JobPath/Turas Nua Information Session?

MontoAddict

Gatling wrote: »

No there not leaving people starving or destitute ,it quite simple you engage or lose part of a payment short term ,
Nobody is starving unless it's of their own accord

So one only loses part of the payment, not the full amount?


This is getting very confusing.

infogiver

If there is anyone reading this who is getting JSA and is worried about getting referred to Turas Nua/Seetec then, what is worrying you?
If you are:
1. Too sick in any way, or in too much pain, of any kind, then you should talk to your SW/Intreo office about applying for Disability Allowance and SWA while you are waiting for your DA to be processed.
2. Caring for someone who needs full time care and attention at home, or at their home, then you need to apply for Carers Allowance, you will be allowed to remain on JSA while your application is processed.
3. Looking after your children at home while your partner goes out to work, then if you are getting JSA then it's very likely that your partner would get FIS instead at approximately the same rate. You will not then be expected to look for work.
Everyone else can go to Seetec or Turas Nua, or look for a CE Scheme or one of the numerous courses on fetchcourses.ie
The only people starving and destitute tonight are those with serious social issues.

Gatling

MontoAddict wrote: »

So one only loses part of the payment, not the full amount?


This is getting very confusing.

Yes pretty simple actually

MontoAddict

Gatling wrote: »

Yes pretty simple actually

Well, "infogiver" made out you could either choose to sign on for benefits or else get no money.

Citizens information is also quite ambiguous about this matter.

infogiver

MontoAddict wrote: »

Well, "infogiver" made out you could either choose to sign on for benefits or else get no money.

Citizens information is also quite ambiguous about this matter.

If you sign off, yes, you won't get any more SW benefits.
That's true monto.

LG1234

What's the contract you are signing though? I don't see anywhere on the record of mutal commitment that states my information can be shared with an agent of the Department or that I have to engage with an agent of the Dept?

infogiver

LG1234 wrote: »

What's the contract you are signing though? I don't see anywhere on the record of mutal commitment that states my information can be shared with an agent of the Department or that I have to engage with an agent of the Dept?

The poster Oort Cloud went to the bother of asking his TD to look into this and the TDs answer is on page 41 of this thread.

UrbanFret

Load of codswallop. Can't even give you funding to get site dumper ,forklift , mini digger,mewps etc unless you have been offered a job. fat chance of being offered one without the tickets.

MontoAddict

infogiver wrote: »

If you sign off, yes, you won't get any more SW benefits.
That's true monto.

It also appears to be true that you can indeed tell Turas Nua to fu-ck off and still keep some of your payment.

That must enrage you that people can tell this shower where to go.

infogiver

MontoAddict wrote: »

It also appears to be true that you can indeed tell Turas Nua to fu-ck off and still keep some of your payment.

That must enrage you that people can tell this shower where to go.

Nobody said you would lose your entire payment straight away monto.
They give you loads of chances and lots of encouragement to co operate.
You genuinely seem to be very upset and worried at the idea of Job path.
I don't know if that's because you've been so long out of work that you feel nervous about interviewing and rejoining the workplace, but if I were you I wouldn't let myself down by telling anyone to "f**k off". That won't end well for you, one way or the other.

Sanctions for not meeting the conditions of your jobseeker’s payment

You can be refused a jobseeker’s payment if you do not meet all the conditions that apply to the payment. You can be disqualified from a payment for a period of time in certain circumstances. You can also have your payment reduced (and subsequently stopped altogether for a period of time) if you do not attend meetings or participate in appropriate employment schemes, training or work experience.

Disqualification from a jobseeker’s payment
You may be disqualified from getting a jobseeker’s payment for up to 9 weeks if you:

Left work voluntarily and without just cause
Lost your job through misconduct
Refused or failed to engage with activation measures where a penalty rate applied (see below)
You can be disqualified from Jobseeker’s Benefit if you are aged under 55 and get a redundancy payment of more than €50,000. The exact length of your disqualification (up to 9 weeks) will depend on the amount of redundancy payment you receive.

You can also be disqualified from a jobseeker’s payment if you do not co-operate with the Department of Social Protection’s identity checking procedures for issuing you with a Public Services Card.

You can appeal a decision to disqualify you from a payment to the Social Welfare Appeals Office.

Reduction in payment
When you apply for a jobseeker’s payment you will be asked to sign a Record of Mutual Commitments (pdf) which explains your rights and responsibilities while you are getting your jobseeker’s payment from the Department of Social Protection.

Depending on your personal profile, you may be given an appointment for a further meeting with a DSP Case Officer. At this meeting your Case Officer will discuss your options with you and agree your Personal Progression Plan to prepare you to find employment. You will get ongoing advice and support to help you meet the goals in your Personal Progression Plan. You can read about the employment services the Department of Social Protection offers to jobseekers.

If you do not keep to the steps agreed in the Record of Mutual Commitments and the other conditions of your jobseeker’s payment, your payment can be reduced and eventually stopped altogether. Specifically you can be paid a penalty rate of JA or JB if you refuse or fail to:

Attend meetings requested by the DSP or
Participate in an appropriate employment support scheme, work experience or training
If you have been placed on a penalty rate and you continue not to meet the conditions you can be disqualified from your jobseeker’s payment for up to 9 weeks. You cannot be disqualified immediately – a penalty rate must apply first for at least 21 days.

LG1234

infogiver wrote: »

The poster Oort Cloud went to the bother of asking his TD to look into this and the TDs answer is on page 41 of this thread.

Ye I see the Ministers reply. But I don't see where Ive signed a contract that allows my info to be shared with an agent of DSP

Jim Bob Scratcher

MontoAddict wrote: »

It also appears to be true that you can indeed tell Turas Nua to fu-ck off and still keep some of your payment.

That must enrage you that people can tell this shower where to go.

Why would you tell them to **** off while you can go along with their little game and find your own job, and then should you get it then tell them to **** off so they won't get their nice little bonus for your work in finding that job

infogiver

LG1234 wrote: »

Ye I see the Ministers reply. But I don't see where Ive signed a contract that allows my info to be shared with an agent of DSP

Well i guess that if you do get an invitation to attend Turas Nua/Seetec then you will tell them that you decline the invitation, and why, and let them explain to you the nitty gritty of your contract with DSP.

MontoAddict

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Why would you tell them to **** off while you can go along with their little game and find your own job, and then should you get it then tell them to **** off so they won't get their nice little bonus for your work in finding that job

It's the principle of it. I think it's wrong that this government are pimping out people often in difficult situations to private companies Like Turas Nua who then bully and harass.

Jim Bob Scratcher

MontoAddict wrote: »

It's the principle of it. I think it's wrong that this government are pimping out people often in difficult situations to private companies Like Turas Nua who then bully and harass.

Tell them you want to make a complaint about them. BTW they can only DSP can only cut you down to 144 euro, they can't leave you without a penny. Otherwise how would you survive ?

infogiver

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Tell them you want to make a complaint about them. BTW they can only DSP can only cut you down to 144 euro, they can't leave you without a penny. Otherwise how would you survive ?

The reduction can last for as little as 21 days and your payment can be completely suspended after that.
The penalty phase is in a post of mine in this thread.
If you get yourself cut off then it's not the departments responsibility how you survive.

neonsofa

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Tell them you want to make a complaint about them. BTW they can only DSP can only cut you down to 144 euro, they can't leave you without a penny. Otherwise how would you survive ?

You're right in a way but then you're also slightly incorrect on the last part. Jobseekers allowance isn't a basic living allowance, it's a payment for which there is certain criteria and if they believe you are not fulfilling your obligations as a jobseeker then they can say you are no longer entitled to the payment and they can and do cut people off for no longer "genuinely seeking work", because if you don't want help from people who help you look for work then it could call that criterion into question. The way around that is having documentation of your independent efforts. The DSP don't have an obligation to ensure that you receive a payment. If you fall into the criteria for a payment then they will administer it but they actually don't have a responsibility to ensure people aren't left without a penny. There are many people who don't quality for any payment, even SWA and that's perfectly legitimate in the eyes of the department because we don't have a living allowance as such.

bubbles o hara

Hi Folks.
I'm just back from my first 'appointment' with Turas Nua..and I survived!
Seriously though, I had heard such horror stories about them and had no idea what to expect.
Four of us were in a room where they did a PowerPoint presentation explaining what it was all about, then we each sat down with our own advisor. They ask you for your top three choices of 'career' and put that in your file.

I don't know what will happen from now on, but for those worried about meeting with them for the first time, they were all as nice as could be and I didn't feel under any pressure while there. Even though the invitation (love that) letter said the appointment could last three hours, I was out within 30 minutes, and told that in future the meetings would be even shorter. From now on, we have to attend once a fortnight, not three times weekly as I'd been led to believe.

MontoAddict

neonsofa wrote: »

You're right in a way but then you're also slightly incorrect on the last part. Jobseekers allowance isn't a basic living allowance, it's a payment for which there is certain criteria and if they believe you are not fulfilling your obligations as a jobseeker then they can say you are no longer entitled to the payment and they can and do cut people off for no longer "genuinely seeking work", because if you don't want help from people who help you look for work then it could call that criterion into question. The way around that is having documentation of your independent efforts. The DSP don't have an obligation to ensure that you receive a payment. If you fall into the criteria for a payment then they will administer it but they actually don't have a responsibility to ensure people aren't left without a penny. There are many people who don't quality for any payment, even SWA and that's perfectly legitimate in the eyes of the department because we don't have a living allowance as such.

Thank you for confirming that this government are starving those who don't fall into line.

The concentration camps without the gas chambers.

infogiver

MontoAddict wrote: »

Thank you for confirming that this government are starving those who don't fall into line.

The concentration camps without the gas chambers.

Where would these concentration camps be?

MontoAddict

infogiver wrote: »

Where would these concentration camps be?

Turas Nua offices. Either turn up or starve. You have confirmed this is your preceding posts.

infogiver

MontoAddict wrote: »

Turas Nua offices. Either turn up or starve. You have confirmed this is your preceding posts.

Well, turn up or get a job yourself or starve is more accurate.
If you don't turn up then that was your own desicion so you've only yourself to blame if your eventually left with nothing.
I'm guessing your not big on personal responsibility monto?

MontoAddict

infogiver wrote: »

Well, turn up or get a job yourself or starve is more accurate.
If you don't turn up then that was your own desicion so you've only yourself to blame if your eventually left with nothing.
I'm guessing your not big on personal responsibility monto?

Getting a job suitable for the long term is simple now, is it?

I suppose you think everyone should be shunted into McDonald's style jobs until they're 66?

You're displaying a staggering amount of ignorance on this complex subject "infogiver".

MouseTail

MontoAddict wrote: »

Thank you for confirming that this government are starving those who don't fall into line.

The concentration camps without the gas chambers.

To compare employment activation with concentration camps is truly hyperbolic and offensive.
No-one starves for goodness sake, those who no longer meet the criteria for a jobseekers payment can always apply for Supplementary Welfare Allowance.

MontoAddict

MouseTail wrote: »

To compare employment activation with concentration camps is truly hyperbolic and offensive.
No-one starves for goodness sake, those who no longer meet the criteria for a jobseekers payment can always apply for Supplementary Welfare Allowance.

It's not hyperbolic at all when the end result is no money to buy food.

SWA is only available to those waiting for another welfare payment, i.e DA, JSA etc.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

infogiver

MontoAddict wrote: »

Getting a job suitable for the long term is simple now, is it?

I suppose you think everyone should be shunted into McDonald's style jobs until they're 66?

You're displaying a staggering amount of ignorance on this complex subject "infogiver".

Monto this is how it is.
It's not complex.
If your healthy and well you get some kind of a job to pay your own way.
If you can't read or write then you can get help, free help, to learn to read and write.
If you don't feel stretched enough in the entry level job your in, study at home in your spare time to get qualified to do another, better, job.
Your not entitled to sit at home saying " I don't like any of the jobs I'm being pushed for because I think I'm too good for that job", and then go down to the PO to collect the money that other people, in jobs just like the one that you think are not good enough for you, earned so that you can have your "principles".
Your overbearing sense of entitlement and outrage that your being forced to actually look for work is just pouring out of every post you make.
The truly awfulness of your comparing being pushed to find a job to the plight of concentration camp victims is just revolting.

infogiver

MontoAddict wrote: »

It's not hyperbolic at all when the end result is no money to buy food.

SWA is only available to those waiting for another welfare payment, i.e DA, JSA etc.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

Yes monto. If you refuse to look for a job then you won't get any more taxpayers money.
What's the problem?

MontoAddict

infogiver wrote: »

Yes monto. If you refuse to look for a job then you won't get any more taxpayers money.
What's the problem?

Looking for a job is one thing; being threatened with starvation if you don't comply with being prostituted out to private companies is a fundamentally different matter.

And your superiority complex is laughably misplaced when you don't even know the difference between 'you're' and 'your'.

MouseTail

MontoAddict wrote: »

SWA is only available to those waiting for another welfare payment, i.e DA, JSA et.
.

You are wrong.

infogiver

MontoAddict wrote: »

Looking for a job is one thing; being threatened with starvation if you don't comply with being prostituted out to private companies is a fundamentally different matter.

And your superiority complex is laughably misplaced when you don't even know the difference between 'you're' and 'your'.

I haven't used the word your.
At all.
How long do you expect to be handed €193 per week taxpayers money while you turn your nose up at jobs you consider not good enough for you.?

neonsofa

infogiver wrote: »

I haven't used the word your.
At all.

I think it was in reference to this:

infogiver wrote: »

Well, turn up or get a job yourself or starve is more accurate.
If you don't turn up then that was your own desicion so you've only yourself to blame if your eventually left with nothing.
I'm guessing your not big on personal responsibility monto?

infogiver

neonsofa wrote: »

I think it was in reference to this:

Monto Could have a 50000€ job as an Internet grammar Nazi but he's probably too good for that job.
Plus you need to have the basic ability to quote the correct post so...

The Oort Cloud

MontoAddict wrote: »

Turas Nua offices. Either turn up or starve. You have confirmed this is your preceding posts.

Monto: It's like the old saying... You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink it. If the horse continuously refuses to drink the water, then the horse will suffer and die. even the horse has a choice. This is just the way it is now, and the DSP are ruthless in regards to compliance. If you don't want to drink it, then you suffer. It's not nice, but it's the way it is now.

The government see it as the only way to force people to engage, and that is why sanctions were introduced. Now there is a problem with this in my opinion and it is the case of why a person will not engage with the system in the first place.

The Department Of Social Protection should 'In My Opinion' be able to access some peoples health medical records to see if there is a legitimate health reason as to why some people will continuously refuse to engage with Jobpath/Seetec scheme. At least then, the department can make a formal decision as to a transfer to disability allowance if they feel that a person has difficult health reasons as to not comply with this scheme.

I have noticed that a large amount of people on other forums as well are finding it stressful and have anxiety issues when it comes to Jobpath engagement and other such schemes. Maybe if the Department Of Social Protection looked into why some people fail to engage, (As in health and mental well-being issues of the person) then I would hope that they would have a more humane approach as to how to deal with these people instead of just completely stopping their payment.

Of course the DSP will have to ask the person if they would be willing to sign a release form of their medical records, so in this case it will be up to the customer to decide this course of action if it is the case of a medical or mental health issue as to why they cannot engage.

Samsgirl

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Why would you tell them to **** off while you can go along with their little game and find your own job, and then should you get it then tell them to **** off so they won't get their nice little bonus for your work in finding that job

More or less what I had to do. Since I finished with Turas Nua they have called me 5 times (since May 3rd). They want to know where I am working so they can claim their bonus.
My job has nothing to do with them.
They were in no way instrumental in my getting work.

mp22

Closed,clean up needed........