Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

Cantona's Collars

Adamocovic wrote: »

Hard to know. Many sources claiming he will, and a lot of pundits online voicing their opinions he'll face retrospective action.

If so 3 match ban. To be fair, if he is banned he cant have many complaints and Guardiola himself said he didn't see the foul but if he is given a ban they will just accept it and move on.

The media are all over it,the FA will act now.

Cantona's Collars

Duncan Castles back with his "United news later" schtick. Probably to do with Rojo leaving.

Lord TSC

zerks wrote: »

Duncan Castles back with his "United news later" schtick. Probably to do with Rojo leaving.

Saying United are still hopeful of getting Fonte and Fabinho in, looking to move Rojo on and wouldn't stand in Darmian's way if he wanted to leave for garunteed starting time.

Jayop

Sky sports news are running the Aguero elbow on their cycle so the FA will have to do something. Either ban him or come up with an excuse for not doing so.

jayo26

I don't really care if he gets banned or not to be honest. What better test for city and United to play each other as strong as possible then we have no silly excuses

DuncanC has been wrong loads about united this summer, he got new respect for his inside info on jose all been lost since

Cantona's Collars

Deleted User wrote: »

Duncan Edwards has been wrong loads about united this summer, he got new respect for his inside info on jose all been lost since

Duncan Edwards died in the Munich Disaster. What papers do you read?

jayo26

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Duncan Edwards has been wrong loads about united this summer, he got new respect for his inside info on jose all been lost since

Poor Duncan is dead mean 60 years pal

Edit: Damn got beating to it be zerks of all people

zerks

zerks wrote: »

Duncan Edwards died in the Munich Disaster. What papers do you read?

Whoops obvious united freudian U~I feel a bit bad about that now

Cantona's Collars

Graham Poll on Aguero today:

“His fist was clenched to add power to the elbow and inflict damage and he should have been sent off for violent conduct.

“Andre Marriner failed to see the elbow despite his proximity and so the Football Association will be able to use video evidence and charge him.”

This City fan disagrees,it's a United/FA conspiracy.

https://twitter.com/cheadleblue16/status/769948558694965248

The **** is wrong with them. Vicious elbow, clear as day.
I actually wanted him to play because I didn't want anyone using some dopey excuse that we only beat them because Aguero wasn't playing or some nonsense like that.
Anyway rant over

International breaks :mad:

Jayop

Danny Murphy is some special ****ehawk. That intentional elbow in the neck should only be a yellow because it was done in frustration. How are morons like this stealing a living on TV?

VW 1

Don't think I saw it mentioned, but Rashford not included in the England squad when Walcott, Sturridge and Lallana are. Based on his end of season form and his cameos at the Euros I can't see how he is being left out.

Jayop

VW 1 wrote: »

Don't think I saw it mentioned, but Rashford not included in the England squad when Walcott, Sturridge and Lallana are. Based on his end of season form and his cameos at the Euros I can't see how he is being left out.

It's good that he is.

brinty

VW 1 wrote:

Don't think I saw it mentioned, but Rashford not included in the England squad when Walcott, Sturridge and Lallana are. Based on his end of season form and his cameos at the Euros I can't see how he is being left out.

I'd prefer he was
Fresher for Manchester derby rip the Citeh a new one

VW 1

Jayop wrote:

It's good that he is.

brinty wrote:

I'd prefer he was Fresher for Manchester derby rip the Citeh a new one

From a selfish united point of view, yes I agree I dont want to see him on international duty.

Surely an 18 year old that has done absolutely nothing wrong to be dropped by both club and country despite no drop in form, there has to be some knock on effect from a personal point of view.

He's been called up to the under 21's so he'll still be away on international duty.

jayo26

VW 1 wrote: »

From a selfish united point of view, yes I agree I dont want to see him on international duty.

Surely an 18 year old that has done absolutely nothing wrong to be dropped by both club and country despite no drop in form, there has to be some knock on effect from a personal point of view.

Not at all if he has been spoken to and understands that he is number two striker behind one of the best strikers in the world and he can learn from him it's all good.

Marcus is only 18 he is a member of our first team squad and is getting game time he has nothing to feel down about.

Billy86

VW 1 wrote: »

From a selfish united point of view, yes I agree I dont want to see him on international duty.

Surely an 18 year old that has done absolutely nothing wrong to be dropped by both club and country despite no drop in form, there has to be some knock on effect from a personal point of view.

Maybe, maybe not. Different sport but in the NFL there's a quarterback called Aaron Rodgers who is playing on a level maybe not even seen before ever. He was drafted in the first round by his team (equivalent of being a 30mn+ young signing I suppose - as a QB, it means the team is going to absolutely build itself around you). But he didn't start because the guy ahead of him was basically revered as a hero in the city (think Steven Gerrard in the city of Liverpool... and then maybe crank it up a few more notches again). That took three years.

He was supposed to be one of the first 2-3 guys taken in the whole draft but slipped down to #24, which was shocking. The team that got him sat him for so long because they already had a hall of fame player in the position - they just couldn't pass up on that much value.

Even getting into college (in American sports college systems are basically their youth teams) despite breaking a bunch of records when he was in high school, he was passed over for all but community colleges. You basically don't get to go to the NFL after community college, so he had to prove himself again just to get to a college where he could progress to the NFL.

The guy used all these negative setbacks as a chip on his shoulder to motivate him. The 'chip' isn't a bad one as he is a model pro and gets on extremely well with his teammates (as a QB you're essentially a player/captain/ass't coach all in one), but it makes him work as hard as anyone out there and despite the fact he looks very chilled out on the sideline he becomes almost robotically focused when he's on the field. And as a result, he got better and better and has now for the last 5 years (barring last year, when he was still class) been playing at a level at least as good, if not better, than anyone in the history of the position.

Hopefully Rashford uses this for similar motivation; if I remember right Lampard actually was in a very similar position at the start of Jose's first Chelsea tenure. And for me, Lampard is THE #1 example that should be given to young kids of how to work your ass off, be a pro, and reach all of your potential. There are very few athletes, never even mind footballers (though Keane is one!) that I respect as much as Lampard for getting every little last ounce of what they could out of themselves in their career. With his potential, if Jose can do the same with Rashford... who knows. We could even be looking at a future Ballon d'Or winner. I shouldn't get too far ahead like that granted, but it's a seriously exciting prospect!

Trigger

VW 1 wrote: »

From a selfish united point of view, yes I agree I dont want to see him on international duty.

Surely an 18 year old that has done absolutely nothing wrong to be dropped by both club and country despite no drop in form, there has to be some knock on effect from a personal point of view.

I suppose when 2 new managers come in everyone starts from scratch in their eyes. He will have to win them over. I can see Big Sam preferring more proven players for the first few matches anyways. If he doesn't etc off to a good start the media will be on his back no doubt.

VW 1

Not much to add to the above other than I hope Rashford has a similar attitude to succeeding.

Also, if you haven't listened to the graham hunter podcast with harry redknapp he does an excellent segment on his selection of frank initially at club level, combined with why he thought he would succeed and his attitude in that period

EDIT: also, excellent analogy to the NFL but things are obviously different as its as easy to transfer, not as common that there is a 2-3 year accepted bedding in period etc nor is therr a happiness to pick up a cheque while being able to play for a first team in the top division








To play devils advocate, he is behind Walcott at international level, not a world class striker. He is ahead of at least 3 or 4 attacking players in the England my opinion.

If he is behind Ibra at club level and that is explained to him, fair enough, he will get plenty of games over the course of the season. Patience is needed and I fully expect he will be first choice at the end of the season.

TheDoc

Having watched all the City games this season along with our own. Confident of a result. Feel the Pep factor being blown up a little. Nice passages of play against rubbish opposition.

Defensively looking a bit ropey also.

I'm not.buying for a second their the best squad in the league either, keep hearing that.

Rayne Wooney

Mikki's cameo in the centre of the pitch seemed to be a bit of a revelation of what the player in that position should be doing. Driving forward with the ball with clever passes when defenders get pulled out of position.

Shanotheslayer

TheDoc wrote: »

Nice passages of play against rubbish opposition.

United or City?

Jayop

If Rashford went with the senior squad he'd be lucky to get a few minutes off the bench. With the u21 I'd expect him to start. Better for his development I reckon.

Insect Overlord

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Mikki's cameo in the centre of the pitch seemed to be a bit of a revelation of what the player in that position should be doing. Driving forward with the ball with clever passes when defenders get pulled out of position.

I remember seeing videos of Anderson, years ago, from before he broke his leg and before moving to United. There were several great examples of similar bursting runs. Oh, what could have been!

wadacrack

Eric Bailly has been sensational so far. Strikers nightmare I would think

beno619

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Hate the international break. Would love 3 points against City. Draw should be minimum requirement.

On holidays for two weeks tomorrow so it's fallen wonderfully for me

aperture_nuig

wadacrack wrote: »

Eric Bailly has been sensational so far. Strikers nightmare I would think

He has. Would love to see him against Costa just to see who would win that dust up

Lord TSC

TheDoc wrote: »

Having watched all the City games this season along with our own. Confident of a result. Feel the Pep factor being blown up a little. Nice passages of play against rubbish opposition.

Defensively looking a bit ropey also.

I'm not.buying for a second their the best squad in the league either, keep hearing that.

Am really looking forward to the match. We've not been massively tested ourselves yet either so I'm looking forward to seeing how we do against a more attack-minded team. Valencia, Blind and Bailly will get a proper test, but our front line should find they have more space to work as well.

jayo26

Important thing is to get our players back from injuries to continue the consistency in the line up and also a few injuries set in and Jose's 23 man squad would look small.

Pro. F

I love the way the criticism of Rooney at #10 has changed from "doesn't pass incisively enough for a #10" after the Bournmouth game to now "doesn't dribble enough for a #10." With nary a positive word about his recent incisive passing too.

MagicIRL

My feeling with Rooney is that, currently, as a #10 everything positive he does would be replicated by any other #10 (Mata, Mickey) with fewer negatives.

That's all I have to say on the matter.

Cantona's Collars

Pro. F wrote: »

I love the way the criticism of Rooney at #10 has changed from "doesn't pass incisively enough for a #10" after the Bournmouth game to now "doesn't dribble enough for a #10." With nary a positive word about his recent incisive passing too.

He doesn't do either very much these days.I'm not getting into another argument over him so I'll leave it at that.

Had a minor panic attack earlier when I thought the Derby was on a Sunday,playing golf that morning.Massive relief when I checked the fixture date and saw it's on a Saturday.I don't care about excuses if Aguero is banned,just beat them and take the 3 points to go top of the table.

Giggsy11

City vs west ham thread is funny. City fan brought Rashford name out of nowhere and then started crying in their thread about the hatred. Those 2 or 3 city fans are funny. Also worth the laugh.

sReq | uTeK

Pro. F wrote: »

I love the way the criticism of Rooney at #10 has changed from "doesn't pass incisively enough for a #10" after the Bournmouth game to now "doesn't dribble enough for a #10." With nary a positive word about his recent incisive passing too.

I think at this stage its more people arguing with you and your opinions more so than Rooney, people would be quite happy to say he had a decent game yesterday, which I believe he did. But when you come on touting how "amazing" he was it probably got people's backs up.

Personally I believe Rooney has contributed enough to warrant his place in the team. With that said I'd love to see Miki given an extended run in the number 10. I feel that we have better options than Rooney and the negatives those players bring are far less than those of Rooney.

PhlegmyMoses

Pro. F wrote: »

I love the way the criticism of Rooney at #10 has changed from "doesn't pass incisively enough for a #10" after the Bournmouth game to now "doesn't dribble enough for a #10." With nary a positive word about his recent incisive passing too.

To be fair, it's possible that the guy who talks about his dribbling never said a word about his passing before. The people in this thread aren't a homogeneous hive mind, but are a group of individuals with their own opinions.

I happen to agree to an extent, especially in games where teams are parking the bus. You need midfielders or a 10 who will commit their players into tackles and force them to break out from their 10 behind the ball positions. That being said, a 20 minute cameo from Mkhitaryan against a tired Hull midfield is hardly evidence that he's the man for the job.

The weird thing is, driving at players used to be Rooney's forte. I feel like he almost bought into the "I'm the type of player that will slow down and move backwards so I need to use the ball more wisely" way too early and way too much. He is still fast and strong when he decides to go for it, evidenced by what he did in the lead up to the assist on Saturday and even more so by his run in the cup final.

sReq | uTeK

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

To be fair, it's possible that the guy who talks about his dribbling never said a word about his passing before. The people in this thread aren't a homogeneous hive mind, but are a group of individuals with their own opinions.

I happen to agree to an extent, especially in games where teams are parking the bus. You need midfielders or a 10 who will commit their players into tackles and force them to break out from their 10 behind the ball positions. That being said, a 20 minute cameo from Mkhitaryan against a tired Hull midfield is hardly evidence that he's the man for the job.

The weird thing is, driving at players used to be Rooney's forte. I feel like he almost bought into the "I'm the type of player that will slow down and move backwards so I need to use the ball more wisely" way too early and way too much. He is still fast and strong when he decides to go for it, evidenced by what he did in the lead up to the assist on Saturday and even more so by his run in the cup final.

And just to add he did both of these in the later stages of a game when everyone else is tanked. I don't know if its something he's being coached on but I agree with you I'd like to see him do it more often.

PhlegmyMoses

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

And just to add he did both of these in the later stages of a game when everyone else is tanked. I don't know if its something he's being coached on but I agree with you I'd like to see him do it more often.

I'm actually quite hopeful that he is rediscovering some of his forgotten talents. There were times under LVG when you'd have 10 behind the ball and you'd be willing Rooney to get the head down and bulldoze a path or smack a thunderbastard towards the top corner, just to keep the bus parkers honest. Instead, he was doing what he was told and laying off hoping to find a better opening for a pass, which never came.

He is slowly winning me back over, and if he keeps doing things like what he did on Saturday, he'll gain huge confidence from it and hopefully go on a run.

jayo26

Giggsy11 wrote: »

City vs west ham thread is funny. City fan brought Rashford name out of nowhere and then started crying in their thread about the hatred. Those 2 or 3 city fans are funny. Also worth the laugh.

Easy to narrow it down there is only 2 or 3 city fans on here.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

I love the way the criticism of Rooney at #10 has changed from "doesn't pass incisively enough for a #10" after the Bournmouth game to now "doesn't dribble enough for a #10." With nary a positive word about his recent incisive passing too.

Man I don't see what the issue is. I get you are trying to maybe balance the extremes that are being pointed at Rooney.

But there is really just no excuse. This is one of the best paid players in the world. Everyone in the media would have you believe he is world class.

He is not and has not being delivering ANYTHING CLOSE to what he should be, and his place is rightly under threat.

Nalz

Jayop wrote: »

Danny Murphy is some special ****ehawk. That intentional elbow in the neck should only be a yellow because it was done in frustration. How are morons like this stealing a living on TV?

wow, just wow.

TheDoc wrote: »

Man I don't see what the issue is. I get you are trying to maybe balance the extremes that are being pointed at Rooney.

But there is really just no excuse. This is one of the best paid players in the world. Everyone in the media would have you believe he is world class.

He is not and has not being delivering ANYTHING CLOSE to what he should be, and his place is rightly under threat.

Hear hear. I thought Rooney did very well vs Hull, not by his standards though. Every day a 7 or 7.5/10 performance. I've seen people call him class because of various things he did well like his work rate, doing the simple things etc etc. It's not enough and hasn't been for a while.

Pro. F

zerks wrote: »

He doesn't do either very much these days.I'm not getting into another argument over him so I'll leave it at that.

He has done plenty of incisive passing in the last two games. And the lack of dribbling criticism is a new one since those two games happened. The idea that a #10 has to be the type of player to drive the ball past opponents with dribbling is wrong too. It's not like Sheringham or Yorke in their prime wouldn't be good enough for a PL contender at #10 these days and neither of them were that type of player. Mata is a class #10 too and he also isn't that type of player.

Kirby

There are plenty of 10's who are that type of player though...and who can take the ball and drive at the opposition to create openings. Mhikitaryan is one such player. Thats the point being made. There are alternatives to Rooney in that position that can do what he does....and also more.

Pro. F

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

To be fair, it's possible that the guy who talks about his dribbling never said a word about his passing before. The people in this thread aren't a homogeneous hive mind, but are a group of individuals with their own opinions.

No, Zerks was criticising Rooney for his passing after the Bournmouth game.

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I happen to agree to an extent, especially in games where teams are parking the bus. You need midfielders or a 10 who will commit their players into tackles and force them to break out from their 10 behind the ball positions. That being said, a 20 minute cameo from Mkhitaryan against a tired Hull midfield is hardly evidence that he's the man for the job.

The weird thing is, driving at players used to be Rooney's forte. I feel like he almost bought into the "I'm the type of player that will slow down and move backwards so I need to use the ball more wisely" way too early and way too much. He is still fast and strong when he decides to go for it, evidenced by what he did in the lead up to the assist on Saturday and even more so by his run in the cup final.

I agree we need more dribblers (and pace) in the team. I just disagree with the idea that that has to be at #10, rather than on the wing or at CF. Like based on the performances so far this season, Rooney's place should be no more under threat from Mkhitaryan than Ibra's should be from Rashford.

Pro. F

Kirby wrote: »

There are plenty of 10's who are that type of player though...and who can take the ball and drive at the opposition to create openings. Mhikitaryan is one such player. Thats the point being made. There are alternatives to Rooney in that position that can do what he does....and also more.

Mkhitaryan isn't as good at sniffing out chances in the box as Rooney. Nor does he work as hard as Rooney. Mkhitaryan is a top quality player, but he does not offer everything Rooney does.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

But there is really just no excuse. This is one of the best paid players in the world. Everyone in the media would have you believe he is world class.

I don't care about either of those points. All I care about is how United can play their best in order to win things.

TheDoc wrote: »

He is not and has not being delivering ANYTHING CLOSE to what he should be, and his place is rightly under threat.

Himself and Ibra have been our two best attacking players so far. It is ridiculous to be talking of dropping Rooney when he's just had such a good game. Drop Martial and/or Mata, by all means.

deaddonkey15

TheDoc wrote: »

Man I don't see what the issue is. I get you are trying to maybe balance the extremes that are being pointed at Rooney.

But there is really just no excuse. This is one of the best paid players in the world. Everyone in the media would have you believe he is world class.

He is not and has not being delivering ANYTHING CLOSE to what he should be, and his place is rightly under threat.

As a captain and forward he's delivered either a goal or assist in every league game this season (the only player in the squad to do so) which has helped us to 3 wins and joint top of the table. He also created the goal that won us the FA cup back in May out of nothing. He was the only player busting his boll*cks to get back and clear a ball off the line in the cup semi final against Everton. He got a goal and 2 assists in the last league game against Bournemouth last season to keep our slim chances of top 4 alive. So in actual fact, in United's recent competitive games he's been delivering QUITE CLOSE to what he should be, and arguably more than any other United player.

Edit: He also assisted Mata's winner against Norwich the week before the Bournemouth game to keep the pressure on City. Name for me one United player that has played a bigger role in United's recent competitive wins.

PhlegmyMoses

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

To be fair, it's possible that the guy who talks about his dribbling never said a word about his passing before. The people in this thread aren't a homogeneous hive mind, but are a group of individuals with their own opinions.

I happen to agree to an extent, especially in games where teams are parking the bus. You need midfielders or a 10 who will commit their players into tackles and force them to break out from their 10 behind the ball positions. That being said, a 20 minute cameo from Mkhitaryan against a tired Hull midfield is hardly evidence that he's the man for the job.

The weird thing is, driving at players used to be Rooney's forte. I feel like he almost bought into the "I'm the type of player that will slow down and move backwards so I need to use the ball more wisely" way too early and way too much. He is still fast and strong when he decides to go for it, evidenced by what he did in the lead up to the assist on Saturday and even more so by his run in the cup final.

I still believe he has pace but seems to be using it sparingly.
It was only last season if I can remember back when we actually scored from a counter-attacked and he ran the guts of 40+ yards with a great burst of pace.
Can't remember off the top of my head what match. Anyone help me out?