Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

Cantona's Collars

GSPfan wrote: »

Its mad the transfer window is still open and we aren't all talking about how Ed Woodward is a joke and the club is a laughing stock. We should be posting links from twitter claiming our bids are being prepared right now.

Do you all think Sky ar calming down on their transfer window bollox too? The last two deadline days on Sky have been awfully boring so hopefully they are realising how embarrassing it looks when they build it up and the clubs don't have anything happening.

Ed has proven himself to be very good at getting stuff done.No CL football yet he has gotten top talent in from Di Maria to Pogba.

The whole clueless Ed thing seems to be down to Moyes,no wonder he got the name Dithering Dave.How was Ed meant to get deals done when Moyes spent all the time scouting players then forgetting that some actual negotiations needed to take place.It's like going shopping with a woman who drags you around endless shops looking at stuff then heads back to the first store only to find it is closing so she grabs anything from the rail.

Adamocovic

ShaneU wrote: »

If Evans is worth £25m we should be asking for at least £90m

Evans was sold by us for around £7million.

West Brom are only valuing him at £25million as he is a key member of their team and they don't want to sell him, if they are forced to sell him they want over the top money, but that requires the team who want the player to be desperate enough to pay it and have the money available.

Think it's a bit silly in my opinion for people to expect Woodward to get £25+million for Jones, and as I said that with me being a huge Jones fan.

Flint Fredstone

Adamocovic wrote: »

Evans was sold by us for around £7million.

West Brom are only valuing him at £25million as he is a key member of their team and they don't want to sell him, if they are forced to sell him they want over the top money, but that requires the team who want the player to be desperate enough to pay it and have the money available.

Think it's a bit silly in my opinion for people to expect Woodward to get £25+million for Jones, and as I said that with me being a huge Jones fan.

Yep. It's a massive gamble for whoever takes him. His potential will never be realised if he doesn't start stringing appearances together.

GSPfan

GSPfan wrote: »

Its mad the transfer window is still open and we aren't all talking about how Ed Woodward is a joke and the club is a laughing stock. We should be posting links from twitter claiming our bids are being prepared right now.

Do you all think Sky ar calming down on their transfer window bollox too? The last two deadline days on Sky have been awfully boring so hopefully they are realising how embarrassing it looks when they build it up and the clubs don't have anything happening.

It's so refreshing.
I absolutely despise transfer deadline day and all that horse-****e.
It just spells out dithering from any given club who is leaving business to the very end of the window unless it's an emergency situation such as a player getting injured long term in pre-season
Also, Jim White makes me cringe every-time he speaks.
If only they did it outside the stadiums again and let Jim Stand outside Tyne to be greeted by a big dildo in the ear

Cantona's Collars

M!Ck^ wrote: »

It's so refreshing.
I absolutely despise transfer deadline day and all that horse-****e.
It just spells out dithering from any given club who is leaving business to the very end of the window unless it's an emergency situation such as a player getting injured long term in pre-season
Also, Jim White makes me cringe every-time he speaks.
If only they did it outside the stadiums again and let Jim Stand outside Tyne to be greeted by a big dildo in the ear

This year they are putting reporters outside the clubs of all the players Wenger could have signed,they are rumoured to be taking on extra staff for this.

zerks

zerks wrote: »

This year they are putting reporters outside the clubs of all the players Wenger could have signed,they are rumoured to be taking on extra staff for this.

More than likely security so :pac:

Maximus Alexander

GSPfan wrote: »

Its mad the transfer window is still open and we aren't all talking about how Ed Woodward is a joke and the club is a laughing stock. We should be posting links from twitter claiming our bids are being prepared right now.

Do you all think Sky ar calming down on their transfer window bollox too? The last two deadline days on Sky have been awfully boring so hopefully they are realising how embarrassing it looks when they build it up and the clubs don't have anything happening.

I forgot the window was still open.

bucketybuck

Adamocovic wrote: »

Evans was sold by us for around £7million.

West Brom are only valuing him at £25million as he is a key member of their team and they don't want to sell him, if they are forced to sell him they want over the top money, but that requires the team who want the player to be desperate enough to pay it and have the money available.

Think it's a bit silly in my opinion for people to expect Woodward to get £25+million for Jones, and as I said that with me being a huge Jones fan.

Its not silly at all when you consider all the details.

He is young, high profile, highly rated, English, plays an important position, there aren't many top alternatives out there, clubs have already expressed interest, he is tied to a long contract, the club don't need the money and even small teams now have crazy money at their disposal. On the negative side he has a patchy injury record.

Thats a summary that would give any good salesman an erection. This isn't like trying to sell somebody like Paddy McNair, in todays market I would fully expect any competent seller to be pushing for a damn good price for Phil Jones.

Billy86

Adamocovic wrote: »

Sorry forgot he signed a new contract.

Still believe that expecting to get £25+ million for him is unrealistic

Would 100% agree. Someone mentioned the Stones fee & reported demands WBA have put on Evans, but those two were hugely important to their teams which always increases the cost significantly. I'd say Jones would likely be in the 10-15mn range, probably with add-ons for appearances etc (which is only fair given his injury history).

Billy86

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Oh my, what a photogenic young man. Why I don't see how he nor his facial expressions could possibly look anything other than impeccable at every moment of the day.

Adamocovic

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its not silly at all when you consider all the details.

He is young, high profile, highly rated, English, plays an important position, there aren't many top alternatives out there, clubs have already expressed interest, he is tied to a long contract, the club don't need the money and even small teams now have crazy money at their disposal. On the negative side he has a patchy injury record.

Thats a summary that would give any good salesman an erection. This isn't like trying to sell somebody like Paddy McNair, in todays market I would fully expect any competent seller to be pushing for a damn good price for Phil Jones.

Well have to agree to disagree on this one.

Now I'm not saying it is impossible that a team is desperate enough and decide to pay over +£25million for Jones, but I do feel it is extremely unlikely and I would stand by my opinion that it is kind of silly to demand that or have that expectation.

A transfer of +£25 million would put Jones into the list of around the top 15most expensive defender transfers of all time. Now that is a player who has missed 80+ games with injury at the age of 24.

I cannot at all agree with the opinion that if he is to go we should expect a hefty transfer fee due to the fact that a highly sought after player of John Stones fetched a huge fee, or based on the fact that West Brom have said they want £25million for Johnny Evans.

While saying you feel we should be able to get a large sum of +£25million for Jones you also said of Woodward.

In this market if Woodward can't sell the potential in a 24 year old England international that Alex Ferguson once described as a club legend in the making then he can't sell anything.

In the case of Jones Woodward would not be selling a player who is highly sought after and an extremely important member of our squad, which generally drums up transfer costs. So I would consider the expectations of huge money to be kind of silly.

If Woodward managed to sell Jones for +£25million it would be one of the best sales we've ever conducted and Woodward would have to be applauded for somehow managing to get that sort of deal done, it should not by any means be an expected thing.

bucketybuck

Billy86 wrote: »

but those two were hugely important to their teams which always increases the cost significantly.

Calling them hugely important is just another way of saying the club don't want to sell. Jones might not be hugely important to us, but we don't need the money at all and it wouldn't cause any problem just to keep him as a reserve.

So we don't need to sell just as much as those clubs don't want to sell, and thats every bit as influential a bargaining chip.

Make it clear that we will just keep him if the price isn't right and who is to say that one of these newly rich clubs with a need for a good defender won't just pay the money.

Billy86

I like 6am-12pm on transfer deadline day, or thereabouts. Usually a lot of activity from clubs just wrapping things up, not many big signings but it gives you an idea of what the teams will look like and it's usually easy to see how said signings will slot in. The very rare late bit (8-10pmish) can be fun too, but only if 2-3 clubs are still chasing big players that could seriously impact their season; us and Berbatov in 2008 for example was a lot of fun.

Typically though, it's a pile of arse.

dubmick

Anyone know if there was a fee for Blackett?

Adamocovic

bucketybuck wrote: »

Calling them hugely important is just another way of saying the club don't want to sell. Jones might not be hugely important to us, but we don't need the money at all and it wouldn't cause any problem just to keep him as a reserve.

So we don't need to sell just as much as those clubs don't want to sell, and thats every bit as influential a bargaining chip.

Make it clear that we will just keep him if the price isn't right and who is to say that one of these newly rich clubs with a need for a good defender won't just pay the money.

Ah yes what a great way to treat a player that has served his club very well in the past.

You honestly think that if a good offer around his market value comes in we should tell them to get stuffed, throw Jones into reserves and tell him we won't sell him unless a huge fee is offered by a club for him. That doesn't exactly give out a good image of the club for prospective players.

It's common practice to over value a player who is an important part of the squad in an attempt of getting compensation from the fact you don't want them sold but to do so for a player you feel is 4th backup or so is just baffling.

Billy86

bucketybuck wrote: »

Calling them hugely important is just another way of saying the club don't want to sell. Jones might not be hugely important to us, but we don't need the money at all and it wouldn't cause any problem just to keep him as a reserve.

So we don't need to sell just as much as those clubs don't want to sell, and thats every bit as influential a bargaining chip.

Make it clear that we will just keep him if the price isn't right and who is to say that one of these newly rich clubs with a need for a good defender won't just pay the money.

We don't need to sell... unless Mourinho doesn't want him around, or unless he is unhappy sitting on the bench and is showing it, or if we need to clear his wages to bring others in etc etc.

So long as he isn't playing much for us, he is just money being flushed down the drain. That's a whole different thing to sell than someone playing week in, week out.

Tell you what, and this is a one-way bet so you don't owe me anything back if we hypothetically sold him for a used welly. But if we sell him this window, for every 1mn pounds (don't have the symbol on this keyboard!) over 15mn that we still Jones for, pick out any bet you want on Paddy Power (the catch: it must be at least 50/1 odds - accumulators are allowed!) and I'll put 2 Euro on it. So if we sell him for 20mn I'll put a tenner on it, if we sell him for 25mn I'll put a score on it etc. If the bet comes off, we split the winnings 50/50 over Paypal or whatever!

*Can't put any bets on until Friday Sep 23rd though because I'm out of the country and Paddy froze my account because of tax laws or some sh!te here.

Bradz213

GSPfan wrote: »

Its mad the transfer window is still open and we aren't all talking about how Ed Woodward is a joke and the club is a laughing stock. We should be posting links from twitter claiming our bids are being prepared right now.

Do you all think Sky ar calming down on their transfer window bollox too? The last two deadline days on Sky have been awfully boring so hopefully they are realising how embarrassing it looks when they build it up and the clubs don't have anything happening.

I think this years transfer deadline will be mental. All the foreign clubs quoting ridiculous prices to try get more money from English clubs will have a quickfire sale on deadline day.

bucketybuck

Adamocovic wrote: »

Ah yes what a great way to treat a player that has served his club very well in the past.

You honestly think that if a good offer around his market value comes in we should tell them to get stuffed, throw Jones into reserves and tell him we won't sell him unless a huge fee is offered by a club for him. That doesn't exactly give out a good image of the club for prospective players.

It's common practice to over value a player who is an important part of the squad in an attempt of getting compensation from the fact you don't want them sold but to do so for a player you feel is 4th backup or so is just baffling.

His market value? You seem to have completely missed that the market has changed, that there is a flood of cash in the english leagues and that players are selling for prices far beyond what once would have been their market value. Thats why it would be irrelevant if he was the 15th most expensive transfer of all time, the market has changed.

Of course 4/5 seasons ago we wouldn't have gotten big money for him, but now £25m+ is an average price and not some fantastic deal like you say.

Moral looks to be sky-high

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/768081560578973696

Adamocovic

bucketybuck wrote: »

His market value? You seem to have completely missed that the market has changed, that there is a flood of cash in the english leagues and that players are selling for prices far beyond what once would have been their market value. Thats why it would be irrelevant if he was the 15th most expensive transfer of all time, the market has changed.

Of course 4/5 seasons ago we wouldn't have gotten big money for him, but now £25m+ is an average price and not some fantastic deal like you say.

I haven't missed the ever changing football market and costs that come with it, you do know market value refers to his valuation based on what people would be willing to spend and what he is currently worth in this market, so I don't get the question mark.

So you feel that it should be expected from Woodward and club, that if they do sell Jones we should be getting +£25million for him. You are aware that in the current market (last 2 years or so) the CBs who have gone for this figure are Mats Hummels, John Stones, Otamendi,Mangala, David Luiz and Eric Bailly.

You really think that is the level Phil Jones is at and the price expected to come with him? And I thought I was Jones biggest fan.

Mitch Connor

Adamocovic wrote: »

I haven't missed the ever changing football market and costs that come with it, you do know market value refers to his valuation based on what people would be willing to spend and what he is currently worth in this market, so I don't get the question mark.

So you feel that it should be expected from Woodward and club, that if they do sell Jones we should be getting +£25million for him. You are aware that in the current market (last 2 years or so) the CBs who have gone for this figure are Mats Hummels, John Stones, Otamendi,Mangala, David Luiz and Eric Bailly.

You really think that is the level Phil Jones is at and the price expected to come with him? And I thought I was Jones biggest fan.

Mats hummels was last year of his contract. Stones just went for 50million, Luiz went for 50million. Mangala went for 36 to 42million or something along those lines.

Cantona's Collars

13 different angles of Zlatan's first goal at OT.

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Features/2016/Aug/Video-13-angles-of-Zlatan-Ibrahimovic-first-Old-Trafford-goal.aspx?newsid=471706E1-74DA-4442-9E04-1500A80132F9

Adamocovic

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Mats hummels was last year of his contract. Stones just went for 50million, Luiz went for 50million. Mangala went for 36 to 42million or something along those lines.

That's what they went for in euros.

It takes nothing away from my points that in recent times those are the centre backs who have been sold for +£25million (or +€30million) if you rather.

How on earth should it be an expectation or a given for Woodward to fetch +£25million (or +€30million) for Phil Jones?

Jesus. I'm one of his biggest fans but if Woodward can force a club to pay over 30 million euro for the man he is a wizard.

EDIT:
In Euro:
Stones: 55.6 Million
Luiz: 49.50 Million
Otamendi: 44.6 Million
Bailly: 38 Million
Hummels: 35 Million
Mangala: 30.5 Million

Now Jones, a player how had been praised by many when younger but has as of yet failed to reach full potential, and also has a history of injuries (as I've said has missed 80+ matches due to injury and hasn't turned 25 yet), who is failing to even make our bench at the moment.

But despite all that there is a group of people who feel that if he is to be sold we should be at minimum expecting Woodward to get over 30million euro for him and if he fails to do so he has nothing about him and can't sell anything, due to the fact that there is money in the market.

As I have said many times and it probably has been clear in the past from some of my posts, I love Jones, think he's a true warrior of a player and has passion, would love to see him playing more, but I cannot, not in a million years, not ever, not fathom at all, the idea that if he is to go this window the minimum expectation from Woodward would be to get over €30million pounds for him.

If Woodward convinced a team to pay over €30million for Jones it would not be an expectation or a minimum job done, that would be one of the best deals we've done selling a player. It would be a huge deal by him.

Rossi IRL

Id take £12m for Jones.

He isnt worth any more than that.

TheDoc

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Id take £12m for Jones.

He isnt worth any more than that.

Worth and value just isn't even a thing anymore, and hasn't been for some time.

He's worth what a club will pay for him. I know that sounds really obvious, but it's been very interesting to see the reaction to transfer fees this summer. I've quickly come to the realisation of metric of worth is just way behind, and actually all that matters is what the buying club can afford, and if the selling club are happy to offload.

There would be a metric not so long ago, that Jones would actually have tangible worth at around £3m. But again, even that wasn't "really" tangible.

There are a few clubs around the league sweating for a centre half. And while he is a crock, there is obvious talent and promise there. Someone would take a punt, and the cliche that maybe a fresh environment might give him a fresh start, a clean slate.

I know it's irrelevant, but wouldn't mind our club maybe getting some outragous money for surplus players. Barca, Real and Bayern seem to fetch mental money at ease for players, yet we seem to firesale them. Probably because it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

But you probably could easily fetch £20m for him. He is only like 24 or whatever.

Mitch Connor

Adamocovic wrote: »

That's what they went for in euros.

It takes nothing away from my points that in recent times those are the centre backs who have been sold for +£25million (or +€30million) if you rather.

How on earth should it be an expectation or a given for Woodward to fetch +£25million (or +€30million) for Phil Jones?

Jesus. I'm one of his biggest fans but if Woodward can force a club to pay over 30 million euro for the man he is a wizard.

EDIT:
In Euro:
Stones: 55.6 Million
Luiz: 49.50 Million
Otamendi: 44.6 Million
Bailly: 38 Million
Hummels: 35 Million
Mangala: 30.5 Million

Now Jones, a player how had been praised by many when younger but has as of yet failed to reach full potential, and also has a history of injuries (as I've said has missed 80+ matches due to injury and hasn't turned 25 yet), who is failing to even make our bench at the moment.

But despite all that there is a group of people who feel that if he is to be sold we should be at minimum expecting Woodward to get over 30million euro for him and if he fails to do so he has nothing about him and can't sell anything, due to the fact that there is money in the market.

As I have said many times and it probably has been clear in the past from some of my posts, I love Jones, think he's a true warrior of a player and has passion, would love to see him playing more, but I cannot, not in a million years, not ever, not fathom at all, the idea that if he is to go this window the minimum expectation from Woodward would be to get over €30million pounds for him.

If Woodward convinced a team to pay over €30million for Jones it would not be an expectation or a minimum job done, that would be one of the best deals we've done selling a player. It would be a huge deal by him.

So all bar hummels (cobtract) and mangala went for significantly more, and I'm positive you have the mangala fee wrong.

Cookiemunster

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So all bar hummels (cobtract) and mangala went for significantly more, and I'm positive you have the mangala fee wrong.

Yeah Mangala was reported cost £42m. £32m to Porto and another £10m to a third party.

Adamocovic

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So all bar hummels (cobtract) and mangala went for significantly more, and I'm positive you have the mangala fee wrong.

€30.5million is what City paid Porto for Mangala, they then bought out Managalas sporting rights from the companies who owned them. The total deal City claim cost them around €37million but speculation is it could have been as high as €50 million. But the fee which they paid Porto was €30.5million.

And how are you not seeing the point I am making here?

When I first said expecting Woodward to be getting a minimum of +£25million (+€30million) for Jones was being unrealistic, people came back with the classic well the market is changing and clubs have money, I showed what players were being bought for the over £25million mark in terms of centre-backs of the past few years and then people nit pick on the details of their total cost.

So what if Stones and Luiz went for €50 million, how does that mean we should be expecting Phil Jones to bring in €30 million? Phil Jones wouldn't make the City or PSG starting squads. Hummels had two years less on his contract than Phil Jones? I know years left in contract play a part but that still doesn't mean Phil Jones will be commanding the same sort of attention and price as Matt Hummels.

You are comparing a player who when signed (backed in 2011, 5 years ago) was tipped to big things, a player who has failed to live up to the potential and expectations around him, a player who is struggling to get onto our bench, a player who with injuries concerns has nearly missed 100 matches because so, a player who creeping towards the age of 25 without showing any consistent healthy spells yet, a player who by all regards the only real interest for him yet is from Stoke, no disrespect to Stoke but it is hardly PSG, Man City, Bayern Munich like the other transfers I have listed in this price range for centre backs.

Yes Phil Jones had huge potential, hopefully still has it. But he has failed to have a successful run of fitness and show his ability and worth.

And anyone who believes Woodward isn't doing a good job, or can't sell anything if he isn't able to get +€30 million for Phil Jones is, I'm sorry but living in a fairytale.

If Woodward was able to manufacture a deal like that it would not be some bare minimum expectation of his ability, it would be an outrageously successful deal and probably some of the best business he would ever do in his life.

beno619

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Id take £12m for Jones.

He isnt worth any more than that.

I'd rather have Jones on the bench when the inevitable Injury crisis strikes than £12m pounds sitting in the bank.

Assuming Jones is happy to fight for a place.

bucketybuck

Adamocovic wrote: »

But despite all that there is a group of people who feel that if he is to be sold we should be at minimum expecting Woodward to get over 30million euro for him

30 million? Funny how that figure keep creeping up.

I'm not sure what else I can say here. I provided an absolute laundry list of reasons why Manchester United are in a strong bargaining position when it comes to Phil Jones, none of those reasons have been denied and yet the response is still that we would be crazy to expect 20/25 million for him.

You list fees for the likes of Hummels and Bailly, but why not look at some of the other transfers this summer. If Phil Jones is only worth 10-15 million then that values him similar to the likes of Jordan Ibe, Matt Ritchie, Mohamed Salah, Andros Townsend, James Tompkins, Ashley Williams, Nampalys Mendy, Joe Allen, Marten De Roon, Nathan Redmond, Borja Gonzalez, Roberto Pereyra and Isaac Success.

If 32 year Ashley Williams is worth £12 million, is it really so strange to think that 24 year old Phil Jones might garner a higher fee? At a time when a PL club actually paid money for and gave gametime to Paddy McNair, is it really so strange to think there are clubs that might see Jones as a viable target?

My original point was very simple. In a discussion about what to do with Phil Jones one factor is that because of a strong bargaining position we might actually get a sizeable fee for him, which would make it a good option to sell. Furthermore, because of that strong bargaining position I would indeed expect the club to drive a hard bargain for the player, and be disappointed if they do not. Sounds pretty straightforward to me.

Adamocovic

bucketybuck wrote: »

30 million? Funny how that figure keep creeping up.

Because you brought it up saying we should be expecting to sell Jones for that price and suggested if Woodward failed to do that he is incompetent.

bucketybuck wrote: »

But right now, with the lack of good defenders around and the flood of money pouring into the game I think United should be looking to sell, because I think if Woodward has anything about him he should be getting a hefty fee for Jones, regardless of the last few seasons.

There are lots of clubs out there with money to spend who would see Phil Jones as an investment worth making. £47m for Stones! £25m for Jonny Evans! In this market if Woodward can't sell the potential in a 24 year old England international that Alex Ferguson once described as a club legend in the making then he can't sell anything.

Even with the injury record there are managers and clubs that will see it as a gamble worth taking, and if we are talking £25m+ for a squad defender then that makes it an easy decision in my mind.

As above. I have removed passages about Welbeck however.

I'm not sure what else I can say here. I provided an absolute laundry list of reasons why Manchester United are in a strong bargaining position when it comes to Phil Jones, none of those reasons have been denied and yet the response is still that we would be crazy to expect 20/25 million for him.

A laundry list? You pretty much said he is young and highly rated, in position you feel there isn't many options so clubs will spend big money. I have countered with the fact that he is nearly 25, was highly rated a number of years ago but most agree he has failed to meet his expectations and has a huge injury concern, highlighting why would a club agree to pay +£25million for him.

Also 20/25 million for him? No, you clearly stated you believe any saleman worth his weight should be able to sell Phil Jones for over £25 million, don't try change that now.

You then go on to say we don't need to sell him so we have an influential bargaining chip as you called it, stating we can just leave him in the reserves if someone doesn't come up with the big money. Something I also criticised with the major point being how is that anyway to treat a player who has served his club proudly if he wants to leave and a realistic bid is made in terms of his worth.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Calling them hugely important is just another way of saying the club don't want to sell. Jones might not be hugely important to us, but we don't need the money at all and it wouldn't cause any problem just to keep him as a reserve.

So we don't need to sell just as much as those clubs don't want to sell, and thats every bit as influential a bargaining chip.

Make it clear that we will just keep him if the price isn't right and who is to say that one of these newly rich clubs with a need for a good defender won't just pay the money.

Then when I talk about his market value you argue that over £25 million gets you an average player these days, I bring in figure of the CBs who have all been sold for over £25 million over the last two years and you still are not having any of it.

You list fees for the likes of Hummels and Bailly, but why not look at some of the other transfers this summer. If Phil Jones is only worth 10-15 million then that values him similar to the likes of Jordan Ibe, Matt Ritchie, Mohamed Salah, Andros Townsend, James Tompkins, Ashley Williams, Nampalys Mendy, Joe Allen, Marten De Roon, Nathan Redmond, Borja Gonzalez, Roberto Pereyra and Isaac Success.

Again you are not getting the point. Most of the players you have named are players who were important to their club with demand around them or played a big enough part, or a completely different position to CB. Jones is struggling to make the bench at the moment after missing most of last season with injury and by all reports only one club has really shown interest.

If 32 year Ashley Williams is worth £12 million, is it really so strange to think that 24 year old Phil Jones might garner a higher fee? At a time when a PL club actually paid money for and gave gametime to Paddy McNair, is it really so strange to think there are clubs that might see Jones as a viable target?

I've never said that it's ridiculous or strange for Jones to attract a price larger than £12 million. I said it's ridiculous or silly to think that if Woodward cannot sell Jones for +£25 million that he isn't any good at negotiating or selling. Also Williams may be 32 but he's also played more than 33 games in the premier league every season he has taken part of and had a good euros, Phil Jones hasn't even played over 29 games in a season while he was in his younger one would think fresher years, his injury concerns will affect his price and peoples interests.

My original point was very simple. In a discussion about what to do with Phil Jones one factor is that because of a strong bargaining position we might actually get a sizeable fee for him, which would make it a good option to sell. Furthermore, because of that strong bargaining position I would indeed expect the club to drive a hard bargain for the player, and be disappointed if they do not. Sounds pretty straightforward to me.

Yeah sounds straightforward to me to. You believe that Woodward should be bringing in over 25million pounds for Jones, who has missed 80+games through injury, and can't make our bench due to the fact that he was tipped to be great 3-5 years ago, and he is relatively young, and if he can't do this he can't sell anything!

As I have said so many times it is actually frustrating me at this point.

If Woodward manages to get +£25 million for Phil Jones, this is not some sort of minimum deal expected from him sort of job like you suggest, it would be an outrageously great deal by Woodward.

It is quite clear you and I are not going to see eye to eye in this.

If Jones does leave us and fails to hit your minimum expectations of a hefty fee of +£25million feel free to come here and complain about what a poor job aul Ed Woodward did.

bucketybuck

Adamocovic wrote: »

Because you brought it up saying we should be expecting to sell Jones for that price and suggested if Woodward failed to do that he is incompetent.

I never said 30 million. You said 30 million and you know full well why you did so. Frankly, its my opinion that you are intentionally misrepresenting the very simple point I originally made, which makes me wonder why I should bother responding to your overlong post.

Adamocovic

bucketybuck wrote: »

I never said 30 million. You said 30 million and you know full well why you did so. Frankly, its my opinion that you are intentionally misrepresenting the very simple point I originally made, which makes me wonder why I should bother responding to your overlong post.

What are you talking about? You clearly said +£25 million. Which is the same as +€30million. (+€29.17million if you want to be exact.)

And how am I misrepresenting it?

I have quoted your original post many times in my argument.

bucketybuck wrote: »

I do think that there is potential there in Jones and normally I would say that the loan move would be the best option for us.

But right now, with the lack of good defenders around and the flood of money pouring into the game I think United should be looking to sell, because I think if Woodward has anything about him he should be getting a hefty fee for Jones, regardless of the last few seasons.

My biggest disappointment with the Wellbeck deal wasn't that he was sold, but that we got such a crap fee for him. A young English international striker with a good work ethic, a good scoring record and loads of potential? £16m was a bull**** fee for him and I would expect the club to drive a far better deal for Jones if selling.

There are lots of clubs out there with money to spend who would see Phil Jones as an investment worth making. £47m for Stones! £25m for Jonny Evans! In this market if Woodward can't sell the potential in a 24 year old England international that Alex Ferguson once described as a club legend in the making then he can't sell anything.

Even with the injury record there are managers and clubs that will see it as a gamble worth taking, and if we are talking £25m+ for a squad defender then that makes it an easy decision in my mind.

There's your original post, with the highlighted statements I replied to about demanding a "hefty fee" for Jones, the comments about how Woodward should be able to sell him easily for a hefty fee if he "has anything about him" and failing to do so means "he can't sell anything".

And finally the highlighted section where you talk about despite his injury worries clubs taking a gamble on £25m+ (€30m+)for him.

I don't in the slightest see how I've misrepresenting it but feel free to reply, that is of course if you feel bothered to.

bangkok

players on the continent will mostly be cheaper as clubs arent as rich as english clubs.

Bailly cost villarreal 4m last year. we signed him for 30m this summer as english clubs are loaded with money.

John stones is not worth 50m but city have the money so price is high same as sterling.

if an english club is involved price should be high. Andy Carroll went to liverpool for 35m and west ham for 18.

if stoke want Jones they would be expected to pay 20m

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

players on the continent will mostly be cheaper as clubs arent as rich as english clubs.

Bailly cost villarreal 4m last year. we signed him for 30m this summer as english clubs are loaded with money.

John stones is not worth 50m but city have the money so price is high same as sterling.

if an english club is involved price should be high. Andy Carroll went to liverpool for 35m and west ham for 18.

if stoke want Jones they would be expected to pay 20m

The issue with every example there is they were movi from a small club to a big club. When you reverse it, the fees drop.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

The issue with every example there is they were movi from a small club to a big club. When you reverse it, the fees drop.

lukaku went to everton for 28m...

joe allen went to stoke this summer for 15m

benteke went to palace the other day for the same price liverpool paid for him even though he was poor at liverpool.

Jones is a very good english centre half, if he was sold for anything less than 15m i would be disapointed

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

lukaku went to everton for 28m...

joe allen went to stoke this summer for 15m

benteke went to palace the other day for the same price liverpool paid for him even though he was poor at liverpool.

Jones is a very good english centre half, if he was sold for anything less than 15m i would be disapointed

Better examples. Though I'd say Lukaku is an exception cause of highly rated he was.

Mind, the issue with Jones is still going to be that he's massively injury prone. He's a walking sicknote and any club after him will know that. That and he'll have bigger wages with us than any of the other examples, so teams will want a lower transfer cost to cover the higher wages they'd have to give him.

I think we'll, fairly, get about 15m for him, and most of that is cause he's young and homegrown.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

Better examples. Though I'd say Lukaku is an exception cause of highly rated he was.

Mind, the issue with Jones is still going to be that he's massively injury prone. He's a walking sicknote and any club after him will know that. That and he'll have bigger wages with us than any of the other examples, so teams will want a lower transfer cost to cover the higher wages they'd have to give him.

I think we'll, fairly, get about 15m for him, and most of that is cause he's young and homegrown.

15m would be good.

and to think city paid 20m for balotelli, then milan paid 20m for him and then liverpool paid 16m for him. probably the biggest waster of a player in a long time and clubs continue to pay massive money for him

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

15m would be good.

and to think city paid 20m for balotelli, then milan paid 20m for him and then liverpool paid 16m for him. probably the biggest waster of a player in a long time and clubs continue to pay massive money for him

Otherwise known as "The Raiola Effect". He seems to squeeze every penny out of teams.

Billy86

bucketybuck wrote: »

30 million? Funny how that figure keep creeping up.

30mn Euro = 25.7 GBP, to be fair.

Adamocovic

Be interesting to see how Wilson gets on with Derby.

I hope he can get himself plenty of game time and start scoring but with Derby playing one man up front he will have big competition to break into the squad unless tactics change. Currently Derby aren't doing great in front of goal but with both Bent (who hasn't been doing great, scored today however) and Martin he will have competition there for the spot.

Would love Wilson to become a regular scorer, this loan move certainly will test him.

beno619

Lord TSC wrote: »

The issue with every example there is they were movi from a small club to a big club. When you reverse it, the fees drop.

I disagree, Chelsea always get good mone for players, United have been traditionally poor in this respect.

Sunderland bought a lad who's played 1 game for them for £8m.

jayo26

How can we compare prices for other players to jones when the one single major difference is jones fitness problems.

If he was to prove his fitness we would easily get top money for him but it's like buying a car that's always breaking down.

Argument can go on for days but it's still the same problem he is injury prone to hecknow that's why he ain't worth much.. a club like stoke will not gamble half of their budget on someone like jones.

Adamocovic

beno619 wrote: »

I disagree, Chelsea always get good mone for players, United have been traditionally poor in this respect.

Sunderland bought a lad who's played 1 game for them for £8m.

Sunderland were interested in Djilobodji when he was playing in Ligue 1 if reports are true.He may have played very little for Chelsea but had a very good loan spell with Werder Bremen.

Sunderland did overpay for him and Chelsea made a nice little profit on the deal but with Sunderland it is a case of a team who desperately needs to bring in players as early signs are showing they will struggle again.

I agree more times than not we don't get brilliant money from selling but I would say each situation is different.

Stoke have a good squad. They have Shawcross and Wollscheid as centrebacks at the moment. Both talented players. Yes they have an interest in Jones but they are also aware of the concerns that come with him. If he does go I'd love for us to get the best deal going if possible but I am also being realistic and wouldn't hold my breath on Stoke meeting any over the top demands for him.

With all this talk about Jones odds are we'll hold onto him now and he'll have a good cup/european campaign for us, or maybe that is just wishful thinking on my half :P

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

How can we compare prices for other players to jones when the one single major difference is jones fitness problems.

If he was to prove his fitness we would easily get top money for him but it's like buying a car that's always breaking down.

Argument can go on for days but it's still the same problem he is injury prone to hecknow that's why he ain't worth much.. a club like stoke will not gamble half of their budget on someone like jones.

It's a gamble, Jones might never get injured for the next 5 seasons and be a super signing for Stoke or he could somehow force his way into the United team and be a top centre half for us for the next 5 years.

Who would have said 3 years ago Valencia would be our no 1 right back at the moment under Jose mourinho....

Football is a funny old game

bangkok

beno619 wrote: »

I disagree, Chelsea always get good mone for players, United have been traditionally poor in this respect.

Sunderland bought a lad who's played 1 game for them for £8m.

http://sportsdayonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Mikel-during-his-unveiling-by-Manchester-United.jpg

brinty

Jones is today's Smalling who was the day before Rooney!!!!!
Can't wait for tomorrow,I love football

PS @jayo the campaign worked,Brinty is home

Adamocovic

brinty wrote: »

Jones is today's Smalling who was the day before Rooney!!!!!
Can't wait for tomorrow,I love football

PS @jayo the campaign worked,Brinty is home

At least we have the cup draw tomorrow then a days rest and the Europa draw.

Looking forward to seeing what teams we get.

brinty

Adamocovic wrote:

At least we have the cup draw tomorrow then a days rest and the Europa draw.

I hope we get dundalk
Would do wonders for the league of Ireland
Full house at the Aviva, if each club could maybe get a few bob sent down the line to help them stay afloat would do great things for them
Though knowing Delaney and his new band of buddies, dundalk could some how get fudged in it??? I'd put nothing past that ass clown

Adamocovic

brinty wrote: »

I hope we get dundalk
Would do wonders for the league of Ireland
Full house at the Aviva, if each club could maybe get a few bob sent down the line to help them stay afloat would do great things for them
Though knowing Delaney and his new band of buddies, dundalk could some how get fudged in it??? I'd put nothing past that ass clown

Dundalk in Europe and Sunderland in the cup would be an interesting turn of events :P


Provided Sunderland win tomorrow.