AMD Zen Discussion Thread

Slutmonkey57b

JoyPad wrote: »

Speaking of temps...

My new 5950X was running quite hot. Temps at idle were around 60C, and it was going up to 80C during Aida64 stress test.
This is installed on a brand new Asus Rog Strix B550-F (WiFi) motherboard, which was bought in October. I had to flash the most recent BIOS on it to POST with the 5950X. The only change I did was to modify the Memory Frequency parameter to 3200Mhz, everything else was left untouched.
I saw no problems whatsoever, other than the noisy fans. They were cranked pretty high whenever I did anything on the PC.

My son's PC was built with a bundle from Scan. Same CPU, on an Asus RoG Strix X570-F motherboard, similar RAM (same frequency), and a similar AIO cooler. His CPU idles in the low 40s, and goes up to high 60s during stress test. Quiet all the way, you can barely hear the fans when the stress test is running. I was jealous!

This morning, I was ready to crack it open and re-check the cooler, clean and re-paste, the whole shebang!
But a quick thought: let's check what Scan put in his BIOS settings. So, I started his PC, wrote down every setting in the "Tweaking" part of the BIOS, and verified against my defaults. The one setting that was different was "Overclock Tuner": mine was set on Auto, his on DOCP. I half-heartedly changed mine to match his, thinking there's no way that would be the difference. But it was! Now my CPU idles in the low 40s too, and doesn't reach 70C under stress test! Same as his!

I know I don't know much about the BIOS settings, particularly for AMD (this is my second ever AMD CPU, after my first PC ran an AMD 486 80MHz, in 1995). But I am terribly happy not to have to crack the PC open again and do the cooler re-jig. Thank you, Scan!

This was similar to my experience of the 3600 - the default behaviour on Zen is very bursty, inconsistent, and results in high temps. Since all Ryzens are released pretty close to their maximum headroom I put this down to AMD defaulting to get the max out of the CPU in every situation. Given the position they were in with bulldozer this makes sense. However eliminating that bursty behaviour actually results in basically the same performance, with lower temps and slower fans.

_CreeD_

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Speaking of temps and coolers - will the Wraith Prism RGB off a 3700X be enough cooling for a 5800X for gaming?

Most tests I've seen put the 5800x anywhere from 10-20% higher on power use for multithread/heavy usage, but sometimes lower for idle. Thermals should be inline. You might get away with the Wraith but you will be pushing it harder/louder and are more at risk of thermal throttling. I'd say if budget is a constraint then put it on and see if you are getting expected results for performance and if the fan noise is not a deal breaker. Worst case scenario the CPU will throttle and you can then decide if a new cooler is worth it to you.

K.O.Kiki

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Speaking of temps and coolers - will the Wraith Prism RGB off a 3700X be enough cooling for a 5800X for gaming?

Should be, but it will likely be loud.

K.O.Kiki

If anyone's desperate, I'm seeing Ryzen CPUs on AliExpress:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001705446624.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.2dae64feRTIfs9&algo_pvid=7663ed4e-f487-4d13-9c7a-4a183a0c962a&algo_expid=7663ed4e-f487-4d13-9c7a-4a183a0c962a-1&btsid=0bb0624316063476027016201ea793&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001756745652.html?

wingnut32

I managed to get a 5600x from caseking.de thats on the way. Luckily I also got a 5800x from alternate today. The 5600x will be going up for sale as soon as it arrives.

Samuel T. Cogley

Whats drawing you to the 5800X, if you don't mind me asking? I'm trying to justify the extra £124 to myself.

LineConsole

Here's my geekbench score for the 5800x with no overclocking.

wingnut32

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Whats drawing you to the 5800X, if you don't mind me asking? I'm trying to justify the extra £124 to myself.

Its definitely not good value but I just had my heart set on the 5800x from the start. Future proofing?

GHOST MGG

wingnut32 wrote: »

Its definitely not good value but I just had my heart set on the 5800x from the start. Future proofing?

No such thing as future proofing unfortunately..with RDNA 3 and new chipset motherboards allegedly due before quarter 1 2022 this new range of AMD processors will be superceeded soon

Rob2D

GHOST MGG wrote: »

No such thing as future proofing unfortunately..with RDNA 3 and new chipset motherboards allegedly due before quarter 1 2022 this new range of AMD processors will be superceeded soon

This is what's annoying me. I need to upgrade from my 4790K but knowing the next big Ryzen leap will happen this time next year makes it difficult.

Shlippery

You can't win, every delay just brings us closer to the next generation of chips!!

It's an unhealthy addiction to maintain the latest and greatest...


PC Building..not even once!

GHOST MGG

Rob2D wrote: »

This is what's annoying me. I need to upgrade from my 4790K but knowing the next big Ryzen leap will happen this time next year makes it difficult.

and if you wait for the next new ryzen leap you can be sure that AMD will already have a roadmap out for bigger and better..its a crazy merry go round....you just need to bite the bullet when you feel that the current offerings give you major uplift on the pc you are using currently
The 4790k is nearly 7 yrs old..a ryzen 5 5600x would be a major upgrade

Homelander

GHOST MGG wrote: »

No such thing as future proofing unfortunately..with RDNA 3 and new chipset motherboards allegedly due before quarter 1 2022 this new range of AMD processors will be superceeded soon

I don't think that's true in relation to the 5600X v 5800X. It makes sense to "future proof" with the 5800x.

It'll last the best part of a decade very well. The 5600X won't, at least not for games.

Obviously there will always be a generational increases on the exact item you're buying at any point, be it hex core, octo core, whatever.

But if you want to just buy a CPU now and not having to worry about it for 8 odd years, the 5800X is about perfect.

I mean Ryzen 5x is just released and already people on old processors hesitate to buy because someone better is coming along in a years time or more....

By that logic you'd never buy anything.

yoshiktk

Rob2D wrote: »

This is what's annoying me. I need to upgrade from my 4790K but knowing the next big Ryzen leap will happen this time next year makes it difficult.

Im in similar situation, as an owner of 2600, decided to slowly go for x570 with 5900x. Ive the opportunity to replace part at the time thx to am4 socket. I dont suppose that even with new Ryzen the jump gonna be so big, the current gen still gonna be a grest piece of tech.

BloodBath

A necessary upgrade for any gpu more powerful than a 2060 or 5700 imo, even those would be bottlenecked by an old quad core like that.

The 5600x is showing up around 30% average fps gain on modern gpus over a 3600x.

Hard to justify spending too big with 5nm, pcie5 and ddr5 possibly here by this time next year but it's needed if you want any newish gpu.

Slutmonkey57b

GHOST MGG wrote: »

and if you wait for the next new ryzen leap you can be sure that AMD will already have a roadmap out for bigger and better..its a crazy merry go round....you just need to bite the bullet when you feel that the current offerings give you major uplift on the pc you are using currently
The 4790k is nearly 7 yrs old..a ryzen 5 5600x would be a major upgrade

Absolutely. The first question you should ask yourself is what type of buyer /builder you are. If you're the type who wants to keep up all the time, or who wants to dedicate a lot of money regularly to it, then maybe it matters whether to wait for zen4 and the ddr5 boards next year.

Otherwise, I would size up what you will actually be doing on the budget you've got and try to get it right for "right now". Best combination going is a b550 board with a 5600x for gaming or a 5900x if you need the cores. Gpu wise, choose based on budget or wait till the new year. If you're they type to only upgrade 3+ years or more, then you're only better off waiting if there's something meaningful happening in a couple of weeks / months.

GHOST MGG

Homelander wrote: »

I don't think that's true in relation to the 5600X v 5800X. It makes sense to "future proof" with the 5800x.

Not sure i agree there..If you only want to game a 479 euro 5800x is way overkill when a 5600x is within 10% of it in gaming terms and 179 euros cheaper.

I know what your trying to say and i would agree with you,if you were going to use the 5800x as a content creator,streamer or editor than that would be a better move core wise

Personally i have never had a cpu in my machine for 10 years, closest was a texas instruments chip in 1980...i had that in a machine for 9 yrs,and i actually still have it in the attic..was my first time constructing and deconstructing computers..great memories

BloodBath

You can offload streaming to the gpu now anyway using Nvidias NvEnc encoder.

5800x is a better long term prospect but you would be better off getting a 5600x now and upgrade to a 5nm 8 core in a year or 2 if you don't need the extra cores for something else.

Homelander

But we're talking about over the course of about 8 years. Loads of people buy a CPU wanting it to last as long as is practically possible without having to upgrade.

I mean guy above is still on a 4790K. That's almost 7 years old. Plenty of people still rocking older 3770K type CPU's as well.

They have lasted way longer than their quad-core,quad-thread counterparts, i5-4x and i5 3x.

5800X is the same relevant to the 5600X. Given that the new consoles are basically 3700X based, the 5800X will come into its own in a few years.

People have a habit sometimes of confusing the exact needs of the day of purchase with future needs.

That's what "future proofing" means. That you're looking ahead, not to literally tomorrow but next year, the year after, and even five years down the line.

Same with VRAM. Already there are people saying "Sure no game uses more than 8GB" with regards Nvidia's scabby ram.

That's grand today, but it's hardly unreasonable to expect a €600-€800 card to not have to lower settings 2 years after you bought it.

Not everyone is an enthusiast. 90% of the builds here will never upgrade their CPU, they will simply go until their system becomes obsolete and they need a new one.

My house-mate built a new Ryzen 3600 the other day...previous CPU was an i5-4670. My friend is still rocking an i5-2500.

The vast majority of people don't go through CPU cycles, they simply buy a machine and run it for 5/6+ years and build a new one once that one is on its last legs.

BloodBath

That was fine back in the day of 60hz gaming and intels 10% IPC improvement with the same core count for around 8 generations.

Now with high refresh gaming and 30%+ IPC improvements and improved core counts it's not the case. GPU's have out scaled cpu's. That's why more and more things are getting offloaded to the gpu to handle.

Even last gens 3600x 6 core is a big bottleneck for current mid to high end gpu's for 144hz+ gaming.

Rob2D

Yeah I'm more the long term guy. Only reason I'm even on a 4790K is because I brought my 4770K into work last year!

And what makes it even worse right now is that it's pointless even trying to buy anything this side of Christmas. When will stock levels be back to normal? Febuary, March? At that point I'll only be getting a few months use until the real new hotness comes along.

yoshiktk

Rob2D wrote: »

Yeah I'm more the long term guy. Only reason I'm even on a 4790K is because I brought my 4770K into work last year!

And what makes it even worse right now is that it's pointless even trying to buy anything this side of Christmas. When will stock levels be back to normal? Febuary, March? At that point I'll only be getting a few months use until the real new hotness comes along.

Or You could go middle ground. Friend at work promised his daughters new pc for christmas, with all this madness couldnt get his hands on neither cpu nor gpu. Went for x570 with used 3600 and 2080, both which he was lucky to get dirt cheap from a guy who managed to upgrade. Maybe that could be an option? Than in future just swap it with 5800/5900 and you will have decent machine for couple next years.
Or You can wait and wait and wait. Theres gonna be something new and better always on horizon.

wotzgoingon

yoshiktk wrote: »

Or You could go middle ground. Friend at work promised his daughters new pc for christmas, with all this madness couldnt get his hands on neither cpu nor gpu. Went for x570 with used 3600 and 2080, both which he was lucky to get dirt cheap from a guy who managed to upgrade. Maybe that could be an option? Than in future just swap it with 5800/5900 and you will have decent machine for couple next years.
Or You can wait and wait and wait. Theres gonna be something new and better always on horizon.

I have a 3700X that I was suppose to sell to someone on here but for now I will stick with the 3700X and pick up a 5800X some time in the future once they are readily available and drop in price(I'm thinking after the H2 of next year). The 3700X is still no slouch though.

kingtiger

wotzgoingon wrote: »

I have a 3700X that I was suppose to sell to someone on here but for now I will stick with the 3700X.

That was me but I was lucky to pick up a 5600x direct from Amazon for RRP

JoyPad

Sorry about the rant, but I would appreciate any help.

I saw this video this morning. The upgrade was very similar to mine, going from i7 7700K to an ASUS Rog Strix B550 motherboard and Ryzen CPU. When he mentioned the BIOS changes I thought "why didn't you make this video a week ago, when I was struggling with the temps?".

Later in the video, he speaks about the chipset drivers, which many people forget to install. I was not one of them, I did install every driver from the ASUS support page: chipset, LAN, wireless, audio, Bluetooth.
However, I do not have the Ryzen specific power profile that he shows in the video. I re-installed the chipset drivers today, but the power options remain the same (one balanced, one performance, same as they were before).

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?
Thanks!

game4it70

Download the chipset driver from AMD here,
https://www.amd.com/en/support

JoyPad

game4it70 wrote: »

Download the chipset driver from AMD here,
https://www.amd.com/en/support

Tried that too, still no dice.
Installation is successful, I reboot, and the power options remain the same.

cromelex

Zen 3 doesn't require the specific power profile, windows balanced will suffice according to AMD. So the AMD specific plan doesn't get installed with the chipset drivers for this.

_CreeD_

Moar powarrrr - https://www.howtogeek.com/368781/how-to-enable-ultimate-performance-power-plan-in-windows-10/

GHOST MGG

What cromlex said..its not like the 3000 series where there was a specific amd powerplan included in chipset drivers
5000 series is designed to use windows 10 balanced power plan according to one of the amd admins here https://community.amd.com/t5/processors/missing-power-plans-on-amd-ryzen-5000-series/td-p/259920