AMD Zen Discussion Thread

Inviere

smacl wrote: »

3700X seems like a beast for the (leaked) price. 5ghz, 12 core, 24 thread. Would probably be my CPU of choice. Had been dithering on a new 2700x build but may build based on a cheaper Ryzen 1700 with a view to upgrading later in the year.

Indeed, the 3700X seems a monster if the specs are corrdct. For gaming though, a 12 core hyperthreaded cpu seems a bit of a waste for me

Venom

Inviere wrote: »

Indeed, the 3700X seems a monster if the specs are corrdct. For gaming though, a 12 core hyperthreaded cpu seems a bit of a waste for me

Realistically, 99% of games don't even make full use of a 4 core CPU nevermind an 8, 12 or 16 core

Inviere

Venom wrote: »

Realistically, 99% of games don't even make full use of a 4 core CPU nevermind an 8, 12 or 16 core

I think current/modern AAA games are beginning to move beyond 4 core no? Things like Battlefield V are making 6600k's etc start to sweat...

smacl

Inviere wrote: »

Indeed, the 3700X seems a monster if the specs are corrdct. For gaming though, a 12 core hyperthreaded cpu seems a bit of a waste for me

I'm primarily using it for development and a certain amount of rendering so core count is huge for me. I was running a job yesterday (training an AI system) and the system took 13 hours to come back to me from starting the task with 8 cores flat out and 23GB of RAM in use.

Inviere

sugarman wrote: »

Same reason my 2500K isn't up to it anymore. Was going going to upgrade it to the 3770K for 8 threads but the used prices are still as much as the proposed 3300X prices, so just doesn't make sense on the obsolete platform.

My son has a 6600k mitx build and I'm in that same situation. I'd like to drop a 6700k in there for another year or two, but the used prices just don't make sense.

smacl

sugarman wrote: »

Im set on the 3600X now, although the 3700X is tempting

Also very tempted by the 3700X but it is worth noting that it is slower on single threaded than the 3600X (i.e. 4.3ghz versus 5.0ghz or 14%). You're paying the extra money for the extra cores (16 versus 12) which means it will be faster on things like rendering, transcoding, compiling code and other thread efficient CPU intensive stuff but I'd actually expect it to be slightly slower on games. I reckon the 3600x is likely to be a better price/performance combo.

Venom

smacl wrote: »

Also very tempted by the 3700X but it is worth noting that it is slower on single threaded than the 3600X (i.e. 4.3ghz versus 5.0ghz or 14%). You're paying the extra money for the extra cores (16 versus 12) which means it will be faster on things like rendering, transcoding, compiling code and other thread efficient CPU intensive stuff but I'd actually expect it to be slightly slower on games. I reckon the 3600x is likely to be a better price/performance combo.

Going by the leaked specs that have popped up so far, the 3700X looks like its 2ghz faster and offers better gaming performance than the 3600X.



Ryzen 5 3600X 8 / 16 - 4.0 / 4.8GHz 95W $258 $229
Ryzen 7 3700X 12 / 24 - 4.2 / 5.0GHz 105W $370 $329

Inviere

sugarman wrote: »

Its crazy just how well they hold their value. You'd still get a decent return on a 6600K build now if you were to sell it on and start fresh with a Zen 2.

Im in 2 minds to sell, I done a complete rebuilt in 2016 and its fine bar the CPU. I could prob get €400-450, but Im thinking of just transplanting it into a HTPC case and sticking it under the tele for media and emulation then at a later stage I can still upgrade it to a 3770k when they arent silly money.

Damn you, that's an idea...sell it and go Ryzen That'd be x2 Ryzen builds for me this year.

6600K never oc'd
Asus Z170i Pro Gaming
Hyper X FURY DDR4 16GB
Kraken X31 AIO Cooler

Any idea's what would be a reasonable asking price for the above?

smacl

Venom wrote: »

Going by the leaked specs that have popped up so far, the 3700X looks like its 2ghz faster and offers better gaming performance than the 3600X.



Ryzen 5 3600X 8 / 16 - 4.0 / 4.8GHz 95W $258 $229
Ryzen 7 3700X 12 / 24 - 4.2 / 5.0GHz 105W $370 $329

My bad, I was looking at 3700X vs 3800X, from techradar, though looking again they may have boost and base the wrong way around on the 3700X entry below



It's actually the 3700X I have my eye on.

TitianGerm

Inviere wrote: »

Damn you, that's an idea...sell it and go Ryzen That'd be x2 Ryzen builds for me this year.

6600K never oc'd
Asus Z170i Pro Gaming
Hyper X FURY DDR4 16GB
Kraken X31 AIO Cooler

Any idea's what would be a reasonable asking price for the above?

Could you not just keep the cooler and ram and sell the CPU and MOBO?

Inviere

TitianGerm wrote: »

Could you not just keep the cooler and ram and sell the CPU and MOBO?

Does Ryzen not need fast ram? Can't remember the exact speeds of the Hyper X stuff, but I think it's only 2400 or so. Could possibly keep the cooler, would need an AM4 bracket though.

Cuddlesworth

Inviere wrote: »

Does Ryzen not need fast ram? Can't remember the exact speeds of the Hyper X stuff, but I think it's only 2400 or so. Could possibly keep the cooler, would need an AM4 bracket though.

These processors are very different to gen 1 in terms of the way they access ram. Fast ram might not make the same impact.

Inviere

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

These processors are very different to gen 1 in terms of the way they access ram. Fast ram might not make the same impact.

Oh really? So the existing ram would/might be ok?

Venom

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

These processors are very different to gen 1 in terms of the way they access ram. Fast ram might not make the same impact.

Ryzen's do make use of faster ram way more than an Intel system and 3000-3200mhz is the current sweet spot for Ryzen+ systems. Ryzen+ just offered more options over the first gen CPU's, as to what make and speed of ram could be used with the 2xxx CPU's. It would be a very odd change for AMD to alter how ram works with Ryzen 2 imho.

TerrorFirmer

Inviere wrote: »

My son has a 6600k mitx build and I'm in that same situation. I'd like to drop a 6700k in there for another year or two, but the used prices just don't make sense.

Keep an eye on CEX. At one point they were selling i7-6700 for 160.

I agree with some other opinions, just sell up the whole rig now and build new.

Even a Ryzen 1600 for €140 now is a way better CPU for games generally speaking due to the core/thread count.

Ryzen 1600 + A320M is what, €180? You'd get back a lot of that, if not all depending on the mobo, for a 6600K + board.

Inviere

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Keep an eye on CEX. At one point they were selling i7-6700 for 160.

I agree with some other opinions, just sell up the whole rig now and build new.

Even a Ryzen 1600 for €140 now is a way better CPU for games generally speaking due to the core/thread count.

Ryzen 1600 + A320M is what, €180? You'd get back a lot of that, if not all depending on the mobo, for a 6600K + board.

Damn, makes unfortunate sense (my wallet just groaned, but as you say, the bulk of the cost is recoupable). I was thinking a 2600 & B450, it has to be mitx though, because the case is a Core V1. Would a 1600 really go head to head with a 6600k yeah?

Xenoronin

Benchmark comparison between the two: https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2362?vs=2267

TerrorFirmer

They'd be similar in a lot of games, 6600K would have the edge in some, particularly older games, but the extra cores/threads of the 1600 make a major difference in some of the very latest games where four cores/four threads doesn't quite cut it. Over the next few years the 6600K will fall very behind in a way the 1600 won't for this reason.

You also have to consider minimum frames. If you compared BFV online with a 1600 v 6600K, the 6600K would possibly have a similar or higher avg framerate, but lower minimums due to lack of cores/threads, same for something like the newest Assassins Creed. The Ryzen wouldn't fall below 60fps, but the 6600K would.

2nd hand 6700K though is still faster.

Cuddlesworth

Venom wrote: »

Ryzen's do make use of faster ram way more than an Intel system and 3000-3200mhz is the current sweet spot for Ryzen+ systems. Ryzen+ just offered more options over the first gen CPU's, as to what make and speed of ram could be used with the 2xxx CPU's. It would be a very odd change for AMD to alter how ram works with Ryzen 2 imho.

They have separated out the IO into its own 14nm die. With the older design, the memory controller was integrated into the CPU's and the memory speed had a direct relationship to the infinity fabric which bound the CCX cores together. Its a huge design change and until I see otherwise its a question mark if memory speed will make any real difference. As I don't see why the infinity fabric would have to have a 1 to 1 relationship with the memory speed now.

Subcomandante Marcos

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

They have separated out the IO into its own 14nm die. With the older design, the memory controller was integrated into the CPU's and the memory speed had a direct relationship to the infinity fabric which bound the CCX cores together. Its a huge design change and until I see otherwise its a question mark if memory speed will make any real difference. As I don't see why the infinity fabric would have to have a 1 to 1 relationship with the memory speed now.

It would be fantastic if memory wasn't an issue anymore thanks to the chiplet design as say 2400mhz ram is significantly cheaper than 3000 or 3200mhz.
So potentially you could buy a cheaper kit of good 2133mhz ram, over clock it a little and still have a beast of a machine, bringing down prices even more.

Inviere

Would I be mad buying a 2600x now this close to Zen 2?

Subcomandante Marcos

Inviere wrote: »

Would I be mad buying a 2600x now this close to Zen 2?

I don't think so, if you want a machine now, buy now. Just get the best value for money and a good motherboard and you can always upgrade in a year or two.

BloodBath

Yah might as well go for it if you want to upgrade now. You can get a higher core zen 3 model down the line.

That's the great thing about Ryzen. Upgrade able on the same platform for a few years through 4-5 revisions.

K.O.Kiki

Inviere wrote: »

Would I be mad buying a 2600x now this close to Zen 2?

Yes.

Buy a 2600 non-X instead.

WolfSpinach

I'm looking at building a workstation for 3D. Would it make sense to put in a 1700 for the time being, overclock it and replace with a Zen better chip down the road? I've seen some stuff about potential RAM incompatibility but that should be more mono related, right?

Inviere

BloodBath wrote: »

Yah might as well go for it if you want to upgrade now. You can get a higher core zen 3 model down the line.

That's the thing, I can wait like, it's not urgent that I buy now.

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Yes.

Buy a 2600 non-X instead.

I've heard this, that the non X can reach X specs with a minor bit or OC'ing. I don't really want to OC though, it's for an MITX build, with a small enough 130mm AIO handling cooling. Do these run hot at all? The AIO had no issues with a 6600k at full pelt, so I'm hoping a 2600/x won't push it much more than that?

wotzgoingon

AdoredTv has a new video up. Interesting enough if you are into that type of thing. Not much desktop stuff mostly servers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmhug8GEDUU

K.O.Kiki

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/radeon-vii-50th-anniversary-special-edition-rx-590-aorus-x470

Looks tacky-but-kinda-cool

GHOST MGG

Im a bit dissapointed that the new anniversary version of the 2700x only has a laser imprinted signature of lisa su and noimproved clock speeds

Subcomandante Marcos

GHOST MGG wrote: »

Im a bit dissapointed that the new anniversary version of the 2700x only has a laser imprinted signature of lisa su and noimproved clock speeds

Why would the improve clock speeds on something that's about to be replaced in a few months anyway?

They will be in tiny numbers and only weirdo Uber fanboys will buy them.

Zen 2 will make them redundant before the summer is out.