Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

crkball6

RobertKK wrote: »

Rojo, right now seems to be resurrecting his career at United.

He cost us the goal yesterday.

He's a liability.

Cantona's Collars

crkball6 wrote: »

He cost us the goal yesterday.

He's a liability.

I thought it was more the fault of Jones not being alert.

crkball6

zerks wrote: »

I thought it was more the fault of Jones not being alert.

No, ineptness from Rojo which gave away the free.

Pogba's man on the free itself

Son0vagun

StringerBell wrote: »

Liverpool don't have a big enough squad of quality to keep that kind of tempo up over the course of a season tbh, not worried about them. Chelsea seem to be really gelling well now though and with my buddy Conte at the helm they now look a real proposition. Spurs still building but like Liverpool not sure the strength in the depth is there with them yet. Obviously City are still the team to beat (goes without saying at this point Arsenal will Arsenal) but nothing to suggest anybody is going to run away with it at this point.

As a Liverpool fan, This just makes me laugh!

jayo26

crkball6 wrote: »

No, ineptness from Rojo which gave away the free.

Pogba's man on the free itself

Ahh come on rojo kept the ball away from the Swansea player yeh if he had of got a better kick on it he should of cleared it but darmian gave away the free kick then pogba and Jones failed to pick up the man from the free and gave him an unchallenged header you can't say it was rojo ineptness that cost us a goal when he is the further player in the chain of mistakes and it was the smaller mistake.

Edit: and by the way rooney had two chances to close down the ball before it got to rojo the second time and he only strolled to it.

jayo26

Son0vagun wrote: »

As a Liverpool fan, This just makes me laugh!

As a united fan, so what?

He gave his opinion he says no one is going to run away with it and Chelsea look better which they have in the past few games they are more defensive solid of all the teams ahead of us and scoring goals and have a bigger squad of quality players then Liverpool so id say it's a fair assessment.

fergiesfolly

Son0vagun wrote: »

As a Liverpool fan, This just makes me laugh!

That's nice.
Must be a break from all the crying ye've been doing for the last 20 odd years.

Cookiemunster

crkball6 wrote: »

No, ineptness from Rojo which gave away the free.

Pogba's man on the free itself

I though it was Darmian who gave away the free kick.

crkball6

jayo26 wrote: »

Ahh come on rojo kept the ball away from the Swansea player yeh if he had of got a better kick on it he should of cleared it but darmian gave away the free kick then pogba and Jones failed to pick up the man from the free and gave him an unchallenged header you can't say it was rojo ineptness that cost us a goal when he is the further player in the chain of mistakes and it was the smaller mistake.

Edit: and by the way rooney had two chances to close down the ball before it got to rojo the second time and he only strolled to it.

Lets not go back and forth on it too much. Darmian was forced into it due to a very basic mistake by Rojo, if it was a once of I wouldn't flinch. Rojo is a consistent offender of this making problems where they're no problems. I'm not comfortable with him in any position in the back four and yesterday was an example why, we're just lucky we were well out in front.

In a game like yesterday where you don't have a huge amount to do you need to do the small bits correctly Rojo is woeful and should not be near a manchester united back 4 IMHO.

I think it's harsh to call Rooney out there he was after going to close down a defender ran away towards the receiver who was in front of him at all times so harsh on Rooney.

lee_baby_simms

fergiesfolly wrote: »

That's nice.
Must be a break from all the crying ye've been doing for the last 20 odd years.

There's been a lot of tears but a lot of laughter over the past 3 years.

crkball6

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I though it was Darmian who gave away the free kick.

He had to because of Rojo's mistake.

Flint Fredstone

fergiesfolly wrote: »

That's nice.
Must be a break from all the crying ye've been doing for the last 20 odd years.

As a United fan this makes me laugh :pac:

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

Think mourinho was bang out of order naming the 2 players. Should be all kept behind closed doors. Nothing good can come of naming them in public

Good has come of it.

I now know why those two players were not in the squad, and that the manager has questions of them being a bit soft.

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

The problem is that too a many players seemingly have grown very, very soft because they feel there will be no public repercussions for the negative attitudes. It's about time they get thrown under a bus.

There was a story during the week about Mourinho being taken a back at how soft so many in the team was. That there isn't many fighters. That he has questions about players pushing themselves.

I guess coupled with his actual comments cements that story as having basis.

Squad does need a serious amount of toughening up. That why I've always had a fondness for Rojo. He is a no nonsense physical defender and I like some of those in my teams. He's done himself plenty of favours last few games with decent displays. I'd say it's why so many people took to Bailly so quickly too.

Mourinho has my full backing to route out any weeds or wimps, as this team needs a ****ing rocket up it's hole and the club needs reminding about itself.

jayo26

crkball6 wrote: »

Lets not go back and forth on it too much. Darmian was forced into it due to a very basic mistake by Rojo, if it was a once of I wouldn't flinch. Rojo is a consistent offender of this making problems where they're no problems. I'm not comfortable with him in any position in the back four and yesterday was an example why, we're just lucky we were well out in front.

In a game like yesterday where you don't have a huge amount to do you need to do the small bits correctly Rojo is woeful and should not be near a manchester united back 4 IMHO.

I think it's harsh to call Rooney out there he was after going to close down a defender ran away towards the receiver who was in front of him at all times so harsh on Rooney.

Im not calling rooney out I brought him up because u seemed to be going back threw a chain of mistakes to say rojo was the cause of the goal so I ment if you go one further back you could blame rooney too.

The biggest fault for that goal was pogba and Jones giving the man a a free header from the free and it was probably most on pogba because he didn't bother picking up anyone.

crkball6

jayo26 wrote: »

Im not calling rooney out I brought him up because u seemed to be going back threw a chain of mistakes to say rojo was the cause of the goal so I ment if you go one further back you could blame rooney too.

The biggest fault for that goal was pogba and Jones giving the man a a free header from the free and it was probably most on pogba because he didn't bother picking up anyone.

We'll agree to disagree as this could get very boring for everyone else.

The_Kew_Tour

Saw none of yesterday but going by reactions of friends and here it was decent.

Saw Liverpool first half yesterday and they look terrific. No Europe to worry about they are title contenders. City and Chelsea are too. I just think Arsenal or Spurs are not good enough.

I think if we got our performances Together we can still push for title challenge, but we cant afford more then 2 slip ups in Must Win games now

Lord TSC

I worry that there's several holes the club has dug itself over recent years, in that regard.

For one, we went heavy in on youth, which is a nice philosophy to have, but I have serious worries about it, in that I believe young players who hit top clubs quickly have less motivation to keep improving. If you're 20, and you're getting 100k a week and are already at the biggest club you'll ever hit, I'd imagine it's very easy to take a step back and go "Thats good enough".

Thats not advocating going after older players only, but I worry that for a lot of young players, getting a contract with a club like United is their end goal. Not winning titles, or winning Ballon D'Ors or whatever. Just getting the payday and making a nice living.

We really seem to be lacking players who demand top level success from themselves. I also worry if it's a distinctly English problem; young English players get massive money deals and massive money moves (thanks to the PL homegrown rules) and thats enough for them. Other than Rooney and possibly Kane (depending on his development; more named because he's had two stellar seasons), when has England actually produced someone you'd say could arguably classed at one point in their career or another as "World Class"?

For me, I hope we're going after 24-28 year olds who might not be the biggest name out there, but will have a mental toughness and desire.

TheDoc

Why is it fashionable all of a sudden to use not being in Europe as a boost to a Premier League title charge?

That really bugs me. All the top coaches and players down the years would say how you'd get into the routine of midweek CL football and your week was tailored around it. And that you would hit form and understanding so much faster, and the team would be in better shape from the more regular competitive matches.

Seems to be a happy excuse for clubs now, and an advantage. What is the Champions league going the way of Europa league? Just a nuisance now? Incredible how many managers, fans etc. whine about it.

Of course it's just a cover up for a club failing miserably, but it's starting to creep in as an actual factor in discussions.

Hococop

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

There's been a lot of tears but a lot of laughter over the past 3 years.

Couldn't agree more

Jayop

TheDoc wrote: »

Why is it fashionable all of a sudden to use not being in Europe as a boost to a Premier League title charge?

That really bugs me. All the top coaches and players down the years would say how you'd get into the routine of midweek CL football and your week was tailored around it. And that you would hit form and understanding so much faster, and the team would be in better shape from the more regular competitive matches.

Seems to be a happy excuse for clubs now, and an advantage. What is the Champions league going the way of Europa league? Just a nuisance now? Incredible how many managers, fans etc. whine about it.

Of course it's just a cover up for a club failing miserably, but it's starting to creep in as an actual factor in discussions.

It's hilarious, one league title in the last 25 or more was won by a team not playing in Europe and now it's seen as some huge advantage. I didn't think it was for us when we weren't in Europe and I don't now.

Ed The Equalizer

TheDoc wrote: »

Why is it fashionable all of a sudden to use not being in Europe as a boost to a Premier League title charge?

That really bugs me. All the top coaches and players down the years would say how you'd get into the routine of midweek CL football and your week was tailored around it. And that you would hit form and understanding so much faster, and the team would be in better shape from the more regular competitive matches.

Seems to be a happy excuse for clubs now, and an advantage. What is the Champions league going the way of Europa league? Just a nuisance now? Incredible how many managers, fans etc. whine about it.

Of course it's just a cover up for a club failing miserably, but it's starting to creep in as an actual factor in discussions.

Because Liverpool went from 7th to a whisker away from winning it, and Leicester went from narrowly avoiding relegation to winning it. I think it's likely that neither of those would have happened if either club had European football...

ShooterSF

Ed The Equalizer wrote: »

Because Liverpool went from 7th to a whisker away from winning it, and Leicester went from narrowly avoiding relegation to winning it. I think it's likely that neither of those would have happened if either club had European football...

Leicester weren't in Europe the year before so that seems an odd reason for their success.

crkball6

ShooterSF wrote: »

Leicester weren't in Europe the year before so that seems an odd reason for their success.

You might be missing his point.

Fox Hound

going to win the league now!

Kerrydude1981

Solid performance yesterday,3 points in the bag,

Flint Fredstone

Gregorym2 wrote: »

going to win the league now!

Be careful. Someone might use that in a multiquote to tell us we're all deluded.

MD1990

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Be careful. Someone might use that in a multiquote to tell us we're all deluded.

Could well be some new accounts looking to get approved in the Soccer section at the end of this season. Hope so anyway.

Deise Vu

TheDoc wrote: »

Why is it fashionable all of a sudden to use not being in Europe as a boost to a Premier League title charge?

That really bugs me. All the top coaches and players down the years would say how you'd get into the routine of midweek CL football and your week was tailored around it. And that you would hit form and understanding so much faster, and the team would be in better shape from the more regular competitive matches.

Seems to be a happy excuse for clubs now, and an advantage. What is the Champions league going the way of Europa league? Just a nuisance now? Incredible how many managers, fans etc. whine about it.

Of course it's just a cover up for a club failing miserably, but it's starting to creep in as an actual factor in discussions.

All the top teams are now playing a pressing game. That means more KMs and at a faster pace. Players just can't do that twice a week for 8 months. There is also the time wasted travelling when they could be resting / training. Then there is the time spent analysing opposition and going through specifics with players. No mid-week game means less analysis and more time to go through it. More games also equals more injuries.

I'm a Spurs fan, if we don't beat Monaco next, I would rather our third team take a 6 goal hammering from CSKA in our last match than go back into the EL.

TheDoc

Deise Vu wrote: »

All the top teams are now playing a pressing game. That means more KMs and at a faster pace. Players just can't do that twice a week for 8 months. There is also the time wasted travelling when they could be resting / training. Then there is the time spent analysing opposition and going through specifics with players. No mid-week game means less analysis and more time to go through it. More games also equals more injuries.

I'm a Spurs fan, if we don't beat Monaco next, I would rather our third team take a 6 goal hammering from CSKA in our last match than go back into the EL.

So then fair to say that style of play is not adequate with competing in the Premier league and Champions league? Or that the squads of said teams are not adequately stocked for that style?

Sorry but that shouldn't be acceptable for any club with aspirations of success.

Under no circumstance would I accept our club giving an excuse of CL omission as an advantage for a premier league win and for that to be justified.

Trigger

Deise Vu wrote: »

All the top teams are now playing a pressing game. That means more KMs and at a faster pace. Players just can't do that twice a week for 8 months. There is also the time wasted travelling when they could be resting / training. Then there is the time spent analysing opposition and going through specifics with players. No mid-week game means less analysis and more time to go through it. More games also equals more injuries.

I'm a Spurs fan, if we don't beat Monaco next, I would rather our third team take a 6 goal hammering from CSKA in our last match than go back into the EL.

No teams that use/used the pressing game have actually won the PL while having no European football

Liam McPoyle

Just saw a few stats of our conversion rate

Vs Hull : 29 shots, 1 goal
Vs Stoke : 24 shots, 1 goal
Vs Chelsea : 16 shots, 0 goal
Vs Burnley : 38 shots, 0 goals
Vs Swansea : 9 shots, 3 goals

First thing is that it pisses up the leg of the park the bus in every game brigade.

It also shows how much we have come on in the last 12 months.

We dominated the Scouse for an hour or so and if we had have been braver going forward we could well have gotten a goal or two.

The point I'm making is that even with a sort of mix and match approach to the team selection, we are still very capable of putting most teams to the sword if we can be more clinical up front.

It will be interesting to see how we line out against Arsenal with Zlatan suspended.

Hopefully Rashford or Martial in the CF position.

Its massively important we get some kind of result against them, even a draw would be acceptable. A loss and we are facing a massive up hill battle for top 4.

Talk of us going on a title run is wishful thinking. We will likely end up duking it out with Spurs and Arsenal for 4th.

There will be dropped points by all teams over the course of the year so all we can do is keep paddling our own canoe and not worry about other clubs and what they do.

Flint Fredstone

MD1990 wrote: »

Could well be some new accounts looking to get approved in the Soccer section at the end of this season. Hope so anyway.

What's that supposed to mean?

martinr5232

lee_baby_simms wrote:

There's been a lot of tears but a lot of laughter over the past 3 years.

There has that Stevie G slip has to be the best laugh of the whole lot.

Potential Underachiever

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

Just saw a few stats of our conversion rate

Vs Hull : 29 shots, 1 goal
Vs Stoke : 24 shots, 1 goal
Vs Chelsea : 16 shots, 0 goal
Vs Burnley : 38 shots, 0 goals
Vs Swansea : 9 shots, 3 goals

.

This reminds me of the mocking Liverpool got under Rodgers early doors when people kept looking at possession stats, 'well at least you won the possession match'. Shots isn't really a great metric to judge off, how about shots on target at least? After that what about actual quality chances created? Someone ballooning a shot into row z from 35 yards out is hardly worth anything of note is it?

After that of course the only really stat that matters is how many points from those games, that will make for grim enough reading. I know United were starved of attacking under LVG, it seems to have done a number on the fans, hence this weird obsession with shots lately.

Liam McPoyle

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

What's that supposed to mean?

He means that even if LFC win the league this year their fans will still obsess about United and United fans.

Priorities, innit.

Liam McPoyle

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

This reminds me of the mocking Liverpool got under Rodgers early doors when people kept looking at possession stats, 'well at least you won the possession match'. Shots isn't really a great metric to judge off, how about shots on target at least? After that what about actual quality chances created? Someone ballooning a shot into row z from 35 yards out is hardly worth anything of note is it?

After that of course the only really stat that matters is how many points from those games, that will make for grim enough reading. I know United were starved of attacking under LVG, it seems to have done a number on the fans, hence this weird obsession with shots lately.

What's it got to do with Brendan Rodgers?

Potential Underachiever

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

What's it got to do with Brendan Rodgers?

Did you stop reading when Rodgers name was mentioned?, if you carried on you would have seen why I mentioned his name.....Like Liverpool under Rodgers soon Utd fans will be mocked for saying 'but look how many shots we had' a lot of ye seem to be banging on about shots lately, shots shots shots!

Liam McPoyle

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Did you stop reading when Rodgers name was mentioned?, if you carried on you would have seen why I mentioned his name.....Like Liverpool under Rodgers soon Utd fans will be mocked for saying 'but look how many shots we had' a lot of ye seem to be banging on about shots lately, shots shots shots!

Why bring up a former Liverpool manager in response to a comment about the current United mangager though?

What purpose does it serve?

Lukekul

So lads it seems fairly obvious we need Carrick in the team.

But I'm afraid poor aul Mick isn't getting any younger, who do you replace him with? Give Blind a go?

In b4 doc says Kroos

sky88

Lukekul wrote: »

So lads it seems fairly obvious we need Carrick in the team.

But I'm afraid poor aul Mick isn't getting any younger, who do you replace him with? Give Blind a go?

In b4 doc says Kroos

i think if were talking current players giving blind a go at the base wouldn't be a bad idea as hes a better passer then morgan i feel. Outside the club im not really sure who i would go for.

Kroos is made by modric. madrid and kroos are made so much better by modric.

If kroos isnt in the team theres not much of a difference in madrid.

TheDoc

Lukekul wrote: »

So lads it seems fairly obvious we need Carrick in the team.

But I'm afraid poor aul Mick isn't getting any younger, who do you replace him with? Give Blind a go?

In b4 doc says Kroos

It's not obvious at all.

The only obvious conclusion from Carrick is that he is capable of doing a job against absolutely dire opposition. And that is fine, I could conceed we probably do need him against poorer opposition and he should be utilised as such.

There is no need for two deep midfielders or holding CM's against ****ebag teams. Play Carrick there holding, let Pogba do what he did yesterday and then you have Herrera more to the rightside of the pitch instead of Fellaini.

But lets not kid ourselves, Carrick is not a solution anywhere near longterm, and he is not the golden answer to this team clicking and blowing everyone away. And I sincerely don't believe he will be able to do the same job against teams of more quality.

But I'll say again what I keep saying, didn't see Carrick do anything yesterday that most of our midfielders could do against opposition like that. I think he's just getting over inflated in terms of his potential importance as he is an option we havn't seen much of yet. But there is a reason why.

There is a massive difference between the games he is playing, and the ones he is not. And there is a pretty obvious reason why he is NOT featuring in a lot of games.

In terms of players at our disposal, Blind is such an obvious answer it actually hurts.

MagicIRL

Mkhitaryan.

First Shinji and now Mickey Ryan. These make me sad.

The_Kew_Tour

#FreeMorgan

Leroy42

So Jose claims Smalling and Shaw are a bit soft and the press go to town on him possibly losing the dressing room.

Klopp says Sturridge needs to understand the difference between pain and injury and the press tell Sturridge to get over himself and Klopp is a genius. Wenger claims that his team possibly had mental issues after the peno for Spurs and nothing is said. Hows that for throwing your whole team under a bus!

Jose is, IMO, operating under the agreement that he can do anything he feels is right to make things better. If that means jettisoning some players then so be it.

sky88

TheDoc wrote: »

It's not obvious at all.

The only obvious conclusion from Carrick is that he is capable of doing a job against absolutely dire opposition. And that is fine, I could conceed we probably do need him against poorer opposition and he should be utilised as such.

There is no need for two deep midfielders or holding CM's against ****ebag teams. Play Carrick there holding, let Pogba do what he did yesterday and then you have Herrera more to the rightside of the pitch instead of Fellaini.

But lets not kid ourselves, Carrick is not a solution anywhere near longterm, and he is not the golden answer to this team clicking and blowing everyone away. And I sincerely don't believe he will be able to do the same job against teams of more quality.

But I'll say again what I keep saying, didn't see Carrick do anything yesterday that most of our midfielders could do against opposition like that. I think he's just getting over inflated in terms of his potential importance as he is an option we havn't seen much of yet. But there is a reason why.

There is a massive difference between the games he is playing, and the ones he is not. And there is a pretty obvious reason why he is NOT featuring in a lot of games.

In terms of players at our disposal, Blind is such an obvious answer it actually hurts.

This really frustrates me with former players just thinking that its only carrick that is going to solving the problem and he should be playing every game.

i think we played as well yesterday as we did against burnley except they took the chances yesterday

StringerBell

bangkok wrote: »

Liverpool have no Europe to worry about, klopp has them playing the best football in the league. I would be very worried about them

Its not the quality of the attacking play I am questioning, it is the ability to keep up that high octane strategy over the course of the season, with that squad.

Jayop

MagicIRL wrote: »

Mkhitaryan.

First Shinji and now Mickey Ryan. These make me sad.

He's done absolutely nothing when he's been on the pitch to earn the pining that certain people seem to have for him.

sky88

StringerBell wrote: »

Its not the quality of the attacking play I am questioning, it is the ability to keep up that high octane strategy over the course of the season, with that squad.

Liverpool and arsenal are simalr to me very good first 11s but not much strength in depth to cover if a few key injuries happen which will happen especially i think with Liverpool high pressing game.

crkball6

Jayop wrote: »

He's done absolutely nothing when he's been on the pitch to earn the pining that certain people seem to have for him.

I think they're "pining" for the player they believe him to be rather than the person who couldn't control a ball against city.