Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

bucketybuck

Lord TSC wrote: »

The main reason I won't slate Pogba too much is that against Stoke and against Pool, he set up chances for Ibra on a golden platter.

Thats on a par with those people who excused Van Gaals ****e performances because we were picking up wins and results before Christmas 2014.

The assists are very welcome but its the overall performances that are the most important thing, and so far Pogba has been very poor in that regard. Even against Fenerbache I thought he was incredibly poor up until the goal, and while the goal was good and while it was important it would be foolish to ignore that in fact this player in a pivotal position is actually playing really, really poorly.

Flint Fredstone

When did Rooney last score a goal for Manchester United?
August 14th, gameweek 2.

I seem to remember one or two posters championing the stats back then. 1 goal and 2 assists in 3 games I think it was. Funny those kind of stats weren't brought up again as the barren games piled up.

unplayable

Jose bitching to the press that his life is horrible in Manchester and he doesn't know if he will buy a house in the area isn't going down well with me... On the eve of a big game making it all about him as per usual!

https://twitter.com/guardian_sport/status/791056515184623616

Flint Fredstone

unplayable wrote: »

Jose bitching to the press that his life is horrible in Manchester and he doesn't know if he will buy a house in the area isn't going down well with me... On the eve of a big game making it all about him as per usual!

https://twitter.com/guardian_sport/status/791056515184623616

Meh. A nothing article. He doesn't say his life is horrible in Manchester at all.
He said his living arrangements are a bit of a disaster, as regards his family still living in London.

Usual craic, press jump on the word disaster and try to make a mountain out of a molehill.
I forgot to plug my phone in last night, woke up with 8% battery. Disaster...

duffman13

I think Mkhitaryan starts tonight. If he doesn't ill be extremely worried. He's back from injury and needs some game time, drop him in at no.10 or on the right wing and let him stretch his legs. Id like to see Schneiderlin and Fosu Mensah, with Baillys injury CB could be a huge issue in then next 2 months.

jayo26

unplayable wrote: »

Jose bitching to the press that his life is horrible in Manchester and he doesn't know if he will buy a house in the area isn't going down well with me... On the eve of a big game making it all about him as per usual!

https://twitter.com/guardian_sport/status/791056515184623616

I see we have another Sherlock Holmes on our hands here. If you actually source the article where it all came from he was asked about living at the lowery and he said it's a bit of a disaster as he has no privacy and he won't buy a house in Manchester but an apartment instead because his family are still based in London and he don't need a house.

That's not word for word but it's a damn lot closer then reading a chappy headline or tweet. I love how when a couple results don't go the way people want it they pick up the first thing to beat him with.

He has to talk to the press if he doesn't he gets finedone or fans are on his back asking why he ain't talking and if he does talk to them then he is accused of making it all about him.

Panthro

bangkok wrote: »

Lads pogba has played 8 premier league games. EIGHT.

New league, new manager, new players, new house, no pre season, let him adapt to the surroundings. He is world class and has been for juventus for the past 2-3 seasons.

Every club in the world would have wanted him and we beat Real Madrid in signing him. Don't be so quick to judge him. 2 years time I think we will be talking about the best player in the world and future ballon dor winner

Is Manchester united really all that new to him though? Was he not in the youth academy, reserve team and get a few call ups for the first team between 2009-2012? His only real transition is surely full on playing time in the first team.

deaddonkey15

bucketybuck wrote: »

Why would I bother to entertain your cheerleading? Besides, when you need to narrow the issue to very specific parameters and ignore all context for your point to hold any water at all then you don't have much of an argument anyway. When did United last score a soccer goal without Rooney pushing the ball goalwards through sheer force of will? Who gives a shit.

Face it, you can say United are worse without Rooney if you want but most people happen to have seen the games and know that it isn't true, (which probably explains the complete lack of anybody calling for Rooney to return despite us just suffering a 4-0 tanking). So, keep banging that drum, credibility is overrated anyway.

Narrow the issue to very specific parameters? It's simple really. The majority of people reckon we'd be a better side with Rooney benched. He's now benched and we're struggling to even score a goal let alone win a match in which he hasn't started. Nothing specific about that. And that's improvement in your opinion? All I said was we are arguably a worse side since he was dropped and in terms of scoring goals, it's true.

bucketybuck

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

All I said was we are arguably a worse side since he was dropped and in terms of scoring goals, it's true.

Its true that you said it, yes.

bangkok

Panthro wrote: »

Is Manchester united really all that new to him though? Was he not in the youth academy, reserve team and get a few call ups for the first team between 2009-2012? His only real transition is surely full on playing time in the first team.

yes it is, new manager, new players, new league (he never really played last time) a world record transfer fee to live up to. There was always going to be a transition period.

Panthro

bangkok wrote: »

yes it is, new manager, new players, new league (he never really played last time) a world record transfer fee to live up to. There was always going to be a transition period.

I'd say fair enough if he landed out in Qatar for the very first time but it's Manchester. He's already lived there, he knows the ground, the facilities, a lot of the people already. He's got a certain amount of familiarity on his side, as I said the main thing that's new is the first team playing time

bangkok

Panthro wrote: »

I'd say fair enough if he landed out in Qatar for the very first time but it's Manchester. He's already lived there, he knows the ground, the facilities, a lot of the people already. He's got a certain amount of familiarity on his side, as I said the main thing that's new is the first team playing time

What about outside of that, settling in a new house, getting to know players on the pitch, instructions from a manager who is not even sure what his best 11 is yet, the British press slating you at every opportunity. If you thought pogba was going to start like a house on fire you were nearly guaranteed to be let down. There has been moments of brilliance already. Once team is settled and players know what they have to do you will see the real pogba. He is IMO a genius.

Also the premier league is the most competitive it has ever been and every single player is playing out of their skin against pogba whereas they might not be like that if they were playing against Joe Allen or glen whelan

Cantona's Collars

Lol at the sensational headline that living in Manchester is a disaster for Jose,just saw that bit of his interview. The disaster is that the paparazzi know which hotel he is in and give him no privacy. His kids are 17 and 20 and are in Uni in London. He'll buy an apartment that has private parking to keep away from paparazzi and he laughed at the speculation he's going to buy a giant house,he doesn't need one.

Mantis Toboggan

Huge game again tonight, must win game imo, another heavy defeat could be detrimental, is Jose likely to to rest a few or go with his strongest 11?

Cantona's Collars

Just saw that Jones has played 45 minutes of football in 2016. It's 300 days since he last played.

bangkok

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Huge game again tonight, must win game imo, another heavy defeat could be detrimental, is Jose likely to to rest a few or go with his strongest 11?

Have to go with the strongest 11. Its more than just a league cup game

StringerBell

I wouldn't be surprised to not see Miki tonight either tbh, Jose will really want the win here. I can see a practically first choice XI being selected and Miki is not part of that right now, hopefully he will be on the bench though. If it were against different opposition then I would be expecting him to start but not City.

KH25

zerks wrote: »

Just saw that Jones has played 45 minutes of football in 2016. It's 300 days since he last played.

It's awful. He has bags of potential to be a great player IMO but injuries have just ruined him. He can't even seem to keep fit on the training pitch. Not nice to see at all.

Tom.D.BJJ

Does anyone know whats going on with Schneiderlin? To my mind, Morgan/ Herrera/Pogba in midfield would be a brilliant combination.

Mantis Toboggan

bangkok wrote: »

Have to go with the strongest 11. Its more than just a league cup game

Yeah, depends what is our strongest 11, I'd like to see Zlatan dropped and go with either rashers or martial up front, we need to get players with pace into the team.

TheDoc

Panthro wrote: »

bangkok wrote: »

Lads pogba has played 8 premier league games. EIGHT.

New league, new manager, new players, new house, no pre season, let him adapt to the surroundings. He is world class and has been for juventus for the past 2-3 seasons.

Every club in the world would have wanted him and we beat Real Madrid in signing him. Don't be so quick to judge him. 2 years time I think we will be talking about the best player in the world and future ballon dor winner

Is Manchester united really all that new to him though? Was he not in the youth academy, reserve team and get a few call ups for the first team between 2009-2012? His only real transition is surely full on playing time in the first team.

Pogba made like 2 appearances under Sir Alex Ferguson in the Premier League, both as substitutes in games where the result was decided.
Pogba needs to be provided the same settling in time as everyone else. His should be easier from his familiarity with the club, the country the weather etc. But let's not forget, this is a guy who has no premier league football experience. That seems to be too easily forgotten

TheDoc

And this new boards skin, jesus....

Trigger

Hit the "Legacy site" down the bottom, should revert you.

Unearthly

KH25 wrote: »

It's awful. He has bags of potential to be a great player IMO but injuries have just ruined him. He can't even seem to keep fit on the training pitch. Not nice to see at all.

Always felt he lacked the football brains to be a great player.

Pro. F

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

When did Rooney last score a goal for Manchester United?
August 14th, gameweek 2.

I seem to remember one or two posters championing the stats back then. 1 goal and 2 assists in 3 games I think it was. Funny those kind of stats weren't brought up again as the barren games piled up.

If you are now interested in those stats, then you can see that Rooney still compares favourably to his teammates.

But of course you will now say that you aren't interested in stats and then return in a while to moan about stats.

Pro. F

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Narrow the issue to very specific parameters? It's simple really. The majority of people reckon we'd be a better side with Rooney benched. He's now benched and we're struggling to even score a goal let alone win a match in which he hasn't started. Nothing specific about that. And that's improvement in your opinion? All I said was we are arguably a worse side since he was dropped and in terms of scoring goals, it's true.

It was all Rooney's fault. Then the blame started being shifted to Ibra and Pogba. Now the entire squad needs to be gutted and rebuilt. People just like giving out about players.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

Have to go with the strongest 11. Its more than just a league cup game

Given the fatigue that must be built up at this stage, the best 11 could be anything. We could see Young as a full-back and Rojo at centre-back and those might be the best choices available right now.

Leroy42

I don' think he should field the 'best 11' for its not really clear what that is, and even if there is they have done pretty poorly.

Field those players who haven't been given a chance yet. Memphis (from the start) Martial (from the start), MickyR, Morgan, TFM, Rojo, Shaw, Darmian. Herrera and DDG to anchor the whole thing and give them the freedom to play.

I know we are in a bit of a downer at the moment, but its the league cup at the end of the day. Try something out.

duffman13

bangkok wrote: »

Have to go with the strongest 11. Its more than just a league cup game

Players need to be rested and it's going to happen on the city side anyway. Pogba needs a breather and a few lads need some game time. It's very much a league cup game and the league cup should be bottom in our list of targets. Pogba needs a breather for one and Zlatan!

duffman13

duffman13 wrote: »

Players need to be rested and it's going to happen on the city side anyway. Pogba needs a breather and a few lads need some game time. It's very much a league cup game and the league cup should be bottom in our list of targets. Pogba needs a breather for one and Zlatan!

The concern should be the injury risk also.
We already lost Baily for two months.
Rest is vital with the amount of games we are playing.

duffman13

My team for tonight is

De Gea/Romero
Shaw
Fosu Mensah/Rojo
Smalling
Darmian
Carrick
Schneiderlin
Memphis
Mata
Mkhitaryan
Rooney/Martial

Still experienced and more than capable of winning. Also gives some players a chance to stake a claim. This is what the league cup is for

adox

It's not either or with Pogba. Just because some of us are saying he has been very disappointing since his arrival doesn't mean we were expecting him to be a world beater from the off etc.

Personally I think he has been hugely underwhelming so far, never mind what the price tag was. The most worrying thing is he is the sort of player that a game can easily pass by. He doesn't seem capable of imposing his game on a match. He needs others to give him the tools to do his stuff and that is why I was speculating that he may be at the club at the wrong time.

I don't think that is an unreasonable view to hold.

Maybe it's amplified(my annoyance or frustration) with the ridiculous fee the club paid for him.

Billy86

Pogba hasn't been impressive so far, that much is true. Bit at the same time, beyond the team being disjointed etc, it has to be remembered that he is 23 years of age. I didn't think he was brought in to immediately be our best player or anything of the sort, it's not just with Pogba but generally a bit bemusing how people expect young players to be world beaters so young these days, especially in positions like CM or GK that typically take more time to fully develop in. Different types of Ayers, but at the same age as Pogba, Xavi was part of a Barcelona team not far off the relegation spots, Pirlo was only really beginning to cement hsi starting place at Milan having been sold to them by their bitter local rivals, and Roy Keane - a British transfer record - was often played in other roles as he was still developing as a player - he would only really find his peak a few years down the line.

The exact same was also said about a 20 year old David de Gea and I would imagine by a lot of the same people, only a handful of games (and indeed up to a good 2 years) into his time at Man Utd having been (if I recall) the worlds second most expensive goalkeeper ever, after buffon who at this point is top 3-5 of all time. I wonder what those same people think now that DDG has been our best player for 3-4 years I na typically marginal position, and may well at this point be the best goalkeeper in the world even ahead of Neuer.

Just something to keep in mind.

adox

I'd be very surprised if Miki started tonight. Most likely on the bench.

On one hand it's only the league cup and is the least of our priorities this season. On the other hand the team could really do with a positive result.

Some players do need a rest or indeed to be dropped.

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if Miki started tonight. Most likely on the bench.

On one hand it's only the league cup and is the least of our priorities this season. On the other hand the team could really do with a positive result.

Some players do need a rest or indeed to be dropped.

Unfortunately seems to be getting built up into a "big game". Personally couldn't give a **** about the league cup, regardless of opposition. But its been built up as a big game now, and the narrative could be pretty damaging for Mourinho if he loses, equally for Pep.
I won't hold it against him, performance or result, really don't care about tonight. Would like to see the players who havn't played much get a good chance tonight, so the likes of Memphis, Schneiderlan, Darmian and Mhky.
I can see him going either way. Field a strong team to get the result and then blow it up as a big confidence boost and ordeal, or play a massively changed side and the excuse is there for him before kickoff. The only thing relevant this week is Burnley and getting a win there, so it's cool from me if he plays a massively changed side and we lose or even get stomped.
Time to really give a chance to some of the periphery figures and see if someone steps up.

J. Marston

Mkhitaryan was awful against City a few weeks ago and Mourinho said he learned about players playing in certain games, or words to that effect.

duffman13

adox wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if Miki started tonight. Most likely on the bench.

On one hand it's only the league cup and is the least of our priorities this season. On the other hand the team could really do with a positive result.

Some players do need a rest or indeed to be dropped.

A result at the weekend is more important, there is too much at risk to field a "full strength side"

Even if we lose tonight I don't think it would detrimental to the psyche of the players rested. The league cup is bottom on our list of priorities and it should stay that way regardless of the opposition.

J. Marston

J. Marston wrote: »

Mkhitaryan was awful against City a few weeks ago and Mourinho said he learned about players playing in certain games, or words to that effect.

45 minute assessment of a player??

Harsh

adox

J. Marston wrote: »

Mkhitaryan was awful against City a few weeks ago and Mourinho said he learned about players playing in certain games, or words to that effect.

Lingard was equally as bad in that game and was hauled off too and he's featured plenty since.

I don't think he will start tonight purely because he hasn't featured in the squad at all recently since injury. A sub appearance I would guess.

We are all speculating but I don't buy the whole "why isn't he being picked" " Jose mustn't rate/trust him". He has started off slowly, been injured and doesn't seem to being rushed back. That's what I read of it.

bucketybuck

Billy86 wrote: »

Pogba hasn't been impressive so far, that much is true. Bit at the same time, beyond the team being disjointed etc, it has to be remembered that he is 23 years of age. I didn't think he was brought in to immediately be our best player or anything of the sort, it's not just with Pogba but generally a bit bemusing how people expect young players to be world beaters so young these days, especially in positions like CM or GK that typically take more time to fully develop in.

World beater? I'd take Premier league standard from him at this point.

But I don't agree with the sentiment that he is "just" 23, he isn't a spotty teenager any more. To repeat what I said before, he has over 100 senior club appearances, 40+ international appearances, multiple league titles, 2 cups, and has played in two of the biggest games in world in the CL and European cup finals. He's younger than me, thats for sure, but in football terms he is old enough to give us a little bit more than we are getting.

And no, that doesn't necessarily mean tear up the league, just to show a bit more than he has, he is in too important a position to be carried for 6 months.

PhlegmyMoses

Bailly being out is **** but it means we need to go back to blind and smalling asap. Get Shaw out left, none of this Rojo crap.

PhlegmyMoses

bucketybuck wrote: »

World beater? I'd take Premier league standard from him at this point.

But I don't agree with the sentiment that he is "just" 23, he isn't a spotty teenager any more. To repeat what I said before, he has over 100 senior club appearances, 40+ international appearances, multiple league titles, 2 cups, and has played in two of the biggest games in world in the CL and European cup finals. He's younger than me, thats for sure, but in football terms he is old enough to give us a little bit more than we are getting.

And no, that doesn't necessarily mean tear up the league, just to show a bit more than he has, he is in too important a position to be carried for 6 months.

I generally agree with your point, but I'm honestly done with chopping and changing at this point. Give him more games and let him play himself into form. Same sentiment for any player who has looked good before coming to us and is suddenly playing well below themselves

beno619

I know every hates Rojo but I though he did well when he came on at the weekend.

Panthro

TheDoc wrote: »

Pogba made like 2 appearances under Sir Alex Ferguson in the Premier League, both as substitutes in ute where the result was decided.
Pogba needs to be provided the same settling in time as everyone else. His should be easier from his familiarity with the club, the country the weather etc. But let's not forget, this is a guy who has no premier league football experience. That seems to be too easily forgotten

Thats pretty much what I'm saying. All's not new to him bar the amount of first team playing time he'll be getting. Hes got an added advantage in that he already knows the club, a lot of the players, the location, facilities etc.

bangkok

duffman13 wrote: »

My team for tonight is

De Gea/Romero
Shaw
Fosu Mensah/Rojo
Smalling
Darmian
Carrick
Schneiderlin
Memphis
Mata
Mkhitaryan
Rooney/Martial

Still experienced and more than capable of winning. Also gives some players a chance to stake a claim. This is what the league cup is for

I'd say there is no chance that depay or schneiderlain start tonight, no matter what competition it is, it is still a Manchester derby that nobody will want to lose especially us

crkball6

Panthro wrote: »

Thats pretty much what I'm saying. All's not new to him bar the amount of first team playing time he'll be getting. Hes got an added advantage in that he already knows the club, a lot of the players, the location, facilities etc.

He doesn't make a bad decision or make a good one based on the fact he knows Mary in the canteen.

The difference is a new team who are not just new to him but have a spine and a way of playing that's new to them. A manager that's new to the team and new to him and he's playing in a different league.

The fact he knows where the local post office is not really going to define the start of his career at united.

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

J. Marston wrote: »

Mkhitaryan was awful against City a few weeks ago and Mourinho said he learned about players playing in certain games, or words to that effect.

Lingard was equally as bad in that game and was hauled off too and he's featured plenty since.

I don't think he will start tonight purely because he hasn't featured in the squad at all recently since injury. A sub appearance I would guess.

We are all speculating but I don't buy the whole "why isn't he being picked" " Jose mustn't rate/trust him". He has started off slowly, been injured and doesn't seem to being rushed back. That's what I read of it.

I guess depending on who you might put credit to, but a few Manchester based journalists had some differing stories this week about poor Henrik.
One seemed to take the line that player has miffed Mourinho with a slack attitude in training and through his recovery from injury.
Another indicates that he was a target for Van Gaal, but there was concerns about the player from coaching staff at the club. I didn't read into it more then that, but it's definitly concerning to hear these sort of things with a player who has 45 minutes of play.
And this isn't some prospect, this is a like 27 year old top quality player.
Mourinho continuing his wonderful record or just ruining good wide players?

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

duffman13 wrote: »

My team for tonight is

De Gea/Romero
Shaw
Fosu Mensah/Rojo
Smalling
Darmian
Carrick
Schneiderlin
Memphis
Mata
Mkhitaryan
Rooney/Martial

Still experienced and more than capable of winning. Also gives some players a chance to stake a claim. This is what the league cup is for

I'd say there is no chance that depay or schneiderlain start tonight, no matter what competition it is, it is still a Manchester derby that nobody will want to lose especially us

Thinking about it more, wouldn't put it past Mourinho to field a mental team and have the excuse there before kick off. Confidence low, his trust in players must be low, why risk taking another hit in a pretty bad week. When from this weekend the narrative will change, and has to change. A run of wins simply has to be put together in the coming weeks, and then this week will be forgotten about.

https://twitter.com/RedorDead07/status/791242597121613824

The_Kew_Tour

astradave wrote: »

Hit the "Legacy site" down the bottom, should revert you.

What a lifesaver! Never noticed it till now.:)