AMD Zen Discussion Thread

Mr Crispy

^Speaking of the future, another point I keep reminding myself of, is that AM4 motherboards should be good for the next couple of versions of Zen chips as well. So there'll hopefully be a worthwhile future upgrade path for those of us who adopt now.

Gehad_JoyRider

Darch Nemesis wrote: »

^Speaking of the future, another point I keep reminding myself of, is that AM4 motherboards should be good for the next couple of versions of Zen chips as well. So there'll hopefully be a worthwhile future upgrade path for those of us who adopt now.

Yep im just trying to justfy spending so much on a motherboard. Want to get the msi titanium.

Inviere

Lukker- wrote: »

Stump for an i7 or go Ryzen. I'm nearly certain that this is the last gen where i5's wil be 4c/4t.

Ryzen doesn't seem to be doing well at 1080/60 though, which is precisely where I need the performance to be. I understand optimisations are en route, but won't they just be for current/modern games? Say I want to fire up Bioshock or the likes (one or two generation old games), am I in for a sub par experience (versus Intel) if I go Ryzen?

god's toy

Darch Nemesis wrote: »

^Speaking of the future, another point I keep reminding myself of, is that AM4 motherboards should be good for the next couple of versions of Zen chips as well. So there'll hopefully be a worthwhile future upgrade path for those of us who adopt now.

It's primarily one of the reasons why I'm jumping to AMD again, I like the fact that in one, two or even three years time I can just buy the latest generation Ryzen am4 processor and off I go! Without having to buy a new motherboard and/or RAM unlike most Intel chips.
But if Intel is whipping ass by that time then all good too I'll just mosey on back... Kinda like AMD vs Nvidia graphics cards over the last few years.

god's toy

Inviere wrote: »

Ryzen doesn't seem to be doing well at 1080/60 though, which is precisely where I need the performance to be. I understand optimisations are en route, but won't they just be for current/modern games? Say I want to fire up Bioshock or the likes (one or two generation old games), am I in for a sub par experience (versus Intel) if I go Ryzen?

I'll tell you what, I can bench for you? I have BioShock 1 2 and 3 , I will tests each of them separately and run the games at 1080p for you if you want. As soon as I get my (probably R5 1600X) CPU. 70 plus games on Steam so can test loads if you like...
I'm buying as soon as they are available (not waiting on reviews) and have mobo and ram already on (pre) order.

Inviere

god's toy wrote: »

I'll tell you what, I can bench for you? I have BioShock 1 2 and 3 , I will tests each of them separately and run the games at 1080p for you if you want. As soon as I get my (probably R5 1600X) CPU. 70 plus games on Steam so can test loads if you like...
I'm buying as soon as they are available (not waiting on reviews) and have mobo and ram already on (pre) order.

By all means! Many thanks

BloodBath

Darch Nemesis wrote: »

^Speaking of the future, another point I keep reminding myself of, is that AM4 motherboards should be good for the next couple of versions of Zen chips as well. So there'll hopefully be a worthwhile future upgrade path for those of us who adopt now.

Yeah that is a big plus. I was going to go for the 1700 but I'll wait for 1600/1600x reviews. The 1600 is only going to be around €250 which is sick value.

At least with that you might have some value upgrading to a Zen Gen 3 octo down the line.

I have a feeling AMD did something with the design to cap the clock speeds around 4Ghz max so they could offer updates over 3 years. Gen2 will probably go to around 4.3-4.4Ghz and Gen 3 to around 4.6-4.7Ghz. I can't see these updated Zens offering anything other than clock speed improvements.

Icyseanfitz

yeah a nice way to do it would be to buy a lower end ryzen like the 6 core or 4 core, get a really nice motherboard and then upgrade to an 8 core when revision 2 or 3 comes out with (hopefully) better clock speeds/overclocking

beno619

BloodBath wrote: »

I have a feeling AMD did something with the design to cap the clock speeds around 4Ghz max so they could offer updates over 3 years. Gen2 will probably go to around 4.3-4.4Ghz and Gen 3 to around 4.6-4.7Ghz. I can't see these updated Zens offering anything other than clock speed improvements.

PCPer speculated that its the 14nm process chosen, a low power one optimised for mobile.

Its also a new arc and node. They seemed to be amazed AMD were hitting 4.1 - 4.2Ghz at the first attempt.

Venom

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

yeah a nice way to do it would be to buy a lower end ryzen like the 6 core or 4 core, get a really nice motherboard and then upgrade to an 8 core when revision 2 or 3 comes out with (hopefully) better clock speeds/overclocking

That's been pretty much my plan for my next upgrade. I'm not expecting the R5's to clock higher or overclock better than the R7's and hope by the time the mid range CPUs hit the market, the bios, ram and temp issues have been ironed out.

grindle

Inviere wrote: »

Ryzen doesn't seem to be doing well at 1080/60 though...am I in for a sub par experience (versus Intel) if I go Ryzen?

It does very well at 1080/60. The benchmarks it's falling behind in at 1080p are usually 100hz+. Watch Dogs 2 had the worst benches I saw and that was around 70fps.

Bioshock Infinite pulls between 100-200fps with a 1080 depending on high or low settings.

Mr Crispy

Apparently Valve have added Ryzen optimisation to Dota 2. I don't play it myself, but it will be interesting to hear what (if any) difference it makes.

god's toy

Darch Nemesis wrote: »

Apparently Valve have added Ryzen optimisation to Dota 2. I don't play it myself, but it will be interesting to hear what (if any) difference it makes.

Nice, the ball starts rolling. and it was done so quick, makes it bode well for others to do the same

god's toy

Oh and here's something for ya: Discussion from the 10th October 2008 on beyond3d forum.

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/why-nehalem-for-games-is-not-better-than-yorkfield.44382/


The brand 'new' i7 chip platform from intel had SMT/HT problems and games were slower on it, and the Windows XP scheduler didn't like it all that much.

Point? We have been here before.

Gehad_JoyRider

Looking at my choice in cpu I was thinking the 1700x would be the ideal choice but now im thinking the 1600x might be the ideal place to be?

Whats every ones opinion?

Streaming and gaming.

Inviere

Gehad_JoyRider wrote: »

Looking at my choice in cpu I was thinking the 1700x would be the ideal choice but now im thinking the 1600x might be the ideal place to be?

Whats every ones opinion?

Streaming and gaming.

I would lean towards the 1600x myself, seems to be the sweet spot for gaming on paper anyway

Venom

god's toy wrote: »

Oh and here's something for ya: Discussion from the 10th October 2008 on beyond3d forum.

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/why-nehalem-for-games-is-not-better-than-yorkfield.44382/


The brand 'new' i7 chip platform from intel had SMT/HT problems and games were slower on it, and the Windows XP scheduler didn't like it all that much.

Point? We have been here before.

How much of the desktop market that is Microsoft's bread and butter did Intel have at that point tho? I'm concerned Microsoft will not make the Ryzen issues a priority or will strike a deal with Intel just like they did with the whole Netflix at 4k on Windows 10 requires a Kabylake i7 bollocks.

god's toy

Venom wrote: »

How much of the desktop market that is Microsoft's bread and butter did Intel have at that point tho? I'm concerned Microsoft will not make the Ryzen issues a priority or will strike a deal with Intel just like they did with the whole Netflix at 4k on Windows 10 requires a Kabylake i7 bollocks.

Didnt they already started talks with microsoft regarding this? (from what I've read) and a patch was/is on the works... but I would guess they won't be jumping up to get it done asap tho.

However they would have to be seen to address these​ issues at least as windows 10 has a lot of rep hanging on it and it wouldn't look good for Microsoft to be seen to be favouring Intel.
Kinda bugs me that the Netflix went the way they did and I would be surprised if that is allowed to stand long term.

I don't think we will have Ryzen/Windows 10/ DirectX 12 / Vulkan, even games themselves will be running at its full potential this time around...
However version 2 and version 3 will be a lot closer to the mark of fulfilling the AMD's promise and not forgetting forcing Intel to get the finger out and start to innovate instead of relying on a 10-year design to get them by.

god's toy

Gehad_JoyRider wrote: »

Looking at my choice in cpu I was thinking the 1700x would be the ideal choice but now im thinking the 1600x might be the ideal place to be?

Whats every ones opinion?

Streaming and gaming.

1600x for me. Don't think games/programs will be utilising more than 4 to 6 core's in the next year at least.
If we start to see this change I will step up to accordingly. ...Without having to buy a new motherboard or RAM.

K.O.Kiki

Wraith Spire seems like a good deal.

AlmightyCushion

Venom wrote: »

How much of the desktop market that is Microsoft's bread and butter did Intel have at that point tho? I'm concerned Microsoft will not make the Ryzen issues a priority or will strike a deal with Intel just like they did with the whole Netflix at 4k on Windows 10 requires a Kabylake i7 bollocks.

This is some proper conspiracy nonsense right here. Netflix 4K requires Kabylake because it needs a type of hardware DRM that isn't available on earlier CPUs. It's nothing to do with some Microsoft/Intel deal. Why would Microsoft strike a deal with Intel over this Ryzen issue? Why does it benefit Microsoft to do a deal with Intel hobble Ryzen like that?

god's toy

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Wraith Spire seems like a good deal.

Just be aware that it's for the 65w cpu so if your using on the 95w be mindful of overclocking on it.

I like the look of the Raith Max but I'm hoping my freezer pro am3 cooler will work on the x370 motherboard, won't know till I get the hardware.

BloodBath

Good deal on Ryzen 7 1700 from Amazon.de atm. €345.99 for the boxed version with €8.25 delivery. Very tempted to pull the trigger on this.

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B06WP5YCX6?smid=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&linkCode=df0&creative=22502&creativeASIN=B06WP5YCX6&childASIN=B06WP5YCX6&tag=geizhals1-21

-edit- Forgot to mention price was got using geizhals.de for a discount.

Venom

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

This is some proper conspiracy nonsense right here. Netflix 4K requires Kabylake because it needs a type of hardware DRM that isn't available on earlier CPUs. It's nothing to do with some Microsoft/Intel deal. Why would Microsoft strike a deal with Intel over this Ryzen issue? Why does it benefit Microsoft to do a deal with Intel hobble Ryzen like that?

Then why is it only Kabylake i7's that will work and not i5's and i3's?

Also, why does Netflix need DRM of any sort when you already need to have an active subscription aka the ultimate DRM, to access their service?

K.O.Kiki

Venom wrote: »

Then why is it only Kabylake i7's that will work and not i5's and i3's?

Also, why does Netflix need DRM of any sort when you already need to have an active subscription aka the ultimate DRM, to access their service?

DRM is because the content holders (Hollywood) want it, and Netflix still relies on them for a lot of content.

AlmightyCushion

Venom wrote: »

Then why is it only Kabylake i7's that will work and not i5's and i3's?

Also, why does Netflix need DRM of any sort when you already need to have an active subscription aka the ultimate DRM, to access their service?

Are you sure about that? Last I checked it worked on non i7 Kaby Lake CPUs. A quick google doesn't mention that it's limited to the i7 either.

Paying to access the service doesn't stop you from taking the content you are streaming and then providing it to people who haven't paid for access to the service. This is what the DRM is meant to prevent. It's the same reason there is DRM built into games and Blu-ray players even though you have to pay for the games/blu-ray discs. Of course, as we all know, people still manage to get around the DRM but it still doesn't stop the content providers requiring it. Regardless, it's not there because Microsoft have some deal with Intel.

Venom

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Are you sure about that? Last I checked it worked on non i7 Kaby Lake CPUs. A quick google doesn't mention that it's limited to the i7 either.

Paying to access the service doesn't stop you from taking the content you are streaming and then providing it to people who haven't paid for access to the service. This is what the DRM is meant to prevent. It's the same reason there is DRM built into games and Blu-ray players even though you have to pay for the games/blu-ray discs. Of course, as we all know, people still manage to get around the DRM but it still doesn't stop the content providers requiring it. Regardless, it's not there because Microsoft have some deal with Intel.

I was sure I read somewhere it was only the i7 but could be wrong and its the entire kabylake series.

Mr Crispy

Some stores have apparently sent out Ryzen 5 CPUs to customers already. Pics have appeared on Reddit, so we should get some good info re overclocking etc before the official reviews.

god's toy

Darch Nemesis wrote: »

Some stores have apparently sent out Ryzen 5 CPUs to customers already. Pics have appeared on Reddit, so we should get some good info re overclocking etc before the official reviews.

Darn it, I cant even get a preorder in anywhere! I want now now now!

Gehad_JoyRider

BloodBath wrote: »

Good deal on Ryzen 7 1700 from Amazon.de atm. €345.99 for the boxed version with €8.25 delivery. Very tempted to pull the trigger on this.

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B06WP5YCX6?smid=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&linkCode=df0&creative=22502&creativeASIN=B06WP5YCX6&childASIN=B06WP5YCX6&tag=geizhals1-21

-edit- Forgot to mention price was got using geizhals.de for a discount.

Wait till the british pm pulls the trigger om brexit and watch the poind fall around her ankles ðŸ˜