Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

Flint Fredstone

Interesting read.

https://twitter.com/jamiejackson___/status/795731935410712576

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

That's what Southgate said

“Our medical teams - as with all the clubs - have been liaising very closely throughout the week (with United). The decision with Luke was a bit later but we’ve been aware both have been carrying injuries"

So both are injured confirmed by doctors and they could not play. Don't see why Jose went and made a big deal about it especially as we won the game easy enough

No1 was arguing injured or not obviously what Jose's problem is they were training to be in the squad and line up but pulled out morning of the game. Sometimes players are assessed late or are 50 50 but it sounds like Jose was expecting them to be fit for purpose thats his problem with them.

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

Luke Shaw returned from that leg break 5 months ago. He returned last season. Since his return he has had a full pre-season but just 11 games in he still looks plain unfit. And no mention of these injections before now?

Your point doesn't hold water but you know what, even if it did, even if Shaw was still struggling with the after effects of the leg break, even if he is doing everything he could and busting his ass off to get fit but just needs some time, even if all that is true...

...he still needs to shut the **** up, stop blabbing to the press and get the **** on with it.

It takes a lot longer than 5 months to get over a leg break and back to the player you were!!

Injections wouldn't be uncommon, so no need to report it, but he was playing most games with injections.

Also, shaw is responding to what mourinho has said in the press, should all be done behind closed doors. He is playing a very dangerous game

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

No1 was arguing injured or not obviously what Jose's problem is they were training to be in the squad and line up but pulled out morning of the game. Sometimes players are assessed late or are 50 50 but it sounds like Jose was expecting them to be fit for purpose thats his problem with them.

**** happens, players get injured in the warmup as well sometimes, this would have been all planned ahead. I just think there was no need to name both players in the media.

bangkok

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Interesting read.

https://twitter.com/jamiejackson___/status/795731935410712576

Jones won't last long at the club so..

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

**** happens, players get injured in the warmup as well sometimes, this would have been all planned ahead. I just think there was no need to name both players in the media.

Why not? It's OK for klop to do it. But he's a genius according to the media

Too many sissys and crybabies who cry wolf whenever they receive an ickle bit of criticism

Soft so he is. Man the **** up and get on with it. Shaw gets paid enough

caviardreams

I am totally behind Jose if it means it roots out the players who aren't 100% committed to the cause tbh. I think that's been one of our problems - at times over the past few years it has looked like some of the players can't be bothered. I'd actually rather have 6 or 7 very good players giving 100% and willing to give everything for the shirt with 4/5 world class players, than 11 world class players who can't really be bothered (I am not saying we have either at the moment, it's an extreme example). In fairness I think a lot of players are fully committed e.g. Herrera, Blind, Fellaini, De Gea, Valencia, Young, Pogba, Bailly, Mata etc. but we could still do with a few more like Vidic in the team imo.

As an aside, probably already posted but Val is back in the gym training after his broken arm surgery

https://www.instagram.com/p/BMbzcNEjdz0/

Jayop

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Top 4?! Top of the league more like.

Hardly. That's only 12 points and were 8 behind the leaders already. It'll pit us in good shape though.

bangkok

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Why not? It's OK for klop to do it. But he's a genius according to the media

Too many sissys and crybabies who cry wolf whenever they receive an ickle bit of criticism

Soft so he is. Man the **** up and get on with it. Shaw gets paid enough

You would be wonderful at man management by the sounds of it

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

You would be wonderful at man management by the sounds of it

Moaning and winging for years some of this squad, about time I say

Man management only get you so far, some times a clipping is what's needed

limnam

bangkok wrote: »

You would be wonderful at man management by the sounds of it

The trick is to avoid signing pansies.

Rayne Wooney

If you don't know what Mourinho is trying to do you just don't understand what he's about. Working to raise the standards from the slums they've fallen into, he needs to develop an authority, a fear factor that says if you won't run through walls for me then I'll replace you with someone who will. If Shaw and Smalling react to this by trying to prove him wrong it'll benefit the players, the team and Mourinho, if not they'll play for the u23s.

Do people think the players have given their all the last 3 years on the pitch? Not even close, it's about time somebody tried to change that.

bangkok

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

If you don't know what Mourinho is trying to do you just don't understand what he's about. Working to raise the standards from the slums they've fallen into, he needs to develop an authority, a fear factor that says if you won't run through walls for me then I'll replace you with someone who will. If Shaw and Smalling react to this by trying to prove him wrong it'll benefit the players, the team and Mourinho, if not they'll play for the u23s.

Do people think the players have given their all the last 3 years on the pitch? Not even close, it's about time somebody tried to change that.

He tried the same with hazard last year at Chelsea and that blew up spectacularly in his face.

secman

limnam wrote: »

The trick is to avoid signing pansies.

Lovely:(

IamtheWalrus

bangkok wrote: »

Not sure why you are posting a picture of kagawa?

People on this thread raved about how great a player he was and his lack of ability to prove this was down to management not giving him a chance.

limnam

secman wrote: »

Lovely:(

Sorry. Over sensitive weak players.

secman

bangkok wrote: »

He tried the same with hazard last year at Chelsea and that blew up spectacularly in his face.

Hazard and about 10 more ... let alone the medical staff.

Nalz

Jayop wrote: »

Win those 4 and we're in the top 4 I reckon.

No way we will end up undefeated in those games nevermind winning them.

limnam

Nalz wrote: »

No way we will end up undefeated in those games nevermind winning them.

Undefeated I wouldn't wager against. I can see us coming away with 10 points.

Spurs have to go to the bridge then a CL game before us.
They play swansea in between though which might give them a chance to rest some players.

A problem for us we have to travel to zorya and have a day less rest.

Spurs haven't been great away from home.

Arsenal is a potential banana skin.

Should put palace and the toffee's to bed. :cool:

Giggsy11

bangkok wrote: »

He tried the same with hazard last year at Chelsea and that blew up spectacularly in his face.

No. He tried that with Hazard in Jose's first season and it worked superbly in the next season. He criticized Hazard for not covering his full back and shunning defensive work which made him to work harder.

bangkok

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

People on this thread raved about how great a player he was and his lack of ability to prove this was down to management not giving him a chance.

Kagawa played plenty of times under fergie, just didn't work out for him. Over 50 appearances in 2 seasons

bangkok

Giggsy11 wrote: »

No. He tried that with Hazard in Jose's first season and it worked superbly in the next season. He criticized Hazard for not covering his full back and shunning defensive work which made him to work harder.

The last thing you would want a player like hazard doing is defensive work. Let him be free and cause havoc for the opposition which he is doing this season. There was a major falling out with hazard last season as well over the doctor that went to treat him on the pitch, cost the doctor her job, squad turned on mourinho and he got fired

DM_7

In a time where Leicesters guts and thunder won the Premier League its obvious United's squad needs to be whipped into shape.

Once upon a time United had the hard work and desire but with players who also had a higher level of overall ability.

Jose needs to get them working again, he is at the club long enough to know if private discussions will do it or if it needs to be public.

Likes of Smalling and Shaw now have choices, crawl up their own arses or prove Jose wrong. Other players(if they had any doubts) know they need to work hard for the team.

Jose has to deal with that fall out internally, its a good sign that he is still prepared for a fight like this one.

Giggsy11

bangkok wrote: »

The last thing you would want a player like hazard doing is defensive work. Let him be free and cause havoc for the opposition which he is doing this season. There was a major falling out with hazard last season as well over the doctor that went to treat him on the pitch, cost the doctor her job, squad turned on mourinho and he got fired

That's not the point. Jose criticized Hazard but instead of breaking down Hazard played his best season in PL.

secman

Giggsy11 wrote: »

That's not the point. Jose criticized Hazard but instead of breaking down Hazard played his best season in PL.

And what happened last season ?

The_Kew_Tour

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

If you don't know what Mourinho is trying to do you just don't understand what he's about. Working to raise the standards from the slums they've fallen into, he needs to develop an authority, a fear factor that says if you won't run through walls for me then I'll replace you with someone who will. If Shaw and Smalling react to this by trying to prove him wrong it'll benefit the players, the team and Mourinho, if not they'll play for the u23s.

Do people think the players have given their all the last 3 years on the pitch? Not even close, it's about time somebody tried to change that.

If I could thank this post twice I would

Hococop

secman wrote: »

And what happened last season ?

Players turned on him but Chelsea have done that a few times, pretty sure lampard and terry turned the team against avb

Trigger

Neil Ashton is reporting that the players are backing Jose over Smalling and Shaw.

It's on the Sun so I'm not linking to it.

Cantona's Collars

astradave wrote: »

Neil Ashton is reporting that the players are backing Jose over Smalling and Shaw.

It's on the Sun so I'm not linking to it.

The Express has an exclusive story about Shaw. As I said the other day,international break means sources talking to the media.

Lord TSC

zerks wrote: »

The Express has an exclusive story about Shaw. As I said the other day,international break means sources talking to the media.

Is that the Jamie Jackson article? He seems to be the journalist the players are relying on to get their stories out.

Leroy42

I have some sympathy for Shaw, a very serious injury and we all discussed at the time the possible psychological effects on top of the physical. He has done very well to come back but does seem to be carry a bit a weight and has certainly lost some pace. Whether that is done to him not working hard enough or simply the new level he is at is open to question but Jose obviously believes it is down to Shaw himself.

Smalling, I have less time for. I don't overly rate him in the 1st place, I think he is a decent but nothing special CB. In saying that, with the current defense we have he really should be a shoo in. Bailly would already be ahead of him, IMO, but since he is new I would expect Smalling's experience to win out in the short term.

But Smalling has certainly regressed since last year. He had a good half a season, up to about Christmas, but since then he went backwards and was nothing special. He did nothing in the Euros to say he was world class. Jose dropped him at the start of the season and he was even dropped from England. Sure he wasn't getting his game for United, but he obviously was not showing anything amazing in their camp to muscle his way in.

It is clear that this utd team is in a crisis, the results the previous few weeks were very poor and Jose is asking for players to stand up to be counted. I am nt sure I agree with the way he is doing it, I would have kept it private but the overall message I agree with.

Lord TSC

Leroy42 wrote: »

It is clear that this utd team is in a crisis, the results the previous few weeks were very poor and Jose is asking for players to stand up to be counted. I am nt sure I agree with the way he is doing it, I would have kept it private but the overall message I agree with.

Do you not think it's likely he tried to do it in private first, and that we have already seen the results of keeping it private? I'd doubt that his first port of call was a public attack. He is doing this in a bid to give them a kick up the ass, because whatever he was doing up till now wasn't getting the results he wanted.

Leroy42

Lord TSC wrote: »

Do you not think it's likely he tried to do it in private first, and that we have already seen the results of keeping it private? I'd doubt that his first port of call was a public attack. He is doing this in a bid to give them a kick up the ass, because whatever he was doing up till now wasn't getting the results he wanted.

Yes, I agree. I am sure he did bring it up in private and didn't get a response. Still, I would have just dropped him rather than, IMO, risk the morale of the team etc.

But then there is a reason why I am posting on a forum and Jose is one of the top managers in the world so I'll defer to him!

secman

Hococop wrote: »

Players turned on him but Chelsea have done that a few times, pretty sure lampard and terry turned the team against avb

That's exactly what we do not need, do it privately, keep it in the camp, no need to be airing dirty laundry.

crkball6

secman wrote: »

That's exactly what we do not need, do it privately, keep it in the camp, no need to be airing dirty laundry.

Why?

Do you know how many season tickets have to be sold to pay Luke Shaws wages?

It'll do him no harm.

It's all been blown way OTT again the same as it was when it was pointed out Shaw didn't close down his man.

Jose *NEEDS* to do whatever he thinks is best to get the best from the squad. If that turns out to be wrong so be it but he has to do and should be allowed to do for his duration what he thinks is best.

Maybe you can tell us what you did to get the best out of 20+ millionaire footballers and we can pass it on to Jose.

TheDoc

It's incredible seeing the change of opinion on RedCafe about Shaw. He has gone from being "world class in the making" and our "left back for ten years" to "the new Rafael" and replaceable..

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

It's incredible seeing the change of opinion on RedCafe about Shaw. He has gone from being "world class in the making" and our "left back for ten years" to "the new Rafael" and replaceable..

Only has his attitude to blame for that

Lord TSC

TheDoc wrote: »

It's incredible seeing the change of opinion on RedCafe about Shaw. He has gone from being "world class in the making" and our "left back for ten years" to "the new Rafael" and replaceable..

He's made it a bit easy on Jose, between his brother, the fact the second they get off on international duty, there's a "sources close to the player..." story, and the fact he's not been that good so far this season.

I do think he has potential to be world class, but there's obviously issues there, and if he's being singled out in terms of work ethic....people are sick of three years of no passion, no drive behind the players, and want someone to vent at. Rightly, that's not Jose, who has only been there for a few months of that time. It's the players, and Shaw (and Smalling) are the ones who seemingly are walking into the crosshairs here...

Kerrydude1981

If any other manager said it there would be noting about it

But when its Jose,the media just lose the run of themselves

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

It's incredible seeing the change of opinion on RedCafe about Shaw. He has gone from being "world class in the making" and our "left back for ten years" to "the new Rafael" and replaceable..

Jose is doing a great job of pinning the blame for our problems on the players. The gobshíte majority are always going to jump at the chance to vent about "over payed prima donas" and the like.

sky88

With shaw as well its now 2 managers that have commentated publicly on his fitness its clearly some problem were hes not at the fitness they expect. Granted he deserves some leeway on his horrible injury he suffered.

crkball6

Pro. F wrote: »

Jose is doing a great job of pinning the blame for our problems on the players. The gobshíte majority are always going to jump at the chance to vent about "over payed prima donas" and the like.

Just to be clear, I don't care how much he gets paid I brought it up to highlight who pays his wages, not how much he's on.

jambofc

my understanding is that if injured the medical team would have said so....
it seems both players themselves decided they weren't fit

Cantona's Collars

We've gone from 2 managers where the players had too much power to one who will not tolerate that carry on. Time for a certain few to man up and play for the badge and stop running to the papers every time their boss hurts their feelings for not doing their job to the best of their abilities.
My boss wouldn't tolerate it,I don't tolerate it and have bawled people out of it in front of others,they are men,not little kids so they should stand up and be counted or fukc off somewhere else that mediocrity is tolerated.

Pro. F

crkball6 wrote: »

Just to be clear, I don't care how much he gets paid I brought it up to highlight who pays his wages, not how much he's on.

The "over paid prima donas" bit is the least important aspect of these complaints. It's just one of a few tropes that people use when venting about players. It can just as often be "lack of leaders" or "lack of desire" or whatever. The relevant issue is that fans love to give out about players and they don't bother to look critically at obvious mistakes made by managers. Jose is benefiting from that. There is zero focus on how Jose hasn't built a big enough squad and how he has over-played the players with the quick Europa PL turnaround and there is loads of focus on the players' attitudes.

Even after the two horrendous managers we had before Jose, fans are still blaiming the players' attitudes for those bad seasons. Many fans just like the idea of a manager sticking it to the players too much to think sensibly about these things.

Lucas Hood

jambofc wrote: »

my understanding is that if injured the medical team would have said so....
it seems both players themselves decided they weren't fit

You know you're own body better than anyone else.

I don't believe shaw or smalling would intentionally force themselves out of reckoning for a game unless they felt it was necessary.

secman

crkball6 wrote: »

Why?



Maybe you can tell us what you did to get the best out of 20+ millionaire footballers and we can pass it on to Jose.

Nice to know you have a direct line to Jose , does he know ?
I've only suggested keeping it indoors and that applies to all concerned. Mourinho can and has lost dressing rooms and and is walking a tight rope here, hasn't won over all the fans yet either, some are still open minded and not all praise and glory to the special one.

jayo26

Lord TSC wrote: »

He's made it a bit easy on Jose, between his brother, the fact the second they get off on international duty, there's a "sources close to the player..." story, and the fact he's not been that good so far this season.

I do think he has potential to be world class, but there's obviously issues there, and if he's being singled out in terms of work ethic....people are sick of three years of no passion, no drive behind the players, and want someone to vent at. Rightly, that's not Jose, who has only been there for a few months of that time. It's the players, and Shaw (and Smalling) are the ones who seemingly are walking into the crosshairs here...

Can i just point out that this is not the case this time

I think the problem here is the media has blown it l up again and the fans jump to conclusions over it. He didn't slate Luke or Mike he just said in a nutshell he wants players to give their all for fathers club and them players forced him to change around his defence last minute.

Whats gonna happen out of it? Two players going to sulk? No they need to play football and both are under contract id imagine they will knuckle down and if not they will be sold and I have no problem with that.

We have complained long enough about players not putting in the effort and what not well now it looks like we have a manager that's going to weed them players out and so be it. Bring it on jose.

Trigger

jayo26 wrote: »

Can i just point out that this is not the case this time

Pretty sure I read a few articles that came out saying that Shaw was dumbfounded and upset/angry with the critisism.

Ill have a look and try find them.. I might be imagining things though

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

Jose is doing a great job of pinning the blame for our problems on the players. The gobshíte majority are always going to jump at the chance to vent about "over payed prima donas" and the like.

Lol