Letting agent's requests

handlemaster

EagererBeaver wrote: »

It's not an attitude in the slightest. That data is highly confidential - if you want to request it, you have to play by the rules. If you're not equipped to handle that kind of data then you shouldn't be asking for it.

You have data also which is highly confidential about the landlord. Bank details , home address, telephone number etc. How do you handle this info ?

davo10

handlemaster wrote: »

You have data also which is highly confidential about the landlord. Bank details , home address, telephone number etc. How do you handle this info ?

While I agree with your sentiment, the tenant is not a data controller in the legal sense so is not subject to the data protection act.

murphaph

davo10 wrote: »

While I agree with your sentiment, the tenant is not a data controller in the legal sense so is not subject to the data protection act.

The landlord doesn't need or probably want to retain any bank statements once he's decided to accept a potential tenant. He can and should just destroy the documents at that point. I know I will. I may not even take possession of them, rather look at them in the potential tenant's presence and hand them straight back. No data protection worries if done like this and the same goal is achieved.

Johngoose

phantasmagoria wrote: »

Hi,

I'm due to move soon so am undergoing the apartment searching/viewing cycle. Anyway, the other day I saw a place and the letting agent was requesting the following :

copy of passport, references from employer and landlord. I'm fine with all these things and all were strongly in my favour.

and also last 3 months of bank statements and "financial statements". I think that's a bit cheeky.

As many would be aware, if you are in the middle of a 6 month period, most recent three months might not be in statement form yet. I sent screenshots from my online account and the same of my most recent statement to show the linked account but this was not deemed sufficient, because the letting agent couldn't figure out what was going on.

Out of interest, I proposed that if I were to pay the entire year's lease rent, would bank details to prove my ability to pay be null and void. I was met with a response - no, we wouldn't require that. Anybody else baffled by how some of the letting agents conduct business....do I need to bite the bullet and get an interim statement or find an agent who deals in a common sense approach.

Rant over!

It's a sh1tty time to be renting alright.I can't move from my rundown rented accommodation as I'd have to pay €200/€300 more now for a smaller place.I have noticed blizzare requests in ads too lately on Daft,it seems these letting agents have their pick of renters and are suitably smug.

davo10

murphaph wrote: »

The landlord doesn't need or probably want to retain any bank statements once he's decided to accept a potential tenant. He can and should just destroy the documents at that point. I know I will. I may not even take possession of them, rather look at them in the potential tenant's presence and hand them straight back. No data protection worries if done like this and the same goal is achieved.

I think it's a step to far myself, I wouldn't think of asking to see anyone's bank statement any more than I would entertain the request from anyone apart from my accountant to show mine. I can see the logic in it but if you are going to that length, you are better off getting out of the business.

newacc2015

Hacuna Matata wrote: »

As for "normal", I've rented for about 15 years in several European countries and my personal experience is that it's definitely not normal.

But I imagine these countries had proper credit rating systems. In Germany, a lot of letting agents would check your credit rating before giving you a place. In Germany several month deposits are the norm too.

When an Irish Landlord doesnt take deposits longer than a month or cant even check whether a tenant is creditworthy or not. Cant you see why they want to see whether a person is financially responsible or not ie seeing three months of wages and spending. It might not be the norm in other countries, but a proper credit rating system in Ireland is not the norm either

murphaph

newacc2015 wrote: »

But I imagine these countries had proper credit rating systems. In Germany, a lot of letting agents would check your credit rating before giving you a place. In Germany several month deposits are the norm too.

When an Irish Landlord doesnt take deposits longer than a month or cant even check whether a tenant is creditworthy or not. Cant you see why they want to see whether a person is financially responsible or not ie seeing three months of wages and spending. It might not be the norm in other countries, but a proper credit rating system in Ireland is not the norm either

Exactly. I have a flat coming up for rent in Berlin soon. I won't ask for bank statements with that one because I will rely on the person's Schufa (credit rating agency) to tell me if they are likely to be able to pay the rent. A credit rating score of less than 95% and I would not be comfortable letting to that person. It's easier for me. The agency does the sums and gives you a simple percentage score. In Ireland we need it but don't have it and given how expensive a mistake it can be to let to the wrong person, Irish landlords have to look at alternatives like bank statements.

Ireland doesn't even have compulsory registration of abode, so even catching up with a defaulter is very difficult.

murphaph

davo10 wrote: »

I think it's a step to far myself, I wouldn't think of asking to see anyone's bank statement any more than I would entertain the request from anyone apart from my accountant to show mine. I can see the logic in it but if you are going to that length, you are better off getting out of the business.

Nonsensical argument because it's not difficult for me to request bank statements and as it becomes more common, landlords who don't do it will face an increasing chance of letting to a rent nomad.

phantasmagoria

So I saw another place, sent all the requested documents, got a call off the estate agent to say all looks in order and he just will run it by the landlord at a meeting in the morning but he is pretty confident. Following day, landlord refuses. It is beyond ridiculous at this stage. I offer to show payslips and a statement of savings to be met by a deafening wall of silence. Thought to myself afterwards, these things happen for a reason. It is disheartening to go through this. I'm learning as I go along but probably better to not do business with these people. I have worked for the last 22 years, clearly come across as a decent person with references and likewise my girlfriend, yet still we remain like characters in a weird Kafka novel.

davo10

murphaph wrote: »

Nonsensical argument because it's not difficult for me to request bank statements and as it becomes more common, landlords who don't do it will face an increasing chance of letting to a rent nomad.

How much money would you look for in a perspective tenants account? Five thousand, ten, twenty? Say the tenant buys a car a week after moving in and the balance drops below a threshold you would not rent, does seeing the bank statement now make any difference? Just because the tenant has €20k in their account, does that guarantee that they are going to pay it to you? What's to stop a tenant from closing that account after showing the statements?

Would you hand over your bank statements to a travel agent if they wanted to see them before they would take a deposit on a holiday booking? Would you give three months statements to a garage when ordering a car?

Take up a larger deposit if you are worried about nomadic tendencies.

murphaph

davo10 wrote: »

How much money would you look for in a perspective tenants account? Five thousand, ten, twenty? Say the tenant buys a car a week after moving in and the balance drops below a threshold you would not rent, does seeing the bank statement now make any difference? Just because the tenant has €20k in their account, does that guarantee that they are going to pay it to you? What's to stop a tenant from closing that account after showing the statements?

Look, nobody is saying that seeing bank statements will guarentee no problems. That would be naive in the extreme. The standing balance would be of almost no concern. What I'd be looking for are regular wage payments in and regular rent payments out. I'd like to see some buffer in there that showed me the person was not living pay cheque to pay cheque, but we're not talking huge money, just that their balance wasn't being run down to nothing the day before pay day every month.

davo10 wrote: »

Would you hand over your bank statements to a travel agent if they wanted to see them before they would take a deposit on a holiday booking? Would you give three months statements to a garage when ordering a car?

This is comparing apples with oranges. The deposit you pay is the security the travel agent has. He can sell your place on to the next punter and keep your deposit. You don't get to go on your holiday without paying in full. An over holding tenant does get to continue enjoying the property he is not paying for and the system ensures that he will be able to continue doing so for a year or more. You must be able to appreciate the difference? A much more comparable situation might be a person applying for a mortgageas defaulting mortgage holder will also take a year or more to remove from a property they are no longer paying for, yet in that case the applicant has to supply snow white bank statements.

davo10 wrote: »

Take up a larger deposit if you are worried about nomadic tendencies.

You'd need to take a deposit of at least 20k if not more to cover for this eventuality in a Dublin rental and that assumes no malicious damage is done to the property!!

sk8board

As a landlord, I haven't requested bank statements as yet, but I do as many other checks that I can to ensure the prospective tenant isn't a rent nomad.

It's an unfortunate byproduct of the current tight supply - you get all the bloody nomads calling and if one gets past your checks, it will take 18 months to remove them.
With a work or landlord reference, I can call and confirm it and get a feel for the tenant - it's not like I can do the same with a bank, they're not going to tell me a thing. I'd struggle to take a few photocopied a4 statements at more than face value

murphaph

sk8board wrote: »

As a landlord, I haven't requested bank statements as yet, but I do as many other checks that I can to ensure the prospective tenant isn't a rent nomad.

It's an unfortunate byproduct of the current tight supply - you get all the bloody nomads calling and if one gets past your checks, it will take 18 months to remove them.
With a work or landlord reference, I can call and confirm it and get a feel for the tenant - it's not like I can do the same with a bank, they're not going to tell me a thing. I'd struggle to take a few photocopied a4 statements at more than face value

Ah you'd want to see originals before handing over the keys. I see a huge increase in the risk of rent nomads with the shortened supply. I'd say they will be staying right to the bitter end in this climate.

I hope you're calling the applicant's previous landlord and not their current one. The current one would say mass to get rid of his rent nomad unfortunately.

Best of luck by the way. I've experienced an over holding commercial tenant and that was no fun and very expensive.

handlemaster

davo10 wrote: »

While I agree with your sentiment, the tenant is not a data controller in the legal sense so is not subject to the data protection act.

Pull the other one. If your given personal info you are to respect that same as LL

davo10

handlemaster wrote: »

Pull the other one. If your given personal info you are to respect that same as LL

Eh no, the landlord is a person or organisation who has informed the tenant that the provision of personal info is a requirement, they are then obligated to store that information in line with data protection legislation, if the LL then voluntarily gives his/her info to the tenant then that is their business, that particular info is the same as is visible on any cheque (name, account number, branch sort code).

We should all respect it, but we are not all data controllers.

handlemaster

davo10 wrote: »

Eh no, the landlord is a person or organisation who has informed the tenant that the provision of personal info is a requirement, they are then obligated to store that information in line with data protection legislation, if the LL then voluntarily gives his/her info to the tenant then that is their business, that particular info is the same as is visible on any cheque (name, account number, branch sort code).

We should all respect it, but we are not all data controllers.

The tenant gives their info voluntarily also. Same difference.

EagererBeaver

handlemaster wrote: »

The tenant gives their info voluntarily also. Same difference.

You don't really get that this is a point of law, rather than just how you feel about it, do you?

athtrasna

There's a legal discussion forum if you want to continue this line of discussion http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=633

Chromosphere

Seems emigration is rapidly becoming an attractive option again due to lack of housing rather than lack of jobs.

Rents are way too high, leases are terrible and the quality of properties is generally awful.

I don't see any attraction to living in rental here when it means a pretty grim lifestyle compared to plenty of alternative locations elsewhere in Europe.

murphaph

Chromosphere wrote: »

Seems emigration is rapidly becoming an attractive option again due to lack of housing rather than lack of jobs.

Rents are way too high, leases are terrible and the quality of properties is generally awful.

I don't see any attraction to living in rental here when it means a pretty grim lifestyle compared to plenty of alternative locations elsewhere in Europe.

The major German cities (so anywhere with jobs) are all experiencing rental shortages and increasing rents too. More and more Germans are becoming home owners.

I can't speak for other countries and cities where employment is available.