AMD Zen Discussion Thread

MidlanderMan

GHOST MGG

Hyzepher wrote: »

Apparently most B550 and X570 boards have had Ryzen 5000 support built into their Bios for a while now and should work out of the box

Sorry but over the last week i have built two new systems for people and both boards needed bios flashbacks to the new agesa bios which i believe was 1.1.0.0 agesa rev..one board was the x570 tomahawk and the other a asus x570 pro,both of these systems are ready to go and are just waiting on the new chips.

Overheal

I'm tempted to wait for Black Friday or Cyber Monday.

I must be pretty stupid

.G.

JoyPad wrote: »

Does anyone know when the sale of the new AMD CPUs is supposed to start?
I know Nov 5th, but not the time, and I don't see it on scan or overclockers.

Overclockers said 5pm but I'd be watching all day.

.G.

Overheal wrote: »

I'm tempted to wait for Black Friday or Cyber Monday.

I must be pretty stupid

Would be the thing to do if there was likely to be any stock but given apparent demand there probably won't be.

wotzgoingon

Overheal wrote: »

I'm tempted to wait for Black Friday or Cyber Monday.

I must be pretty stupid

There will be no discounts on these then too new. Zen 2 though there might be great deals.

Overheal

Nah definitely doing a zen 3 build.

Guess I should go start speccing it out. RAM reccomendations? If 4Ghz ram is gonna help, I would do it, but is it a return on investment

EoinHef

Best speed you can afford with the tightest timings you can afford.

When I last looked it was the 3200Mhz C14 that were the ones to go for. Prices have changed since then so you may be able to do better

Overheal

EoinHef wrote: »

Best speed you can afford with the tightest timings you can afford.

When I last looked it was the 3200Mhz C14 that were the ones to go for. Prices have changed since then so you may be able to do better

This always does my head in a bit. Maximizing clock speed while minimizing clock latency. Ugh.

Like how am I to know whether CL14 3.2G is going to be better or worse or the same as CL17 4Ghz, for example?

EoinHef

There's a formula you can use to calculate overall latency

http://blog.logicalincrements.com/2018/11/choosing-ram-cas-true-latency/

wotzgoingon

No 3600MHz cl 16 is the way to go.

Overheal

wotzgoingon wrote: »

No 3600MHz cl 16 is the way to go.

8.888888... nanoseconds!

I dunno seems peasant.

:pac:

I have (2x8gb) $150 on Ripjaws 3.6G CL16 and for direct comparison Ripjaws 4Ghz CL16 at $270.

... You'd have to be kinda nuts to spend an extra $120 JUST for a 0.888 nanosecond lift, that's no increase in capacity or anything, just, shaving most of a nanosecond off. Crazy.

Right now I'm up on my throne with 33.645 nanosecond latency baby. Oooooh yeah. DDR3 535Mhz CL9. (I hope it doesn't take long for this message to reach you)

EoinHef

wotzgoingon wrote: »

No 3600MHz cl 16 is the way to go.

Just a no? Any reason?


Ill do it for you....


DDR4 3600Mhz C16

(16/3600) X 2000 = 8.88


DDR4 3200Mhz C14

(14/3200) X 2000 = 8.75


Givin the latency is pretty much the same i can see why 3600Mhz C16 is the go to now. Givin the latency being roughly the same,go for higher clock speeds.


One more thing i would consider is price,like what is the extra performance going to be compared to the extra cost?



I think gamers nexus did a bit on that,could have a look for it.


RAM is a lot cheaper than last time i bought any so price may not be an issue like it was

Overheal

EoinHef wrote: »

Just a no? Any reason?


Ill do it for you....


DDR4 3600Mhz C16

(16/3600) X 2000 = 8.88


DDR4 3200Mhz C14

(14/3200) X 2000 = 8.75


Givin the latency is pretty much the same i can see why 3600Mhz C16 is the go to now. Givin the latency being roughly the same,go for higher clock speeds.


One more thing i would consider is price,like what is the extra performance going to be compared to the extra cost?



I think gamers nexus did a bit on that,could have a look for it.


RAM is a lot cheaper than last time i bought any so price may not be an issue like it was

If I had the time or inclination (really, I would need someone to build the table, im too lazy) it would be simple.

Pick a site like newegg, and just pick the best same-size sticks in each category: each major clock speed, the ones with the tightest timings and their price. And you could graph the value curves from that, price vs. true latency in nanoseconds. You will probably get a fairly clear inflection point where the price just starts to skyrocket. You'll get variation from brand and RGB but, still. You could also do it as a scatterplot and get the same effect.

Overheal

Did see this

https://preview.redd.it/d24hymdbbm331.png?width=2572&format=png&auto=webp&ba8d2713



Have they said what the Zen3 sweet spot is, or will it be identical?

edit: found that as well,

BloodBath

Homelander wrote: »

I was thinking about the 5800X for a new build but really not sure. It's £420 or something, that's £70 more than the 10700K which I can't imagine it being much better than, if even.

I know people are always pointing to the 5600X single core score, but that's only parity with Intel at it's stock clock, which is much higher than the Intel base clock, and the chart doing the rounds only has Intel base clocks, so not really a fair comparison at all.

Like, the 10700K at 3.8Ghz, when realistically most people have it at 4.7Ghz all-core. I have a 3700X right now myself because I got a great price on it, but for high refresh gaming it does lag significantly behind Intel counterparts.

It's the pricing of Ryzen 5 that really kills it for me. £300 for the 6 core 5600X, £420 for the 5800X. It just doesn't sit right me with when a octo-core 10700K is £340 right now.

And when you can get that 10700K to close to 5Ghz on all-cores with a good cooler as well.

Ryzen's been amazing because it's been so cheap, amazing value for money, and forced Intel to drop prices big-time. But did they really have to push out their prices by such a huge margin this time around?

I feel like they are taking a big risk with trying to square up to Intel on a 1:1 basis rather than undercutting them severely and offering unbeatable value for the vast majority of the consumer market as they did with 1st, 2nd and 3rd gen.

They can afford to do that when they have the best cpu's on the market. There's always a premium for the best.

AMD have higher IPC so intel clocking higher means nothing. The new Ryzens at 4.8ghz are fasters than intels latest at 5.2Ghz. Intel don't have PCIe4.0 either. AMD's upgrade path choice is also far better. You can go to 16 cores if you want on the same board.

If you don't need the best buy last gen which is where the value is.

EoinHef

Gamers Nexus article,has a few benchmarks of games to show performance differential and also about settings for RAM and Ryzen

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3508-ryzen-3000-memory-benchmark-best-ram-fclk-uclock-mclock

It is for the 3XXX Series Ryzen though,not sure if it holds true for 5XXX Series

wotzgoingon

EoinHef wrote: »

Just a no? Any reason?


Ill do it for you....


DDR4 3600Mhz C16

(16/3600) X 2000 = 8.88


DDR4 3200Mhz C14

(14/3200) X 2000 = 8.75


Givin the latency is pretty much the same i can see why 3600Mhz C16 is the go to now. Givin the latency being roughly the same,go for higher clock speeds.


One more thing i would consider is price,like what is the extra performance going to be compared to the extra cost?



I think gamers nexus did a bit on that,could have a look for it.


RAM is a lot cheaper than last time i bought any so price may not be an issue like it was

The reason 3600MHz is the way to go is with Zen 2 the way to get 1:1:1 was with 3600MHz Ram, 1800Mhz Infinity Fabric, 1800MHz Uclock which gives better performance.

If you went with 3200MHz RAM it would only be 1600MHz IF which lowers performance.

Some people on Zen 2 run 3800Mhz RAM and 1900Mhz IF for even better performance at 1:1:1 but it is unstable and AMD recommend 1800MHz is best and stable.

Nobody knows yet what the best performance is on Zen 3 maybe 1900MHz is stable this time so 3800Mhz RAM with tight timings will be the way to go.

edit: I just seen someone posted it already up above.

EoinHef

Yeah the gamers nexus article goes into that too

Samuel T. Cogley

My understanding is the fabric runs faster on Zen 3 with 4000+ memory possible in a 1:1 config.

I may have asked this already, sorry if I did. The 5600X is one CCD right? IT's not a 3+3 or anything like that?

MidlanderMan

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

My understanding is the fabric runs faster on Zen 3 with 4000+ memory possible in a 1:1 config.

I may have asked this already, sorry if I did. The 5600X is one CCD right? IT's not a 3+3 or anything like that?

the only 5000 series chips with more than 1 CCD will be the 5900 and 5950.

The 5800, 5700, and 5600 (and the 5300 whenever they launch) will be 1 CCD with 8 cores, 2 of which will be disabled in the 5600 and 4 of which will (presumably) be disabled in the 5300. Same set up for all chips below the Ryzen 9's. 1 CCD, 1 IO die, all cores share the same L3 cache.

Squidgy Black

ForestFire wrote: »

The motherboard needs to have a decicated flashback option, what board are you looking at?

I got recently an Asus Prime x570 pro (prime day warehouse deal) that does not have flashback, so my my limited option below are...

1) 3700x/3800x plus Gpu TBC

2) 5600x/radeon 6800(x) combo*

*To achieve 2 I will need a current cpu to upgrade bios first.

I'm half thinking of getting a 3200g/3400g for 100-120euro to have as a starting point for my build and upgrade later to the higher end gear.

My needs are general home computer, photo editing(capture one) so I can live for a few months without games before upgrading again.

Edit:- The X570-F Gaming ATX Motherboard does have flash back option and this can be updated for the new CPUs, with a USB stick (With Bios file) and the push of a button on the motherboard.

Could always just get a cheap previous gen cpu off Amazon and return it straight away worst case scenario.

K.O.Kiki

ForestFire

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Could always just get a cheap previous gen cpu off Amazon and return it straight away worst case scenario.

I looked into this a bit more yesterday after posting and found out AMD have a boot Kit offer they send out to allow you to update your BIOS. This was for the previous Zen2 updates and you need to submit documentation to show you bought the AMD CPU and the motherboard does not boot.

For this they send out a AMD Athlon 220GE and you have a week before you should return it via prepaid post they include.

I asked on support will they offer the same for the 5600x, but they have not confirmed.

the AMD Athlon 220GE is about £95

I found the AMD Athlon 3000G for £54 on amazon, but it's out of stock.
The 3400g is about £130.

Is there any other options you know of, that maybe of interest to me or others? (I may still just go down the 3700x/3800x, if they go on offer)

Squidgy Black

ForestFire wrote: »

I looked into this a bit more yesterday after posting and found out AMD have a boot Kit offer they send out to allow you to update your BIOS. This was for the previous Zen2 updates and you need to submit documentation to show you bought the AMD CPU and the motherboard does not boot.

For this they send out a AMD Athlon 220GE and you have a week before you should return it via prepaid post they include.

I asked on support will they offer the same for the 5600x, but they have not confirmed.

the AMD Athlon 220GE is about £95

I found the AMD Athlon 3000G for £54 on amazon, but it's out of stock.
The 3400g is about £130.

Is there any other options you know of, that maybe of interest to me or others? (I may still just go down the 3700x/3800x, if they go on offer)

Ryzen 3 3100, £99. Alternatively if you do go 3700x/3800x, Amazon extended their returns window until the end of January so plenty of time to wait just in case stock levels are low etc on the Zen 3.

minitrue

CeX appear to have a 200GE to order online for €40 and will buy it back for €17 cash (or €24 voucher) or €70 for a 2200G (€38 cash or €47 voucher back). If I'm looking at the right board Asus don't list the Athlons on their supported cpu list at all though, only the Ryzen 3/5/7/9 and even at that the list of which cpu's were supported by which "bios" versions is a little odd to my eyes so you would love to know which version is actually on that board to be sure to be sure what you can pick from.
https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/PRIME-X570-PRO/HelpDesk_CPU/

Homelander

100% get a Ryzen 3100 @ £95 if you need something to tide you over. Not only it is light years faster than the 3200G, it's also faster than the 3400G and costs way less.

That would easily get you through a while with good performance, it's basically an i7-6700. Great for productivity or gaming.

Plus it will hold resale value fairly well. 200GE is a really low-end, not really good for much apart from casual web/office use, media, etc.

wotzgoingon

Nearly every X570 if not all has bios flashback. X470 only a couple of MB's did.

CJhaughey

I don't think X570 MB's will support Athlon APU's

ForestFire

Well I have made a decision, of sorts, below...

But first, I have canceled the AMD Athlon 3000G for £54 as now not needed.
It may not be supported by the X570 anyway, but is it a 1000 series chip or 3000 series, as per the comparability graph just posted??

So I was looking at the differences between the 3700x and 3800x and was deciding to go towards the 3700x, as it basically the same chip....then somehow I seen a good price on a "lower" end chip and was looking if the 3700x is worth almost the 95euro more....

So welcome 3600XT chip from Amazon DE for 209 euro plus delivery (In stock 17th Nov).......but wait....what's this.....

The 3600 base chip is available from Amazon UK (Free delivery) for 27euro less (£180) and in stock the 7th Nov:D and its only 2-4% lower performance to the XT version..

So I finally have an order placed....

AMD Ryzen 5 3600 Processor (6C/12T, 35 MB Cache, 4.2 GHz Max Boost)


Normally this works the opposite way where is start with the 3600 and slowly justify moving up to the next level, But I will save the 117euro (3700X to 3600) and possible put it towards a better GPU or something.

I'll still keep an eye on the 3700x price over the next week, to see if the new ADM release has any drops in price to this chip and possible make another change:cool: