Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

Pro. F

Liam O wrote: »

So what if Blind steps back, lets the player try to control it or flick it on and nips in, deals with it and finds a United player? Is that better than a contested header won that could go anywhere?

Like I said to Doc, it depends on the situation. There are plenty of sitations where the CB can stand off as you describe and that can be a good solution. It is also trivially easy to think of many common situations that require CBs to win headers in order to help their team. Theorising that every defensive sitation faced by CBs can be appropriately dealt with by the CB standing off is ridiculous.

Liam O wrote: »

I picked tackles won as it's the closest thing to aerial duels. It's 2 players going for the same ball. Blind waits for players to make a mistake and show their hand. He's not a proactive defender bar when he has the ball at his feet. Having 2 balls to the wall CBs who get drawn out and go for everything like Smalling and Bailly can be problematic.

Like I said, there is an important difference between how tackles won and aerial duels won are measured. The stats providers do not treat them in the same way. You picked it as the closest thing, but it's not that close. And even if it was, it is still the case that Blind was dead last in the league by a very wide margin for aerial duels won %, but there was no corresponding bad result for tackles won % from Smalling or Blind, or any other CB we might be looking to buy.

Waiting for opposition forwards to make a mistake when the ball is crossed into the six yard box or when a long vertical pass is directed at an opposition player who has good options to lay it off to is a bad thing. CBs who are so passive in the air create problems for their teams.

Your description of Smalling and Bailly is misleading. They aren't some sort of poor decision makers who step forward when they shouldn't. In fact all modern defensive schemes assume that the defender who is in the same channel as a vertical pass will step up to meet it, if it is going to bypass the midfield (either in the air or on the ground), and the other defenders arrange themselves behind that.

Liam O wrote: »

The fact that Mbemba and Collocini, one an experienced PL defender and the other an absolute unit are winning less than half of their duels it indicates that there's a problem with these stats.

Mbemba and Coloccini were both awful last season. Holding them up as examples of any sort competence is wrong.

Liam O wrote: »

What about when a cross comes in and they are in position to head away and the attacker doesn't bother to jump? Surely that's a plus for them in the air but wouldn't be incorporated in those stats?

Yeah, if Blind is playing against a team who's forwards never try to get on the end of any of their crosses then Blind would be fine. He is going to face a lot of teams who are better than that.

The_Kew_Tour

If that was Cl group we be saying it's easy one

RobertKK

The cup winners cup was the first European title with Fergie.
Would be excellent if Jose could get his first European title with United this year.

Chris_Bradley

Across at OT last week & I'd say both Rooney & Blind could lose regular first-team football in that team.

Chris_Bradley

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

If that was Cl group we be saying it's easy one

Agreed, but as far as this cup goes - It's a toughy

Lord TSC

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

If that was Cl group we be saying it's easy one

We'd probably be expecting a stronger team in the CL from Jose. Don't get me wrong, I think we'll top the group, but I'm presuming it's our second-string team we will be seeing, and its comparing their level to those teams that makes me think it's a "tougher" group....

RobertKK

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

If that was Cl group we be saying it's easy one

True, I think two of the locations are the real issues, Feyenoord the only decent away location, given Turkey is not all that stable and Ukraine still has issues.

RobertKK

The press conference for the Hull game on at 1pm.

MUTV just showed Niall Quinn giving Gary Pallister a boot in the face.

Jayop

If it was the champions league we'd be playing our best players. In this we were hoping to rest players and give the others game time.

The_Kew_Tour

Lord TSC wrote: »

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

If that was Cl group we be saying it's easy one

We'd probably be expecting a stronger team in the CL from Jose. Don't get me wrong, I think we'll top the group, but I'm presuming it's our second-string team we will be seeing, and its comparing their level to those teams that makes me think it's a "tougher" group....

That's a fair point one I did not think about, although like you we should top group.

11 points at worst

Pro. F

zerks wrote: »

I watched Blind up close marking Lukaku,a player that has destroyed us in the past and he marked him out of the game. The one chance Lukaku got was when he moved over to Smallings side and got through. Guess who read the situation and blocked the shot,yes Blind. Watching how he reads the game in real life is an eye opener,he is class at it.The game is more nuanced than how many headers a player wins.
Teams don't really play get it wide,cross it in football anymore so CBs who can read runs and cut off through balls tend to be more important.

Yeah, he did well against Lukaku. But Everton didn't get any sort of close support to Lukaku to play off him, Martinez's tactics were comically bad. If they had done so, then we would have had a lot of trouble from Lukaku lay-offs from all those long balls Blind didn't contest.

The game is more nuanced than how well a defender marks an opponent once he has received the ball.

RobertKK

Jose says the group is like being in the CL and it is good because of that.

RobertKK

---

Romero----
Darmian--Smalling--Jones--Young
----Herrera---Schneiderlin---
Lingard--Mkhitaryan--Memphis

---

Rashford---

---

De Gea---
Valencia--Bailly--Blind--Shaw
----Fellaini--Pogba----
Mata---Rooney--Martial

---

Ibrahimovic----

You can change players between the two teams, but we have the best squad in a very long time.

dubmick

Andreas Pereira going on loan to Spanish club Granada.

brinty

RobertKK wrote: »

---

Romero----
Darmian--Smalling--Jones--Young
----Herrera---Schneiderlin---
Lingard--Mkhitaryan--Memphis

---

Rashford---

---

De Gea---
Valencia--Bailly--Blind--Shaw
----Fellaini--Pogba----
Mata---Rooney--Martial

---

Ibrahimovic----

You can change players between the two teams, but we have the best squad in a very long time.

Rojo and Carrick will not be happy with you Sir

RobertKK

Schweinsteiger will not play for United again. Jose says not impossible he will play but very unlikely, and younger players at the club will get a chance before Bastian would.

RobertKK

brinty wrote: »

Rojo will not be happy with you Sir

Who???

:P:P :pac:

Thepoet85

The_Kew_Tour wrote:

If that was Cl group we be saying it's easy one

It's a tougher group than Leicester have!

Lord TSC

"I thought after quotes from Bayern they would run to Manc to bring him back."

lol shots fired :P

Also saying he's happy with the squad and doesn't see any more deals being done.

RobertKK

Jose: Mike Phelan deserves the Hull job.

Chris_Bradley

Lets get real here - Schweinsteiger who has had an amazing career is now, and has looked like an overweight baby-elephant for far too long.

I wouldn't play him & anyone with any sense of the game wouldn't either.

HigginsJ

RobertKK wrote: »

---

Romero----
Darmian--Smalling--Jones--Young
----Herrera---Schneiderlin---
Lingard--Mkhitaryan--Memphis

---

Rashford---

---

De Gea---
Valencia--Bailly--Blind--Shaw
----Fellaini--Pogba----
Mata---Rooney--Martial

---

Ibrahimovic----

You can change players between the two teams, but we have the best squad in a very long time.

I assume he will but does everyone else think that Jose will play entirely second string teams for the group stage and then re-assess it if we make the knock out phases?

Chris_Bradley

Chris_Bradley wrote: »

Lets get real here - Schweinsteiger who has had an amazing career is now, and has looked like an overweight baby-elephant for far too long.

I wouldn't play him & anyone with any sense of the game wouldn't either.

Ya im surprised he got through 80 minutes of a semi final in the euros without having a heart attack :rolleyes:

Korat

I think Daley Blind has looked a lot better with Bailly acting as an enforcer. Though I don’t see Blind as a first choice CB in the long term he can certainly do a good job for us now. He has similar shortcomings to his father but he wasn’t a bad player either. He’s as effective as Rooney is in certain games of the season while looking equally below standard against teams that can exploit his weaknesses. But Blind isn’t tying up huge wages to sit on the bench or in the stands when necessary.

inforfun

Now tell me how to get tickets for Man Utd - Feyenoord without my Dutch name making that impossible for me

Feyenoord is walking on very, very thin ice and the stadium will be reduced to 26.000 only.
And i am pretty sure they will advise/ask Utd not to sell any ticket for Old Trafford to anyone with a Dutch sounding name.
Getting a ticket via Feyenoord will also be impossible for me as they will be handed out to the most loyal (as it comes to visiting home and away matches) first.

So...... tickets...

IamtheWalrus

Fenerbache? Ronnie Johnsen get togged out.

v3ttel

Chris_Bradley wrote: »

Lets get real here - Schweinsteiger who has had an amazing career is now, and has looked like an overweight baby-elephant for far too long.

I wouldn't play him & anyone with any sense of the game wouldn't either.

Yes, yes indeed.

Let's "get real" by comparing professional footballers to baby elephants.

And then let's say that anyone who disagrees is clueless - just to make sure our argument is completely watertight.

Welcome to the real world everyone.

RasTa

inforfun wrote: »

So...... tickets...

At Old Trafford? They will be easy to get once you don't mind sitting in the home end. Thursday night games won't be too popular.

Check the ticket thread and toutless.ie

Polo_Mint

15 Sep - Feyenoord (A), 18:00 BST

29 Sep - Zorya (H), 20:05 BST

20 Oct - Fenerbahce (H), 20:05 BST

3 Nov - Fenerbahce (A), 18:00 GMT

24 Nov - Feyenoord (H), 20:05 GMT

8 Dec - Zorya (A), 18:00 GMT

jayo26

Men interpretation of his comments on bastian is offering him a lifeline haha it was anything but a lifeline it was mourinho clearly telling bastian look stay if you want but you won't be playing.

I think the standoff is over his contract.. United want bastian to seek a move and negotiate it so they don't have to pay up his contract and obviously bastian wants his contract so he will play it all nice and hold out.

Im just hoping Bastian gets enough games to be able to get a league medal at the end of the year :cool:

jayo26

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Im just hoping Bastian gets enough games to be able to get a league medal at the end of the year :cool:

I'm not sure what the amount of games he needs in the u23s but I'm sure he will.

eagle eye

Chris_Bradley wrote: »

Lets get real here - Schweinsteiger who has had an amazing career is now, and has looked like an overweight baby-elephant for far too long.

I wouldn't play him & anyone with any sense of the game wouldn't either.

Ah come on, they don't look alike

heyjude

Polo_Mint wrote: »

15 Sep - Feyenoord (A), 18:00 BST

29 Sep - Zorya (H), 20:05 BST

20 Oct - Fenerbahce (H), 20:05 BST

3 Nov - Fenerbahce (A), 18:00 GMT

24 Nov - Feyenoord (H), 20:05 GMT

8 Dec - Zorya (A), 18:00 GMT

Just looking at the league fixtures for the weekends after these matches

18 Sep Watford (A) 12 noon kickoff

2 Oct Stoke (H) 12 noon kickoff

23 Oct Chelsea (A) 4pm kickoff

6 Nov Swansea (A) 3pm kickoff

27 Nov West Ham (H) 4.30pm kickoff

11 Dec Tottenham (H) 3pm kickoff

At least we don't face City, Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool after the long trips to Turkey and the Ukraine. The Tottenham game looks the trickiest as Utd will be travelling home from the Ukraine, while Spurs will have faced CSKA Moscow at White Hart Lane the previous night.(Dec 7th)

Chris_Bradley

eagle eye wrote: »

Ah come on, they don't look alike

Hahaha!! Brilliant :D

RobertKK

So that will be a tough week in October:

Liverpool Away - Monday 17th
Fenerbahce Home- Thursday 20th
Chelsea Away - Sunday 23th

Definitely needs to play the B team on the Thursday.

IncognitoMan

RobertKK wrote: »

So that will be a tough week in October:

Liverpool Away - Monday 17th
Fenerbahce Home- Thursday 20th
Chelsea Away - Sunday 23th

Definitely needs to play the B team on the Thursday.

Chelsea game will surely have to be changed to Monday?

Jayop

RobertKK wrote: »

So that will be a tough week in October:

Liverpool Away - Monday 17th
Fenerbahce Home- Thursday 20th
Chelsea Away - Sunday 23th

Definitely needs to play the B team on the Thursday.

That's farcical.

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

So that will be a tough week in October:

Liverpool Away - Monday 17th
Fenerbahce Home- Thursday 20th
Chelsea Away - Sunday 23th

Definitely needs to play the B team on the Thursday.

Send the u21s as in all of them and anyone who wouldnt make the squad at the weekends..

Jayop

Deleted User wrote: »

Send the u21s as in all of them and anyone who wouldnt make the squad at the weekends..

Can't really risk it given it's only the third game. If we win the first two though I can see a very depleted side for that one.

RobertKK

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Chelsea game will surely have to be changed to Monday?

It is before the international break, and the TV schedule for the games is set.

stephenl15

heyjude wrote: »

Just looking at the league fixtures for the weekends after these matches

18 Sep Watford (A) 12 noon kickoff

2 Oct Stoke (H) 12 noon kickoff

23 Oct Chelsea (A) 4pm kickoff

6 Nov Swansea (A) 3pm kickoff

27 Nov West Ham (H) 4.30pm kickoff

11 Dec Tottenham (H) 3pm kickoff

At least we don't face City, Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool after the long trips to Turkey and the Ukraine. The Tottenham game looks the trickiest as Utd will be travelling home from the Ukraine, while Spurs will have faced CSKA Moscow at White Hart Lane the previous night.(Dec 7th)

Has that time and date been confirmed? As I'll be going to it

Whatsisname

Don't know if I'm doing a zerks on it but Pereira's gone on loan to Granada for the season. Hopefully does well. Rate him very highly myself.

Jayop

Jayop wrote: »

Can't really risk it given it's only the third game. If we win the first two though I can see a very depleted side for that one.

Id say def risk it, league is no1 priority, no matter what surely that liverpool game will be ,oved back though or can it now?

Jayop

Deleted User wrote: »

Id say def risk it, league is no1 priority, no matter what surely that liverpool game will be ,oved back though or can it now?

Dunno, once the Sky schedule is set I'd say it's tough to move games. The only blessing is that the midweek game is at home and the Liverpool game is only a few miles up the road so no massive travel involved in either of those.

It's a big week and I agree that the midweek game is the least important of them all, but winning breeds winning and Jose would like to keep any run we could be on going before the Chelsea game which will be massive for him personally and built up to "EPIC" proportions by Sky.

Jayop

Jayop wrote: »

Dunno, once the Sky schedule is set I'd say it's tough to move games. The only blessing is that the midweek game is at home and the Liverpool game is only a few miles up the road so no massive travel involved in either of those.

It's a big week and I agree that the midweek game is the least important of them all, but winning breeds winning and Jose would like to keep any run we could be on going before the Chelsea game which will be massive for him personally and built up to "EPIC" proportions by Sky.

I read them as all being away for some reason doh, ah we should have a big enough and good enough squad to mix and match to keep things fresh

RobertKK

Manchester United have to travel the second furthest in European competitions according to MUTV, only Dundalk have to travel further.

Dundalk: 8,810 miles
United: 7,454 miles
City by contrast have to travel: 2,914 miles.

Jayop

Poor Dundalk!

inforfun

RobertKK wrote: »

Manchester United have to travel the second furthest in European competitions according to MUTV, only Dundalk have to travel further.

Dundalk: 8,810 miles
United: 7,454 miles
City by contrast have to travel: 2,914 miles.

Is that Manchester traveling to Luhansk?

Feyenoord played Luhansk 2 years ago in Kiev and so did Legia last year.
Dont think they will play in Luhansk for a while with the **** that is going on there.

Not a 1000 miles difference but still shorter.

Adamocovic

Apologies if the conference has been posted already.