AMD Zen Discussion Thread

Simi

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Open secret now.

Ryzen 1600 stepping AF (YD1600BBAFBOX instead of old YD1600BBAEBOX / YD1600BBAEMPK) is basically a 2600.

So the 1600 AF is the new value king I guess? I can see why they kept 1600 instead of a 2000 or a 3000 series name.
It's a lot clearer for consumers.

If you want something cheaper than the 3600 get the 2600 & if you want something even cheaper than that, get the 1600. The fact that the 1600 now overclocks to the same level as the 2600 is irrelevant to most people.

.G.

Daily BSOD's and game crashes on my sons 3600 PC, driving me demented. All drivers up to date, newest BIOS from MSI flashed although thats not saying much given the issues with they've had, RAM passing several runs on memtest at its rated speeds and lower.


I'll have to start digging through dump files to find out whats going on which is never fun:rolleyes::(

KilOit

.G. wrote: »

Daily BSOD's and game crashes on my sons 3600 PC, driving me demented. All drivers up to date, newest BIOS from MSI flashed although thats not saying much given the issues with they've had, RAM passing several runs on memtest at its rated speeds and lower.


I'll have to start digging through dump files to find out whats going on which is never fun:rolleyes::(

Could be a system error. Spare hard drive around to install fresh windows on?

smacl

.G. wrote: »

Daily BSOD's and game crashes on my sons 3600 PC, driving me demented. All drivers up to date, newest BIOS from MSI flashed although thats not saying much given the issues with they've had, RAM passing several runs on memtest at its rated speeds and lower.


I'll have to start digging through dump files to find out whats going on which is never fun:rolleyes::(

Just a guess, but could be a poor connection to RAM or another component being broken as the system heats up and expands / moves slightly. I'd try re-seating the RAM and all connectors.

.G.

KilOit wrote: »

Could be a system error. Spare hard drive around to install fresh windows on?

It was a complete new system, bar the SSD funnily enough but I did clean windows install on it. Was thinking of trying that again. I have got a spare smaller SSD that would fit windows on it. A clean install on the new drive might solve the ills but then I'll never know if ti was the drive or the clean install that solved it:D

smacl wrote: »

Just a guess, but could be a poor connection to RAM or another component being broken as the system heats up and expands / moves slightly. I'd try re-seating the RAM and all connectors.

Yeah I tried all this, everything is in right. I put an AIO in it the other day so checked it all then.

Outkast_IRE

.G. wrote: »

Daily BSOD's and game crashes on my sons 3600 PC, driving me demented. All drivers up to date, newest BIOS from MSI flashed although thats not saying much given the issues with they've had, RAM passing several runs on memtest at its rated speeds and lower.


I'll have to start digging through dump files to find out whats going on which is never fun:rolleyes::(

If you are getting BSOD then it should be telling you an error ? Is it the same error message each time or is it varying ?

.G.

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

If you are getting BSOD then it should be telling you an error ? Is it the same error message each time or is it varying ?

There's been quite a few different ones but recently it seems to be settling mainly on bad pool caller.

Outkast_IRE

.G. wrote: »

There's been quite a few different ones but recently it seems to be settling mainly on bad pool caller.

Like you have probably sussed by now, it's an error usually linked to overclocking or bad drivers.

What I have come across on some of the boards that have required bios updates is that there are incorrect settings for the CPU and ram in the bios , maybe check all the memory and CPU setting are what you would expect for stock.

I would probably rebuild the rig and get a clean OS install and work from there.

Are you also happy your psu is adequate just on the outside chance it's near its limit and causing some unusual issues.

.G.

Yeah seen that its bad drivers or overclocking. Everything is at stock, the RAM is rated at 3200mhz on its packaging and was purchased as such but when you go into BIOS its underclocked by default and you have to select the XMP profile to get it to its rated speeds. I've tried it at default BIOS settings and its rated speed and it still occurs. CPU is not overclocked bar the likes of PBO but I've tried it with that disabled too. PSU is new unit sent to us as a warranty replacement while he still had his Intel system a few months back and if I remember correctly is a 650w GOLD so should be no problems there either, could be 550w but should still be fine for a 3600 with a GTX1080.

I haven't had a chance to dig in the dump files yet so need to do that but most likely I'll be trying a full wipe and hope for the best. When I do a wipe I generally only wipe the C drive with windows on it and keep whatever is on the other drives intact, not sure if that might play a roll.

I haven't actually had a poke around in the BIOS so must check out those settings, I just left everything as default except the RAM

Thanks for the suggestions folks.

Cuddlesworth

Check the temps under load.

.G.

It used to get into the 70-80s with the stock cooler, haven't checked it under load with the AIO but it's idling at least 15c lower. Something else to look at!

wotzgoingon

Anyone else watch the AMD livestream keynote? If you didn't you didn't miss much as it was all stuff I already knew from leaks. I thought they would show the 4000 desktop processors but only the 4000 series mobile chips which are pretty decent chips tbh.

They also showed the Threadripper 3990X 64 core chip but knew about that before.

AlmightyCushion

wotzgoingon wrote: »

Anyone else watch the AMD livestream keynote? If you didn't you didn't miss much as it was all stuff I already knew from leaks. I thought they would show the 4000 desktop processors but only the 4000 series mobile chips which are pretty decent chips tbh.

They also showed the Threadripper 3990X 64 core chip but knew about that before.

Pretty decent is an understatement. They look damn impressive. Big upgrade over the 3000 series.

K.O.Kiki

Starts at around 10:00

z0oT

:pac:

cherryghost

The new mobile processors are amazing. Real breath of fresh air into the mobile CPU market, Intel doesnt look to have any response to the core/thread count AMD is offering even on their ULV CPUs. The mid/high-end ULV processors should be good enough for high end gaming tbh, opening a budget thin-and-light laptop solution for the masses. Some laptops at CES 2020 already show this.

AlmightyCushion

cherryghost wrote: »

The new mobile processors are amazing. Real breath of fresh air into the mobile CPU market, Intel doesnt look to have any response to the core/thread count AMD is offering even on their ULV CPUs. The mid/high-end ULV processors should be good enough for high end gaming tbh, opening a budget thin-and-light laptop solution for the masses. Some laptops at CES 2020 already show this.

2 or 3 years ago, a high end ULV processor was a dual core. Now it's an 8 core. That is ridiculous improvement in such a short period of time. That's not even looking at the GPU improvements as I haven't seen much about them. AMD are really knocking it out of the park with Zen. Hopefully, they start doing the same to nVidia in the GPU department.

K.O.Kiki

smacl

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUeo7kUzn_8

Starts at around 10:00

I'm getting 'Video is private'

Inviere

cherryghost wrote: »

The new mobile processors are amazing. Real breath of fresh air into the mobile CPU market, Intel doesnt look to have any response to the core/thread count AMD is offering even on their ULV CPUs. The mid/high-end ULV processors should be good enough for high end gaming tbh, opening a budget thin-and-light laptop solution for the masses. Some laptops at CES 2020 already show this.

Am I remembering right that 4k series mobile Ryzen's are Gen 2? Whereas 4k series desktop chips will be Gen 3?

AlmightyCushion

Inviere wrote: »

Am I remembering right that 4k series mobile Ryzen's are Gen 2? Whereas 4k series desktop chips will be Gen 3?

Yes. In mobile processors the 4000 series is the equivalent of the 3000 series in the desktop.

Samuel T. Cogley

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Yes. In mobile processors the 4000 series is the equivalent of the 3000 series in the desktop.

There will be 4000 series desktop APUs based on Zen2 also.

wotzgoingon

B550 pushed out to 3rd quarter this year supposedly. Not fact but that's what Gamers Nexus said unofficially.

That's mental if true. It can't be right, sure that means the 4000 desktop series will be out when it's released.

Anima

I'm thinking of upgrading in the next couple of weeks. What AMD board should I be looking at? Probably anything older than x570 is a waste of time? Will x570 work with the newer 4th gen chips even?

H3llR4iser

Anima wrote: »

I'm thinking of upgrading in the next couple of weeks. What AMD board should I be looking at? Probably anything older than x570 is a waste of time? Will x570 work with the newer 4th gen chips even?

x570 will certainly work with the 4th gen chips; Heck, people have been updating old B350 and X370 to work with 3rd gen, there's no reason the new chipset, belonging to a family that's not complete yet (the B550 still isn't out) won't work.



As for the choice, logic would suggest that if you're building from scratch you should get as up-to-date parts as you can, so yep, no point getting anything older than an X570. On the other hand, the boards are epxensive right now and a lot of people swear by the B450 or X470 chipsets, with good results (mostly). So it really depends - if you're likely to want to upgrade CPU soonish, go for an X570. If you usually build a PC, let it live its 4/5 years cycle and then change, it would make sense to save a few quids by going B450 and getting a faster CPU or a better GPU.

K.O.Kiki

The real reason to go for an X570 board over B450 is that with X570, the OEMs really stepped up the quality of their VRM designs.
So for anything up to 8 cores, B450 is fine (although obviously, X570 + 8 core will equal better VRM thermals).
N.B. that there are a few stinkers in low-end X570 still.

If it's just gaming though, an MSI B450 Mortar MAX / Tomahawk MAX board with Ryzen 3600/3700X is a no-brainer.

Anima

Good stuff, that's kind of what I was thinking. Probably going for a 3700x with a B450 MAX and a 2070s. I assumed I needed x570 for a 3700x. I guess if I can find a good (cheap) x570 board I will go for it.

It's a significant jump in price to go from 3600/B450 to 3700x/x570. It's hard to justify it really if I'm mostly gaming but I've been caught out last time I upgraded by going for a 4/4t CPU (i5-6600). Really feeling it in games now, should have went with a better CPU at the time and I'd have been good for another 1-2 years.

H3llR4iser

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

The real reason to go for an X570 board over B450 is that with X570, the OEMs really stepped up the quality of their VRM designs.
So for anything up to 8 cores, B450 is fine (although obviously, X570 + 8 core will equal better VRM thermals).
N.B. that there are a few stinkers in low-end X570 still.

If it's just gaming though, an MSI B450 Mortar MAX / Tomahawk MAX board with Ryzen 3600/3700X is a no-brainer.

First of all - Kiki, I'm just using your post as a "stepping stone" for the subject, it's in no way directed at you and I DO understand that what you're saying is that the general quality of X570 board varies a LOT.



This VRM scaremongering, mostly resulting from that infamous Hardware Unboxed video, is the new "that PSU will catch fire!" bandwagon online thing or the "you need moar WATTS!" crowd. An user that doesn't do extreme overclocking and doesn't run small FFT stress tests 24/7/365 but just uses his/her PC will never realize VRM thermals are a thing, even with a 3900X or 3950X on the board.


It's important to remind everyone that stress testing is useful to assert the stability of a system - but it's in NO WAY indicative of day-to-day operations. It's like testing a family car on its ability to always drive at its maximum speed.

K.O.Kiki

H3llR4iser wrote: »

First of all - Kiki, I'm just using your post as a "stepping stone" for the subject, it's in no way directed at you and I DO understand that what you're saying is that the general quality of X570 board varies a LOT.



This VRM scaremongering, mostly resulting from that infamous Hardware Unboxed video, is the new "that PSU will catch fire!" bandwagon online thing or the "you need moar WATTS!" crowd. An user that doesn't do extreme overclocking and doesn't run small FFT stress tests 24/7/365 but just uses his/her PC will never realize VRM thermals are a thing, even with a 3900X or 3950X on the board.


It's important to remind everyone that stress testing is useful to assert the stability of a system - but it's in NO WAY indicative of day-to-day operations. It's like testing a family car on its ability to always drive at its maximum speed.

For the last time: 6-8 core CPUs at stock are unaffected. Once you start overclocking (introducing more voltage) or upping the core count (more power draw) you should not accept worse VRM designs, as more heat = bad, always.

In addition, better (more efficient) VRM design leads to lower power consumption. Which is good.

Anyone buying a 3900X or above is either using it for proper work also, or an idiot who could've saved themselves hundreds.
So to think they won't be taxing it is incorrect.

Tests:
der8auer
KitGuru - X570 VRM Temperature Analysis deep dive
HardwareInfo (NL)
Techspot - 3900X on good & bad B450 boards

Bottom line though:
When one motherboard's VRM runs at 50-55, and the other runs ABOVE 105 - yeah no shít I'm not recommending the latter.

also regarding your analogy: it's not about maximum speed. It's about 0-40, 0-60, 0-100 times, and noise/stability at motorway speeds.

z0oT

Actually, temperature numbers like 105C on the VRMs is probably just fine too.

Just one example I found quick - Take the ASUS X570-Pro for instance:
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/asus-prime-x570-pro/4.html

The VRMs have a 125C max rated temperature. See the datasheet of the ICs in question below. Page 3, Absolute Max Ratings - Max ambient of 125C.
https://www.vishay.com/docs/76784/sic634.pdf

I agree lower is certainly better, but VRM temperatures like 105C should be just fine from a long term reliability point of view - it's still well within what the manafacturer says is okay. (At least in the above example, I suspect most of the ICs used have similiar temperature ratings)