Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

Flint Fredstone

I give up :pac:

Mantis Toboggan

adox wrote: »

You are naive if you think he is there mainly for the set pieces. The position he is playing is hugely important to the team, allowing Pogba a much freer role along side him.

Not a hope in hell that Herrera can play that role.

Mourinho pretty much said in the interview after the game that Fellani' main role in the team is for defending set pieces.

deaddonkey15

zerks wrote: »

Your inability to understand the fundamentals of being a leader are staggering. Plus try reading the post again before jumping in. Especially the line about 8/10 performances.
Your blind defence of a player that needs to be phased out and that our most successful manager would have gotten rid of if he'd stayed in charge a bit longer is borderline delusional.

Standard response to me really. Like other posters you fail to answer any of my questions about your post and instead suggest I'm delusional for challenging the points you made and simply asking for evidence. Ironic that I'm delusional for writing a few objective posts about Rooney whilst other posters are actually taking time out of their lives to make videos of all his involvements in a game that he won for us in an effort to make him look bad. That's pretty sad to be honest, but he's on the right side of the Rooney debate so it's only me that's delusional (and Mourinho apparently, so I'm not in bad company am I?).

zerks wrote: »

To be the main man,you have to give a minimum 8/10 every game.He no longer does this.In truth,he never really did

This was what you wrote. It clearly suggests that Rooney never put in a 8/10 performance for United, which is why I asked you about it but of course you didn't answer that or any of my questions.

I know what being a leader is, I just don't now where you got the minimum 8/10 performance criteria from. I suspect that you just pulled it out of your arse. I would think that a good sign of a leader would be a player that steps up and wins a difficult away game for us in the dying moments exactly like what Rooney did. Already though, someone has put that moment down to a moment of stupidity in the Hull defence, rather than give Rooney any credit.

In terms of my "blind defence", I'm just calling out the over the top critcism of Rooney when he does something bad, and complete disregard of anything he does well. Whether Ferguson would have gotten rid of Rooney or not is impossible to tell. Even if he did, who's to say it would have been the right move? You may recall the club spent a world record amount of money this summer to buy back a player that Ferguson refused to play - instead opting for a partnership of Park and Rafael which costed us a league title. It wasn't the most expensive footballer in history that won the game for us yesterday either.

Cantona's Collars

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Standard response to me really. Like other posters you fail to answer any of my questions about your post and instead suggest I'm delusional for challenging the points you made and simply asking for evidence. Ironic that I'm delusional for writing a few objective posts about Rooney whilst other posters are actually taking time out of their lives to make videos of all his involvements in a game that he won for us in an effort to make him look bad. That's pretty sad to be honest, but he's on the right side of the Rooney debate so it's only me that's delusional (and Mourinho apparently, so I'm not in bad company am I?).



This was what you wrote. It clearly suggests that Rooney never put in a 8/10 performance for United, which is why I asked you about it but of course you didn't answer that or any of my questions.

I know what being a leader is, I just don't now where you got the minimum 8/10 performance criteria from. I suspect that you just pulled it out of your arse. I would think that a good sign of a leader would be a player that steps up and wins a difficult away game for us in the dying moments exactly like what Rooney did. Already though, someone has put that moment down to a moment of stupidity in the Hull defence, rather than give Rooney any credit.

In terms of my "blind defence", I'm just calling out the over the top critcism of Rooney when he does something bad, and complete disregard of anything he does well. Whether Ferguson would have gotten rid of Rooney or not is impossible to tell. Even if he did, who's to say it would have been the right move? You may recall the club spent a world record amount of money this summer to buy back a player that Ferguson refused to play - instead opting for a partnership of Park and Rafael which costed us a league title. It wasn't the most expensive footballer in history that won the game for us yesterday either.

I said 8/10 EVERY game. This is to be expected from top drawer players. Maybe I expect too much from the club captain to put in a performance above acceptable.

jayo26

https://www.instagram.com/p/BJpgR-pA3iy/

5 year ago today

deaddonkey15

zerks wrote: »

I said 8/10 EVERY game. This is to be expected from top drawer players. Maybe I expect too much from the club captain to put in a performance above acceptable.

Yes let's ignore actual measurable contributions to winning matches that Rooney has made in terms of goals and assists and use purely subjective metrics such as rating players out of ten. Only player in the squad to have either scored or assisted in every league game this season (that shows decent leadership to me), but let's drop him because his 7.8/10 doesn't quite reach the magic 8 as specified by no one. I don't recall any 8/10 performances from Mata or Martial yet but they don't have the captain's armband so we can afford to carry them in the side as passengers.

Trigger

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Mourinho pretty much said in the interview after the game that Fellani' main role in the team is for defending set pieces.

I didn't see that and can't find anything that says as much. have you got a link to that quote?

jayo26

Lads ok so rooney ain't been the best but he has still contributed where it counts.

We have won 4 competitive games in a row against teams we were not beating last year.

We have scored 8 goals in them 4 games.

We have conceded 2 goals in them games and looked solid in defence.

Last two games rooney has set up the winning goal.

Zlatan plays shiet but it's OK cause he usually scores which infairness he does but rooney usually pulls out an assistant from nowhere too so surely he deserves the same bit of slack.

Team is tipping away well with rooney in the 10 position if it's a problem jose won't settle for it but right now it's good.

StringerBell

Zlatan was not ****e yesterday

Liam McPoyle

StringerBell wrote: »

Zlatan was not ****e yesterday

I'd love love love to see him and Rashers play up front together.

Imagine his positional sensibilities and touches coupled with Rashers pace and movement.

Mmmmmm, goals.

Pro. F

jayo26 wrote: »

So your expecting a team mate to drop in and help out zlatan when he is not where a number nine should be or running like a number nine should.....

Now where have we heard you scorn something similar to that before with our centerbacks

Teammates swapping about and filling in for each other in terms of location and roles is normal. I never said it wasn't. That doesn't mean that any flaw in any player can be covered by teammates filling in. There are some fundamental required skills and attributes for every position.

GSPfan

I actually hate players running into the crowd and their should probably be harsher sanctions on players who do it. It freaks me out even thinking about it. Thats one thing Rashford gets criticism for yesterday but everything else was brilliant.

adox

Pro. F wrote: »

Never mind Tyson, but I am a bit optomistic about how Herrera is developing the aspects of his play required for that deeper CM role. I remember him showing some promise in that role against Chelsea under LVG (although he did make one mistake in the build up to their to goal). And he's played it a bit (kind of job sharing with the other CM) under Jose already and looked good.

Id love nothing more to be proven wrong about him but I've just never seen him as a "proper" midfielder. Not one that can play in a two and certainly not the role Fellaini has being playing. inthink Herrera is only truly affective when playing in a midfield three, the more advanced of the three. Not quite an out and out ten but certainly further forward than his two partners.
His natural instinct seems to be to run forward. He has a bit of everything about his game. Very good passer and also very good tackler, despite his size. We have better attacking options than him and better defensive options than him but what he does have going for him is that he is very good at most things.

I've said it before and I may be way off the mark but, I still worry about our midfield. We have the quantity there but in not sure we have the right players. Pogba is a fantastic player but you need a certain type of player beside him and bar Fellaini I do t thei k we have it. I honestly don't think Herrera can fill that role, Carrick possibly could as a stop gap and I don't see Morgan filling it either. In fact at this stage I think the money may have been wasted on Morgan. New manager now though so let's hope he picks up his form and application.

deaddonkey15

jayo26 wrote: »

Lads ok so rooney ain't been the best but he has still contributed where it counts.

We have won 4 competitive games in a row against teams we were not beating last year.

We have scored 8 goals in them 4 games.

We have conceded 2 goals in them games and looked solid in defence.

Last two games rooney has set up the winning goal.

Zlatan plays shiet but it's OK cause he usually scores which infairness he does but rooney usually pulls out an assistant from nowhere too so surely he deserves the same bit of slack.

Team is tipping away well with rooney in the 10 position if it's a problem jose won't settle for it but right now it's good.

My thought's exactly, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Or if it must be fixed, at least start by taking out forwards that aren't contributing goals before removing the one player that's contributing the most. Delusional logic perhaps but they're my thoughts on the situation.

Liam McPoyle

adox wrote: »

Id love nothing more to be proven wrong about him but I've just never seen him as a "proper" midfielder. Not one that can play in a two and certainly not the role Fellaini has being playing. inthink Herrera is only truly affective when playing in a midfield three, the more advanced of the three. Not quite an out and out ten but certainly further forward than his two partners.
His natural instinct seems to be to run forward. He has a bit of everything about his game. Very good passer and also very good tackler, despite his size. We have better attacking options than him and better defensive options than him but what he does have going for him is that he is very good at most things.

I've said it before and I may be way off the mark but, I still worry about our midfield. We have the quantity there but in not sure we have the right players. Pogba is a fantastic player but you need a certain type of player beside him and bar Fellaini I do t thei k we have it. I honestly don't think Herrera can fill that role, Carrick possibly could as a stop gap and I don't see Morgan filling it either. In fact at this stage I think the money may have been wasted on Morgan. New manager now though so let's hope he picks up his form and application.

What about Daley?

Move him up and drop Mike in beside Bailly.

jayo26

Pro. F wrote: »

Teammates swapping about and filling in for each other in terms of location and roles is normal. I never said it wasn't. That doesn't mean that any flaw in any player can be covered by teammates filling in. There are some fundamental required skills and attributes for every position.

No no your just talking nonsense now I win

Kerrydude1981

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

I'd love love love to see him and Rashers play up front together.

Imagine his positional sensibilities and touches coupled with Rashers pace and movement.

Mmmmmm, goals.

Something I would like to see as well,Rashford put in a peach of ball yesterday whipped it in behind the Hull defence and then it showed Ibra disgusted with himself that he didnt attack it

jayo26

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Something I would like to see as well,Rashford put in a peach of ball yesterday whipped it in behind the Hull defence and then it showed Ibra disgusted with himself that he didnt attack it

I think we will see it at some stage of season. Loads of games to come I'm just excited to see Rashford play. He could kick a ball against a wall and I bet he would still make it look exciting.

Liam O

As unlikely as it is I'd love for Schweinsteiger to come back into the fold if Fellaini has a serious injury.

Though am I right in thinking he's not named in the squad as of now?

jayo26

Liam O wrote: »

As unlikely as it is I'd love for Schweinsteiger to come back into the fold if Fellaini has a serious injury.

Though am I right in thinking he's not named in the squad as of now?

He won't. Jose even as much as said he would promote youth instead of him.

Chris_Bradley

Like old times yesterday...... I near swung from my sitting room lights when that late winner went in.

PhlegmyMoses

I'm trying to understand how massively different the two camps are when it comes to Rooney and how he is being perceived as having played. People are really entrenched in their opinions and when there is so much hyperbole on either side, there has to be a midpoint that is actually the truth.

Rooney was not class last night, nor was he completely ****e. He had some bad touches and was dispossessed easily at times, but also passed quite accurately and got on the ball well in good areas. When he drifts wide to offer an option, you can see how much game intelligence he has and it has yielded a couple of nice assists in recent games.

My only strong opinion when it comes to Rooney is that if you are the flagship player getting paid the flagship money, you better put in some flagship performances - otherwise we can just give that money to somebody else who will. He did it last night and won us the match at the end, so happy days. I'm just not convinced we'll see that week-in, week-out. If we do, again, happy days and he's earnt his crust.

To sum up, he's a united legend and he's affecting results positively at the moment, so he stays on the team. The minute that stops, he should be put under the spotlight. It comes with the territory when you are valued so highly in wages and what your perceived overall contribution should be.

LostBoy101

Lads I think Fosu-Mensah should be given the chance in Fellaini's absence. He has the build and would provide the cover that is needed.

PhlegmyMoses

And I agree with others who are criticising Martial. He hasn't looked at the races since early spring, imo, and his finishing is a weak point at the moment. He could be a bit jaded with playing so much football last year and maybe needs a rest.

astradave

astradave wrote: »

I didn't see that and can't find anything that says as much. have you got a link to that quote?

He said he didn't sub Fellaini to make sure the defence was tight until the very end, it was purely tactical but to imply that moirihnio pretty much confirmed his role in the squad is only for height is incorrect

adox

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

What about Daley?

Move him up and drop Mike in beside Bailly.

Yeah actually could be an option and a role that could probably do. His lack of pace wouldn't be an issue per say. Always said he reminded me of an old fashioned sweeper, or at least that looked his ideal position and maybe the Fellaini role will be as near as gig will get to a sweeper role in the modern game.

adox

LostBoy101 wrote: »

Lads I think Fosu-Mensah should be given the chance in Fellaini's absence. He has the build and would provide the cover that is needed.

Would be a huge gamble but he is probably the nearest to what we need that we have in the squad.

It's such a. Important role though, the way the team is set up that it would be a real role of the dice to throw him in there. Jose is more pragmatic than that IMO.
Certainly an option there for the future.

Liam O

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

And I agree with others who are criticising Martial. He hasn't looked at the races since early spring, imo, and his finishing is a weak point at the moment. He could be a bit jaded with playing so much football last year and maybe needs a rest.

I think it's more the team not being built around him this season. He had a free role last year and would get the ball on most attacks. He was losing the ball an awful lot but because he was getting it so much he would eventually do something special. He doesn't really get involved in the linking up of play as much as he has to and still tries to be Roy of the Rovers everytime. A change in his style of play is needed imo.

PhlegmyMoses

Hull were really excellent last night as well. Well organised, fighting and working for each other and showed great defensive discipline. I wouldn't have been angry had we only got a point last night, simply because I was so impressed with how well a ramshackle, championship-level teamsheet went about their business. Fair play Mike Phelan, you beautiful, shorts-wearing bastard.

adox

adox wrote: »

Yeah actually could be an option and a role that could probably do. His lack of pace wouldn't be an issue per say. Always said he reminded me of an old fashioned sweeper, or at least that looked his ideal position and maybe the Fellaini role will be as near as gig will get to a sweeper role in the modern game.

Ya i think his lack of pace would be a serious concern in fellinis position, its grand in defence as he has a Bally beside him, but as a DM more or less he would have to cover a lot of ground himself.

Maybe his intelligence could cover that up but Id have my doubts again a player Id see in midfield 3 at the base

The_Kew_Tour

See few photos of Fellaini helping a fan yesterday after the goal.

Can't link but not hard to find

Fair play him

RobertKK

Rashford aged 18 became the first teenager to score for a Jose Mourinho Premier League team.
Before yesterday the youngest were:
Robben aged 20.
Zouma aged 20.
Kalou aged 21.

jayo26

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

See few photos of Fellaini helping a fan yesterday after the goal.

Can't link but not hard to find

Fair play him

Nope just click back a few pages of the thread zerks

jayo26

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Hull were really excellent last night as well. Well organised, fighting and working for each other and showed great defensive discipline. I wouldn't have been angry had we only got a point last night, simply because I was so impressed with how well a ramshackle, championship-level teamsheet went about their business. Fair play Mike Phelan, you beautiful, shorts-wearing bastard.

Mike phelan is a boss

Pro. F

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

My only strong opinion when it comes to Rooney is that if you are the flagship player getting paid the flagship money, you better put in some flagship performances - otherwise we can just give that money to somebody else who will. He did it last night and won us the match at the end, so happy days. I'm just not convinced we'll see that week-in, week-out. If we do, again, happy days and he's earnt his crust.

To sum up, he's a united legend and he's affecting results positively at the moment, so he stays on the team. The minute that stops, he should be put under the spotlight. It comes with the territory when you are valued so highly in wages and what your perceived overall contribution should be.

If that's what comes with having a flagship player then we shouldn't have any flagship players imo.

I don't actually believe Rooney is a flagship player, nor that we have any flagship players by the definition you have given. If Rooney is such, then so are Ibra and Pogba and, so far this season, Rooney has been more consistently affecting results positively than either of them. They should both be under the spotlight by the logic you've put forward here. They aren't, because that logic is a bad way to build a team.

IamtheWalrus

jayo26 wrote: »

Mike phelan is a boss

Never tire of that

Pro. F

Blind would be a fine replacement for Fellaini defensively, but he's not good enough on the ball. He's very good on the ball for a CB, but weak for a CM.

jayo26

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Never tire of that

Same here it's fuken hilarious

Billy86

Pro. F wrote: »

If that's what comes with having a flagship player then we shouldn't have any flagship players imo.

I don't actually believe Rooney is a flagship player, nor that we have any flagship players by the definition you have given. If Rooney is such, then so are Ibra and Pogba and, so far this season, Rooney has been more consistently affecting results positively than either of them. They should both be under the spotlight by the logic you've put forward here. They aren't, because that logic is a bad way to build a team.

Pogba and Ibrahimovic haven't vmbww positively affecting results??

Liam O

Pro. F wrote: »

Blind would be a fine replacement for Fellaini defensively, but he's not good enough on the ball. He's very good on the ball for a CB, but weak for a CM.

Ah come on ffs.

Rayne Wooney

When you think about it, if we maintain this points per game we'll probably win the league

Robson99

Pro. F wrote: »

Blind would be a fine replacement for Fellaini defensively, but he's not good enough on the ball. He's very good on the ball for a CB, but weak for a CM.

He's a far better ball player than Fellani f.f.s

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

Blind would be a fine replacement for Fellaini defensively, but he's not good enough on the ball. He's very good on the ball for a CB, but weak for a CM.

What do you mean here? In terms of physicality and presence, in terms of passing ability?

He's clearly a much better distributor of the ball than Fellaini.

StringerBell

Fellaini has quicker footwork of the two, is good at receiving the ball in tight areas and controlling it better before moving on possession. I would assume that is what Pro.f is alluding too, apologies if I am mistaken.

Blind reads the game better and has a better range of passing, but in terms of close control etc I would also say he is inferior to Fellaini, I think for the short term it should not be a problem and he can use his ability to read the game to get into positions to still provide a good solid defensive base to allow Pogba the freedom to roam but not as good as Fellaini.

He is obviously also not as powerful or quick to react, but those will be offset somewhat by his reading and positional ability, much like Carrick for example.

Liam O

StringerBell wrote: »

Fellaini has quicker footwork of the two, is good at receiving the ball in tight areas and controlling it better before moving on possession. I would assume that is what Pro.f is alluding too, apologies if I am mistaken.

Blind reads the game better and has a better range of passing, but in terms of close control etc I would also say he is inferior to Fellaini, I think for the short term it should not be a problem and he can use his ability to read the game to get into positions to still provide a good solid defensive base to allow Pogba the freedom to roam but not as good as Fellaini.

He is obviously also not as powerful or quick to react, but those will be offset somewhat by his reading and positional ability, much like Carrick for example.

My issue with it isn't that he thinks Fellaini the is better on the ball of the 2 but to say Blind is weak on the ball for a CM is ridiculous imo.

Pro. F

Liam O wrote: »

Ah come on ffs.

Ah yeah, you're right. That was over the top and I didn't mean to be. I should have added "for the level we want to be at."

I know you still wouldn't agree with that btw.

Pro. F

Robson99 wrote: »

He's a far better ball player than Fellani f.f.s

Not at all. In terms of passing when he they have time, sure. But Fellaini is far better at the close control side of it, which is a lot more important.

Rayne Wooney

Pro. F wrote: »

Not at all. In terms of passing when he they have time, sure. But Fellaini is far better at the close control side of it, which is a lot more important.

Yep under pressure I'd much rather Fellaini

Blind is better in possession with space further up the pitch

Son Of A Vidic

LostBoy101 wrote: »

Lads I think Fosu-Mensah should be given the chance in Fellaini's absence. He has the build and would provide the cover that is needed.

I think he's the next young star in waiting and he has beast potential written all over him. I just hope he get's his chance and never looks back.

Billy86

A shining example of what is wrong with British football punditry. This guy isn't even starting, FFS!