AMD Zen Discussion Thread

Slutmonkey57b

I think a key difference is that CTR 1 was built largely on open source code, and some contributors were not pleased with 1usmus' lack of clarity about the code, and his refusal to honour some of the licensing agreements, supposedly because it was "beta" and therefore he felt he didn't have to. (shaky ground imo) CTR 2 is supposedly rewritten from scratch not to include any open source code, and he's clearly looking for commercial success with it.

But his conduct has gotten shadier the longer the project has gone on, and this stunt to me is a final nail in the coffin : he's skirted up to the edge on a number of issues but his reaction to this very serious flaw is proof that without the open source code he's stuck, and the quality of his own work isn't reliable, certainly not reliable enough to trust your investment with.

tazzzZ

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

I think a key difference is that CTR 1 was built largely on open source code, and some contributors were not pleased with 1usmus' lack of clarity about the code, and his refusal to honour some of the licensing agreements, supposedly because it was "beta" and therefore he felt he didn't have to. (shaky ground imo) CTR 2 is supposedly rewritten from scratch not to include any open source code, and he's clearly looking for commercial success with it.

But his conduct has gotten shadier the longer the project has gone on, and this stunt to me is a final nail in the coffin : he's skirted up to the edge on a number of issues but his reaction to this very serious flaw is proof that without the open source code he's stuck, and the quality of his own work isn't reliable, certainly not reliable enough to trust your investment with.

Very fair.

I dont think anyone can recommend it for general use yet. If at all, if the coding is as shady as you suggest. Again this isnt something I'm as aware of. PBO and curve optimiser is the way to go for overclocking.

But I suppose if you do decide to use it dont take CTR 2.0 as a beginner friendly utility at all. In fact, you should be more aware using this than any other utility as this has reported issues, serious issues at that! other utilities have far more fail safes involved. Anyone interested in using it should be very aware before even thinking about using it. If you do decide to use it I do suggest Igorslab guide rather than 1USMUS's. As I found it to be the easiest to follow and gave the best/ most clear warnings about its issues.

cromelex

Is there really even a point in using this for Zen3?

From my own experience, with a X570 board and a 5600X, I just had to turn on PBO2 and auto overclock and test a few different settings on the Curve optimiser.


4840mhz boost single core, 4764mhz boost all cores, and it's super stable. Like, no crashes on benchmarks and even Cyberpunk stable (can play it without crashing!). Fair enough, it take a few more clicks, but it is still very simple. Only voltage I have ser manually is the RAM.

Post where I shared previous results months ago.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115410945&postcount=3281

tazzzZ

cromelex wrote: »

Is there really even a point in using this for Zen3?

From my own experience, with a X570 board and a 5600X, I just had to turn on PBO2 and auto overclock and test a few different settings on the Curve optimiser.


4840mhz boost single core, 4764mhz boost all cores, and it's super stable. Like, no crashes on benchmarks and even Cyberpunk stable (can play it without crashing!). Fair enough, it take a few more clicks, but it is still very simple. Only voltage I have ser manually is the RAM.

Post where I shared previous results months ago.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115410945&postcount=3281

Right now, no I would not recommend this to anyone. There is so many things you need to be aware of while using it. And if you make a mistake you really can damage your CPU.

Stick to PBO and curve optimiser. You should get a little bump and save a little power too if you set it up right. More importantly you can just not think about it after that.

Aodhan5000

tazzzZ wrote: »

Right now, no I would not recommend this to anyone. There is so many things you need to be aware of while using it. And if you make a mistake you really can damage your CPU.

Stick to PBO and curve optimiser. You should get a little bump and save a little power too if you set it up right. More importantly you can just not think about it after that.

I thought PBO2 was better than PBO because the undervolting drops temps allowing higher clocks and it doesn't void your warranty but PBO does. I reckon Zen 3 just PBO2 is the way to go.

tazzzZ

Aodhan5000 wrote: »

I thought PBO2 was better than PBO because the undervolting drops temps allowing higher clocks and it doesn't void your warranty but PBO does. I reckon Zen 3 just PBO2 is the way to go.

If you overclock your CPU in anyway AMD do not have to stand over the warranty. This includes PBO2. I get a big warranting about this before I can enable this in my BIOS. Now that being said I have no idea of anyone who tried to return a chip after causing damage this way, so in practice I have no idea. But officially you void your warranty if you use PBO2. Unless this has changed someone else may know more than I do.

Aodhan5000

tazzzZ wrote: »

If you overclock your CPU in anyway AMD do not have to stand over the warranty. This includes PBO2. I get a big warranting about this before I can enable this in my BIOS. Now that being said I have no idea of anyone who tried to return a chip after causing damage this way, so in practice I have no idea. But officially you void your warranty if you use PBO2. Unless this has changed someone else may know more than I do.

Ya just double checked it there on and you're dead right, PBO2 voids warranty as well. Really curious about how they check if you enabled it or if it's just a case like intel saying XMP voids warranty but having no way to check it so they'd just be relying on your word

tazzzZ

Aodhan5000 wrote: »

Ya just double checked it there on and you're dead right, PBO2 voids warranty as well. Really curious about how they check if you enabled it or if it's just a case like intel saying XMP voids warranty but having no way to check it so they'd just be relying on your word

Yea that exactly why i mentioned that I have no idea how it works in practice. But I think it will come down to if you cause damage... the damage caused might very clearly be from overclocking and not knowing what you are doing. But if the issue isnt clearly overclocking related they might honour the warranty but Im just speculating here... I have no idea how it really works.

Aodhan5000

Feel like a bit of a fool waiting for a 5600 non X so reckon I'm just gonna pull the trigger on a 3600 because I've had a b550 board sitting here since Xmas. Shame AMD couldn't get non X out quicker, would've won the crowd but anyway

.G.

I've tried CTR and it defo improved my scores over stock while also dropping voltage. My 5900x under stock BIOS settings with PBO on auto regularly asks for and receives 1.5v from the board which really is not healthy if everything I've read is accurate. With CTR I can get better all core scores, stable performance and lower voltages at higher all core clocks but it still allows PBO to operate in low usage scenarios so the chip is still taking 1.5v when that happens. It boost to 4950mhz on two cores under PBO.

All that said I was able to get much better scores myself playing around with the scalar settings, curve and the boost overhead in the advanced PBO menu but I can never get any of them stable so It's just left on auto. Don't know if its sh!tty bios I have or a poor chip, last bios update certainly improved things, couldn't use +200mhz or the curve at all on the previous version, but its still not great.

tazzzZ

.G. wrote: »

I've tried CTR and it defo improved my scores over stock while also dropping voltage. My 5900x under stock BIOS settings with PBO on auto regularly asks for and receives 1.5v from the board which really is not healthy if everything I've read is accurate. With CTR I can get better all core scores, stable performance and lower voltages at higher all core clocks but it still allows PBO to operate in low usage scenarios so the chip is still taking 1.5v when that happens. It boost to 4950mhz on two cores under PBO.

All that said I was able to get much better scores myself playing around with the scalar settings, curve and the boost overhead in the advanced PBO menu but I can never get any of them stable so It's just left on auto. Don't know if its sh!tty bios I have or a poor chip, last bios update certainly improved things, couldn't use +200mhz or the curve at all on the previous version, but its still not great.

AFAIK from what ive read 1.5v can be absolutely fine for the split seconds its used to get those high clock speeds. And it will never do this under any serious load. You will find if you put any kind of sustained serious load on the CPU, with PBO, it will drop the speeds down to the 3.8 - 3.9Ghz or there abouts and only 1v. In my case that is with PBO +200 and a curve op of -10.

_CreeD_

I finally updated my BIOS and enabled the base PBO2 features. Got a decent enough bump, all-core settles at 4.525GHz and have 7 of them regularly boosting to between 5-5.1GHz under normal use (previously on PBO1 a single core would make it that far, with the rest between 4.7-4.8).

SickBoy

_CreeD_ wrote: »

I finally updated my BIOS and enabled the base PBO2 features. Got a decent enough bump, all-core settles at 4.525GHz and have 7 of them regularly boosting to between 5-5.1GHz under normal use (previously on PBO1 a single core would make it that far, with the rest between 4.7-4.8).

On a 5950x?

tazzzZ

_CreeD_ wrote: »

I finally updated my BIOS and enabled the base PBO2 features. Got a decent enough bump, all-core settles at 4.525GHz and have 7 of them regularly boosting to between 5-5.1GHz under normal use (previously on PBO1 a single core would make it that far, with the rest between 4.7-4.8).

im on a 5950x and i get nothing like this... what monitoring software are you using and settings? i have seen spikes of 5.1 (just below this) and all core will be 3.9+ but never 4

_CreeD_

Sorry I didn't see these updates. Yes a 5950x, monitoring with HWInfo, hooked up to an Arctic Freezer II 420. Some under direct load and then I just left it running for a days use.

Edit: Left HWInfo running over the day and then did a stress test. Columns are - Current | Minimum | Maximum | Average.

Standard CPU:


CPU Effective:

K.O.Kiki

Managed to buy a 5600X from AMD direct.

Going to run some benchmarks, etc for the next week or 2 to have data for comparison.

buzzerxx

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Managed to buy a 5600X from AMD direct.

Going to run some benchmarks, etc for the next week or 2 to have data for comparison.

How much did you get it for?

wotzgoingon

buzzerxx wrote: »

How much did you get it for?

They are €310 on AMD's site plus shipping to be added on top.

wotzgoingon

The 5800X is still up on AMD's website if anybody is looking for one.

wotzgoingon

5800X and 5600X up on AMD site. The 5600X is only €310.

K.O.Kiki

5900X available too!

wotzgoingon

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

5900X available too!

They went in seconds. If you try to add it to cart it is unavailable.

Squidgy Black

Anyone have any recommendations for a b550m mobo? Think I'm going to make the jump to a 5800x in a bit and may as well swap mobos now.

Torn between the Aorus pro-p or the MSI mortar, heard good things about the Asrock pro4 as well though

BloodBath

Depends on whether you need or want a good sound chip and how many nvme slots you want. My advice is don't be too bothered with the sound part unless you have good headphones and in that case just buy an external dac like the creative soundblaster g6 instead.

I'd be looking for at least 2 NVME slots, some of the b550's even have 3 although those ones usually involve reducing the lane speed of the GPU if using all 3 slots.

PCIE 5.0 and DDR5 are coming at the end of the year. PCIE 6.0 is already in development and close to manufacture as well.

Squidgy Black

BloodBath wrote: »

Depends on whether you need or want a good sound chip and how many nvme slots you want. My advice is don't be too bothered with the sound part unless you have good headphones and in that case just buy an external dac like the creative soundblaster g6 instead.

I'd be looking for at least 2 NVME slots, some of the b550's even have 3 although those ones usually involve reducing the lane speed of the GPU if using all 3 slots.

PCIE 5.0 and DDR5 are coming at the end of the year. PCIE 6.0 is already in development and close to manufacture as well.

Sound chip makes no difference to me as have a fiio k3, but yeah I'm half torn between just splashing out on the 5800x and a new mobo, could probably get 200 quid for my 3600 and cheap b450, or wait until the next iteration comes out in a year or two with ddr5

wotzgoingon

I don't know about Intel but AMD will most likely wait till the first quarter of 2022 to release the new socket.

AM4 will be no more unless they name it AM4+.

BloodBath

Apple has most of the early 5nm fab production ordered due for the end of this year.

AMD probably Q1 next year alright. The next gen sockets will be using PCIE5.0 and DDR5 though. I think intel already made an announcement that theirs would be.

I'd hold out at this stage. 3600 has life in it yet unless you have a monster GPU not being utilized fully.

wotzgoingon

If they do use PCIe 5.0, PCIe 4.0 must be the shortest running PCIe socket ever.

I never owned a PCIe 3.0 board. I was on an old x58 with a 2.0 socket for years and it was enough to run modern cards. I'm not sure about current gen but I ran a 5700 XT on the 2.0 and had no limitations.

At least now Intel finally have more than 16 lanes available to the CPU. AMD have been doing that for a while before Intel decided to follow suit.

Squidgy Black

BloodBath wrote: »

Apple has most of the early 5nm fab production ordered due for the end of this year.

AMD probably Q1 next year alright. The next gen sockets will be using PCIE5.0 and DDR5 though. I think intel already made an announcement that theirs would be.

I'd hold out at this stage. 3600 has life in it yet unless you have a monster GPU not being utilized fully.

Have a 3080 but only playing at 3440x1440 so it's far from a massive bottleneck, more just itchy fingers thinking about making the jump.

I think I've talked myself down off the ledge though. For now......

BloodBath

wotzgoingon wrote: »

If they do use PCIe 5.0, PCIe 4.0 must be the shortest running PCIe socket ever.

I never owned a PCIe 3.0 board. I was on an old x58 with a 2.0 socket for years and it was enough to run modern cards. I'm not sure about current gen but I ran a 5700 XT on the 2.0 and had no limitations.

At least now Intel finally have more than 16 lanes available to the CPU. AMD have been doing that for a while before Intel decided to follow suit.

It's SSD's pushing it forward more than gpu's now, especially on the server side. GPU's still haven't saturated PCIE 3.0 yet.

Who want's Sata SSD's or HDD's at this point when bigish NVME's are relatively cheap.