Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

beno619

brinty wrote: »

You asked to compare him to his peers
There's a list of them all if whom are better

I never said any were or are attainable, but Chelsea willing to spend crazy on Bonucci ... I'd match them and let the chips fall.... but then your argument becomes we'd be wasting money and overpaying for him.. am I right??

Half the players you listed are inferior to Smalling defensively.

Hummels & Pique are lovely footballers same as the Spurs players but aren't as solid as Smalling.

Sorry brinty but I don't agree at all
My thoughts on Mike Smalling

Underrated IMO and gets overly critized if he makes a very rare mishap in what has been a very solid 2 years with little to no injury.
Replacing him would be madness and I have a strong feeling there would be multiple clubs (in particular Europe) who would jump at the chance to buy him
He's still young which is also overlooked

Liam McPoyle

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Sorry brinty but I don't agree at all
My thoughts on Mike Smalling

Underrated IMO and gets overly critized if he makes a very rare mishap in what has been a very solid 2 years with little to no injury.
Replacing him would be madness and I have a strong feeling there would be multiple clubs (in particular Europe) who would jump at the chance to buy him
He's still young which is also overlooked

Aye, I think him and Bailly can form a brilliant partnership IMO.

Not dissimilar to Rio and Vidic.

Bailly is very much a get stuck in player like Vidic.

Mike is more of a reader like Rio.

Obviously I'm not saying they are on that level yet but if both can get a full season behind them playing together and remain injury free then that's our centre half position sewn up for the next number of years, as you said Mick, age is in their favour, Mike is 27 and Bailly is a pup at just 22, lots of years left in the partnership.

brinty

Lads I might be in the minority

I accept that but as I've consistently said for a team looking to win the champions league which is our ultimate goal Chris Smalling is not good enough

Yea he'd be in a league winning team but that's settling for less than what we as a club aspire to be. I expect and hope for more in the long term

If he's so good why does he panic when under pressure and make such bad decisions. In the biggest games he crumbles

City in 2014/15 - multiple fouls,a walking red card and sent off
Everton - semi final 15/16 - shaky and scored an own goal
Crystal palace FA cup final - walking red card and sent off again

Three incidents in 18 months..

Now several of you will say Rio and vidic did that and I admit they did. But Chris hasn't delivered close to the same level of performances on a consistent basis at the highest levels to balance these things off.

He's a good player admittedly but when you want to compete at the highest levels he's not good enough and I think Jose will see that for himself

secman

With central defenders it's all about getting a partnership, ideally an enforcer and an organiser ball player. When you get it right the partnership will be way better than the sum of the two of them.

We have had two such in past years
Bruce and Pally , a great example
Rio and Vidic. When these brilliant partnerships were split due to injuries or suspension the remaining one never looked the same player until the other returned.

We have struggled to find a partner for Smalling ,but Bailley just might be the one for Smalling .

beno619

brinty wrote: »

He's a good player admittedly but when you want to compete at the highest levels he's not good enough and I think Jose will see that for himself

I can't speak about the Italian players you referenced but your widely overstating the quality of available CB's on the continent.

Gary Cahill regularly plays for Chelsea ffs, even someone like Pepe who divides opinion plays a large number of games for Madrid.

People were creaming themselves over Mangala a few years ago...Hummel's regularly ****s the bed & his partner at Bayern is probably the most overrated defender on the planet.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

Young is the absolute personification of how Ferguson made a ****ing meal of our European dominance.

I don't dislike the man, but he should be nowhere near our club and it's amazing hes stayed aslong as he has.

Ashley Young was one of the best wingers in the league when we signed him.

dave_o_brien

brinty wrote: »

He's a good player admittedly but when you want to compete at the highest levels he's not good enough and I think Jose will see that for himself

To be fair, you've named about 8 players in Europe you think are better than him, and several people (myself included) disagree with a number of them.

So you agree he's in the top 10 defenders in Europe, while we believe he's probably top 5. I think that's pretty good.

brinty

dave_o_brien wrote:

So you agree he's in the top 10 defenders in Europe, while we believe he's probably top 5. I think that's pretty good.

He in his hoop top 10 I never agreed on that

dave_o_brien

brinty wrote: »

He in his hoop top 10 I never agreed on that

Sorry, I recounted, you named 11 players better than him (half of whom many would dispute). So he's top 12?!

brinty

dave_o_brien wrote: »

Sorry, I recounted, you named 11 players better than him (half of whom many would dispute). So he's top 12?!

Dave, for me he's not top 20 never mind 12, i don't have a huge and in depth knowledge of european defenders and i'm sure i've missed some out so no he's not a top 20 for me. And at present Bailly is probably better than him.

This is a huge symptom of whats wrong at Manchester United and with some of the supporters. Settling on someone like Chris Smalling and believing he's one of the best defenders in Europe.

Heavens above, taxi for me if this is what we're being reduced too

sky88

TheDoc wrote: »

Young is the absolute personification of how Ferguson made a ****ing meal of our European dominance.

I don't dislike the man, but he should be nowhere near our club and it's amazing hes stayed aslong as he has.

I think that has been one of the biggest problems since the last few years of fergies reigns. theres been far too many players who can be decent players but not too the standard of were united strives to be. Fergie was able to get the most out of them but the next two just couldnt.

Trigger

brinty wrote: »

Dave, for me he's not top 20 never mind 12, i don't have a huge and in depth knowledge of european defenders and i'm sure i've missed some out so no he's not a top 20 for me. And at present Bailly is probably better than him.

This is a huge symptom of whats wrong at Manchester United and with some of the supporters. Settling on someone like Chris Smalling and believing he's one of the best defenders in Europe.

Heavens above, taxi for me if this is what we're being reduced too

What is your knowledge of Bailly outside of the 7 games he has played for us?

You keep saying that he is not good enough for a team with Champions league aspirations.. well he is definitely better than Jeremy feckin Mathieu, who started the majority of Barcelonas games en route to winning the Champions League in 2014/2015.

He's up there with Pepe who did the same in 2016

Better than Dante who was at the heart of Bayern defence in 2013

He is definitely better than both David Luiz and Gary Cahill who played the Champions League final for Chelsea in 2012

domrush

There's no way Smalling is in the top 10 defenders in Europe lads

0gac3yjefb5sv7

TheDoc wrote: »

Young is the absolute personification of how Ferguson made a ****ing meal of our European dominance.

I don't dislike the man, but he should be nowhere near our club and it's amazing hes stayed aslong as he has.

Plenty of worse squad players to get rid off! Young has great attitude, works hard. Definitely a great asset to have. Depay on the other hand is a lazy as ****, seems to get pissed off when he doesn't score on his first shot.

brinty

astradave wrote: »

What is your knowledge of Bailly outside of the 7 games he has played for us?

You keep saying that he is not good enough for a team with Champions league aspirations.. well he is definitely better than Jeremy feckin Mathieu, who started the majority of Barcelonas games en route to winning the Champions League in 2014/2015.

He's up there with Pepe who did the same in 2016

Better than Dante who was at the heart of Bayern defence in 2013

He is definitely better than both David Luiz and Gary Cahill who played the Champions League final for Chelsea in 2012

so because he's better than all those players we shouldn't try and improve the team, well ok

As i say i don't agree with idea he's upper ecehlon of defenders in Europe or close to it. Several of the OP's on this page think he is.

I've said i'm in the minority on this. Lets just agree to disagree.

beno619

TheDoc wrote: »

Young is the absolute personification of how Ferguson made a ****ing meal of our European dominance.

I don't dislike the man, but he should be nowhere near our club and it's amazing hes stayed aslong as he has.

brinty wrote: »

Dave, for me he's not top 20 never mind 12, i don't have a huge and in depth knowledge of european defenders and i'm sure i've missed some out so no he's not a top 20 for me. And at present Bailly is probably better than him.

This is a huge symptom of whats wrong at Manchester United and with some of the supporters. Settling on someone like Chris Smalling and believing he's one of the best defenders in Europe.

Heavens above, taxi for me if this is what we're being reduced too

Its ironic that some of the most adamant LVG supporters are coming out with this sort of stuff.

Standards have dropped mainly due to LVG who turned a blip under Moyes into form.

Young and Smalling would be near the top of the list of consistent performers over the past 3 years.

bucketybuck

brinty wrote: »

so because he's better than all those players we shouldn't try and improve the team, well ok

So who should we replace him with?

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

Ashley Young was one of the best wingers in the league when we signed him.

Ah go away

09_09_09

beno619 wrote: »

Half the players you listed are inferior to Smalling defensively.

Hummels & Pique are lovely footballers same as the Spurs players but aren't as solid as Smalling.

Spurs fan here - Beno, I'd be grateful if you could let me know what rationale you used for this opinion? I'm just curious that's all.

TheDoc

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Plenty of worse squad players to get rid off! Young has great attitude, works hard. Definitely a great asset to have. Depay on the other hand is a lazy as ****, seems to get pissed off when he doesn't score on his first shot.

Not many squad players sitting around getting £110k a week, I'd have thought someone like that would be one of the first to be cutting lose.

Like I said I don't dislike him. But I've never rated him, feel he is a reminder of a monumental failure, and I'd be putting more faith in the likes of a Memphis or Martial or Fosu Mensah then Young.

And considering you finished off with that wonderful myth about Depay being a lazy ****. Martial's work effort was just the same if not worse last season, but he was forgiven for scoring a few goals.

There is no issue with Memphis attitude or work ethic on the pitch. What there was, was a clear issue with confidence and frustration that he was not doing what he knows he can.

I'm constantly baffled how people can write off clearly talented players like Memphis and so many others down the years, but will happily stand buy people like Young and Carrick. It's like if you are at the club for 5+ years you get a pass on receiving criticism for not being good enough.

TheDoc

beno619 wrote: »

Its ironic that to of the most adamant LVG supporters are coming out with this sort of stuff.

Standards have dropped mainly due to LVG who turned a blip under Moyes into form.

Young and Smalling would be near the top of the list of consistent performers over the past 3 years.

To be clear, I'm not involved in the Smalling discussion, as I believe to consider him anything other then an excellent defender is utter nonsense and not worth entertaining.

And there is nothing ironic about what you have quoted from me. Van Gaal made terrific signings, he just made a bags of making the team work. There was no issue with any signing he made, at the time of signing.

Ferguson utterly ruined our chances of becoming a real superpower, for what reason I'd say we will never know. Plenty of myths and conspiracies that the club didn't have the money, and Fergie was forced to work with scraps during the glazer early years.

I don't believe that for a second, and think he just took his eye of the ball and didn't realise the opportunity that presented itself.

If I'm not mistaken we paid about £20m for Young, who came in with De Gea and Jones. That season we got knocked out of the CL in the group stages and finished runner up in the league.

Pro. F

brinty wrote: »

Dave, for me he's not top 20 never mind 12, i don't have a huge and in depth knowledge of european defenders and i'm sure i've missed some out so no he's not a top 20 for me. And at present Bailly is probably better than him.

Who are your top 20?

TheDoc

09_09_09 wrote: »

Spurs fan here - Beno, I'd be grateful if you could let me know what rationale you used for this opinion? I'm just curious that's all.

Actually just thinking of Spurs reading back on the Smalling stuff.

Best CB pairing in the league, potentially Europe.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

To be clear, I'm not involved in the Smalling discussion, as I believe to consider him anything other then an excellent defender is utter nonsense and not worth entertaining.

And there is nothing ironic about what you have quoted from me. Van Gaal made terrific signings, he just made a bags of making the team work. There was no issue with any signing he made, at the time of signing.

Ferguson utterly ruined our chances of becoming a real superpower, for what reason I'd say we will never know. Plenty of myths and conspiracies that the club didn't have the money, and Fergie was forced to work with scraps during the glazer early years.

I don't believe that for a second, and think he just took his eye of the ball and didn't realise the opportunity that presented itself.

If I'm not mistaken we paid about £20m for Young, who came in with De Gea and Jones. That season we got knocked out of the CL in the group stages and finished runner up in the league.

Ah would you stop. He was the best manager any of us will ever see at United and he finished with yet another league win. Buying Ashley Young and all the other players he bought in his last few years was exactly in line with the behaviour that brought him all the success he had throughout his career.

Yes it would have been nice to have become the European super power, but to say that Ferguson ruined our chances and took his eye off the ball is a ridiculous overstatement. You've lost sight of the realities of football (because of all the success that Fergie did bring) if you think a league win can happen when a manager has taken his eye off the ball.

sky88

TheDoc wrote: »

Actually just thinking of Spurs reading back on the Smalling stuff.

Best CB pairing in the league, potentially Europe.

No idea why more of the bigger clubs did not go in for alderweireld after his season with southhampton. i know pochettino was a big draw for him but still i think spurs got him relatively cheaply for 15m

Jayop

TheDoc wrote: »

Ah go away

He was in the team of the season when we bought him so regardless of your opinion he clearly was one of the best wingers in the league when we bought him.

I'm someone that never wanted to buy him but even I knew that then and now it now.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

Ah would you stop. He was the best manager any of us will ever see at United and he finished with yet another league win. Buying Ashley Young and all the other players he bought in his last few years was exactly in line with the behaviour that brought him all the success he had throughout his career.

Yes it would have been nice to have become the European super power, but to say that Ferguson ruined our chances and took his eye off the ball is a ridiculous overstatement. You've lost sight of the realities of football (because of all the success that Fergie did bring) if you think a league win can happen when a manager has taken his eye off the ball.

I don't believe it is. Look at every season we didn't win the league and it was preceded with a massively underwhelming transfer window.

Proceeded it was then a stronger window where we then won the league back.

Of course its tough to win back to backs, but I don't feel it's a stretch to say in the years in the 00's we failed to retain titles, Ferguson got comfortable with the squads and misjudged some prospects, that allowed our rivals to then capitalise.

And I don't think it's an overstatement at all. We had a period of 3 champions league finals in like 4 years, that power that brings to a club to attract the top players should have been capitalised on much more then it was.

You know its perfectly fine to accept the greatest manager in our clubs history wasn't infallible and made mistakes. And he is not and never was immune from critique

TheDoc

Jayop wrote: »

He was in the team of the season when we bought him so regardless of your opinion he clearly was one of the best wingers in the league when we bought him.

I'm someone that never wanted to buy him but even I knew that then and now it now.

Maybe I'm just recalling my surprise at the move at the time.

Nani was playing pretty well, Gareth Bale was emerging as a massive talent playing on the wing, Mario Gotze was tearing up the Bundesliga from out wide, Eden Hazard was making waves with Lille, Neymar was starting to gather massive hype, Alexis Sanchez has just had a storming season for Udinese.

Young always for me felt like to me we signed a one season wonder, and I've never really changed my opinion on that. Little flashes here and there where you think its coming and then it just doesn't.

He just felt a massively underwhelming and unusual signing. Where if I'm not mistaken, Ferguson was telling everyone how we still have the Ronaldo money to spend.

v3ttel

I just spotted the Klopp/Mourinho anniversary thread. I'm starting to think it's part of an experiment to see how much a single poster can embarrass themselves in a given period of time.

beno619

09_09_09 wrote: »

Spurs fan here - Beno, I'd be grateful if you could let me know what rationale you used for this opinion? I'm just curious that's all.

They're a great pairing alright.

It wasn't so long ago that Vertongen couldnt get into the side. Both still have a bit to prove. Will be interesting to see how you guys get on the CL proper.

I wouldn't be going around proclaiming them the best in Europe.

Rayne Wooney

If you say someone isn't top 10 it should be fairly easy to name 10 better players than them.

The quality of centre backs in the league isn't great, if we were given the chance to swap Smalling with another player in the league how long would the list be?

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

I don't believe it is. Look at every season we didn't win the league and it was preceded with a massively underwhelming transfer window.

Proceeded it was then a stronger window where we then won the league back.

Of course its tough to win back to backs, but I don't feel it's a stretch to say in the years in the 00's we failed to retain titles, Ferguson got comfortable with the squads and misjudged some prospects, that allowed our rivals to then capitalise.

Like when we won the league in 06/07 after the window where our only purchase was Michael Carrick? Or 00/01 where we bought nobody and then went on to win the league?

The correlation between good transfer windows and league wins that you are basing this on is not there.

TheDoc wrote: »

And I don't think it's an overstatement at all. We had a period of 3 champions league finals in like 4 years, that power that brings to a club to attract the top players should have been capitalised on much more then it was.

You know its perfectly fine to accept the greatest manager in our clubs history wasn't infallible and made mistakes. And he is not and never was immune from critique

Of course it's fine to criticise Ferguson. I had plenty of complaints myself about his way of building squads. But to describe his actions in his last few seasons as having utterly ruined our chances of becoming a European super power and having taken his eye off the ball is beyond exaggeration. It is simply wrong.

Julez

v3ttel wrote: »

I just spotted the Klopp/Mourinho anniversary thread. I'm starting to think it's part of an experiment to see how much a single poster can embarrass themselves in a given period of time.

Wow. Just, wow.

Billy86

They're also very good yet but great, but If Vertonghen or Alderweireld (or Koscielny) played for us and Smalling for their team, I reckon the same people giving out about him in favour of them, would be giving out about them in favour of him. EDIT TO ADD: Vertonghen and Ald do combine very well as a tandem, though.

He's no world beater, but he is a good and solid defender.

Billy86

TheDoc wrote: »

Ah go away

Well... he was and he wasn't. He had a good number of goals and assists, but he played in a Villa team that loved to sit very deep and blast it up to him. Because it was Villa and not a bigger team (like us), the opposition tended to happily move near everyone forward when attacking them so he had bags of space he was never, ever going to get at Old Trafford. And because it was Villa, both in terms of expectations and style of play fans and the media were far, far more forgiving to him when he wasted possession or went invisible for some/most/all of a match - which wasn't very rare.

I wasn't a fan of the signing at the time, and yet he has still fallen short of expectations. He's not awful as a squad player but not all that good either - us resigning him was mystifying to me if I'm honest. And I agree with the assessment that he is a shining example of Fergie's transfers in his last several years undermining all the great work he did putting that 2006-11 (or so) team, quite possibly the best in the club's history - together.

I also think people defending him as a good player for us, or a 'great squad player' is a solid example of just how much expectations dropped in the last half decade, not only among those at the club but the fans as well. I don't hate the guy, he seems to be quite mature and professional - not in the news very often, a bit of a heads-down type, and never really makes noise about wanting more playing time or being used out of position. I do actually credit him for that because I think it's a very important mindset to have in your more peripheral players for squad harmony etc and seemed a big sticking point of Ferguson's (Brown, O'Shea, Fletcher, Park all being good examples from that 2006-11 team). But at the end of the day, he's just not really a Man United player, if we want to be where we can be.

Pro. F

Deleted User wrote: »

I liked the bit where he said he had a bad game via Watford, If only someone had shown the poor lad his heat maps and passing stats after the game he might have known he ACTUALLY played well. poor lad

No, he'd actually realise he played bad in the second half, just like he said.

Billy86

v3ttel wrote: »

I just spotted the Klopp/Mourinho anniversary thread. I'm starting to think it's part of an experiment to see how much a single poster can embarrass themselves in a given period of time.

Look, they're a whole 3 points (and 3 GD) ahead of us as far on in the season as the October international break. It doesn't happen often. Let them have their moment.

Pro. F

Billy86 wrote: »

Well... he was and he wasn't. He had a good number of goals and assists, but he played in a Villa team that loved to sit very deep and blast it up to him. Because it was Villa and not a bigger team (like us), the opposition tended to happily move near everyone forward when attacking them so he had bags of space he was never, ever going to get at Old Trafford. And because it was Villa, both in terms of expectations and style of play fans and the media were far, far more forgiving to him when he wasted possession or went invisible for some/most/all of a match - which wasn't very rare.

I wasn't a fan of the signing at the time, and yet he has still fallen short of expectations. He's not awful as a squad player but not all that good either - us resigning him was mystifying to me if I'm honest. And I agree with the assessment that he is a shining example of Fergie's transfers in his last several years undermining all the great work he did putting that 2006-11 (or so) team, quite possibly the best in the club's history - together.

I also think people defending him as a good player for us, or a 'great squad player' is a solid example of just how much expectations dropped in the last half decade, not only among those at the club but the fans as well. I don't hate the guy, he seems to be quite mature and professional - not in the news very often, a bit of a heads-down type, and never really makes noise about wanting more playing time or being used out of position. I do actually credit him for that because I think it's a very important mindset to have in your more peripheral players for squad harmony etc and seemed a big sticking point of Ferguson's (Brown, O'Shea, Fletcher, Park all being good examples from that 2006-11 team). But at the end of the day, he's just not really a Man United player, if we want to be where we can be.

If you were happy to have O'Shea and Park in the squad then you should be happy with Young too. He is of a similar quality and, as you say, he has the same good attitude that is important.

With regards to Fergie's transfers over his last few years, in his last three seasons he brought in: Smalling, Hernandez, DDG, Van Persie and Kagawa. That is a really good group of quality players. He also brought in exciting young prospects like Jones and Zaha, who didn't work out for reasons beyond his control.

It really is a reach to say that those transfer windows were anything worse than his usual ones. They certainly weren't bad transfer windows when viewed as a whole.

Flint Fredstone

v3ttel wrote: »

I just spotted the Klopp/Mourinho anniversary thread. I'm starting to think it's part of an experiment to see how much a single poster can embarrass themselves in a given period of time.

And he'll be in here the next time telling us he's only having a serious discussion...

The funny thing is, Klopp had a worse start with Liverpool than Mourinho is having with United, also on the back of a disastrous campaign with Dortmund.
The situations are fairly similar but 7 games into the season Jose is wrote off :pac:
There's a word for it but we're not allowed say it.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

Ah go away

Pfa team of the year 2 years in a row is the facts. He scored and created goals regularly with villa.

Cookie_Dough

bangkok wrote: »

Pfa team of the year 2 years in a row is the facts. He scored and created goals regularly with villa.

He's also the only player to win the Premier League Player of the Month award 3 times in one calendar year :eek:

sky88

Young is just one of those players that looked great at a smaller team but when you put him in a better team hes just average.

bangkok

sky88 wrote: »

Young is just one of those players that looked great at a smaller team but when you put him in a better team hes just average.

And smalling is one of those players who looks good in a good team or bad team

bucketybuck

sky88 wrote: »

Young is just one of those players that looked great at a smaller team but when you put him in a better team hes just average.

Ashley Young is now in his 6th season at the club, at age 31 he has spent his prime years as a footballer at a club that wins far more games than it loses. After 5 years in his prime he has 14 goals in 145 games. That includes 8 goals in his first season, goals scored in his last 4 seasons read 1, 2, 3, 0.

There isn't even a debate, he is worth keeping as a squad player but he was never at any point productive enough to be considered good enough for the Manchester United first eleven.

Billy86

Pro. F wrote: »

If you were happy to have O'Shea and Park in the squad then you should be happy with Young too. He is of a similar quality and, as you say, he has the same good attitude that is important.

With regards to Fergie's transfers over his last few years, in his last three seasons he brought in: Smalling, Hernandez, DDG, Van Persie and Kagawa. That is a really good group of quality players. He also brought in exciting young prospects like Jones and Zaha, who didn't work out for reasons beyond his control.

The difference between O'Shea and Park when compared to Young is that they came in cheap, and were not needed to start whereas Young was seen as a starting player and cost about £17mn, apparently with wages of £100k. Added to that O'Shea was brought into the club as an academy player, while Park gave us something completely different which often came in very handy, particularly against Arsenal time and again. The level of player we were getting in as youth teamers and back up players previous, we were at this point buying in as starters - Valencia is another good example. We went from Giggs & Ronaldo on the wings, or popping Rooney or Tevez out there due to how many options we had (with Park and Nani also as options)... to Valencia and Ashley Young being the planned starting wings within the space of 3-4 years.

The Kagawa signing didn't work out (sadly, I loved Shinji), Phil Jones is not good enough for his level, and Zaha is a mid-table player... not sure how or why you'd bring him up?

It really is a reach to say that those transfer windows were anything worse than his usual ones. They certainly weren't bad transfer windows when viewed as a whole.

Actually, no.

Signings over £1mn, 2008-12...
DDG - excellent signing.
RVP - excellent signing.
Smalling - good signing.
Hernandez - good squad player.
Kagawa - good player, but mis/under-used.
Jones - not good enough for this level
Valencia - OK squad player, not worth the money.
Young - OK player, squaddie at best, not worth the money.
Zaha - not good enough for this level
Berbatov - good player but a poor fit, not worth the money.
Bebe - poor signing.
Buttner - poor signing.
Henriquez - poor signing.
Powell - poor signing.
Obertan - poor signing.
Diouf - poor signing.
Tosic - poor signing.

Signings over £1mn, 2002-06...
Ronaldo - amazing signing, one of the best in the club's entire history.
Ferdinand - amazing signing, one of the best in the club's entire history.
Rooney - excellent signing, despite the last few years.
VDS - excellent signing.
Evra - excellent signing.
Vidic - excellent signing.
Carrick - very good player.
Saha - very good player, could have been an excellent signing but ruined with injuries.
Heinze - very good player, could have been an excellent signing but ruined with injuries and 'the Liverpool incident'.
Park - good squad player.
Alan Smith - OK player, squad player, not a bad price.
Howard - OK player but not starting quality.
Ricardo - poor signing.
Kleberson - poor signing.
Djemba-Djemba - poor signing.
Bellion - poor signing.

Meanwhile, the midfield and wings were left to get worse and worse while we missed out on (if we were even in for) several players who would have been of massive benefit there despite Ferguson's. At the same time we neglected the likes of Pogba to the point he just left, and it showed in the quality of the teams at the beginning and end of that cycle.

It's a testament to Ferguson's ability to manage a squad that he kept them winning for the last year or two, but his transfer dealings in the last few years were simply not very good.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Still waiting on Scud's story of the week.:(

0gac3yjefb5sv7

TheDoc wrote: »

Not many squad players sitting around getting £110k a week, I'd have thought someone like that would be one of the first to be cutting lose.

Like I said I don't dislike him. But I've never rated him, feel he is a reminder of a monumental failure, and I'd be putting more faith in the likes of a Memphis or Martial or Fosu Mensah then Young.

And considering you finished off with that wonderful myth about Depay being a lazy ****. Martial's work effort was just the same if not worse last season, but he was forgiven for scoring a few goals.

There is no issue with Memphis attitude or work ethic on the pitch. What there was, was a clear issue with confidence and frustration that he was not doing what he knows he can.

I'm constantly baffled how people can write off clearly talented players like Memphis and so many others down the years, but will happily stand buy people like Young and Carrick. It's like if you are at the club for 5+ years you get a pass on receiving criticism for not being good enough.

How is it a myth of Depay not working his ass off. You can see it, comes on in the 80th min and looks more tired than the players who started the game!

Pro. F

Pheonix10 wrote: »

How is it a myth of Depay not working his ass off. You can see it, comes on in the 80th min and looks more tired than the players who started the game!

I have never seen anything like what you are talking about from him.

sReq | uTeK

Pro. F wrote: »

I have never seen anything like what you are talking about from him.

Yea nor I. It's also hard to do anything of worth with 10 minutes of game time very 2nd or 3rd game