dublin Airport to the city centre via Dundrum.

Perhaps that traffic info is harvested from all the Uber Drivers and maybe they sell it to the organisations that can use it. Traffic news reports, City councils etc.
Maybe if you "hail" an Uber from a certain Store/Restaurant/etc regularly, you might just see Ads from that Establishment popping up on your Facebook or Google homepage later on.
I'm sure it's more than just for the customer's benefit.

Elliott S

murpho999 wrote: »

Of course, as all roads in America are completely straight.

Not all of course, but most American towns and cities are built around a grid system.

Billy86

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Perhaps that traffic info is harvested from all the Uber Drivers and maybe they sell it to the organisations that can use it. Traffic news reports, City councils etc.
Maybe if you "hail" an Uber from a certain Store/Restaurant/etc regularly, you might just see Ads from that Establishment popping up on your Facebook or Google homepage later on.
I'm sure it's more than just for the customer's benefit.

Location based ads happen already, and using people working in traffic to help report on/track traffic for the news if a good thing, not just for potential customers but for everyone. I fail to see what the problem there is?

mgbgt1978

Billy86 wrote: »

They tried the same in Toronto and it failed miserably. The advantage that the Irish taxi lobby has is that (as best I know) Uber is not there yet, so people will not be aware of what they are missing. I doubt that would last too long though, with the internet, how easy it is to travel to other countries and use Uber on holidays etc, and hearing about how it works from friends and family living abroad given how often Irish people move abroad for work.

Public opinion won here, and likely would do the same in Ireland in time.

There are a lot more issues here in Ireland than just the Licensing. At present a "Private" Individual could not do any Uber work under their motor Insurance Policy. Insurance rates are at an all time high here right now and will probably take years to settle down to a more affordable level. That would be a huge issue.
There are (apparently) more licenced Taxis in dublin today than there are in Central New York. there is very little chance of the Government interfering with that situation.
The law also states that you need to have a "PSV Drivers Licence" to carry passengers for hire or reward. Either that stipulation would have to be removed or else anybody wishing to join as an Uber Driver would have to sit the Test.

Finally, Public opinion in Ireland is rarely a Government consideration, unless it benefits them in a large capacity.

mgbgt1978

Billy86 wrote: »

Location based ads happen already, and using people working in traffic to help report on/track traffic for the news if a good thing, not just for potential customers but for everyone. I fail to see what the problem there is?

You asked the question without seeming to realise why Satnavs are used.
I'm glad you're suddenly an expert on the underlying reason for their usage :rolleyes:

I never said there was a problem.

riclad

Is there not apps like hailo ,in the irish market right now .We probably have enough Taxi drivers here already,
Uber provided new competition in the us by allowing new drivers to enter the market ,and by provided an advanced easy to use app for
finding drivers and making it easy to pay your fare using your phone.
i don,t see a big market her for uber to get into .
the taxi lobby here does not have much power vs public opinion .

Billy86

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

There are a lot more issues here in Ireland than just the Licensing. At present a "Private" Individual could not do any Uber work under their motor Insurance Policy. Insurance rates are at an all time high here right now and will probably take years to settle down to a more affordable level. That would be a huge issue.
There are (apparently) more licenced Taxis in dublin today than there are in Central New York. there is very little chance of the Government interfering with that situation.
The law also states that you need to have a "PSV Drivers Licence" to carry passengers for hire or reward. Either that stipulation would have to be removed or else anybody wishing to join as an Uber Driver would have to sit the Test.

Finally, Public opinion in Ireland is rarely a Government consideration, unless it benefits them in a large capacity.

Some very good points there, though the insurance one is a potentially very good point, though to be honest having worked in that industry, it's one of the things I most look forward to in automated cars. If ever there were an entire industry that deserved to crash and burn... scummy to the absolute core in almost every conceivable way. Drug dealers make a more honest living.

We are a small market, which would likely mean Uber wouldn't put as much emphasis as getting access to us as with the likes of the UK, etc. Though I do reckon public opinion would sway it, if we wind up one of the only countries in the world without it.

Billy86

riclad wrote: »

Is there not apps like hailo ,in the irish market right now .We probably have enough Taxi drivers here already,
uber provided new competition in the us by allowing new drivers to enter the market ,and by provided an advanced easy to use app for
finding drivers and making it easy to pay your fare using your phone.
i don,t see a big market her for uber to get into .

The presence of Hailo would hold it off for a bit, but I'd actually say the market for people who would prefer to pay 20% less per taxi ride is reasonably large, myself.

I also wonder if it might be good strategy from Uber to buy out Hailo?

iamtony

Billy86 wrote: »

The presence of Hailo would hold it off for a bit, but I'd actually say the market for people who would prefer to pay 20% less per taxi ride is reasonably large, myself.

I also wonder if it might be good strategy from Uber to buy out Hailo?

Hailo have recently merged with myTaxi(and will rebrand as MyTaxi)to become the biggest Taxi app in Europe. So I'd say it would cost quite a bit to buy them out now. I think myTaxi is financed by a big car manufacturer so I don't think they would be willing to let it go that easy.

Billy86

iamtony wrote: »

Hailo have recently merged with myTaxi(and will rebrand as MyTaxi)to become the biggest Taxi app in Europe. So I'd say it would cost quite a bit to buy them out now. I think myTaxi is financed by a big car manufacturer so I don't think they would be willing to let it go that easy.

That os interesting. Any idea on the total value or clout? Just curious since I looked up Uber who are valued at $50bn, and have Google on board. Can't speak for all of North America of course, but they are absolutely huge in and around Toronto (similar population to Ireland without the north).

wakka12

El Hombre wrote: »

A few things here

1. With human drivers gone, how is the income tax and other government levies to be made back on a driverless car, bus or lorry? Will Uber, Google and the likes be expected to pay massive taxes? Vat on customer charges and normal taxes by a company won't cut it

If so where do you think they'll make back the extra money?

2. This whole "oh any job lost will have new jobs in building and engineer jobs to maintain the cars replace them"

Well most of the bloody things will be built on an autonomous assembly lines even more than cars and that are now and for example do you really think say 30,000 drivers let go will result in anywhere near that number of maintenance jobs? Maybe a couple thousand if you are lucky.

3. How will we cope with the welfare bill down the line? It's easy say oh let them retrain, but as what? The amount of occupations looking to use autonomous tech means their will be severely reduced options

4. Lads saying reduce or cut welfare entirely then if their are too many people on it as a result, eh do you think they'll be happy sit on the side of the road wasting away like a portrait of a famine victim? I think lads will get a sharp shock when they are being broken into and mugged due to people trying to survive.

Frankly, a first step into an era of automation such as driveeless taxis and lorries might be handled.

But I think down the road from that where we may be looking at 60-75% of human labor opportunities gone due to increasing numbers of job loss to automatic tech society is gonna have a problem we wont even be able to begin to handle.

I always hear that excuse, that the many jobs lost in certain sectors will all be replaced in robotics engineering or whatever. But realistically they wont, robots are going to leave a huge percentage of people in a vast number of sectors unemployed with very little other job opportunities. Robots arent going to improve the world, I hope we don't put money before human jobs and keep people employed for the betterment of humanity. But inevitably this will occur. but its just scary, practically every job can be done by a robot, and better. So often theres no argument for why they wouldnt replace us..

El Hombre

wakka12 wrote: »

I always hear that excuse, that the many jobs lost in certain sectors will all be replaced in robotics engineering or whatever. But realistically they wont, robots are going to leave a huge percentage of people in a vast number of sectors unemployed with very little other job opportunities. Robots arent going to improve the world, I hope we don't put money before human jobs and keep people employed for the betterment of humanity. But inevitably this will occur. but its just scary, practically every job can be done by a robot, and better. So often theres no argument for why they wouldnt replace us..

Agreed.

However something I was musing on did give me a laugh if large scale unemployment happens as robots replace jobs who will have the money to buy all the goods and services they are churning out :pac: It could very well be companies bring in robots only to see sales bottom and they are left crippled which is actually the inevitable fate I think should it happen.

Donald Trump

The Backwards Man wrote: »

There's one chink in that utopian chain that will never be seamless.

People.

Ah heeeooooor, leave it bleeeeedin ouh

Chuchote

In France, there's a carpooling thing called Bla Bla Car (https://www.blablacar.fr), a system where you can arrange to share lifts and petrol price. Works really well and is highly popular, and means that most cars are full on city-to-city journeys. I'm sure it would be possible to set up the same kind of thing here – think of the difference to a journey out to the airport from most parts of Dublin!