Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

Trigger

zerks wrote: »

The lads are suited and booted for charity gala.

Jaysus, Basti going to that an all, maybe they are selling him off to the highest bidder tonight so

adox

Haven't an ounce of sympathy for Schweinstiger. Doesn't deserve a place in the squad. Past it. He was really poor last season when he decided to play.

I also still think it was very dodgy the way he was injured for Man Utd for the last couple of months of the season only to turn up fully fit and raring to go for the Euros. Left a real bad taste in the mouth.


Frozen out me arse. Not good enough for a place. Was told so at the start of the season and decided to stay put. The club and manager owe him zero and the manager is fully entitled to pick what players he does and doesn't want.

Ludicrous tin foil stuff from the usuals to try and create a narrative that isn't based in reality.

It is Halloween I suppose.

Robson99

adox wrote: »

Haven't an ounce of sympathy for Schweinstiger. Doesn't deserve a place in the squad. Past it. He was really poor last season when he decided to play.

I also still think it was very dodgy the way he was injured for Man Utd for the last couple of months of the season only to turn up fully fit and raring to go for the Euros. Left a real bad taste in the mouth.


Frozen out me arse. Not good enough for a place. Was told so at the start of the season and decided to stay put. The club and manager owe him zero and the manager is fully entitled to pick what players he does and doesn't want.

Ludicrous tin foil stuff from the usuals to try and create a narrative that isn't based in reality.

It is Halloween I suppose.

Agree fully. Based on last season hes not going to improve us one bit

paulbok

zerks wrote: »

The lads are suited and booted for charity gala.

Which one is Kaiser Sóze?

Cantona's Collars

paulbok wrote: »

Which one is Kaiser Sóze?

Rooney,pretending to be a player for the last while.

His jacket seems to be a little tight around the stomach.

StringerBell

He's a silly billy, not supposed to button both buttons, gives that impression.

Cantona's Collars

StringerBell wrote: »

He's a silly billy, not supposed to button both buttons, gives that impression.

Speaking of being silly,look at Pogba's shoes.

ElChe32

Ohhhh zerks..

sReq | uTeK

TheDoc wrote: »

Can assure you I wouldn't call him a fool if he didn't take that action with Schweinsteiger start of season.

And I'm not calling him a fool now, Mourinho will only look an absolute donkey if Schweinsteiger comes back to being a first team player.

And I'll probably have some sympathy for Mourinho, if he transpires to have been advised by those he has quickly come to realise need shifting at the club. (Casting our minds back to what the assumption was the problem with Schweinsteiger)

Honestly your posts read like you have the inside track on all things United. Pathetic team because they drew against a team but played better than anything we've seen in 2 years... do you re read what you write.

Re Baston, you or I have no idea what went on start of the season. He may have told Bastion that he wouldn't feature much and would have to work hard. Perhaps Bastion kicked up and Mourinho banished him. Perhaps Bastion now wants to come back......it could very well be a million reasons that he's now back all of which you or I have no clue as to the ins and outs of internal affairs.

But yea I mean he's a fool..especially if it suits an agenda.

With that said I hope to God he keeps him in the reserves he's the last thing we need

sReq | uTeK

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Hell will freeze over before Jose Mourinho admits he was wrong.

Mata says hello... CAPTAIN at the weekend. Sold under Jose.

Rayne Wooney

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Mata says hello... CAPTAIN at the weekend. Sold under Jose.

He won the league after selling Mata, he'll tell you he was right on both choices I'm sure.

StringerBell

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Hell will freeze over before Jose Mourinho admits he was wrong.

Jose has admitted he was wrong before, how is hell doing?

sReq | uTeK

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

He won the league after selling Mata, he'll tell you he was right on both choices I'm sure.

Jokes

TheDoc

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Honestly your posts read like you have the inside track on all things United. Pathetic team because they drew against a team but played better than anything we've seen in 2 years... do you re read what you write.

Re Baston, you or I have no idea what went on start of the season. He may have told Bastion that he wouldn't feature much and would have to work hard. Perhaps Bastion kicked up and Mourinho banished him. Perhaps Bastion now wants to come back......it could very well be a million reasons that he's now back all of which you or I have no clue as to the ins and outs of internal affairs.

But yea I mean he's a fool..especially if it suits an agenda.

With that said I hope to God he keeps him in the reserves he's the last thing we need

I'm not acting like I have an inside track, all we can speculate on, and it is speculation ,is the various stories about the situation. I don't think its a stretch to assume he did not form parts of Mourinho's plans and like any manager coming into a certain environment, maybe wants to make an example of someone. Plenty enough of it happened this summer.

I also think the attitudes towards Schweinsteiger are a bit forgetful and disingenuous. He was excellent for large portions when he played and oozed class. A far superior player to Carrick and Fellaini, both of whom retained their places.

PhlegmyMoses

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm not acting like I have an inside track, all we can speculate on, and it is speculation ,is the various stories about the situation. I don't think its a stretch to assume he did not form parts of Mourinho's plans and like any manager coming into a certain environment, maybe wants to make an example of someone. Plenty enough of it happened this summer.

I also think the attitudes towards Schweinsteiger are a bit forgetful and disingenuous. He was excellent for large portions when he played and oozed class. A far superior player to Carrick and Fellaini, both of whom retained their places.

He most certainly was not excellent for large portions when he played. He wasn't bad, but he definitely wasn't what I was expecting from a player I had admired for so long. And if you want something that really is disingenuous, it's the "when he played" part of your post. You know full well that part of the reason for most giving up hope with him is that he didn't play for months on end under LVG, we never really got clear information about his injuries, then he rocked up and played no bother from his NT. Yet you seem to most this in your post.

Having read your posts in recent weeks, I really feel like you have taken the Mourinho appointment badly and have set the bar at a level you demonstrably did not for either of our previous two managers. Your opinions are yours and I doubt you'll be swayed, but I certainly am not seeing what you are at the minute and feel like your judgement is clouded on the relative merits of the current manager.

adox

adox wrote: »

Haven't an ounce of sympathy for Schweinstiger. Doesn't deserve a place in the squad. Past it. He was really poor last season when he decided to play.

I also still think it was very dodgy the way he was injured for Man Utd for the last couple of months of the season only to turn up fully fit and raring to go for the Euros. Left a real bad taste in the mouth.


Frozen out me arse. Not good enough for a place. Was told so at the start of the season and decided to stay put. The club and manager owe him zero and the manager is fully entitled to pick what players he does and doesn't want.

Ludicrous tin foil stuff from the usuals to try and create a narrative that isn't based in reality.

It is Halloween I suppose.

He wasn't really poor when he played last season. If we're going on the 'not good enough for a place in the squad' metric based on LVG's uninspired roster last season, there's a few I would have had out before him in the Summer. Some of them weren't even playing their first season in the Premier League or at the club. His first season was disappointing overall, but he was far from really poor.

Not you maybe, but there were multiple posters commenting here and in the match threads at the time on his calm, composed performances and how he was a positive influence in games last season. Some players get better in some fans' eyes the longer they don't play, some of us were guilty of it with Herrera during LVG's reign, but the opposite seems to be happening with Schweinsteiger now. The longer it is since he played, the longer this situation goes on, the worse his performances, contribution and delinquencies last season seem to become. He is past his best years no doubt, there are some unknowns in regards to where he spent his time off injured towards the end of last season, but you are doing him a disservice here.

In the same post that you accuse others of 'ludicrous tinfoil stuff', you say "I also still think it was very dodgy the way he was injured for Man Utd for the last couple of months of the season only to turn up fully fit and raring to go for the Euros. Left a real bad taste in the mouth." Not saying you're right or wrong, but without any shred of proof that could also be labelled as one from the tinfoil collection. This series of events which may or may not have happened are admittedly leaving a bad taste in your mouth, therefore making it difficult for you to look at the current situation objectively.

From what is reported without donning the tinfoil, Bastian got sidelined with a knee ligaments injury in March. In May, Jogi Low named him in his provisional squad for the Euros and said that he wanted to leave it as late as possible and give Schweinsteiger the best chance to make it. He did make it, but then suffered another injury with strained ligaments during the tournament. This doesn't appear to me as anything unusual or unprecedented, or as a player who was hiding in the wings fully fit, preserving himself by avoiding club duty. Managers have taken chances on less-than-fit players in tournaments before, and players have strived to recover from injuries and take part in tournaments even if it was too soon (Rooney, WC 2006) so I can't fault Bastian for donning the German shirt for the last time at a major tournament.

At United, it's true to say that the manager owes him nothing, but it is wrong to say that the club owes him nothing otherwise we may as well burn every contract in existence. Jose was more than entitled to discard Schweinsteiger from his team and even freeze him out if that's how some want to define it, but the player has the same entitlement to see out his contract and fight for his place at the club. Early on when he chose to stay, it might have looked like he was abandoning football for money, but apparently Schweinsteiger has been impressing with his training regime and attitude, and seems to be doing everything he can to get back into a team that he was very publicly told there was no place for him in.

I don't think his reintroduction to first-team training means he'll play anytime soon for United. That said, his character and determination are admirable, I wish him well and don't think his time at United has been anywhere near as bad as your own recollection suggests or deserving of such dismissive words, just been a slightly disappointing signing. I say slightly, because the common consensus and expectation in here and beyond when he was signed was that he wouldn't move mountains, was past his peak, but still could contribute on the football end of things and his experience would be beneficial. As much of a shítshow as last season was at United, Schweinsteiger was far from the worst thing or the cause of the problems.

He might not be of use to United again, but the way some refer to him you'd swear he was made of the very same material as Phil Jones, was the age of Ryan Giggs in the 2013/14 season and has the off-field mentality and dislike for the club of someone like Joey Barton. The worst he has done is not performed like he was 26 years old, got injured again, showed that he wasn't finished as a player at the top level at the Euros but did come back from injury too soon, then chose to see out his last big contract and fight for his place at the last great club that he is likely to play for.

TonyD79

What do people think of Dunphy's latest comments about United not having the players to make the top 4?

TonyD79

TonyD79 wrote: »

What do people think of Dunphy's latest comments about United not having the players to make the top 4?

Classic Dunphy

jayo26

TonyD79 wrote: »

What do people think of Dunphy's latest comments about United not having the players to make the top 4?

He is a busted flush

mewe

TonyD79 wrote:

What do people think of Dunphy's latest comments about United not having the players to make the top 4?

He's a spoofer and a spiv!

jayo26

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Classic Dunphy

I actually don't know why people even still listen to him.

jimmytwotimes 2013

TonyD79 wrote: »

What do people think of Dunphy's latest comments about United not having the players to make the top 4?

If you were a betting man you'd probably have United finishing sixth. Dunphy is mad but going on the evidence of the season so far he's not wrong.

bucketybuck

I still think we can finish top four, why wouldn't we? We have a lot of issues to sort out but any team creating the chances against smaller teams that we are is eventually going to start scoring goals and picking up those wins. We hammered Stoke and Burnley without scoring, simply recreate that type of performance again and again and again and we will win the vast majority of games, because not every keeper is going to be as inspired as Heaton and we won't always be missing such gilt edged chances.

I said it before, its far harder to fix a team that isn't performing than it is to fix a team that is performing but not finishing chances. Last season everything on the field needed to change for us to compete, this season all it takes is one player, a Rooney or Martial, to step up and go on a run of goals and we would be flying.

There are things I would change and a lot of work still to do, I expected a title and it seems that won't be happening, but we aren't that far away either so I still think top four is very much achievable.

TheDoc

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

He most certainly was not excellent for large portions when he played. He wasn't bad, but he definitely wasn't what I was expecting from a player I had admired for so long. And if you want something that really is disingenuous, it's the "when he played" part of your post. You know full well that part of the reason for most giving up hope with him is that he didn't play for months on end under LVG, we never really got clear information about his injuries, then he rocked up and played no bother from his NT. Yet you seem to most this in your post.

Having read your posts in recent weeks, I really feel like you have taken the Mourinho appointment badly and have set the bar at a level you demonstrably did not for either of our previous two managers. Your opinions are yours and I doubt you'll be swayed, but I certainly am not seeing what you are at the minute and feel like your judgement is clouded on the relative merits of the current manager.

How many times then do I need to say I'm not being prejudice to the manager?

I'm just not affording him the same time as Van Gaal or Moyes. He had effectively six months watching this team from afar where by all accounts he had swayed the board with his plans, get's a full pre-season and all his transfer targets which is always considered a massive plus, this is an experienced premier league manager and one of the best managers operating in world football.

How can anyone NOT be concerned at some of the early signs? No one will be happier than me if things starts to shape up, but as many a positive sign people are seeing (as I am too) I'm seeing just as many warning signals and worrying things that have me concerned the manager is fumbling a bit.

Now that's perfectly fine if he came in with a Plan A and then finds the players can't adapt or handle it, similar to when Van Gaal came in with his three at the back.

And at the same time, I'm concerned about the cult of Mourinho being in full ebb and flow. I've seen it from Chelsea fans during his time there, any critique of the manager is completely ignored, those raising the criticisms are labelled as someone who just hates Mourinho and that being their agenda, and his fans just support him blindly.

He had a brilliant summer, something we prayed for, for three years. It was something strongly attributed to his title win at Chelsea, and a key point for his failings last year after a terrible pre-season period.

People keep saying "he's only ten games in" but he's been in the job a lot longer, known he was getting the job likely longer and I just expect a bit more.

I'm not calling for his head, I havn't got my knife half drawn to stick him. But I was transparent on my feelings and been consistent throughout long before he became United manager.

As you say, only ten games in, and we have seen in microcosm all the issues that Mourinho brings, and very little imo of the positives. Sincerely hopes he turns it around, because while there is plenty of managers in the sea, if Mourinho can't make this team genuinely competitive I'd be concerned for the immediate future of the club.

It's is entirely possible I will admit, that due to my longterm beliefs and opinion of Mourinho, that in this microcosm seeing all that is happening, it has amplified my concern over others who maybe weren't or arn't as bothered by Jose.

Again I'll re-iterate I'm not calling for his head, I don't think he is a wrong appointment, I don't subscribe to the narrative this week that he is a coach out of touch with the times, I'm just annoyed and concerned that he has basically stepped into every trap in front of him, shot himself in the foot everyway possible, and basically been the Mourinho model I sincerely feared and worried about. Make no mistake, this is not the Mourinho from Porto, Chelsea or Inter, this is the Mourinho from Madrid and Chelsea MKII, scarred, paranoid, no longer builds that unshakable bond with players, and appears so unsure of what he is doing. And I sincerely hope he turns that around. If we get any shade of the great Mourinho, there is a legacy here he can build and leave.

crkball6

TheDoc wrote: »

And at the same time, I'm concerned about the cult of Mourinho being in full ebb and flow. I've seen it from Chelsea fans during his time there, any critique of the manager is completely ignored, those raising the criticisms are labelled as someone who just hates Mourinho and that being their agenda, and his fans just support him blindly.

The problem is your critique so far has completely lacked any intelligent assessment of Jose as a manager. It's over the top clap trap. Throwing out gems like "Pathetic result". Where a team has surpassed records for the amount of chances in a game against a team who has all ready this year put away both Everton and Liverpool.

Your expectation of United is that of a young teenager in the late 90's.

If you want to critique him and have a discussion you need to let this go.

TheDoc

TonyD79 wrote: »

What do people think of Dunphy's latest comments about United not having the players to make the top 4?

One of the genuinely worst pundits I've ever see on TV and can't fathom how anyone takes his points seriously. But they arn't meant too.

Made a career out of being controversial barstool talk and it's just got boring for a number of years now.

Flint Fredstone

He's a puffball!!!

jayo26

crkball6 wrote: »

The problem is your critique so far has completely lacked any intelligent assessment of Jose as a manager. It's over the top clap trap. Throwing out gems like "Pathetic result". Where a team has surpassed records for the amount of chances in a game against a team who has all ready this year put away both Everton and Liverpool.

Your expectation of United is that of a young teenager in the late 90's.

If you want to critique him and have a discussion you need to let this go.

In defence of doc he is one of the best posters on here and I think a few people that are trying to throw stuff at him need to look at themselves first.

I don't agree with his opinions on jose and I also defended lvg when he was too because that's what ya do most of the time as a supporter of a football club you back players and staff until sometimes they go so far you can't.

Just because he thinks a draw against a poor team like Burnley is a really bad result you are comparing his posts to a teenager. I'm my opinion we played excellent with weekend but the result is terrible no matter what our performance was like and so was the result against Watford and Chelsea.

So maybe if you want to critique someone's posting style to you should leave your childish insults out of it.

Kerrydude1981

Remember the time that Dunphy said that "Arsenal were the future" when they had the likes of RVP and Fabregas,well that went well

Then he turned it all around and got a great laugh out of Wenger one night and Liam Brady got pissed of with him over it

I dont take too much notice of what Dunphy says,he just follows the teams that are hot at that particular time,its Liverpool's turn now but it could be City next month

Gas man that Dunphy.

ericzeking

crkball6 wrote: »

TheDoc wrote: »

And at the same time, I'm concerned about the cult of Mourinho being in full ebb and flow. I've seen it from Chelsea fans during his time there, any critique of the manager is completely ignored, those raising the criticisms are labelled as someone who just hates Mourinho and that being their agenda, and his fans just support him blindly.

The problem is your critique so far has completely lacked any intelligent assessment of Jose as a manager. It's over the top clap trap. Throwing out gems like "Pathetic result". Where a team has surpassed records for the amount of chances in a game against a team who has all ready this year put away both Everton and Liverpool.

Your expectation of United is that of a young teenager in the late 90's.

If you want to critique him and have a discussion you need to let this go.

I have seen this type of accusation made in a number of places against those who are, shall we say, not so enamoured with Jose as those who have been promised all the bounty he supposedly guarantees.
The irony is delicious.

Fellaini being offered a new contract?

bangkok be like...

The_Kew_Tour

Fellaini is not a bad squad player at all.

Personally don't think he should be first team player, but he has his positives and can play role in certain games and if any player gets injured.

Although I rather see plenty others get contract over him

Lord TSC

Ooh, where's the Fel news coming from? As said, great squad player. Not good enough for the first team long term, but if he's happy to be a bench player, he's a great option for a 3rd or 4th choice.

Warren Joyce is apparently at Wigan's ground right now, so expect that announcement to be coming soon.

Lord TSC

Lord TSC wrote: »

Ooh, where's the Fel news coming from? As said, great squad player. Not good enough for the first team long term, but if he's happy to be a bench player, he's a great option for a 3rd or 4th choice.

Warren Joyce is apparently at Wigan's ground right now, so expect that announcement to be coming soon.

It's been rumored on twitter but nothing concrete

TheDoc

crkball6 wrote: »

The problem is your critique so far has completely lacked any intelligent assessment of Jose as a manager. It's over the top clap trap. Throwing out gems like "Pathetic result". Where a team has surpassed records for the amount of chances in a game against a team who has all ready this year put away both Everton and Liverpool.

Your expectation of United is that of a young teenager in the late 90's.

If you want to critique him and have a discussion you need to let this go.

Drawing at home against Burnley is a pathetic result.

And my expectations are that of what has been set by the manager and club itself. I've made that clear, just as they have.

There is nothing over the top describing dropped points against Burnley at home as pathetic, it is, irregardless of the circumstances. Sure there are some mitigating circumstances, mainly Hererra being sent of in a ridiculous decision. But the game should have been dead and buried by then.

Results like that are fine to take once in a while, but we have teams coming to Old Trafford licking their lips at the prospect of ending whatever horrendous record they have at OT. Just look at all the form records that have been smashed in the last 2-3 seasons.

And Jose didn't even receive the blunt end of the stick, it was the players I was aiming my ire towards. I didn't even get into the ridiculous situation of Mourinho getting himself sent off, and then removing Mata and putting Fellaini, and absolutely ludicrous managerial decision considering how Mata was playing.

As I said immediately after the match and can see is clearly the case. Handy excuses for dropping points to Burnley at home.

TheDoc

jayo26 wrote: »

In defence of doc he is one of the best posters on here and I think a few people that are trying to throw stuff at him need to look at themselves first.

I don't agree with his opinions on jose and I also defended lvg when he was too because that's what ya do most of the time as a supporter of a football club you back players and staff until sometimes they go so far you can't.

Just because he thinks a draw against a poor team like Burnley is a really bad result you are comparing his posts to a teenager. I'm my opinion we played excellent with weekend but the result is terrible no matter what our performance was like and so was the result against Watford and Chelsea.

So maybe if you want to critique someone's posting style to you should leave your childish insults out of it.

's Jay.

In fairness as I've stated a few weeks back, I'm prepared for what I'll have to deal with for this season and how ever many more seasons when it comes to Mourinho. I'm confident that I'll be objective in my assessments and won't let me dislike for Jose overshadow my objective analysis of critique, but I'm not for a second going to back down to the Mourinho Cult defence, have my self described as a self entitled kid or the likes. I'm a grown adult, I can dislike Mourinho but support him as our manager.

If he makes mistakes, they will be highlighted and should be discussed.

I hope more then anyone I don't have to have these little quote battles for how ever many seasons,. I sincerely hope all goes well and we are all happy as larry lauding an incredible team spearheaded by an influential manager.

And yeah I was a big LVG fan, and in some respects I still am. And people bringing that up as if to construe I'm calling for Mourinho out is nonsense and just twisting stuff. But there is a reason I would have afforded much more time and patience to Van Gaal over say Mourinho. They are two very different people and have arrived at our club in different circumstances.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable expecting a little more from our team then what we are getting, and maybe an expectation of the team hitting the ground running a bit.

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

Ooh, where's the Fel news coming from? As said, great squad player. Not good enough for the first team long term, but if he's happy to be a bench player, he's a great option for a 3rd or 4th choice.

Warren Joyce is apparently at Wigan's ground right now, so expect that announcement to be coming soon.

Significant loss to the club if he does leave. I saw some stories from the Manchester based people construing his departure as a bit of disenfranchisement with how the club is currently operating.

I sincerely hope he is leaving to further his own career and take a crack at first team management, and that the club hasn't pissed off a key component of our academy setup.

duffman13

TheDoc wrote: »

How many times then do I need to say I'm not being prejudice to the manager?

I'm just not affording him the same time as Van Gaal or Moyes.

He had effectively six months watching this team from afar where by all accounts he had swayed the board with his plans, get's a full pre-season and all his transfer targets which is always considered a massive plus, this is an experienced premier league manager and one of the best managers operating in world football.

How can you say your not being prejudice to Mourinho while in the very next sentence say that your not giving him the same time as Moyes or LVG.

Moyes in particular had knowledge months in advance that he'd be taking over from Fergie but you choose to ignore that.

TheDoc

duffman13 wrote: »

How can you say your not being prejudice to Mourinho while in the very next sentence say that your not giving him the same time as Moyes or LVG.

Moyes in particular had knowledge months in advance that he'd be taking over from Fergie but you choose to ignore that.

Mourinho is(was?) a world class manager, has won premier league titles, domestic cups, champions leagues, managed and won at big clubs with big personalities and was just in work last season, after winning a another Premier League title.

Moyes had a circumstance being the direct predecessor to Ferguson and some pretty severe squad issues to sort while also making a big step up.

Van Gaal had a circumstance been an international manager and out of club management for a number of years, arrived late in his first summer and had some serious surgery to do to our squad.

I'm not expecting miracles from Mourinho, but I don't think he was coming into an absolute disaster. There is a good squad there, he was able to make four really good signings (by his own admission all top targets) and has had a whole summer of prep.

Maybe it is more apt to say I'm disappointed thus far with the showing from his own messages when he started, and I don't believe expectations are being met just yet. And that is fine, the end will justify the means, but that shouldn't exclude him from critique. His experience and standing would set expectations of being able to hit the ground running. This manager has been hired because the club arn't going to put a longterm plan in place, the club can't continue going with a yoyo effect with the champions league and needed a proven manager to get the club back competing for titles and firing through the champions league. If we were making some longterm plan, Van Gaal would still be here. This is the clubs plan, this is what they have shown. You miss out on top 4 you are gone, there is no transitional period for what it considers the biggest club in the world. It's competing year in year out .

Look he's going to in the long run probably get the same support from me as Van Gaal and Moyes got, irrespective of my issues with him. And I'd be pretty sure I would have made critical comments about Van Gaal and Moyes early doors, I was just against the severe reaction of turfing the managers out.

And maybe that is what your interpreting what I mean here, when I don't and havn't uttered any word even remotely close to it?

Like what, I'm not allowed to take issue with substituting Mata, who was playing incredible, for Fellaini, who was pants when he came on? What is there a pass there because "it's only ten games in" or something? What is it people are taking exception with me for?

I totally get people getting abrasive when rival fans come into the thread and throw out the weak **** "OH Mourinho only knows how to win one way" or "oh there is Mourinho imploding" but I'm pretty confident I'm not doing that and adding some credence to my points and issue.

jayo26

Doc would you agree that despite say 4 of our games been bad results and two of them been unlucky losses the team is playing a he'll of a lot better and looking more likely to win a game then they did the majority of the time under lvg.

TheDoc

jayo26 wrote: »

Doc would you agree that despite say 4 of our games been bad results and two of them been unlucky losses the team is playing a he'll of a lot better and looking more likely to win a game then they did the majority of the time under lvg.

Yeah absolutely. The team is looking for various portions far superior then it did under Van Gaal (although he did have some decent spurts himself) and there is clear signs that it's possible this team is a few tweaks away from being a proper force.

I don't think , Liverpool/Cheslea aside, I've made his style as my bone of contention though

duffman13

TheDoc wrote: »

Mourinho is(was?) a world class manager, has won premier league titles, domestic cups, champions leagues, managed and won at big clubs with big personalities and was just in work last season, after winning a another Premier League title.

Moyes had a circumstance being the direct predecessor to Ferguson and some pretty severe squad issues to sort while also making a big step up.

Van Gaal had a circumstance been an international manager and out of club management for a number of years, arrived late in his first summer and had some serious surgery to do to our squad.

I'm not expecting miracles from Mourinho, but I don't think he was coming into an absolute disaster. There is a good squad there, he was able to make four really good signings (by his own admission all top targets) and has had a whole summer of prep.

Maybe it is more apt to say I'm disappointed thus far with the showing from his own messages when he started, and I don't believe expectations are being met just yet. And that is fine, the end will justify the means, but that shouldn't exclude him from critique. His experience and standing would set expectations of being able to hit the ground running. This manager has been hired because the club arn't going to put a longterm plan in place, the club can't continue going with a yoyo effect with the champions league and needed a proven manager to get the club back competing for titles and firing through the champions league. If we were making some longterm plan, Van Gaal would still be here. This is the clubs plan, this is what they have shown. You miss out on top 4 you are gone, there is no transitional period for what it considers the biggest club in the world. It's competing year in year out .

Look he's going to in the long run probably get the same support from me as Van Gaal and Moyes got, irrespective of my issues with him. And I'd be pretty sure I would have made critical comments about Van Gaal and Moyes early doors, I was just against the severe reaction of turfing the managers out.

And maybe that is what your interpreting what I mean here, when I don't and havn't uttered any word even remotely close to it?

Like what, I'm not allowed to take issue with substituting Mata, who was playing incredible, for Fellaini, who was pants when he came on? What is there a pass there because "it's only ten games in" or something? What is it people are taking exception with me for?

I totally get people getting abrasive when rival fans come into the thread and throw out the weak **** "OH Mourinho only knows how to win one way" or "oh there is Mourinho imploding" but I'm pretty confident I'm not doing that and adding some credence to my points and issue.

I've no problems with you throwing out the valid points and I would agree with a lot of them. I have seen you posting on this thread for a number of years and respect your footballing opinion. I do however think your dislike of Mourinho is making you give him less time than you have previous managers. Maybe I'm taking you up the wrong way but you seem like you'd be happy if he was sacked in the morning. If I'm wrong I apologise but that's how it's come across to me at least.

I was not overly pleased when Mourinho got the job but I'm happy enough to give him some time. I'm also happy that performances (if not results) have improved drastically than what we'd seen for the last 12 months. If we were playing rubbish and still not creating chances id be getting frustrated too.

Including friendlies he's been in charge for less than 20 games, a bit of prospective is needed. LVG had two years, Mourinho has had 3 months.

Cantona's Collars

I see Martial has a new gf. Hopefully all the off field stuff with his ex is over and his head is right for concentrating on his football.

Jayop

jayo26 wrote: »

Doc would you agree that despite say 4 of our games been bad results and two of them been unlucky losses the team is playing a he'll of a lot better and looking more likely to win a game then they did the majority of the time under lvg.

Personally I thought we were brilliant at the weekend and it's the most I enjoyed a game for a long time. It totally reminded me of a Fergie game where we just battered a team for the full 90+ minutes. I was convinced we'd score a late goal and we really should have done given all the chances we had.

If Rooney had turned in that chance we'd all be saying the same thing now about keeping going to the end. I'm happier now than I was a week ago.

jayo26

TheDoc wrote: »

Yeah absolutely. The team is looking for various portions far superior then it did under Van Gaal (although he did have some decent spurts himself) and there is clear signs that it's possible this team is a few tweaks away from being a proper force.

I don't think , Liverpool/Cheslea aside, I've made his style as my bone of contention though

No you probably haven't I wasn't stating it as an argument I was just asking in a nutshell were you happy with the team progress playing wise. And also I agree apart from pool and Chelsea I think we have been seen some of the best football in years it's a matter of getting the striker whoever it is to click.

But same as rooney I don't think jose will stick with zlatans if he aint contributing to team goals wise bit on the flip side of it some of his link up play has been exceptional.

The main part Im Worried about with jose is the off the field antics and his craic with the refs has started already it will be fun to see how that plays out.

Jayop

Zlatan has cost us points in recent weeks, but like you say Jay his contribution to our all round play has been brilliant. Some of the stuff he Mata and Pogba were doing hasn't been seen in years from a United front line.

jayo26

zerks wrote: »

I see Martial has a new gf. Hopefully all the off field stuff with his ex is over and his head is right for concentrating on his football.

Ha zerks not to sound like I'm snagging ya but he had that go before he split up with the wife that's what they split over aint sue the one that he cheated on her with.

And if I'm wrong I'll hold my hand up and say shut up jay

Jayop

jayo26 wrote: »

The main part Im Worried about with jose is the off the field antics and his craic with the refs has started already it will be fun to see how that plays out.

I've absolutely no problem with him losing the head with refs and putting pressure on them. We've been getting barebacked by refs ever since Fergie left, decision after decision going against us and our managers have all been too docile in pointing it out.

Cantona's Collars

jayo26 wrote: »

Ha zerks not to sound like I'm snagging ya but he had that go before he split up with the wife that's what they split over aint sue the one that he cheated on her with.

And if I'm wrong I'll hold my hand up and say shut up jay

Think it was some wannabe x factor competitor that he was with. His slump in form coincided with his wife splitting up with him and the dirty laundry being aired on social media.

Jayop

The next six games are all winnable for us and really we need to be winning them to show some progression.

We have Fenerbache next and winning that will all but see us through the group stages of the Europa league as it will put 5 points between them and us with only 2 games remaining.

Swansea away should be an easy win. As bad as our recent form has been Swansea are looking brutal, lost 5 of the last 6 games and are in the relegation spots.

Arsenal in the league at home is the toughest game obviously but again it's one we should really be looking to take a big step forward and get the win.

Then we have 3 more home games making it four in a row. Feyenoord, even a draw there would be grand, that then gives us the two West Ham games in the Cup and the League. Again, both at home so we should have no excuses for not winning both.

I know it's not too important where we are in the league so long as we're picking up the wins the table will look after itself, but the three teams just above us all have tough enough runs coming up, we should leapfrog Watford easily with 3 wins, Everton are 3 points ahead of us and have a much better GD so getting past them will be harder, but again it's achievable. Spurs are the problem. They're only in 5th and are 5 points ahead of us. If we can get closer to them by the end of November and up into 6th I'll be happy with the progress.