Letting agent's requests

phantasmagoria

Hi,

I'm due to move soon so am undergoing the apartment searching/viewing cycle. Anyway, the other day I saw a place and the letting agent was requesting the following :

copy of passport, references from employer and landlord. I'm fine with all these things and all were strongly in my favour.

and also last 3 months of bank statements and "financial statements". I think that's a bit cheeky.

As many would be aware, if you are in the middle of a 6 month period, most recent three months might not be in statement form yet. I sent screenshots from my online account and the same of my most recent statement to show the linked account but this was not deemed sufficient, because the letting agent couldn't figure out what was going on.

Out of interest, I proposed that if I were to pay the entire year's lease rent, would bank details to prove my ability to pay be null and void. I was met with a response - no, we wouldn't require that. Anybody else baffled by how some of the letting agents conduct business....do I need to bite the bullet and get an interim statement or find an agent who deals in a common sense approach.

Rant over!

athtrasna

Bank statements are routinely sought in the current market, can you not print out a statement from the kiosk in the bank?

R.D. aka MR.D

We went through this when we were looking earlier this year.

I decided after I supplied my bank info to a letting agent showing way more available funds than would cover the rent for an entire year and we were still rejected, that I wouldn't play that game any more.

There are letting agents out there who don't ask for full statements.

We found a place after about 3.5 weeks looking. It's directly rented from our landlord who accepted us after we had an appointment (those open viewings are killer). Our landlord didn't require anything but the deposit and first months rent and a good long chat about our circumstances. Our landlord has been in the game a long time and seems to do things the old fashioned way but we have a lease and pay by bank transfer and any problems are taken care of within the week.

It might seem disheartening but you will find something.

phantasmagoria

Hopefully, had a viewing this morning so fingers crossed. It was nice to not have to battle my way through crowds of people to look at a storage cupboard!

handlemaster

phantasmagoria wrote: »

Hi,

I'm due to move soon so am undergoing the apartment searching/viewing cycle. Anyway, the other day I saw a place and the letting agent was requesting the following :

copy of passport, references from employer and landlord. I'm fine with all these things and all were strongly in my favour.

and also last 3 months of bank statements and "financial statements". I think that's a bit cheeky.

As many would be aware, if you are in the middle of a 6 month period, most recent three months might not be in statement form yet. I sent screenshots from my online account and the same of my most recent statement to show the linked account but this was not deemed sufficient, because the letting agent couldn't figure out what was going on.

Out of interest, I proposed that if I were to pay the entire year's lease rent, would bank details to prove my ability to pay be null and void. I was met with a response - no, we wouldn't require that. Anybody else baffled by how some of the letting agents conduct business....do I need to bite the bullet and get an interim statement or find an agent who deals in a common sense approach.

Rant over!

So the Landlord wants to make sure you can pay the rent in showing bank statements ... Nothing cheeky .. just wants to make sure your been honest in you saying you can afford the rent. Talk is cheap as they say

SusanC10

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

We went through this when we were looking earlier this year.

I decided after I supplied my bank info to a letting agent showing way more available funds than would cover the rent for an entire year and we were still rejected, that I wouldn't play that game any more.

There are letting agents out there who don't ask for full statements.

We found a place after about 3.5 weeks looking. It's directly rented from our landlord who accepted us after we had an appointment (those open viewings are killer). Our landlord didn't require anything but the deposit and first months rent and a good long chat about our circumstances. Our landlord has been in the game a long time and seems to do things the old fashioned way but we have a lease and pay by bank transfer and any problems are taken care of within the week.

It might seem disheartening but you will find something.

I am with RD on this and would not be at all comfortable with providing Bank Statements to either a Landlord or Estate Agent. I would keep looking.

Last time we rented we were asked for a letter from our Bank confirming that we would be in a financial position to pay the rent each month without giving any further personal info.

Also what about the financial position of the Landlord ? Close friends of ours have recently been given notice by Bank Receiver to leave their accommodation. This is the second time that this has happened to them in 2 years.

newacc2015

SusanC10 wrote: »

I am with RD on this and would not be at all comfortable with providing Bank Statements to either a Landlord or Estate Agent. I would keep looking.

Last time we rented we were asked for a letter from our Bank confirming that we would be in a financial position to pay the rent each month without giving any further personal info.

Also what about the financial position of the Landlord ? Close friends of ours have recently been given notice by Bank Receiver to leave their accommodation. This is the second time that this has happened to them in 2 years.

Unfortunately we live in a country where is no proper credit rating system. In the US, even your electricity company will report your payment history to a rating agency. There is no way in Ireland to tell whether or not if you are a credit worthy individual. Asking for bank statements allows you to see if someone is in someway go with their money

What about the financial position of the landlord? If he goes under, you will get several months to move out by a receiver. They will return your deposit at the end of it. Where as a non-paying tenant could not pay their rent for over a year and not be evicted. A LL has more to lose from a non-payment tenant, than a LL not paying their mortgage

handlemaster

SusanC10 wrote: »

I am with RD on this and would not be at all comfortable with providing Bank Statements to either a Landlord or Estate Agent. I would keep looking.

Last time we rented we were asked for a letter from our Bank confirming that we would be in a financial position to pay the rent each month without giving any further personal info.

Also what about the financial position of the Landlord ? Close friends of ours have recently been given notice by Bank Receiver to leave their accommodation. This is the second time that this has happened to them in 2 years.

If you rent a car you have to prove your ability to pay by wait of a crédit card charge up front. It is acceptable for a LL to look for proof of ability to pay. Talk means nothing.

phantasmagoria

handlemaster wrote: »

If you rent a car you have to prove your ability to pay by wait of a crédit card charge up front. It is acceptable for a LL to look for proof of ability to pay. Talk means nothing.

Surely a deposit, a month in advance, a reference from a previous landlord, a work reference and a various other forms of proof that one has worked for a long period of time would be more valuable than a three month bank statement.

I still ascertain that somebody saying they want to look at your bank statement in detail is intrusive....what happens if there's a breach on your account afterwards because they are careless with their systems. So it isn't talk, it's black and white. What about saying a lease for a year could be paid in advance, hypothetically....why would a three month audit of somebody's account be appropriate? That would take a giant leap of faith by the tenant, but the estate agent was not entertaining it. I think if somebody isn't able to judge whether somebody is a good tenant against the backdrop of current work reference, previous landlord reference and meeting that prospective tenant in person, they really are in the wrong business.

I agree with previous poster who said about the lack of a suitable credit rating system in this country is a major issue. I would much prefer a statement to say "this person is of a suitable credit history to cover the rent on an dwelling at x cost a month". I don't want somebody with access to my bank account details.

handlemaster

phantasmagoria wrote: »

Surely a deposit, a month in advance, a reference from a previous landlord, a work reference and a various other forms of proof that one has worked for a long period of time would be more valuable than a three month bank statement.

I still ascertain that somebody saying they want to look at your bank statement in detail is intrusive....what happens if there's a breach on your account afterwards because they are careless with their systems. So it isn't talk, it's black and white. What about saying a lease for a year could be paid in advance, hypothetically....why would a three month audit of somebody's account be appropriate? That would take a giant leap of faith by the tenant, but the estate agent was not entertaining it. I think if somebody isn't able to judge whether somebody is a good tenant against the backdrop of current work reference, previous landlord reference and meeting that prospective tenant in person, they really are in the wrong business.

I agree with previous poster who said about the lack of a suitable credit rating system in this country is a major issue. I would much prefer a statement to say "this person is of a suitable credit history to cover the rent on an dwelling at x cost a month". I don't want somebody with access to my bank account details.

all of the above plus showing bank statements is normal outside ireland

Lemming

handlemaster wrote: »

all of the above plus showing bank statements is normal outside ireland

"Normal"?! ... I rented for several years in the UK prior to getting a mortgage and not once was I asked to furnish several months worth (or part therein) of bank statements to a prospective landlord. My employers were contacted via third party vetting agency (charged to me by letting agencies) to ensure that a) I was who I said I was and b) to clarify that I was gainfully employed with enough earned per month to cover the rent.

The only time I was ever asked for bank statements was by a mortgage broker.

CruelCoin

handlemaster wrote: »

So the Landlord wants to make sure you can pay the rent in showing bank statements ... Nothing cheeky .. just wants to make sure your been honest in you saying you can afford the rent. Talk is cheap as they say

I'll second this. It's just being prudent.

In the current climate, should a tenant stop paying, it can take years of legal asshattery to kick the out.

Kind of negligent if the landlord didn't look for proof of ability to pay.

Lux23

I would never provide bank statements to a landlord or letting agent. I would maybe give them a copy of a recent payslip but no way are they seeing my bank statements. I would just keep looking. One one occasion I had a landlord ask me to email all this stuff before I even say the place, that is cheeky!

This is why we need an independent credit check system that everyone can use for a small yearly fee.

davo10

Lux23 wrote: »

I would never provide bank statements to a landlord or letting agent. I would maybe give them a copy of a recent payslip but no way are they seeing my bank statements. I would just keep looking. One one occasion I had a landlord ask me to email all this stuff before I even say the place, that is cheeky!

This is why we need an independent credit check system that everyone can use for a small yearly fee.

When you look at that from the other point of view, without some way of confirming you have the means to pay the rent, why would any Land lord rent to you?

Your payslip confirms what you earn, it doesn't indicate that you have funds to pay the rent on an ongoing basis. Your outgoings could be almost what you earn.

With the shortage of rental properties and the difficulty with removing non paying tenants, LLs are quite rightly becoming more careful who they rent to.

SusanC10

Ability to pay is not the only criteria either. My Mum has 2 Rental Properties and as she is getting on in years I have become involved in helping her to manage them.

The only Tenant we ever had an issue with was a person who paid every month without fail by standing order but caused damage to the property, refused access to repair men and harassed my Mum by abusive phone calls and verbal abuse when she met her on the street. Turns out she had Psychiatric issues. But she paid her rent in full and on time. Nightmare trying to get her out of the house - in the end she left of her own accord. She had a Landlord's reference too - which was checked before she became the Tenant.

murphaph

The previous landlord would say mass to get a problem tenant out. Landlords should effectively ignore the tenant's previous landlord and go back further to see what they're really like. A credit rating system is desperately needed. That way if a tenant has so much as failed to pay their phone bill it'll show up in a reduced score, but in the absence of such a system landlords have to make do and mend by asking for some raw data like bank statements. I've a house coming out of RAS and onto the open market in a month or two and I'll be looking for all these things too and no less than 2 months rent deposit and a month in advance.

It's so tight now that I believe the chances of an over holding tenant are much higher than a few years ago as now they have effectively nowhere to go to.

Lux23

davo10 wrote: »

When you look at that from the other point of view, without some way of confirming you have the means to pay the rent, why would any Land lord rent to you?

Because I have been renting 11 years and I never provided financial statements to any landlord so I expect many landlords would rent to me without them. I have been asked and I refused, once I walked away and the other time they offered me the place anyway. So unless this becomes a standard request with a legal basis, I won't do it.

davo10

Lux23 wrote: »

Because I have been renting 11 years and I never provided financial statements to any landlord so I expect many landlords would rent to me without them. I have been asked and I refused, once I walked away and the other time they offered me the place anyway. So unless this becomes a standard request with a legal basis, I won't do it.

That is of course your prerogative, but there is no legal basis to prevent a land lord asking for proof of being able to pay rent so it really depends on what the LL's requirements are. I can't see any reason for a LL to be offended or even inconvenienced by you not wanting to share that information, there is probably someone else behind you only to happy to do so.

Personally I don't ask got bank statements but I do ask for references plus first, last and deposit up front.

TheDoc

Nothing normal about it at all. Comes up frequently on some threads and there are genuine issues.

If your happy sharing bank statements like that fair enough, your prerogative to openly share information. I never have nor will share a bank statement with a landlord or letting agency (not that I'd deal with them anyway).

And if it costs me a place so be it. Granted I've been a bit lucky in my renting, but there has been plenty of places I've walked away from. A big issue is people buying into the exaggeration of availability. Sure its tough out there, but there is still plenty of places available, and being made available frequently.

I'd happily make a generic statement that no landlord is operating acceptable practice when it comes to data security and protection, and I'd question lots of letting agencies also.

I never even entertained providing work references. I've seen landlords talk to other landlords here when there has been tenant issues and suggesting contacting the tenants place of work to complain, as if that's any of their ****ing business or has any relevancy.

References from previous landlords I'm happy to entertain, but outside of that, I'd probably just move on to somewhere else.

murphaph

TheDoc wrote: »

A big issue is people buying into the exaggeration of availability. Sure its tough out there, but there is still plenty of places available, and being made available frequently.

The house I have coming up for rent is in Clonsilla. On Daft yesterday there were a grand total of FIVE properties (of all kinds) in the area. My place (3 bed semi) is currently let for 1200pcm but the current cheapest property (another 3 bed semi) is 1750pcm and it goes up from there. There is very short supply of rental properties. If there wasn't, no landlord could ask for such high rents. The market finds its own level pretty quickly.

It's a free market and people can choose what documents they feel comfortable sharing with party x and other people can decide if they feel comfortable handing over control of an extremely expensive asset to party y. Personally I'd prefer a more holistic credit score that covers more angles than raw bank statements, giving me a simple percentage figure. I don't care to know where the person does their weekly shop or whatever, but there is no such system.

SarahMollie

I experienced this when looking to rent an apartment almost 2 years ago.

I must say, it was only in one place that was a top end complex and through a well known estate agent, so in a way it didn't surprise me that they were seeking more information.

handlemaster

Lemming wrote: »

handlemaster wrote: »

all of the above plus showing bank statements is normal outside ireland

"Normal"?! ... I rented for several years in the UK prior to getting a mortgage and not once was I asked to furnish several months worth (or part therein) of bank statements to a prospective landlord. My employers were contacted via third party vetting agency (charged to me by letting agencies) to ensure that a) I was who I said I was and b) to clarify that I was gainfully employed with enough earned per month to cover the rent.

The only time I was ever asked for bank statements was by a mortgage broker.

Tenants are credit checked in the UK. I know I was

Lemming

handlemaster wrote: »

Tenants are credit checked in the UK. I know I was

I never said I wasn't credit-checked. There's a world ... and I do mean a world of difference between a credit-check and being asked to hand over several months worth of unredacted personal bank statements by some letting agency or landlord who thinks the term "DPA" is some other type of IPA beer.

handlemaster

Lemming wrote: »

I never said I wasn't credit-checked. There's a world ... and I do mean a world of difference between a credit-check and being asked to hand over several months worth of unredacted personal bank statements by some letting agency or landlord who thinks the term "DPA" is some other type of IPA beer.

Its the way it should be no other way of maKing sure a potential tenant can pay

Sad Professor

I think the main reason these rigorous vetting procedures seem alien to Irish tenants is because after all is said and done they don't have much to show for it. The landlord can still boot them out 6 months later or slap a 50+% rent increase on them 2 years later. Then the tenant has to go through the same rigmarole all over again with another landlord/agent.

While I share TheDoc's concern about data protection and agree that there should be a better way for landlords to evaluate a potential tenant, I'd have less problem jumping through these hoops if I knew that once it was done I'd have real security of tenure.

CruelCoin

CruelCoin wrote: »

In the current climate, should a tenant stop paying, it can take years of legal asshattery to kick them out.

This is where it all comes from. If a landlord could regain posession easily from a non paying tenant, they would be much easier on the pre-rental requirements.
The legal system in Ireland is dysfunctional.

Hacuna Matata

Happy to give bank statements to any landlord/agent as long as they can assure me in written that my data will be stored properly in an ISO 27001 certified environment which I have the right to audit, not communicated from agent to landlord or anyone else via unencrypted means, it will be used only for the purpose that was agreed and will be properly destroyed either immediately if I don't get the house, or right after the end of my lease. As for "normal", I've rented for about 15 years in several European countries and my personal experience is that it's definitely not normal.

EagererBeaver

Last time I rented in Ireland this pissed me off as the letting agent was beyond incompetent. I asked after their data protection and retention policies and it stopped being an issue pretty quickly. I offered to show them three month's worth of payslips.

handlemaster

Hacuna Matata wrote: »

Happy to give bank statements to any landlord/agent as long as they can assure me in written that my data will be stored properly in an ISO 27001 certified environment which I have the right to audit, not communicated from agent to landlord or anyone else via unencrypted means, it will be used only for the purpose that was agreed and will be properly destroyed either immediately if I don't get the house, or right after the end of my lease. As for "normal", I've rented for about 15 years in several European countries and my personal experience is that it's definitely not normal.

Theres always one... I would say any half decent landlord would sniff your atitude a mile away

EagererBeaver

handlemaster wrote: »

Theres always one... I would say any half decent landlord would sniff your atitude a mile away

It's not an attitude in the slightest. That data is highly confidential - if you want to request it, you have to play by the rules. If you're not equipped to handle that kind of data then you shouldn't be asking for it.

Hacuna Matata

handlemaster wrote: »

Theres always one... I would say any half decent landlord would sniff your atitude a mile away

Any person with at least a tomato IQ would try to ensure that his financial data is handled properly.