Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

MD1990

TheDoc wrote: »

Total nonsense, and I can't believe how some of you are justifying it. Some of the people that slaughtered Moyes for his City comment, slaughtered Van Gaal for his style of play.

But I guess once we "do one" over Liverpool, just everything is acceptable and fine. If Van Gaal did that this thread would be on fire this morning from the meltdown.

This has nothing to do with Jose personally, there is literally no surprise at how he played that game last night. Does not mean it cannot be questioned or disagreed with?

And as I said, there is such staunch defence of it because you all know deep down it's impressing no one and it's disappointing. I just seem to be one of a few willing to openly flaunt it.

But please don't try tar it all as an anti-Mourinho agenda.

What's probably annoying me more about the whole situation is just how flippant and basically hypocritical some people are being considering the outrage here when we lost at Stamford bridge to the same tactic, the comments in here when Mourinho did that to Anfield to derail their title bid and how people labelled far more adventurous Van Gaal setups are being "cowardly".

It's disappointing to see even the likes of me, a longtime poster here and United fan, being treated and replied to as if I was a Liverpool fan coming in having a whinge.

I have came across quite a few Man Utd fans annoyed with Mourinho.
I am surprised by how much he is defended by boards Man Utd fans. Some saying give him time but he only stays 3 years max at a club. With the money spent & big name players bought I would have thought more would have been expected from them so far but I guess they have faith they will improve as the season goes on.

beno619

TheDoc wrote: »

What's probably annoying me more about the whole situation is just how flippant and basically hypocritical some people are being considering the outrage here when we lost at Stamford bridge to the same tactic, the comments in here when Mourinho did that to Anfield to derail their title bid and how people labelled far more adventurous Van Gaal setups are being "cowardly".

When has a opposition fan ever taken being shut out well ? :rolleyes:

If we were in Chelsea's position at the time nobody on here would be complaining about our approach.

LVG served up tripe for 2 season's - Mourinho set up a side definitively once and you "embarrassed".

I was embarrassed by some of the rubbish trotted out to defend LVG last season.

Liam McPoyle

MD1990 wrote: »

I have came across quite a few Man Utd fans annoyed with Mourinho.
I am surprised by how much he is defended by boards Man Utd fans. Some saying give him time but he only stays 3 years max at a club. With the money spent & big name players bought I would have thought more would have been expected from them so far but I guess they have faith they will improve as the season goes on.

Klopp has been shown infinite patients by you lads, why shouldn't Jose get some too?

We have had 3 miserable seasons and many of the players that were involved in those are still playing today.

A winning mentality is not going to come over night.

Lovely Bloke

TheDoc wrote: »

Don't treat me like a Liverpool fan who came in for a cry please, it's insulting.

Stop acting like one then.

MD1990

MD1990 wrote: »

I have came across quite a few Man Utd fans annoyed with Mourinho.
I am surprised by how much he is defended by boards Man Utd fans. Some saying give him time but he only stays 3 years max at a club. With the money spent & big name players bought I would have thought more would have been expected from them so far but I guess they have faith they will improve as the season goes on.

How often can you continue to beat this awful repetitive drum of yours within a 24 hour period?

sReq | uTeK

TheDoc wrote: »

It is somewhat embarrassing for the club to talk as it did pre-season, to spend the money it did, to bring in a manager who at the start of the season talked about wanting everything, to then go to one of our biggest rivals and play that style of football.

Jose is right when he said this Liverpool team are not the second coming or the new wonder of the world. They are a team in good form. A team with weaknesses, clear weaknesses and deficiencies.

I'm more embarrassed though about some of the celebratory atmosphere around this result and how it was achieved. Sorry but it is. I don't like the team playing this way, I've never liked it, I've been openly critical about Mourinho doing this in the past, and I think it's disappointing to see it happen.

I'll clearly need to accept it as a thing that will happen, but forgive me for thinking that our club and team could maybe impose themselves on games.

You know the first 30 minutes of that match I'd no issues. Hererra was an animal, Fellaini was brilliant, Pogba was neat, and we were pressing them, AT HOME. I thought Mourinho was pulling out a proper surprise, press Liverpool on their own ground. But then we didn't capitalise, and we just got deeper and deeper the the press got weaker and weaker.

But we do impose ourselves, we did it against both Leicester and Stoke more recently and against Liverpool at home for the 1st 30 minutes.

Is it not abundantly obvious to you that that level of agression is very hard to sustain over a period of time, the goal was obviously to nullify their press, check. Quieten the crown, check. then retreat a little and counter when we could.

You're taking the game as a single entity ,the context and magnitude of the result at hand and the implications of loss from going for it seem lost on you.

Mourinho is 8 games into his tenure, he's had one blip where the press were on his back. He's also had to deal with continuous questions about dropping of Rooney. A loss here and it could have set the team back weeks, not to mention kick off the "should Rooney have played crap" As it stands he can easily spin this as a triumph, we've contained a team that has put 2 past Chelsea, 4 past Arsenal and drawn with spurs, a team who's won 5 on the bounce.

Context my good man, when it's taken into account there really is no need to be embarrassed. It's a good point, a point Fergie would have happily taken in his time as manager.

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

You posted before the game that, quite clearly, you were looking for an excuse to give out about Jose. You had the knife unsheathed well before the game. So when after the game, you're looking to stick it into him, it lowers the value of the criticism you're offering. It's become abundantly clear you don't like Jose, or his tactics, or whatever. But when you decide to go ultra-negative, don't be shocked when people opt to roll their eyes back.

I was very clear that based on his behaviour in the run up, and his team selection that I would not be happy if it went bad. What is wrong with that? That's not getting the knife out early because I don't like him. That's seeing he is going to do the ONE thing that concerned me he would do (which I posted about numerous times in the weekly run up) which I felt would play into Liverpools hands.

I wasn't looking for an excuse to have a go at him, but pointing out that as he puts his cards on the table he is going to really shoot himself in the foot if he messes up.

I think I'm perfectly entitled to "dislike" someone but be objective about their performances be it a player or a manager. And saying that I can't is just degrading to me, whom you say yourself, has a history here of not being that type of poster.

So sure, I absolutely 100% do not like Jose Mourinho. I dislike many aspects of his character, I dislike many aspects of his management and his tactics, but to say I'm laying in waiting to rip him to shreds is totally incorrect.

Sure it might make me put forward an opinion or suggestion that maybe I think is relevant but lets be abundantly clear here, I'm not a snake in the grass waiting to pounce on Mourinho. He has my full support, and I'm hoping he restores the club back to where it belongs, winning ****.

But it's going to be a very frustrating three years posting here if every negative comment I make about the manager get's a pre-emptive response "oh you just don't like him, your a troll".

Would have loved to see the reaction if the fixtures were swopped, and last night we did that at Stamford bridge and lost. Or if we got walloped 4-0 last night at Anfield.

I guess for reference, look back at the thread when we lost to City at home and Mourinho deployed somewhat similar, including an obscure winger selection, where we got romped first half. It wasn't that positive.

What I will say is clearly I feel more strongly about this then most, or I'm not conveying my disappointment correctly, cause I'm genuinely shocked at the responses I'm being met with as if I'm some obscure weirdo that has issue with that style of performance. Especially considering how I distinctly remember the reaction to the Stamford Bridge result and how Mourinho was slaughtered and I mean slaughtered in this thread for that game.

So I'll leave it be, and accept this tactic will happen when Mourinho feels we are playing stronger opposition.

sReq | uTeK

MD1990 wrote: »

I have came across quite a few Man Utd fans annoyed with Mourinho.
I am surprised by how much he is defended by boards Man Utd fans. Some saying give him time but he only stays 3 years max at a club. With the money spent & big name players bought I would have thought more would have been expected from them so far but I guess they have faith they will improve as the season goes on.

Yes, lets get rid of a proven manager whos finished outside the top 2 once in his tenure as a manager after 8 games. Yes lets throw the book at him.

If we were adopting the same strategy for Klopp he's be gone after his 1st season. As it stands Brendan Rodgers still has a better win ration than him. It's a good job us footballing fans are not fickle people.

beno619

MD1990 wrote: »

I have came across quite a few Man Utd fans annoyed with Mourinho.
I am surprised by how much he is defended by boards Man Utd fans. Some saying give him time but he only stays 3 years max at a club. With the money spent & big name players bought I would have thought more would have been expected from them so far but I guess they have faith they will improve as the season goes on.

A lot of fans have poor opinions, whats your point ?

Lovely Bloke

I don't know what some fans expected to happen in the summer, or what Mourinho is supposed to have done?

"He spent €150m" is an infantile response.

He added 4 players to a broken squad, to go some way to fix the issues he sees (we ALL see), it's not finished, it can't be finished in one window, so he has to work with what he has - what he doesn't have are the tools to contain a free flowing Liverpool AND attack them properly, so the obvious play here is to contain them, stop the scoring and take what comes after that.

I don't give a shiney fúck what some no-mark Pool fan on a forum or in work says about that, they are just point scoring and bollox talking. It's obvious what Mou is doing here, he does it at all his clubs.

his work just isn't finished yet.

KaiserGunner

Was meant to post this in the match thread but it was locked just as I was about to post. It's in response to a couple of posters in there claiming that they don't expect Man Utd to be up there challenging for the title? Somebody even going as far as saying that thought may even be deluded! As an Arsenal fan I fully expect Man Utd to be up challenging for the title, along with City, Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal.

Quite surprised that a few Man Utd fans don't expect their teams to be up their fighting for the title? Especially with regards to Man Utd with all the money they have spent and the players that they brought in. Especially when the four players that were brought in were exactly what Mourinho wanted.

I'm assuming that the fans that don't expect Man Utd to challenge this year, due to bedding in new players, new manager etc, see Man City as credible title challengers? Even though both clubs were only separated by goal difference last year, both spent big in the summer and both got new managers in, Mourinho (who has past success in this league) and Guardiola (no experience in the premier league)

So what I'm basically saying is, if it's assumed that Man City are expected title challengers than there is absolutely no excuse why Man Utd shouldn't be up there. If Mourinho doesn't challenge for the title this season, then he is doing a pretty bad job tbh. Big game now against Chelsea, will he play out for another draw and potentially be 7 points adrift at this early stage?

TheDoc

beno619 wrote: »

When has a opposition fan ever taken being shut out well ? :rolleyes:

If we were in Chelsea's position at the time nobody on here would be complaining about our approach.

LVG served up tripe for 2 season's - Mourinho set up a side definitively once and you "embarrassed".

I was embarrassed by some of the rubbish trotted out to defend LVG last season.

I think it's fine for me to say I was slightly embarrassed by it. Grabbed a point in that style, for me it's a bit "ugh jesus" and hoping that Thursday flies by. Maybe it's because socially I'm in a predominant Liverpool environment. I don't know, but I did feel a little embarrassed. And I don't feel an issue saying that either. I don't do the tribal fan stuff really, so I wasn't onto my phone or in the match thread baying for Liverpool fans tears.

Although I can see why some are, I know how I felt when we lost to Mourinho at the Bridge, and when I watched him do that as a rival manager and it was infuriating. So I'm sure Liverpool fans were and still are seething after watching that.

And I don't think I'm taking it out of context. My concern, which I felt I was pretty clear about during the week with my posts, was Mourinho going in with the template(to which no one should have been surprised) that he uses in games like that.

And I felt my concern was somewhat justified considering the City home game, where he deployed something similar for the first half. That started the pressure ramp up and the run of bad form, and it also set alight the jubilation and praise for City and Pep. And we see how quickly that changes.

So with a weaker Liverpool team without two key players, a team that while collectively superior on form to us, is individually inferior to us I felt it an opportunity to really ignite the season, get back on track, releave all the pressure and change the narrative.

But look that's not how it went, we got a point, that's fine. I'm not happy about what happened but its fine and cool. I totally get what you are all saying, and I see why you think I'm mental. I just looked at the opportunity differently.

I'm not labelling it a disgrace, it's not a farce, there was some good stuff I outlined, there was some continuing concerns I've outlined, let's all hug and be friends again

sky88

Lord TSC wrote: »

Nah, the issue is that some people are actively looking for an excuse to bash Jose. If it wasn't that, it would be something else....

like a lot of posters do with rooney.

Tbh in my post i think in my post i came across wrong i wasnt trying to bash jose more say that this is the way he plays and we have to get used to it. Yea i think everyone would love the swashbuckling play but its not always going to happen.

Trigger

sky88 wrote: »

like a lot of posters do with rooney.

Tbh in my post i think in my post i came across wrong i wasnt trying to bash jose more say that this is the way he plays and we have to get used to it. Yea i think everyone would love the swashbuckling play but its not always going to happen.

Ask yourself this question and be honest.. when was the last time you seen Man Utd continuously play swashbuckling football?

sReq | uTeK

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Was meant to post this in the match thread but it was locked just as I was about to post. It's in response to a couple of posters in there claiming that they don't expect Man Utd to be up there challenging for the title? Somebody even going as far as saying that thought may even be deluded! As an Arsenal fan I fully expect Man Utd to be up challenging for the title, along with City, Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal.

Quite surprised that a few Man Utd fans don't expect their teams to be up their fighting for the title? Especially with regards to Man Utd with all the money they have spent and the players that they brought in. Especially when the four players that were brought in were exactly what Mourinho wanted.

I'm assuming that the fans that don't expect Man Utd to challenge this year, due to bedding in new players, new manager etc, see Man City as credible title challengers? Even though both clubs were only separated by goal difference last year, both spent big in the summer and both got new managers in, Mourinho (who has past success in this league) and Guardiola (no experience in the premier league)

So what I'm basically saying is, if it's assumed that Man City are expected title challengers than there is absolutely no excuse why Man Utd shouldn't be up there. If Mourinho doesn't challenge for the title this season, then he is doing a pretty bad job tbh. Big game now against Chelsea, will he play out for another draw and potentially be 7 points adrift at this early stage?

Context, Context, Context. Man City were champions the year before, they had a stable squad who have played together for an extended time. They significantly underachieved last season.

The Squad that Pep has at his disposal is largely unchanged to that of Pelligrini's (SP).

Another factor to look at is that Pep's style while vastly different to Pelligrini's still allows for freedom and flare. This is something that LVG coached out of his players for 2 years. This is a problem that Mourinho cited at the start. He has to get the players to express themselves again, no easy task when you've only been allowed go sideways.

Also while I have every confidence in Mourinho as a manager and expect he will get the team back to the glory days, I still have the smallest recollection embedded in my mind of what happened last year. He's probably still finding his feet.

In contrast Pep is coming off the back of a very good season with Bayern.

It's all small but it all adds up.

MD1990

beno619 wrote: »

A lot of fans have poor opinions, whats your point ?

My main point would be. That after Van Gaal & his defensive style. I am surprised last night's performance is being admired so much considering the players bought & money spent. At the end of the Van Gaal era there was attack attack attack chants & fans annoyed at the boring football.

Not a huge difference under Mourinho at all so far. You would expect a more immediate improvement with the 3 attacking signings that was made. Mourinho got his top targets & has to utilise them better.

Mkhitaryan not being used is very strange played well coming on vs Hull then starts injured vs Man City poor management. Pogba is not being played in his best position as a LCM. Poor man management of Shaw criticising a player in public coming back from a serious injury.

I would give credit to Mourinho for getting the best out of Herrera though who was excellent at Bilbao.

Cantona's Collars

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

I don't know what some fans expected to happen in the summer, or what Mourinho is supposed to have done?

"He spent €150m" is an infantile response.

He added 4 players to a broken squad, to go some way to fix the issues he sees (we ALL see), it's not finished, it can't be finished in one window, so he has to work with what he has - what he doesn't have are the tools to contain a free flowing Liverpool AND attack them properly, so the obvious play here is to contain them, stop the scoring and take what comes after that.

I don't give a shiney fúck what some no-mark Pool fan on a forum or in work says about that, they are just point scoring and bollox talking. It's obvious what Mou is doing here, he does it at all his clubs.

his work just isn't finished yet.

Couldn't have summed it up better.I can remember games at Anfield where we hung on for dear life and were delighted with escaping with a point.The amount of handwringing over last night is embarrasing,look back over the last week and the amount of negativity over the game, "this could be bad", "Liverpool could really do a number on us".We went to play the form team and drew,if Liverpool came to OT and did the same I'm sure they'd be happy with a point.De Gea had a backpass effort of a shot to catch in the first half and 2 saves in the second,nothing else against one of the most vaunted attacks in the league.
We'll let them have their moral victory because we didn't play fair and defended properly which apparently is now frowned upon.

TheDoc

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

I don't know what some fans expected to happen in the summer, or what Mourinho is supposed to have done?

Well I guess I tried to be transparent with my expectations before his appointment and then after his appointment in the summer. I felt there was two "types" of Mourinho we could get, based on what was his taking from the club.

Going by his comments, the clubs actions and what has transpired, I made clear the type of Mourinho I expected and what my expectations are:

Return to CL this season
Genuine title challenge second and third season
CL progression year two and three
PL title within three year period

And that was based on the assumption he may be gone in three years based on his history.

So the end will justify the means. I'll get disappointed with certain performances, certain tactics, certain player selection and the likes. But come end of season if we are back in Top 4 I won't be banging on about this performance, unless a clear pattern emerges but even then, I'm hardly going to be surprised nor should anyone.

"He spent €150m" is an infantile response.

I don't think that is being put to him yet, despite it being the absolute crucifix Van Gaal carried around. And I don't think any logical fan here has used that against Mourinho yet, and if it will ever happen. If it's a rival fan thing that is said, well whatever.

Although see there is concerns growing among posters here relating to Pogba, and I'd be lying if I said I'm watching that with inquisitive eyes. But I wouldn't be at a point of major concern yet.

He added 4 players to a broken squad, to go some way to fix the issues he sees (we ALL see), it's not finished, it can't be finished in one window, so he has to work with what he has

that's perfectly acceptable and reasonable. What 100% has not helped his cause is two very distinctive coaches in Klopp and Pep coming along and stamping a very distinctive style onto their teams relatively quickly. Media and pundits bring Klopp into the equation but to be fair he was there last season.

But I don't think it's helped Mourinho with how quick Pep has City firing. In his defence, City were a sham last year, so this Pep "miracle" is being blown out of proportion imo, he didn't take over a mid table side.... Mourinho has issues in that squad to sort, defalted players, players who has been just broken since they joined the club. I think everyone is reasonably providing him time.

At the same time, I don't think it's unreasonable to question at times, as say I've done, why a top manager like him after spending months watching the team from afar, then having a full pre-season, is still experiencing some indecision and difficulty with forming his plan. but that can be down to player form etc and football isnt an exact science.

what he doesn't have are the tools to contain a free flowing Liverpool AND attack them properly, so the obvious play here is to contain them, stop the scoring and take what comes after that.

I guess I just disagree on that point, and feel our squad does have the tools. But i'm clearly in the minority relating last night, so I'm perfectly happy just conceding at this point.


To clarify I've gone quote by quote on your post not to have a dig or get in some row, but maybe just to try re-iterate I'm not calling for Jose's head, I'm not waiting in the grass for him, last night wasn't a disgrace or a farce. That I was disappointed, that I hoped for a different approach, and after some posts directed at me feel a bit like I need to make extra effort now to NOT appear like I'm lieing in wait for Jose at every turn, which as I said, is going to make the next three years pretty tough for me

MD1990

MD1990 wrote: »

My main point would be. That after Van Gaal & his defensive style. I am surprised last night's performance is being admired so much considering the players bought & money spent. At the end of the Van Gaal era there was attack attack attack chants & fans annoyed at the boring football.

Not a huge difference under Mourinho at all so far. You would expect a more immediate improvement with the 3 attacking signings that was made. Mourinho got his top targets & has to utilise them better.

Mkhitaryan not being used is very strange played well coming on vs Hull then starts unjured vs Man City poor management. Pogba is not being played in his best position as a LCM. Poor man management of Shaw criticising a player in public coming back from a serious injury.

I would give credit to Mourinho for getting the best out of Herrera though who was excellent at Bilbao.

It's like you chose to ignore this point that has been addressed about 20+ times

Rayne Wooney

Herrera was frustrated that we didn't go for it but this is how Mourinho wants to play out his league campaign and he'll be liable for where the team finishes in the end not Ander. I'm sure he has it drawn out in his head how many points he wants from each game.

Liverpool were coming into this with full confidence and we killed that in the first 40 minutes. It took them 15 minutes into the second half before any sort of rhythm started going and by then it was too late. As a result of this we only created 1 or 2 chances to win it but so did Liverpool.

Cantona's Collars

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Herrera was frustrated that we didn't go for it but this is how Mourinho wants to play out his league campaign and he'll be liable for where the team finishes in the end not Ander. I'm sure he has it drawn out in his head how many points he wants from each game.

Liverpool were coming into this with full confidence and we killed that in the first 40 minutes. It took them 15 minutes into the second half before any sort of rhythm started going and by then it was too late. As a result of this we only created 1 or 2 chances to win it but so did Liverpool.

Just as under Rodgers they have Plan A,when that doesn't work they have nothing else.

Giggsy11

MD1990 wrote: »

My main point would be. That after Van Gaal & his defensive style. I am surprised last night's performance is being admired so much considering the players bought & money spent. At the end of the Van Gaal era there was attack attack attack chants & fans annoyed at the boring football.

Not a huge difference under Mourinho at all so far. You would expect a more immediate improvement with the 3 attacking signings that was made. Mourinho got his top targets & has to utilise them better.

Mkhitaryan not being used is very strange played well coming on vs Hull then starts injured vs Man City poor management. Pogba is not being played in his best position as a LCM. Poor man management of Shaw criticising a player in public coming back from a serious injury.

I would give credit to Mourinho for getting the best out of Herrera though who was excellent at Bilbao.

You got so many points wrong it's shocking. If we apply match thread logic, you are lying.

Van Gaal never played defensive game. He played possession game but created nothing, just like Liverpool played yesterday.

Under Jose we are creating a lot in almost every game except against pool, under Van Gaal for all the possession we didn't create much.

Mkhitaryan was injured, he played against city when he wasn't fit and it backfired. It would be foolish to throw him for such high pressure game when he has just recovered.

Shaw, it's for mediatards. There was nothing wrong but people who love clickbait headlines got what they wanted.

And last, lol at Liverpool fans who are concerned about us. ManUtd don't play every game like this.

I know this is waste of time as you will repeat the same question after sometime but I'm sort of bored. So....

v3ttel

The outcry over United's tactics yesterday is laughable at best.

Away to a team in excellent form that have won at Arsenal and Chelsea, and we expect to rock up there, control the game for 90 mins and play them off the park? We controlled the game very well in the first half and gave them zero clear cut chances, except for a shot out of the blue from Coutinho and a ball bobbling around the box that resulted in a Can shot.

We've finished 7th, 4th and 5th in the last three seasons and have no divine right to win.

Anybody who says that we didn't play similarly to that under Fergie at times is completely wrong and remembering his time with rose tinted glasses. There are countless examples where we went away to teams and were very defensive (hint: Ji-Sung Park).

The only difference is that we were better on the counter than last night.

v3ttel

MD1990 wrote: »

My main point would be. That after Van Gaal & his defensive style.

Your main point is bollocks, IMHO.

You are confusing "defensive" with "lack of attacking intent"

They are not the same thing (not even close). Sterile domination would be the best description of his style.

Flint Fredstone

When someone starts so many sentences with "most Man United fans..." the next few lines are usually bullsh*t.

crkball6

v3ttel wrote: »

The outcry over United's tactics yesterday is laughable at best.

Away to a team in excellent form that have won at Arsenal and Chelsea, and we expect to rock up there, control the game for 90 mins and play them off the park? We controlled the game very well in the first half and gave them zero clear cut chances, except for a shot out of the blue from Coutinho and a ball bobbling around the box that resulted in a Can shot.

We've finished 7th, 4th and 5th in the last three seasons and have no divine right to win.

Anybody who says that we didn't play similarly to that under Fergie at times is completely wrong and remembering his time with rose tinted glasses. There are countless examples where we went away to teams and were very defensive (hint: Ji-Sung Park).

The only difference is that we were better on the counter than last night.

Roy Keane and prawn sambo's spring to mind. In this case more like Couch Tayto sambo's

Flint Fredstone

I still can't get over all the crying.



https://twitter.com/freebetscouk/status/788137900097634304

TheDoc

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Herrera was frustrated that we didn't go for it but this is how Mourinho wants to play out his league campaign and he'll be liable for where the team finishes in the end not Ander. I'm sure he has it drawn out in his head how many points he wants from each game.

Liverpool were coming into this with full confidence and we killed that in the first 40 minutes. It took them 15 minutes into the second half before any sort of rhythm started going and by then it was too late. As a result of this we only created 1 or 2 chances to win it but so did Liverpool.

Was immensely impressed with his post match interview.

As I said from seeing his demeanour last night, and the way he speaks, should his position in the team continue (and really should with no exception) could become a real leader in the team.

He was impervious last night. His tackling is like an artform. At times it looks like hes going to two foot someone, then he just adjusts his legs mid tackle.

So good. Fellaini deserves massive credit as well. He did his job to perfection and some nice control. Liverpool didn't really put us on the ropes at all really and he was an important part of that

Kirby

TheDoc wrote: »

Was immensely impressed with his post match interview.

As I said from seeing his demeanour last night, and the way he speaks, should his position in the team continue (and really should with no exception) could become a real leader in the team.

He was impervious last night. His tackling is like an artform. At times it looks like hes going to two foot someone, then he just adjusts his legs mid tackle.

So good. Fellaini deserves massive credit as well. He did his job to perfection and some nice control. Liverpool didn't really put us on the ropes at all really and he was an important part of that

Impervious to what? Bullets? Elbows?

Backstreet Moyes

Really a bit shocked to see some reactions from United fans.

Went away to the most in form team in the league who are scoring for fun and get a point and a clean sheet.

United were underdogs and nearly everyone expected Liverpool to win comfortably including most United fans i talked to before the game.

Instead we dominated the first 20 mins and limited them to two half chances, a side who have been scoring for fun.

Liverpool fans should be more concerned there manager is so one dimensional he couldn't change things up.

Mantis Toboggan

434 million worth of players on the pitch and our main tactic was to stifle the opposition team who finished in 8th last season, good man Jose.

Having said that I would have taken a point before the game

Flint Fredstone

Tyson Fury wrote: »

434 million worth of players on the pitch and our main tactic was to stifle the opposition team who finished in 8th last season, good man Jose.

Having said that I would have taken a point before the game

We are not a team yet. People can reel off price tags as much as they want but it's fairly pointless until Mourinho has the team playing the way he wants to his high standards. 3 years of mediocrity has to be coached out of some of these players.
Then we can go to Anfield/Etihad/Emirates and be a bit more adventurous.

Martial, Shaw and Mkhitaryan are still to come into that team from last night. 3 massive players for us.

BBC's Phil McNulty managed to say it in about 1,000 less words than me...

https://twitter.com/philmcnulty/status/788286787475148801

"Lot of criticism of Mourinho on here seems based on the fact he didn't set Man. Utd. up in a way that would have allowed Liverpool to win"

alchemist33

v3ttel wrote: »

Away to a team in excellent form that have won at Arsenal and Chelsea, and we expect to rock up there, control the game for 90 mins and play them off the park?

Who expected this? Nobody I've seen said that, and this isn't the only post mentioning this strawman. It was a well-won point against good opposition, and we were really good in the first half, but the chances of us winning that game with that set-up were absolutely tiny. If the best we hope for away to liverpool, city, arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea is a draw (and maybe it's all we'll look for at home too) we haven't a hope of winning the title and a slim chance of top 4. I just hope we will evolve from last night, using it as a solid foundation, and kick on.

5starpool

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Was meant to post this in the match thread but it was locked just as I was about to post. It's in response to a couple of posters in there claiming that they don't expect Man Utd to be up there challenging for the title? Somebody even going as far as saying that thought may even be deluded! As an Arsenal fan I fully expect Man Utd to be up challenging for the title, along with City, Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal.

Quite surprised that a few Man Utd fans don't expect their teams to be up their fighting for the title? Especially with regards to Man Utd with all the money they have spent and the players that they brought in. Especially when the four players that were brought in were exactly what Mourinho wanted.

I'm assuming that the fans that don't expect Man Utd to challenge this year, due to bedding in new players, new manager etc, see Man City as credible title challengers? Even though both clubs were only separated by goal difference last year, both spent big in the summer and both got new managers in, Mourinho (who has past success in this league) and Guardiola (no experience in the premier league)

So what I'm basically saying is, if it's assumed that Man City are expected title challengers than there is absolutely no excuse why Man Utd shouldn't be up there. If Mourinho doesn't challenge for the title this season, then he is doing a pretty bad job tbh. Big game now against Chelsea, will he play out for another draw and potentially be 7 points adrift at this early stage?

Plenty of people expected Utd to win the league this season. In the poll started in August, more people chose Utd than any other team as most likely to win it. Here are the 61 who said they expected utd to win. Plenty of Utd fans in there too.

09_09_09, A Dub in Glasgo, Alfa Quadrifoglio, ArnoldJRimmer, astradave, barneygumble99, Blatter, Bleating Lamb, Blowfish, Brendan Flowers, Comic Book Guy, Conbhar, Cookiemunster, Cookie_Dough, cowboyBuilder, Cypher_sounds, DaaaaaaaaaaN, dakar, davehey79, deaddonkey15, dr.kenneth noisewater, dundalkfc10, Ferris_Bueller, GavRedKing, Hank Scorpio, internelligent, internet_user, jackwigan, JakeArmitage, JaMarcusHustle, jayo26, Jayop, joe316, Kalel, Kirby, LeeJM, Lithium93_, Lord TSC, Lovely Bloke, M!Ck^, MagicIRL, MicksJaguar, Nalz, NIMAN, Pete Moss, Pyjamarama, RainMakerToo, RobbieTheRobber, RobertKK, robo, s.welstead, Sand, Scorpion Sting, Shaque attack, shrewdness, TacT, Tippex, Unearthly, v3ttel, Whatsisname, wijam

Cookiemunster

alchemist33 wrote: »

Who expected this? Nobody I've seen said that, and this isn't the only post mentioning this strawman. It was a well-won point against good opposition, and we were really good in the first half, but the chances of us winning that game with that set-up were absolutely tiny. If the best we hope for away to liverpool, city, arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea is a draw (and maybe it's all we'll look for at home too) we haven't a hope of winning the title and a slim chance of top 4. I just hope we will evolve from last night, using it as a solid foundation, and kick on.

Playing tight away to the big teams and trying to nick it on the break is exactly how Mourinho has won multiple league titles. It's also how Fergie won multiple league titles. Under Fergie we rarely won the "top 4 league", but we beat everyone else.

TheDoc

Kirby wrote: »

Impervious to what? Bullets? Elbows?

:eek: I used the right context right?

Impervious, to like, be immune to or unaffected by.

As in the occasion, the atmopshere, the pressure, he just played exceptionally well. As Giggs said too, when he played against him he was a 10 and here is bossing a game from midfield. Really impressive stuff.

I've a really outragous superlative for Hererra, but I'm going to hold onto it a later more until I'm convinced it's the truth.


On a totally separate note. I mentioned at the time (in the aftermath) how little was being made among fans about Giggs departure and that was a bit odd. There was really no, well, nothing. I was critical of him during his time under Moyes and Van Gaal, as I couldn't accept him being totally separated from those regimes failures.

Having seen him now a few times doing his TV analysis, it's weird how he speaks as if he WASN'T just coaching the team for three seasons. Seems to be really **** all insight from him. And based on some of his analysis, I'm not surprised if Mourinho cut him lose for being rubbish, nevermind being a "threat".

Am I reading into this too much, and Giggs is just being purposefully rubbish because he just left the club and isn't comfy being so revealing, or is he really poor in his analysis and comments?

Like there is some tidbits of good stuff, but considering he keeps coming onto the scene for United stuff, I'm expecting a little more.

Might just be nerves also being in that new role on the telly mind you. Just think he's odd on in the role.

bucketybuck

5starpool wrote: »

Plenty of people expected Utd to win the league this season.

What has this got to do with anything?

TheDoc

alchemist33 wrote: »

Who expected this? Nobody I've seen said that, and this isn't the only post mentioning this strawman. It was a well-won point against good opposition, and we were really good in the first half, but the chances of us winning that game with that set-up were absolutely tiny. If the best we hope for away to liverpool, city, arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea is a draw (and maybe it's all we'll look for at home too) we haven't a hope of winning the title and a slim chance of top 4. I just hope we will evolve from last night, using it as a solid foundation, and kick on.

I always maintain that leagues are won not against your rivals, but against the bottom half of the league. Who drops the least points, wins. I know there is potentially loads of ways to form that argument, but it's the one I firmly believe in and use.

Van Gaal had a tremendous record against direct rivals, but the slip-ups against weaker teams kept costing us. Arsenal have a poor record against rivals, yet they stomp those beneath them.

so for me in the grand scheme of things last nights point won't really matter. What would come to haunt us is Stoke,Watford and any other nonsense result we get in the season. (Looking at you West Brom and Sunderland)

Dropping points to Liverpool or Chelsea in the current run really might not make much of a diff in the grand scheme of things. Drop points against Burnley, that is where you lose leagues.

weisses

Nuts102 wrote: »

Really a bit shocked to see some reactions from United fans.

Went away to the most in form team in the league who are scoring for fun and get a point and a clean sheet.

United were underdogs and nearly everyone expected Liverpool to win comfortably including most United fans i talked to before the game.

Instead we dominated the first 20 mins and limited them to two half chances, a side who have been scoring for fun.

Liverpool fans should be more concerned there manager is so one dimensional he couldn't change things up.

1 shot on target

Underdog or nor ...That is pathetic

paulbok

5starpool wrote: »

Plenty of people expected Utd to win the league this season. In the poll started in August, more people chose Utd than any other team as most likely to win it. Here are the 61 who said they expected utd to win. Plenty of Utd fans in there too.

09_09_09, A Dub in Glasgo, Alfa Quadrifoglio, ArnoldJRimmer, astradave, barneygumble99, Blatter, Bleating Lamb, Blowfish, Brendan Flowers, Comic Book Guy, Conbhar, Cookiemunster, Cookie_Dough, cowboyBuilder, Cypher_sounds, DaaaaaaaaaaN, dakar, davehey79, deaddonkey15, dr.kenneth noisewater, dundalkfc10, Ferris_Bueller, GavRedKing, Hank Scorpio, internelligent, internet_user, jackwigan, JakeArmitage, JaMarcusHustle, jayo26, Jayop, joe316, Kalel, Kirby, LeeJM, Lithium93_, Lord TSC, Lovely Bloke, M!Ck^, MagicIRL, MicksJaguar, Nalz, NIMAN, Pete Moss, Pyjamarama, RainMakerToo, RobbieTheRobber, RobertKK, robo, s.welstead, Sand, Scorpion Sting, Shaque attack, shrewdness, TacT, Tippex, Unearthly, v3ttel, Whatsisname, wijam

The rest of us were waiting for the "Next Year" option

weisses

Nuts102 wrote: »

Really a bit shocked to see some reactions from United fans.

Went away to the most in form team in the league who are scoring for fun and get a point and a clean sheet.

United were underdogs and nearly everyone expected Liverpool to win comfortably including most United fans i talked to before the game.

Instead we dominated the first 20 mins and limited them to two half chances, a side who have been scoring for fun.

Liverpool fans should be more concerned there manager is so one dimensional he couldn't change things up.

1 shot on target

Underdog or not ...That is pathetic

Flint Fredstone

5starpool wrote: »

Plenty of people expected Utd to win the league this season. In the poll started in August, more people chose Utd than any other team as most likely to win it. Here are the 61 who said they expected utd to win. Plenty of Utd fans in there too.

09_09_09, A Dub in Glasgo, Alfa Quadrifoglio, ArnoldJRimmer, astradave, barneygumble99, Blatter, Bleating Lamb, Blowfish, Brendan Flowers, Comic Book Guy, Conbhar, Cookiemunster, Cookie_Dough, cowboyBuilder, Cypher_sounds, DaaaaaaaaaaN, dakar, davehey79, deaddonkey15, dr.kenneth noisewater, dundalkfc10, Ferris_Bueller, GavRedKing, Hank Scorpio, internelligent, internet_user, jackwigan, JakeArmitage, JaMarcusHustle, jayo26, Jayop, joe316, Kalel, Kirby, LeeJM, Lithium93_, Lord TSC, Lovely Bloke, M!Ck^, MagicIRL, MicksJaguar, Nalz, NIMAN, Pete Moss, Pyjamarama, RainMakerToo, RobbieTheRobber, RobertKK, robo, s.welstead, Sand, Scorpion Sting, Shaque attack, shrewdness, TacT, Tippex, Unearthly, v3ttel, Whatsisname, wijam

Let me guess... Liverpool were right up there too?
Boards polls are not a measure of anything. Some people just vote for their own no matter what they believe.

If there's a player of the season poll with Rooney as the only United option, there's a good chance he'll win it.

5starpool

5starpool wrote: »

Plenty of people expected Utd to win the league this season. In the poll started in August, more people chose Utd than any other team as most likely to win it. Here are the 61 who said they expected utd to win. Plenty of Utd fans in there too.

09_09_09, A Dub in Glasgo, Alfa Quadrifoglio, ArnoldJRimmer, astradave, barneygumble99, Blatter, Bleating Lamb, Blowfish, Brendan Flowers, Comic Book Guy, Conbhar, Cookiemunster, Cookie_Dough, cowboyBuilder, Cypher_sounds, DaaaaaaaaaaN, dakar, davehey79, deaddonkey15, dr.kenneth noisewater, dundalkfc10, Ferris_Bueller, GavRedKing, Hank Scorpio, internelligent, internet_user, jackwigan, JakeArmitage, JaMarcusHustle, jayo26, Jayop, joe316, Kalel, Kirby, LeeJM, Lithium93_, Lord TSC, Lovely Bloke, M!Ck^, MagicIRL, MicksJaguar, Nalz, NIMAN, Pete Moss, Pyjamarama, RainMakerToo, RobbieTheRobber, RobertKK, robo, s.welstead, Sand, Scorpion Sting, Shaque attack, shrewdness, TacT, Tippex, Unearthly, v3ttel, Whatsisname, wijam

The poster you quoted said that he was surprised that a few United fans were not expecting to challenge for the title. You going out of your way to point out that 61 soccer forum posters voted for United before a ball was kicked in August doesn't really address his point at all.

Cantona's Collars

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Playing tight away to the big teams and trying to nick it on the break is exactly how Mourinho has won multiple league titles. It's also how Fergie won multiple league titles. Under Fergie we rarely won the "top 4 league", but we beat everyone else.

Look at the likes of Liverpool over the last few years,get all dizzy over beating some of "The big 4" and the following few games lose or draw with the teams in the bottom half of the league.
Fergie and Jose were famed for being flat track bullys,beating all these 'smaller teams' and tending to set up not to lose against the other big teams.How many matches between us and these big boys live up to the hype?

5starpool

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Let me guess... Liverpool were right up there too?
Boards polls are not a measure of anything. Some people just vote for their own no matter what they believe.

If there's a player of the season poll with Rooney as the only United option, there's a good chance he'll win it.

Here is the thread for you to llook at yourself.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057632429

About 1/4 of the number that thought utd would win it (61) thought Liverpool would win it (16), about half of those or maybe a bit more were Liverpool fans. Obviously far from scientific, but I was addressing the point where someone said they were surprised to see so many utd fans say they never expected to fight for the title by letting him know that a good few on here did. Obviously not repensentative of all of ye, and some of those that voted utd are probably fans of other teams too, but it addressed his point in some respects anyhow.

There is no "who every utd fan thinks will win the league" thread, so this was the closest we have to it.

jayo26

I think the majority of them votes were the league was going to be won by us or city and I still stand by that only difference now is I think it will be city

In seriousness it is not even a quater of way into season form will come and go city have dropped points over past few games we are well capable of going on a run last night don't change that. We are five points off the top for fuk sake.

Last night was not as negative as people are saying... it was a controlled performance and even tho Liverpool were bad in first half they still defended really well that's more of the reason we didn't have more chances.

We also finished the game off strong when milner was taken off we attacked the left back position so it wasn't even close to anything lvg cooked up it was a total different class.

Pool fans asking how we feel about it but how do they feel about there so called press been nullified so easy and there genius manager didn't have any other option. Yeh they brought on lalana and it looked better but they still didn't get anything apart from two half chances and one was the usual couthinho into top corner trick then he took off milner and unsettled their defence at a very important time it's not all plain sailing on both sides I'll take the draw happily and move on.

TheDoc

For what it's worth I think we can win the league this year, as I did start of season.

I believe whole heartily we have a really good squad. Where Jose will earn his crust is getting that attack firing. Hasn't really happened yet. But we have a solid, and I mean really good defensive legacy left by Van Gaal that someone like Mourinho will fine tune and can build from.

I appreciate all the plaudits City got for their earlier performances, and Pep being Pep, but I still believe now what I did pre-season. It will be everyone else's failing for City to win the league with that defence. I think the quality in their squad is totally blown out of proportion.

If Jose can get players on form, in a system that clicks, with a first 11 that works, I thoroughly believe we could blow this league away. I'm not buying it's more competitive this year in terms of the overall league. I think the quality has dipped, mid-lower half teams are trying to play more expansive football without the quality and with the squad we have we could really go on a serious run of wins

5starpool

5starpool wrote: »

Here is the thread for you to llook at yourself.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057632429

About 1/4 of the number that thought utd would win it (61) thought Liverpool would win it (16), about half of those or maybe a bit more were Liverpool fans. Obviously far from scientific, but I was addressing the point where someone said they were surprised to see so many utd fans say they never expected to fight for the title by letting him know that a good few on here did. Obviously not repensentative of all of ye, and some of those that voted utd are probably fans of other teams too, but it addressed his point in some respects anyhow.

There is no "who every utd fan thinks will win the league" thread, so this was the closest we have to it.

This is what he really said...

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Was meant to post this in the match thread but it was locked just as I was about to post. It's in response to a couple of posters in there claiming that they don't expect Man Utd to be up there challenging for the title? Somebody even going as far as saying that thought may even be deluded! As an Arsenal fan I fully expect Man Utd to be up challenging for the title, along with City, Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal.

Quite surprised that a few Man Utd fans don't expect their teams to be up their fighting for the title? Especially with regards to Man Utd with all the money they have spent and the players that they brought in. Especially when the four players that were brought in were exactly what Mourinho wanted.

I'm assuming that the fans that don't expect Man Utd to challenge this year, due to bedding in new players, new manager etc, see Man City as credible title challengers? Even though both clubs were only separated by goal difference last year, both spent big in the summer and both got new managers in, Mourinho (who has past success in this league) and Guardiola (no experience in the premier league)

So what I'm basically saying is, if it's assumed that Man City are expected title challengers than there is absolutely no excuse why Man Utd shouldn't be up there. If Mourinho doesn't challenge for the title this season, then he is doing a pretty bad job tbh. Big game now against Chelsea, will he play out for another draw and potentially be 7 points adrift at this early stage?

You guys are seething and sore today. You really should be directing a lot of this post-match analysis and concern inwards.

dave_o_brien

TheDoc wrote: »

:eek: I used the right context right?

Impervious, to like, be immune to or unaffected by.

As in the occasion, the atmopshere, the pressure, he just played exceptionally well. As Giggs said too, when he played against him he was a 10 and here is bossing a game from midfield. Really impressive stuff.

I kind of assumed you meant imperious, but impervious to the occasion makes sense I suppose. It would be odd to not be specific about what he was impervious to, mind you. As said, it could have been bullets, or the ravages of time, or overly salted snacks, but it's all clearer now!