Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

Lord TSC

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Unsure if I'm late to the game, but Bailly out for two months.

Well....****.

adox

adox wrote: »

Schneiderlin has done nothing in his time at Utd to deserve a place in the team. Maybe a bit unusual that he hasn't even made the bench so often but to be honest I won't shed a tear when he's moved on.

That's slightly unfair IMO
I mean he had a good few appearances for LVG but even still that was choppy and bit part to say the least.
Not been given any chance under Jose to prove himself

sReq | uTeK

zerks wrote: »

Funny how things like that come out when a certain senior player is left out of the team.

I believe Jose has quickly realised that Rooney in the team is not an option and out of it is a disruption.

I think he will be gone in the summer

Trigger

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Unsure if I'm late to the game, but Bailly out for two months.

Tbh seeing as it was anticipated that he would be out for around 6months, 2 doesn't seem so bad. Still a massive loss to an area that we are already short on

Liam McPoyle

astradave wrote: »

Tbh seeing as it was anticipated that he would be out for around 6months, 2 doesn't seem so bad. Still a massive loss to an area that we are already short on

Will he be at the ACON?

Could be back fit just in time for that.

Groovy.

Lithium93_

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Unsure if I'm late to the game, but Bailly out for two months.

****..

RobertKK

It never rains but it pours.

RobbingBandit

Ah why, the mad thing is will Bailly go to the cup of nations if fit enough in January if yes then we lose him for much longer again.

Mantis Toboggan

Confirmed 27 Million paid by the club to Pogba's agent. Bargain.

niallo27

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Confirmed 27 Million paid by the club to Pogba's agent. Bargain.

How can that even make sense. Has he player rights or something. Is this on top of fee.

deaddonkey15

Lord TSC wrote: »

I'm sure this is entirely coincidental...

https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/790667116210970632

According to a source close to a United senior player...

IF true, it's amazing how it's gone from "OMG, LVG is smothering us!" to "OMG, why won't Jose play with us?!?!". If true, it stinks of players just wanting to cause problems for the new manager already....

zerks wrote: »

Funny how things like that come out when a certain senior player is left out of the team.

Funny how we're arguably a worse side since he's been left out also. It's not really going according to plan is it?

I personally don't care much for these types of articles, especially one where grown men are apparently "stunned" that their manager isn't more involved in training. Seems very tabloid-like to me. There were similar articles a few weeks ago when we lost 3 matches in a week. It's kick them when their down stuff. A few poor results, rumours start developing, fans start getting worried - what better time to write an article that throws more fuel on the fire. 2 or 3 wins in a row and these articles don't get written. I treat them the same as I would the daily transfer "news" during the summer.

With our recent record at Stamford Bridge, a win on Sunday was unlikely. I think most were expecting a draw at best if not half expecting a defeat. It's the magnitude of the defeat that has people losing their sh*t but I really don't think it's as bad as it looks. As pointed out previously, Chelsea's last game before playing United was last Saturday at lunch time (!). United played twice since then, the second game as recently as Thursday night before traveling away to Chelsea. It was always going to be tough considering the rest periods both teams had, and unfortunately it was made tougher by silly errors right from the off - mental fatigue as much as physical perhaps. Mistakes will happen and they're more likely to happen if you're playing your third game in 6 days. Huge task to overcome the 2 goals in the second half and Chelsea just picked off what must have been a physically and mentally drained United side on the counter. The result wasn't entirely unexpected, just the scoreline which I think we could just put down to a bad day at the office. Still only 6 points behind in October having played City, Pool, and Chelsea is not a bad position to be in. Like I said above, 2 or 3 wins and the mood around the club and the media will be very different.

Donnielighto

niallo27 wrote: »

How can that even make sense. Has he player rights or something. Is this on top of fee.

Is that the part for his clause with juve maybe

bmcc10

Lord TSC wrote: »

I mean, I can understand Bastian to an extent. His form last year was poor in the context of the whole season, constantly out injured, high wages relative to the amount of game time he had, and lots of reports about players not liking his attitude towards rehab (always running round the world instead of buckling down) and the special treatment he got from LVG. Jose seemed quite open about the fact he had no chance of game time at United, and I can't imagine Bastian's "Yeah, well I'll sit at home and keep getting paid" mentality did much to help either.

But with Schnderlin, we have zero stories or leaks, and we seemed to turn down bids for him in the summer.

Agree on last year and certainly not player he was but he should have been giving a clean start like everyone else under new manager, Even in the euros he showed more balls and was better than any of our players are capable of against Italy and France, Just seems such a waste a proven leader having zero influence on a team lacking any leadership weather that be starting or a squad role.

Mantis Toboggan

niallo27 wrote: »

How can that even make sense. Has he player rights or something. Is this on top of fee.

Absolute madness! Sure filing out those forms ain't easy!

Trigger

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Confirmed 27 Million paid by the club to Pogba's agent. Bargain.

Wrong, it was paid by Juventus as confirmed by Marotta today, but don't let that get in the way of your agenda to have a pop at Ed Woodward

niallo27 wrote: »

How can that even make sense. Has he player rights or something. Is this on top of fee.

It was in the fee that we paid for Pogba, Marotta confirmed the details today:

Juventus have revealed the true cost of selling Paul Pogba to Manchester United, as well as the cut Mino Raiola will receive.

Pogba moved to United for a world record £89.3million in the summer, with the fee rising to £92.3m based on additional clauses.

Speaking to investors at a meeting, Juventus general manager Giuseppe Marotta has gone into more depth with regards to the deal.

He has explained that United must pay the Italian club a further fee if Pogba leaves Old Trafford for more than £44.5m in the future, and has also revealed the cut agent Mino Raiola stands to make.

“He came from United for a price of around €1.5m,” Marotta explained to shareholders.

“After four years with us he decided to return to England, he wanted to leave at all costs. Our asking price was €105m plus €5m in bonuses, which is payable if the player renews with United or leaves for a fee of more than €50m.

“That brings us to a capital gain in the budget of €95m. Mino Raiola and his company will be paid €27m. Taking fees into account, the total gain for Pogba was €72m.

“Even then we didn’t want to sell him, we wanted to put in French roots at Juventus.

http://www.football365.com/news/juventus-explain-pogba-add-ons-reveal-raiola-fee

Mantis Toboggan

Astradave, the agent received 27 million, that money came from Manchester United did it not??

Trigger

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Astradave, the agent received 27 million, that money came from Manchester United did it not??

No, Manchester United paid Juventus 105m Euro or 89m GBP, Juventus have yet to pay Riola his fee, they say that Riola's company will receive 27m euro. That money is coming from Juventus, not from Manchester United. We did not pay Riola 27m as you stated in your last post

Confirmed 27 Million paid by the club to Pogba's agent. Bargain.

So to answer your question in short...

No

jayo26

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Confirmed 27 Million paid by the club to Pogba's agent. Bargain.

Great research there tyson.

Crimson King

Dont get the confusion tbh. United paid £89m to Juventus who in turn paid the agent out of the fee.

If he resigns for united during his contract or is sold on for >50m then Juve are entitled to the extra €5m

Mantis Toboggan

Ah so juve paid the agent with United's money.. ah that's grand so, cheers for clearing that one up.

jayo26

Crimson King wrote: »

Dont get the confusion tbh. United paid £89m to Juventus who in turn paid the agent out of the fee.

If he resigns for united during his contract or is sold on for >50m then Juve are entitled to the extra €5m

So united pay the agent then Yeh? Simples

Liam O

So the moral of the story is that Higuain cost more than Pogba?

bucketybuck

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Funny how we're arguably a worse side since he's been left out also.

You'd like this to be true, but it isn't.

Crimson King wrote: »

Dont get the confusion tbh. United paid £89m to Juventus who in turn paid the agent out of the fee.

Its not even accurate to say Juventus paid the agent out of the fee. United no more paid the agent than my employer paid my rent this month.

bangkok

Pogba is world class, would walk onto any team in world football. 23 years of age, worth every penny we paid for him

secman

bangkok wrote: »

Pogba is world class, would walk onto any team in world football. 23 years of age, worth every penny we paid for him

Sooner the better he remembers he's world class

Headshot

secman wrote: »

Sooner the better he remembers he's world class

He's an outstanding talent but is still relatively young and needs to be built around.

adox

bangkok wrote: »

Pogba is world class, would walk onto any team in world football. 23 years of age, worth every penny we paid for him

He's certainly not worth every penny IMO.

Utd overpaid for him.

Headshot

adox wrote: »

He's certainly not worth every penny IMO.

Utd overpaid for him.

You got to think of the future and soon these prices will be normal for big teams

adox

Headshot wrote: »

You got to think of the future and soon these prices will be normal for big teams

Doesn't negate the fact(or perhaps my opinion) that we overpaid for him.

I'd also question if the timing is right for him arriving back at the club. He's so specialised a player that a team does really need to be built around him to function properly and the current Utd team look in no way ready.

I'm getting tired of the club buying midfielders that aren't proper midfielders. We have a collection of midfield players that all(or most)need to be accomadated somehow and can't play in a traditional two.

adox

secman wrote: »

Sooner the better he remembers he's world class

Is he world class though at present? I don't think so. He certainly has some world class attributes but it's not the same thing.

Trigger

Well supposedly Real Madrid are going to offer Juve 100m for Dybala, looks like the fees are only going one way so in 4/5 years time this fee could look like a bargain. Right now though it looks like a definite overspend and will continue to look like one until the fees follow that upward trend.

Trigger

adox wrote: »

Is he world class though at present? I don't think so. He certainly has some world class attributes but it's not the same thing.

I think we should be saying, he has the attributes to become world class rather than saying he is already world class, though different people have different meanings of those words.

beno619

I think we'd have been better off with a player like Kante.

Herrera & Kante at the base of the midfield with Mata or Miki at #10.

As other posters have said Pogba is 23 not 18, I haven't seen anyone use Lingards age as an excuse for his poor performances this season.

deaddonkey15

bucketybuck wrote: »

You'd like this to be true, but it isn't.

Recent results and performances could have fooled me. Are you saying we have become a better side since he was dropped? When did we last score a league goal when Rooney hasn't been on the pitch?

bangkok

Lads pogba has played 8 premier league games. EIGHT.

New league, new manager, new players, new house, no pre season, let him adapt to the surroundings. He is world class and has been for juventus for the past 2-3 seasons.

Every club in the world would have wanted him and we beat Real Madrid in signing him. Don't be so quick to judge him. 2 years time I think we will be talking about the best player in the world and future ballon dor winner

glued

Can't believe that some of these players keep running to the press to save their own skins. Rooney and Carrick being the worst offenders.

Lord TSC

Pogba's first eight games this season vs last.



Went on to get 7 goals and 14 assists in the next 33 apperances after that.

J. Marston

glued wrote: »

Can't believe that some of these players keep running to the press to save their own skins. Rooney and Carrick being the worst offenders.

I'd believe it with Rooney.

Don't think Carrick would be at that stuff. He seems too boring to be involved with behind the scenes machinations and skulduggery.

bmcc10

Will Mkhitaryan play tomorrow?

Sand

J. Marston wrote: »

I'd believe it with Rooney.

Don't think Carrick would be at that stuff. He seems too boring to be involved with behind the scenes machinations and skulduggery.

Maybe Carrick is the quiet Littlefinger in the Game of Managers at Old Trafford?

Liam O

adox wrote: »

He's certainly not worth every penny IMO.

Utd overpaid for him.

What do you class as overpaying? There are sources saying that in the first 3 weeks of his shirt sales that they were worth between 160-190m to adidas who no doubt paid a lot for advertising him. By most accounts United get between 15-20% of shirt sales. There's already a massive chunk off the fee.

Wasn't there something that said in relative terms buying Pogba for 90m was the same as WBA paying 15m for a player?

Liam O

beno619 wrote: »

I think we'd have been better off with a player like Kante.

Herrera & Kante at the base of the midfield with Mata or Miki at #10.

As other posters have said Pogba is 23 not 18, I haven't seen anyone use Lingards age as an excuse for his poor performances this season.

I don't think Lingard has been poor at all. Had the bad first half against City and not really upto much the last day but has been making very smart runs and actually seems to like to pass to his teammates and not ignore them and run away.

Sand

Liam O wrote: »

What do you class as overpaying? There are sources saying that in the first 3 weeks of his shirt sales that they were worth between 160-190m to adidas who no doubt paid a lot for advertising him. By most accounts United get between 15-20% of shirt sales. There's already a massive chunk off the fee.

Wasn't there something that said in relative terms buying Pogba for 90m was the same as WBA paying 15m for a player?

Well, it is the case that Pogba cost less to United in terms of revenue than Veron did. And Veron cost 9-10 times what Keane cost only a decade before. With the massive devaluation of the pound, you can expect the GBP figures on large transfers of players into the EPL to go up...at least 20% up so Pogba will look more and more like a bargain.

bangkok

glued wrote: »

Can't believe that some of these players keep running to the press to save their own skins. Rooney and Carrick being the worst offenders.

Source?

Trigger

bmcc10 wrote: »

Will Mkhitaryan play tomorrow?

Who ****in knows these days :pac:

bucketybuck

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Recent results and performances could have fooled me.

Thats hardly a challenge.

Lord TSC

The main reason I won't slate Pogba too much is that against Stoke and against Pool, he set up chances for Ibra on a golden platter. If Ibra puts those away, then everyone would be saying Pogba's assists were brilliant, etc. So I find it too harsh to say "Pogba is ****" when he is let down badly by the striker on those chances. Ibra buries those two, and things look so, so much better for everyone.

deaddonkey15

bucketybuck wrote: »

Thats hardly a challenge.

Very good. A childish personal swipe instead of answering my question. When did the improved Rooney-less United last score a league goal? Or a goal in any competition even?

beno619

Lord TSC wrote: »

The main reason I won't slate Pogba too much is that against Stoke and against Pool, he set up chances for Ibra on a golden platter. If Ibra puts those away, then everyone would be saying Pogba's assists were brilliant, etc. So I find it too harsh to say "Pogba is ****" when he is let down badly by the striker on those chances. Ibra buries those two, and things look so, so much better for everyone.

He was below par vs Stoke & anonymous against Pool otherwise.

It's laughable to say Pogba was let down by Zlatan.

Rooney was serving up the odd assist and goal and being slated for the muck he produced overwise at the start of the season.

bucketybuck

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Very good. A childish personal swipe instead of answering my question. When did the improved Rooney-less United last score a league goal? Or a goal in any competition even?

Why would I bother to entertain your cheerleading? Besides, when you need to narrow the issue to very specific parameters and ignore all context for your point to hold any water at all then you don't have much of an argument anyway. When did United last score a soccer goal without Rooney pushing the ball goalwards through sheer force of will? Who gives a shit.

Face it, you can say United are worse without Rooney if you want but most people happen to have seen the games and know that it isn't true, (which probably explains the complete lack of anybody calling for Rooney to return despite us just suffering a 4-0 tanking). So, keep banging that drum, credibility is overrated anyway.