Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

Lovely Bloke

yer man from Southampton

the portuguese

Mitch Connor

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

yer man from Southampton

the portuguese

The speculation I am seeing is Fonte is being targeted regardless of sales - with one or two of the big earners being moved on to allow the purchase of Fabianho from Monaco, for right back.

jaykay74

If Jones is going I'd hope it would be a sale and not a loan as I see speculated online.

jayo26

jaykay74 wrote: »

If Jones is going I'd hope it would be a sale and not a loan as I see speculated online.

I'd prefer a loan. All thats wrong with jones is his fitness if he could spend a season on loan test his fitness and see if he can build his level of performances up and if he got a good run I think there is a very good defender there.

If the loan don't work out I don't think it would be much lost were not going to get much money for him anyway.

TheDoc

jayo26 wrote: »

I'd prefer a loan. All thats wrong with jones is his fitness if he could spend a season on loan test his fitness and see if he can build his level of performances up and if he got a good run I think there is a very good defender there.

If the loan don't work out I don't think it would be much lost were not going to get much money for him anyway.

Five years at the club, that's Anderson levels of taking the piss.

Even during his fit spells seen little to inspire me, and he's shown himself totally unreliable.

This is the expectations that the club are setting now, with the transfer business, especially Pogba, and all the noises. No room for passengers, glory, titles, winning. This is the metric by which our decisions and judgements need to be made, and I know I'll be changing mine to boot. If we want to be a European super power, properly, and finally, we need to start judging players based on that.

Jones is and has been surplus to requirements.

Loans between PL clubs are a joke at this stage for anyone not a youth prospect. It's clubs just taking the piss. I'd look for Stoke to cough up some actual cash, and in the current market you could probably get an easy £15m for him, which is good business.

Cantona's Collars

I honestly would not miss Jones at all,the guy has barely figured and any time you see him play you are just waiting for the moment he does something to injure himself.
He had potential but it is time to realise it somewhere else as he is just a passenger claiming a wage that could be given to somebody that actually plays more than 2 games in a row without being crocked.

beno619

TheDoc wrote: »

Five years at the club, that's Anderson levels of taking the piss.

Even during his fit spells seen little to inspire me, and he's shown himself totally unreliable.

This is the expectations that the club are setting now, with the transfer business, especially Pogba, and all the noises. No room for passengers, glory, titles, winning. This is the metric by which our decisions and judgements need to be made, and I know I'll be changing mine to boot. If we want to be a European super power, properly, and finally, we need to start judging players based on that.

It's funny you dont apply the same standards to Basti.

I'd understand Jones being sold, I think he has similar potential to Smalling and will come good if he can get over the injury problems.

Bradz213

Phil Jones leaving would be no loss. Injuries aside he's a terrible defender. Always frantically trying to recover due to his poor positioning / anticipation.

The only thing he is good for is his stroke faces

Pro. F

A bit late to the party, but that was a very enjoyable performance on Friday. The fact that Mourinho is getting a performance like that in only his second league game is a great sign. The contrast to the struggles that LVG and Moyes had to get the basics working is huge. Things still aren't perfect, but they are more than far enough along to look very optomistic.

Pogba looked class. I had questions about how exactly he'd get on in the heart of midfield - which he rarely played for Juve, and I don't think ever shone at. He has been a player who doesn't really control games, but rather blows things open, but with a proper all-rounder (like Fellaini might prove to be) beside him, he brings that dynamism Jose was saying he wanted. If Jose can make it fully work then our prospects are looking very good.

RobertKK

ShooterSF wrote: »

Sickened myself. Will be over in Vegas that weekend with a fellow United Supporter and 2 liverpool ones. Had made plans to watch it at stupid o'clock. Gets moved and now we'll all be on a plane home at kick off. FU SKY

I will be in Chicago's O'Hare airport waiting for a flight transfer to get me to Texas.
I will have time to see the game as I have a 5 hour wait and match starts 3 hours before the flight.
Wonder if there is anyway to see the game? Will it be shown in the airport?
Then the following weekend the Chelsea game is on 4 hours before the F1 race I am attending. Likely will be in a pub in Austin at 10am for that.
I thought the Liverpool game would be on the Sunday, was not impressed with the Monday night, haven't missed a United/Liverpool game in decades.

Cantona's Collars

Pro. F wrote: »

A bit late to the party, but that was a very enjoyable performance on Friday. The fact that Mourinho is getting a performance like that in only his second league game is a great sign. The contrast to the struggles that LVG and Moyes had to get the basics working is huge. Things still aren't perfect, but they are more than far enough along to look very optomistic.

Pogba looked class. I had questions about how exactly he'd get on in the heart of midfield - which he rarely played for Juve, and I don't think ever shone at. He has been a player who doesn't really control games, but rather blows things open, but with a proper all-rounder (like Fellaini might prove to be) beside him, he brings that dynamism Jose was saying he wanted. If Jose can make it fully work then our prospects are looking very good.

For all the inane stuff Henry comes out with on Sky,he made a good point about Pogba,he said he reminds him of Viera.A player who can go into a clash with 2 or even 3 players and outmuscle them then come clear with the ball.
Contrast our midfield now compared with the last 3 seasons where we were so timid and easily bullied,we were turning into Arsenal,lots of passes but shrank in the face of a fight.
Jose said work still needs to be done but it makes a change actually looking forward to a game rather than seeing it as an act of duty from being a fan of the team and a chore to watch.
Roll on the weekend.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

Five years at the club, that's Anderson levels of taking the piss.

Even during his fit spells seen little to inspire me, and he's shown himself totally unreliable.

This is the expectations that the club are setting now, with the transfer business, especially Pogba, and all the noises. No room for passengers, glory, titles, winning. This is the metric by which our decisions and judgements need to be made, and I know I'll be changing mine to boot. If we want to be a European super power, properly, and finally, we need to start judging players based on that.

Jones is and has been surplus to requirements.

Loans between PL clubs are a joke at this stage for anyone not a youth prospect. It's clubs just taking the piss. I'd look for Stoke to cough up some actual cash, and in the current market you could probably get an easy £15m for him, which is good business.

Not at all. Take a player off the wage bill for a season and give him a chance to get his career back on track. Then at the end you still get to sell him if you want. It's an extremely beneficial situation for the club doing the lending.

Jones has shown fantastic potential and is still young for a centre-back. And the fact that he's had so many injuries means that he's not nearly as far along in his development as you would normally expect at his age (24). That's a reason to keep him, as that potential has not yet been properly explored. And with a loan, it would cost nothing.

You should learn lessons from what happened with Smalling a few years ago.

Cantona's Collars

RobertKK wrote: »

I will be in Chicago's O'Hare airport waiting for a flight transfer to get me to Texas.
I will have time to see the game as I have a 5 hour wait and match starts 3 hours before the flight.
Wonder if there is anyway to see the game? Will it be shown in the airport?
Then the following weekend the Chelsea game is on 4 hours before the F1 race I am attending. Likely will be in a pub in Austin at 10am for that.
I thought the Liverpool game would be on the Sunday, was not impressed with the Monday night, haven't missed a United/Liverpool game in decades.

Mr. La Dee Da,jetsetting around the world and attending F1,are you Eddie Jordan?:pac::pac:

JakeArmitage

RobertKK wrote: »

I will be in Chicago's O'Hare airport waiting for a flight transfer to get me to Texas.
I will have time to see the game as I have a 5 hour wait and match starts 3 hours before the flight.
Wonder if there is anyway to see the game? Will it be shown in the airport?
Then the following weekend the Chelsea game is on 4 hours before the F1 race I am attending. Likely will be in a pub in Austin at 10am for that.
I thought the Liverpool game would be on the Sunday, was not impressed with the Monday night, haven't missed a United/Liverpool game in decades.

ill be on a flight for the city game

RobertKK

Bailly is already better than Phil Jones ever was for us.

Cantona's Collars

RobertKK wrote: »

Bailly is already better than Phil Jones ever was for us.

We have a team of monsters now.Bailly is hard as nails and we have so many 6ft+ players.

RobertKK

zerks wrote: »

Mr. La Dee Da,jetsetting around the world and attending F1,are you Eddie Jordan?:pac::pac:

Wouldn't mind his bank account... :pac:

jayo26

TheDoc wrote: »

Five years at the club, that's Anderson levels of taking the piss.

Even during his fit spells seen little to inspire me, and he's shown himself totally unreliable.

This is the expectations that the club are setting now, with the transfer business, especially Pogba, and all the noises. No room for passengers, glory, titles, winning. This is the metric by which our decisions and judgements need to be made, and I know I'll be changing mine to boot. If we want to be a European super power, properly, and finally, we need to start judging players based on that.

Jones is and has been surplus to requirements.

Loans between PL clubs are a joke at this stage for anyone not a youth prospect. It's clubs just taking the piss. I'd look for Stoke to cough up some actual cash, and in the current market you could probably get an easy £15m for him, which is good business.

Totally understand he wouldn't be much loss at the moment but I don't think we would get 15 million for him no club is that stupid.

My point was that I think we would only get small money for him like 5 million or small bit more and for that kind of money it wouldn't make sense to leave him go and risk him getting fit and becoming a more valuable player.

If Jones spent a season playing for stoke and stayed fit no matter how good we think he is compared to our squad he would be worth a small fortune because of his age and he is English or se he would be worth keeping if we have space in the team.

Pro. F

RobertKK wrote: »

Bailly is already better than Phil Jones ever was for us.

Of course he is. He hasn't been plagued with injuries and so has a full season of regular football behind him.

PaddyCar

CBJ has joined wolves on loan. Be interesting to see how he gets on there. Decent player

Cantona's Collars

United's transfer spending since the start of the EPL.

Cantona's Collars

PaddyCar wrote: »

CBJ has joined wolves on loan. Be interesting to see how he gets on there. Decent player

Tyler Blackett has passed a medical at Reading.
http://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-star-undergoes-reading-11782313

bangkok

zerks wrote: »

Tyler Blackett has passed a medical at Reading.
http://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-star-undergoes-reading-11782313

surely thats 8 players gone now....

jaykay74

Pro. F wrote: »

Not at all. Take a player off the wage bill for a season and give him a chance to get his career back on track. Then at the end you still get to sell him if you want. It's an extremely beneficial situation for the club doing the lending.

Jones has shown fantastic potential and is still young for a centre-back. And the fact that he's had so many injuries means that he's not nearly as far along in his development as you would normally expect at his age (24). That's a reason to keep him, as that potential has not yet been properly explored. And with a loan, it would cost nothing.

Any idea whats left on Jones contract because if he comes back with 1 year left it makes it awkward for Utd to get max value on any sale.

Also does a loan always cost nothing ? I thought the loaning club sometimes only looks to pay a share of wages or...

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

surely thats 8 players gone now....

Yes but fellaini has been brilliant you can't score any I was right points when he is playing so well.

TheDoc

beno619 wrote: »

It's funny you dont apply the same standards to Basti.

I'd understand Jones being sold, I think he has similar potential to Smalling and will come good if he can get over the injury problems.

Er...yeah I do.

There is a pretty big difference between Phil Jones, achiever of nothing, and Bastian Schweinsteiger, achiever of everything. I've come to accept the logic of removing Schweinsteiger from plans going forward, now that I realise Carrick's contract offer is a token gesture for time served, and that he won't be near the first team for any meaningful games.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

Not at all. Take a player off the wage bill for a season and give him a chance to get his career back on track. Then at the end you still get to sell him if you want. It's an extremely beneficial situation for the club doing the lending.

Jones has shown fantastic potential and is still young for a centre-back. And the fact that he's had so many injuries means that he's not nearly as far along in his development as you would normally expect at his age (24). That's a reason to keep him, as that potential has not yet been properly explored. And with a loan, it would cost nothing.

You should learn lessons from what happened with Smalling a few years ago.

That is the joke part. It's removing clubs from having to make tough decisions, and ergo recruit better in the longterm.

It's a pet hate of mine. I appreciate the logic to it, but I think it's pretty rubbish. Look at Chelsea like, ****ing hell.

And does it really give the players involved the kick up the arse required?

Pro. F

jaykay74 wrote: »

Any idea whats left on Jones contract because if he comes back with 1 year left it makes it awkward for Utd to get max value on any sale.

Also does a loan always cost nothing ? I thought the loaning club sometimes only looks to pay a share of wages or...

Contracted until June 2019 according to transfermarkt.

As far as I know, loans can take all sorts of different forms. The lending club can pay some, none or all of the wages. Or, even better, they can agree to pay the wages whenever the player plays, which is a way to ensure more game time.

TheDoc

jaykay74 wrote: »

Any idea whats left on Jones contract because if he comes back with 1 year left it makes it awkward for Utd to get max value on any sale.

Also does a loan always cost nothing ? I thought the loaning club sometimes only looks to pay a share of wages or...

I don't think the loan details ever really come out like the transfers stuff. But I'd hazard a guess United would retain paying a sizeable portion, still less then 100%, but your still retaining some expenditure.

Jayop

I don't like loan deals either. I don't really even like them for young players and would prefer to see them either given a chance in house or sold. With older players it's completely pointless imo. What will a loan for Jones prove? That he managed to stay fit for a season will be the only thing. He's still going to be am injury risk after that one year.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

That is the joke part. It's removing clubs from having to make tough decisions, and ergo recruit better in the longterm.

It's a pet hate of mine. I appreciate the logic to it, but I think it's pretty rubbish. Look at Chelsea like, ****ing hell.

And does it really give the players involved the kick up the arse required?

Nonsense logic. The club should try to get the best value they can out of the Jones situation. Not punish themselves for having bought a player who turned out to have injury problems. It's very likely that those injury problems were impossible to accurately predict when Jones was bought.

And the "he needs a kick up the arse" is auld fella hogwash. He needs regular football.

The fact that clubs loaning out lots of players annoys you is completely irrelevant to discussing what the club should do with any particular player.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

A bit late to the party, but that was a very enjoyable performance on Friday. The fact that Mourinho is getting a performance like that in only his second league game is a great sign. The contrast to the struggles that LVG and Moyes had to get the basics working is huge. Things still aren't perfect, but they are more than far enough along to look very optomistic.

Pogba looked class. I had questions about how exactly he'd get on in the heart of midfield - which he rarely played for Juve, and I don't think ever shone at. He has been a player who doesn't really control games, but rather blows things open, but with a proper all-rounder (like Fellaini might prove to be) beside him, he brings that dynamism Jose was saying he wanted. If Jose can make it fully work then our prospects are looking very good.

Great post.

IMO keeping Fellaini on-form is essential to the system Jose has looked to setup from I have seen so far.
His role seems to be very specific from watching him in the last three games and has no issue in following the instruction. I'd be interested to see a heat map of his positioning for all 3.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

Nonsense logic. The club should try to get the best value they can out of the Jones situation. Not punish themselves for having bought a player who turned out to have injury problems. It's very likely that those injury problems were impossible to accurately predict when Jones was bought.

And the "he needs a kick up the arse" is auld fella hogwash. He needs regular football.

The fact that clubs loaning out lots of players annoys you is completely irrelevant to discussing what the club should do with any particular player.

Kick up the arse comment was nothing directed at Jones. More for the likes of a Januzaj, who appears to have an attitude problem. I don't think loans really address this.

The best value for the Jones situation, is likely shifting him for €10-15m. Provides opportunity for a youth player to step up in reserve, or the manager to buy a reliable backup.

He will most likely receive regular football at another club a few rungs down the league.

There comes a time when you just need to cut your losses. Loaning out a player is just not dealing with the issue, and puts the player in a weird limbo. When you hear most people in the game talk about loans for players over 21, there is rarely positive feedback.

Maybe the loan is to try jack up the market price for him, but its just as risky if he has a poor loan spell. In the current climate and environment, Phil Jones easily fetches €10-12m, easily.

Julez

RobertKK wrote: »

I will be in Chicago's O'Hare airport waiting for a flight transfer to get me to Texas.
I will have time to see the game as I have a 5 hour wait and match starts 3 hours before the flight.
Wonder if there is anyway to see the game? Will it be shown in the airport?
Then the following weekend the Chelsea game is on 4 hours before the F1 race I am attending. Likely will be in a pub in Austin at 10am for that.
I thought the Liverpool game would be on the Sunday, was not impressed with the Monday night, haven't missed a United/Liverpool game in decades.

If you find a bar, the games are shown on MSNBC which I think is a fairly basically available cable station, so if they're willing to switch stations for you you should get it.

Mitch Connor

If United loan out senior players like Nani, Rojo and Jones (two players linked with loans) its because they can't find a buyer for them - high wages being, as always, a big problem.

Billy86

Ah jaysus why did we have to sign Nani again!? :mad:

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

The best value for the Jones situation, is likely shifting him for €10-15m. Provides opportunity for a youth player to step up in reserve, or the manager to buy a reliable backup.

He will most likely receive regular football at another club a few rungs down the league.

There comes a time when you just need to cut your losses. Loaning out a player is just not dealing with the issue, and puts the player in a weird limbo. When you hear most people in the game talk about loans for players over 21, there is rarely positive feedback.

Maybe the loan is to try jack up the market price for him, but its just as risky if he has a poor loan spell. In the current climate and environment, Phil Jones easily fetches €10-12m, easily.

You are talking as if there's no chance that Jones's career could kick on from this point. He's still young for a CB and has shown great potential. And the chances of a loan spell going so badly that his sale price would get significantly worse are quite slim.

The idea that loan spells for players over 21 usually work out badly is just plain wrong. Just look at how they use loans in Italy, and more importantly, think about how relatively late in their careers CBs develop.

Eh Nani??

Trigger

We should offer Jones to Arsenal for 30m seeing as they are set to miss out on Mustafi

Mitch Connor

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Eh Nani??

we loaned him out because we couldn't find a buyer that summer.

jayo26

Nani was world class we should never of sold him

Maximus Alexander

Nani would tear it up in the current squad.

Maximus Alexander

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Nani would tear it up in the current squad.

Nani - In all seriousness, the Guardian published a decent interview with him last week...

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/aug/17/nani-manchester-united-best-worst-moment-life

Talks about that contract he got under Moyes, amongst other things, good read.

brinty

I Nani
Never should've sold him


Or welbz


Or tclevz23

Cantona's Collars

brinty wrote: »

I Nani
Never should've sold him


Or welbz


Or tclevz23

You forgot to mention Ando.

zerks

zerks wrote: »

You forgot to mention Ando.

I still can't believe we let Zaha go, farcical.

StringerBell

Mitch Connor wrote: »

we loaned him out because we couldn't find a buyer that summer.

Thought it was a makeweight in the Rojo deal since they were playing hard ball and that was turning ugly

Cantona's Collars

stankratz wrote: »

I still can't believe we let Zaha go, farcical.

He's no Nick Powell though.

Coat22

Pro. F wrote: »

You are talking as if there's no chance that Jones's career could kick on from this point. He's still young for a CB and has shown great potential. And the chances of a loan spell going so badly that his sale price would get significantly worse are quite slim.

The idea that loan spells for players over 21 usually work out badly is just plain wrong. Just look at how they use loans in Italy, and more importantly, think about how relatively late in their careers CBs develop.

Its not so long ago since he was described as the "best young defender in Europe" on this thread LOL

He's 23 and has shown no sign of progressing for the last 4 seasons. Granted the poor bloke has been injured a lot but that's the way the cookie crumbles unfortunately.

I think we should grab whatever we can for him now. Wenger would probably adopt him to keep that other great prospect Danny Wellbeck company.