Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

Mantis Toboggan

brinty wrote: »

Yes 0-0 draws can be frustrating but what would you preferred all out attack and a tonking,because it could've happened.
Christ the Liverpool lads would've loved that.. why do you think they're bemoaning our style of play??? Because it's not hoe they wanted it of course,they wanted attack attack attack

You see Liverpool couldn't string two passes together for large parts of the game, they're extremely average. Do you not think that we have the players to play positive football and win?

mewe

Each to their own but I'm surprised how annoyed some people are with last nights game. I enjoyed the game myself and thought we were in control for large parts of it. The crowd and klopp were not happy for a reason.

I read an article in the Irish Times last week saying how mourinho is a manager with old ideas and more or less done whereas klopp is the new era and mourinho is unable to compete with him and I thought what a load of absolute rubbish, to create a narrative and sell papers.

Mourinho got his tactics spot on for me last night and the team were disciplined and did their job well. We were the away team at anfield playing a Liverpool team who have been playing well and aren't pushovers. A point gained and the manner in which we earned it I thought was a credit to the manager and the team. We didn't play for the draw either. If we had capitalised on our early dominance the result may have been different.

Like other people I'm concerned about pogbas performances. He's losing the ball too much when he has a free teammate beside him. It's like rather than just do the obvious thing and release the ball, he wants to show nobody will hassle me or rush me into doing something. Doing the basics right would be a good start for him at the minute. He's shown nothing in a United shirt yet to be proud of.

Pyjamarama

Tyson Fury wrote: »

You see Liverpool couldn't string two passes together for large parts of the game, they're extremely average. Do you not think that we have the players to play positive football and win?

Where they average against Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs? United turned up to spoil the game and did to a degree. Liverpool missing Lallana and Gigi from the start really hurt their fluidity in midfield. When Lallana came on he completely changed the game, they were playing on the half turn with an effective midfield pivot. Hence DDG making two saves that he may be the only one in the league who can make.

United did what they came to do. There's nothing wrong with that. It was a different strategy to when they did similar under Fergie. He'd want them to have ten minutes where they'd put you under pressure in your 3rd near the end (usually of each half) and hope to nick a goal. United last night had zero interest in scoring. But they got their point so job done.

bucketybuck

TheDoc wrote: »

Just think it's a bit odd. Some serious quick acceptance of this, under Van Gaal it was called cowardly by some in here.

Called cowardly by some but defended for nearly two years by you. Then when Mourinho plays it tight for one game you are piously disapproving and worried about the soul of the club.

If Mourinho serves up 2 years of Van Gaal style rubbish we can call him cowardly as well, but he hasn't done that, in fact even in parking the bus last night that our passing and movement in that first half was in a different league to anything from the Van Gaal era.

adox

I'd expect it from non Utd supporters but to see some Utd supporters falling over themselves to use this game to push their agenda of "see this is what Mourhino brings, this is his football, Fergie would never do it" etc etc is disappointing.

Your objectivity and opinions on the game last night are being seriously compromised by your dislike of Mourhino and your pre conceived ideas about him.

irishfeen

Am I one of the only ones who are actually delighted with the result and performance - not only have the players finally bought into Jose's tactics for certain games but more importantly Jose now realises the qualities and deficiencies.

Liverpool totally outclassed Chelsea and Arsenal - with us at home they were suppressed to just 2 chances... I heard fans of Liverpool and other clubs during not only predicting they wouldn't win but actually talking about 2/3/4 - 0

A bit of perspective is needed Liverpool had won 5 in a row and playing the best stuff in the PL - we weren't hanging on even and we could have even bagged a sneaaaky win had the big man put the header away.

Take the point and keep building momentum.

Nalz

I didn't miss the game but im telling everyone in work I am, United, Liverpool and neutral fans.

So meh I wanna forget it

ElChe32

Was disappointed with Pogba yesterday, apart from his sublime cross to Zlatan I thought he was bang average. One three occasions that I can remember he was second to the ball when, with a little bit of effort, he could and should have gotten to the ball ahead of Henderson and Can.

Herrera was excellent.
Positionally, workrate and his reading of the game were exactly what we needed in what was going to be a difficult test for us.

I thought Blind was going to have a Stevie G moment when he gave the ball away at half way.

And feckin' hats off to Tony V last night.

ericzeking

adox wrote: »

I'd expect it from non Utd supporters but to see some Utd supporters falling over themselves to use this game to push their agenda of "see this is what Mourhino brings, this is his football, Fergie would never do it" etc etc is disappointing.

Your objectivity and opinions on the game last night are being seriously compromised by your dislike of Mourhino and your pre conceived ideas about him.

I would counter that by saying that it disappoints me to see United fans who have a hard on for Mourinho, a man who we hated and ridiculed for so many years.

Trigger

ericzeking wrote: »

I would counter that by saying that it disappoints me to see United fans who have a hard on for Mourinho, a man who we hated and ridiculed for so many years.

Maybe a fair few of these fans didn't hate or ridicule Jose and actually wanted him to be United manager back when Fergie retired..

The_Kew_Tour

Like I say I would much rather we play a all out counter attacking fantastic style of football. But last night was no different to way we have played Chelsea and City under Fergie for his decade.(in good few games away)

Look at it from Jose point of view. Play wide open, get beat and then real pressure is on Sunday. Last night United got a positive result and go into Sunday with more confidence.

People are missing the bigger picture

crkball6

Nalz wrote: »

I didn't miss the game but im telling everyone in work I am, United, Liverpool and neutral fans.

So meh I wanna forget it

I know Lord TSC hates this line of thought but I really wish more people on this forum actually played football or at least watched it properly.

This was a fascinating game. Just take the half an hour Liverpool looked utterly bemused, lost, no ideas, no invention, no creativity, second to every ball and by the end of a game reduced to a long range shot and the "flukey" bobble in the box.

This is team who have been all week talking about how little fear they have of united and the fans were not talking about if they were going to win but by how many.

This was a master class from mou and people forget quickly how often Sir Alex played players like park,Fletcher,l Neville and even O Shea in the middle. etc in these types of games and pretty much shut up shop.

People keep saying but liverpool were awful and couldn't pass we should have outplayed them. They were awful and couldn't pass because they were the ones been pressed rather than the other way around and if ibra puts in the sitter everyone on here today talking about what a genius Jose is.

He frustrated klopp so much klopp named and shamed players in his sky interview for making mistakes. Something he _never_ does apparently. Will there be pages written today in the news paper about this as there was mou talking about shaw? unlikely.

This was a great point and could easily have been 3 and the reason it wasn't 3 is nothing to do with Jose.

Lord TSC

irishfeen wrote: »

Am I one of the only ones who are actually delighted with the result and performance

Delighted? No. But, and its the word Jose used himself, it was an acceptable result given the conditions involved. I won't celebrate a draw, but I do think it was acceptable as a result last night.

ElChe32 wrote: »

Was disappointed with Pogba yesterday, apart from his sublime cross to Zlatan I thought he was bang average.

He had a very quiet game. That said, it's two games in a row now where he's set up a goal on a platter for Ibra and Ibra let him down with the finish. Had Ibra scored those two, everyone would be falling over themselves about how great Pogba's passing is.

ericzeking

astradave wrote: »

ericzeking wrote: »

I would counter that by saying that it disappoints me to see United fans who have a hard on for Mourinho, a man who we hated and ridiculed for so many years.

Maybe a fair few of these fans didn't hate or ridicule Jose and actually wanted him to be United manager back when Fergie retired..

Maybe

Maximus Alexander

Honestly going into the game last night I was pretty certain Liverpool were going to leave us all embarrassed. United went in and took the sting out of the game, quietened the crowd early on, and left Liverpool looking disarrayed for most of the 90 minutes. In the end the game was there for the taking and it's a shame to only come away with a draw, but given I already felt defeated going into the match I'm fairly satisfied with the outcome.

Cantona's Collars

"65% possession with 2 shots,that's their problem, not ours". Jose.

Korat

ericzeking wrote: »

I would counter that by saying that it disappoints me to see United fans who have a hard on for Mourinho, a man who we hated and ridiculed for so many years.

Yeah it's shocking, nearly as bad as all those fake United fans who celebrated the title we won thanks to RVP. What a cnut he was. He was accused of rape ffs. It's amazing how some people can conveniently change their opinions just because they're on your side now.

bucketybuck

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Like I say I would much rather we play a all out counter attacking fantastic style of football.

What last night showed is that we don't actually have the players for counter attacking, we showed we can control the game and soak up pressure but we don't have the pace and strength to blast forward. Another reason why 90 million or whatever would have been better spent on a Bale than a Pogba.

crkball6 wrote: »

This was a fascinating game. Just take the half an hour Liverpool looked utterly bemused, lost, no ideas, no invention, no creativity, second to every ball and by the end of a game reduced to a long range shot and the "flukey" bobble in the box.

I thought we were utterly brilliant in the first 35 minutes, we completely dominated them, first to every ball and some fantastically crisp passing. A better front 3 and we would have been dangerous.

Leroy42

Time for Zlatan to be dropped. He has been on a poor run and it would make more sense to bring Rooney in to lead the attack to give him a rest and give Rooney a chance to get back to scoring.

With all due respect to Rooney, bringing him on with 20 minutes to go and asking him to cover left back is a total waste, no doubt he is up for it but it never was, never mind now, his position.

And Pogba better start getting out of this funk he is in. I don't mind that he is not killing the league yet, but get stuck in. He is nearly always just slightly off where the ball is going.

magnumbud

Leroy42 wrote: »

Time for Zlatan to be dropped. He has been on a poor run and it would make more sense to bring Rooney in to lead the attack to give him a rest and give Rooney a chance to get back to scoring.

ah hear with all due respect neither of them should be playing by that logic the form striker is rashford and he should be leading the line and not out on right wing

asteroids over berlin

far cry away from the utd of old. Classic Jose tactics - he needs a Drogba, Lampard, Terry combo to be successful. Dismal boring stuff. good luck to ye

Lovely Bloke

asteroids over berlin wrote: »

far cry away from the utd of old. Classic Jose tactics - he needs a Drogba, Lampard, Terry combo to be successful. Dismal boring stuff. good luck to ye

Trigger

asteroids over berlin wrote: »

far cry away from the utd of old. Classic Jose tactics - he needs a Drogba, Lampard, Terry combo to be successful. Dismal boring stuff. good luck to ye

MagicIRL

What's the story with Mhkitaryn?

He was injured, or recently recovered, any idea when we get to see him given a chance to impress?

hufpc8w3adnk65

zerks wrote: »

"65% possession with 2 shots,that's their problem, not ours". Jose.

Flash backs to LVG managing us and the games where we won the possession points but not the actual 3 points

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

I'd expect it from non Utd supporters but to see some Utd supporters falling over themselves to use this game to push their agenda of "see this is what Mourhino brings, this is his football, Fergie would never do it" etc etc is disappointing.

Your objectivity and opinions on the game last night are being seriously compromised by your dislike of Mourhino and your pre conceived ideas about him.

Actually offensive that you think some of us aren't intelligent enough to critique last night based on what clearly happened on the pitch, as opposed to having dislike for the manager.

I'm fully entitled to be disappointed, if not a little bit embarrassed, about how Mourinho went about that game last night.

you know there is a reason there will be such strong and stark defence of that performance from people this week...

TheDoc

MrMac84 wrote: »

Flash backs to LVG managing us and the games where we won the possession points but not the actual 3 points

LVG played four and won four against Liverpool in the league :cool:

bucketybuck

TheDoc wrote: »

Actually offensive that you think some of us aren't intelligent enough to critique last night based on what clearly happened on the pitch, as opposed to having dislike for the manager.

This was your post before the game had even started...

TheDoc wrote: »

This needs to go well or I'll slaughter Mourinho. Not happy with how this is shaping up and already annoyed over his comments on the referee.

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

This was your post before the game had even started...

Am I slaughtering Mourinho?

I'm displaying my discontent at what he did, which is perfectly acceptable and I'm hardly calling for his head.

And at least I'm being consistent on my thoughts and feelings on that tactic he deploys, which is more then I can say for some in here who had a very different outlook on things when we lost at Stamford bridge in Van Gaals first season and Mourinho deployed a similar tactic. But that's fine, people can change their opinion and thoughts. I'm just not really happy seeing something like that, and feel it's a potential missed opportunity for a big statement and a real kick start.

IT's cool though we play Burnley in like three weeks, we can look at maybe picking up 3 points there after we go draw at Stamford bridge and bring City to penos in the cup : /

Lovely Bloke

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm fully entitled to be disappointed, if not a little bit embarrassed, about how Mourinho went about that game last night.

Embarrassed?

How can a grown man be embarrassed by a football match?

Are you alright?

You certainly exude a sense of entitlement alright.

Jesus wept.

crkball6

TheDoc wrote: »

if not a little bit embarrassed, about how Mourinho went about that game last night.

sky88

For all the talk in here about the style of play under LVG a lot of posters seem fine with the less attacking play from Jose. For all LVG's faults he was quite good record against the big teams.

I know this is what you get from Jose and its what i expect from him against the big teams and hes not going to change for anyone. Tbh i think we have to get used to that style of play.

raze_them_all_

I still have no clue how Ibra missed that header

crkball6

sky88 wrote: »

For all the talk in here about the style of play under LVG a lot of posters seem fine with the less attacking play from Jose. For all LVG's faults he was quite good record against the big teams.

But he wasn't great against WBA/Leicester. It's irrelevant. You can't take specific games in a vacuum like that.

Last night was very team specific and as has been mentioned numerous times. Sir Alex did the exact same thing many many times. People forget this because they're under the illusion united play free flowing "sexy" football.

We've played like this against Arsenal/Liverpool/Chelsea/Barca/ etc for nearly 30 years, Why would it we suddenly go to Anfield and turn into Real Madrid?

The performance last night was what was needed at this time under these circumstances. It's not a blue print for every match for the rest of the season.

StringerBell

He was trying to direct it back the way it came, beyond the keeper into the far corner and got too much on it.

bucketybuck

sky88 wrote: »

For all the talk in here about the style of play under LVG a lot of posters seem fine with the less attacking play from Jose. For all LVG's faults he was quite good record against the big teams.

A lot of posters can't seem to grasp the difference between Van Gaal playing turgid crap for an extended period of time and Mourinho playing defensive in a situation where it was wholly appropriate to play defensive.

If Mourinhos team plays like that in every game for the next six months then I will criticise him just as much as the next man, but moaning about it today is just ignoring context due to preconceptions.

crkball6

bucketybuck wrote: »

A lot of posters can't seem to grasp the difference between Van Gaal playing turgid crap for an extended period of time and Mourinho playing defensive in a situation where it was wholly appropriate to play defensive.

If Mourinhos team plays like that in every game for the next six months then I will criticise him just as much as the next man, but moaning about it today is just ignoring context due to preconceptions.

It's mind boggling that people can't grasp this.

I almost feel like if we lost 4-3 last night united fans would be delighted.

Liam McPoyle

So we still have Shaw to come back in, Mikhi and Tony M too weren't even in the squad last night.

That's two wonderful attacking talents and an attack minded FB.

I think we will be ok.

hufpc8w3adnk65

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

I still have no clue how Ibra missed that header

When I seen it in real time I said "what a save" thinking the keeper got a toe to it

Lord TSC

crkball6 wrote: »

It's mind boggling that people can't grasp this.

I almost feel like if we lost 4-3 last night united fans would be delighted.

Nah, the issue is that some people are actively looking for an excuse to bash Jose. If it wasn't that, it would be something else....

bangkok

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

I still have no clue how Ibra missed that header

Wasn't exactly an easy chance

TheDoc

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

Embarrassed?

How can a grown man be embarrassed by a football match?

Are you alright?

You certainly exude a sense of entitlement alright.

Jesus wept.

Because I'm passionate about the team I follow.

Don't treat me like a Liverpool fan who came in for a cry please, it's insulting.

sReq | uTeK

Wow, can't believe some of the posts on here. For the 1st 25 minutes we were top class, we played Liverpool at their own game, there was no parking of any buses, there was however rigorous pressing.

I can't remember Liverpool getting out of their half without the use of a long ball. We played some decent football in that 1st half considering the context of the game.

2nd half we settled for the win and ultimately contained them. They were limited to a 30 yard shot and a pop shot from Can.

Mourinho has always won leagues by being tight in the big games and blowing away lesser competition. Sadly as bigger games get more coverage the mentality is that he's a defensive coach.

The fact that he has outscored Barcelona in his tenure as madrid coach and regularly topped the goals scored in the premier league when winning his titles with Chelsea goes un-noticed.

A loss last night would have set united back a significant amount when added to the 3 in a row recently, a draw here allows Mourinho to spin it as a win, he's under no obligation to go to Anfield where Liverpool have been rampant and get a win. However Klopp is, and whilst he's blown away team after team at Anfield this year his team failed last night.

Liam McPoyle

bangkok wrote: »

Wasn't exactly an easy chance

Even at that angle, 1 v 1 with the keeper, one would have expected someone like Ibra to get it on target.

sReq | uTeK

TheDoc wrote: »

Because I'm passionate about the team I follow.

Don't treat me like a Liverpool fan who came in for a cry please, it's insulting.

Passion, is understandable, but embarrassment that a bit of a stretch. It suggests you'd have trouble looking a fellow footballing man in the eye due to the result. That does seem a bit much :P

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

Nah, the issue is that some people are actively looking for an excuse to bash Jose. If it wasn't that, it would be something else....

Total nonsense, and I can't believe how some of you are justifying it. Some of the people that slaughtered Moyes for his City comment, slaughtered Van Gaal for his style of play.

But I guess once we "do one" over Liverpool, just everything is acceptable and fine. If Van Gaal did that this thread would be on fire this morning from the meltdown.

This has nothing to do with Jose personally, there is literally no surprise at how he played that game last night. Does not mean it cannot be questioned or disagreed with?

And as I said, there is such staunch defence of it because you all know deep down it's impressing no one and it's disappointing. I just seem to be one of a few willing to openly flaunt it.

But please don't try tar it all as an anti-Mourinho agenda.

What's probably annoying me more about the whole situation is just how flippant and basically hypocritical some people are being considering the outrage here when we lost at Stamford bridge to the same tactic, the comments in here when Mourinho did that to Anfield to derail their title bid and how people labelled far more adventurous Van Gaal setups are being "cowardly".

It's disappointing to see even the likes of me, a longtime poster here and United fan, being treated and replied to as if I was a Liverpool fan coming in having a whinge.

ElChe32

ElChe32 wrote: »

Was disappointed with Pogba yesterday, apart from his sublime cross to Zlatan I thought he was bang average. One three occasions that I can remember he was second to the ball when, with a little bit of effort, he could and should have gotten to the ball ahead of Henderson and Can.

Herrera was excellent.
Positionally, workrate and his reading of the game were exactly what we needed in what was going to be a difficult test for us.

I thought Blind was going to have a Stevie G moment when he gave the ball away at half way.

And feckin' hats off to Tony V last night.

I'm going to credit Jose
He really is getting the best out of both Herrera and Valencia
Both have positions in the first 11 solidified in my view

TheDoc

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Passion, is understandable, but embarrassment that a bit of a stretch. It suggests you'd have trouble looking a fellow footballing man in the eye due to the result. That does seem a bit much :P

It is somewhat embarrassing for the club to talk as it did pre-season, to spend the money it did, to bring in a manager who at the start of the season talked about wanting everything, to then go to one of our biggest rivals and play that style of football.

Jose is right when he said this Liverpool team are not the second coming or the new wonder of the world. They are a team in good form. A team with weaknesses, clear weaknesses and deficiencies.

I'm more embarrassed though about some of the celebratory atmosphere around this result and how it was achieved. Sorry but it is. I don't like the team playing this way, I've never liked it, I've been openly critical about Mourinho doing this in the past, and I think it's disappointing to see it happen.

I'll clearly need to accept it as a thing that will happen, but forgive me for thinking that our club and team could maybe impose themselves on games.

You know the first 30 minutes of that match I'd no issues. Hererra was an animal, Fellaini was brilliant, Pogba was neat, and we were pressing them, AT HOME. I thought Mourinho was pulling out a proper surprise, press Liverpool on their own ground. But then we didn't capitalise, and we just got deeper and deeper the the press got weaker and weaker.

Lord TSC

TheDoc wrote: »

Total nonsense, and I can't believe how some of you are justifying it. Some of the people that slaughtered Moyes for his City comment, slaughtered Van Gaal for his style of play.

The issue is that no one slaughtered LVG or Moyes for how they played in a single game, or for a single comment. It was a grand total of their failings that yielded the response they did. It was game after game after game, month after month, of their styles. Not a single game.

If Jose continues to play as he did last night over the entire season, then he too will yield that response. But given thats the first time this season we did, it's very obviously not his "philosophy". That someone can't see he set out to counter an in-form, heavily-favoured Liverpool team with a specific game plan, rather than play into their hands, is crazy.

You're trying to compare a one year and a two year tenure with a grand total of a dozen games. You're not showing any objectivity at all, and by trying to compare ONE of Jose's games with the entirity of LVG's and Moyes reigns, you're showing yourself up.

And as I said, there is such staunch defence of it because you all know deep down it's impressing no one and it's disappointing. I just seem to be one of a few willing to openly flaunt it.

Ah, Doc. Really? This self-agrandising "I'm special cause I admit what you all won't" really is beneath a poster that, over the last few years, has garnered a lot of respect from me.

You posted before the game that, quite clearly, you were looking for an excuse to give out about Jose. You had the knife unsheathed well before the game. So when after the game, you're looking to stick it into him, it lowers the value of the criticism you're offering. It's become abundantly clear you don't like Jose, or his tactics, or whatever. But when you decide to go ultra-negative, don't be shocked when people opt to roll their eyes back.

TheDoc

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

Even at that angle, 1 v 1 with the keeper, one would have expected someone like Ibra to get it on target.

Couldn't help think at the time and after the replays he was cutting the header back to someone he thought was there but wasn't.

That's me being generous for him, expecting if he was going for goal he would have hit the target. Was a no pressure header, can't fathom he could mess it up so bad if he was going for goal.