Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

brinty

Polo_Mint wrote: »

This thread has gone too Analytical for me

Im like..........

welcome to the world according to Pro F

Generally he has some good and different points to most posters but he can keep going back and forth with posters rather than say agree to disagree..

but fair play to him he never goes into the whole well the stats say x and y which some posters engage in... Stats are grand for static stop start games like baseball and american football but not soccer

Mitch Connor

In an ideal world, for me, United would go out and get a top right winger - which would allow us to play Mkhitaryan centrally (with an on form Martial out left) and Rooney on the bench.

I wouldn't drop Rooney right now, because he is no worse than Mata at the moment so Mkhitaryan in for Mata is fine.

Our lack of a genuine right winger annoys me.

brinty

zerks wrote: »

Ravel Morrison's time in Italy is up and he is looking for a club in England.A waste of serious talent.Fergie had him tipped for the absolute top if he only had his head screwed on,alas the passing of time hasn't seen that happen.

Maybe Jose would take a punt on him!!!!

Adamocovic

brinty wrote: »

welcome to the world according to Pro F

Generally he has some good and different points to most posters but he can keep going back and forth with posters rather than say agree to disagree..

but fair play to him he never goes into the whole well the stats say x and y which some posters engage in... Stats are grand for static stop start games like baseball and american football but not soccer

Don't talk bad about stats

Pro. F

brinty wrote: »

welcome to the world according to Pro F

Would you ever stfu with this shít. There's loads of people talking about Rooney and Mkhitaryan and who should play where and why.

deaddonkey15

Mitch Connor wrote: »

In an ideal world, for me, United would go out and get a top right winger - which would allow us to play Mkhitaryan centrally (with an on form Martial out left) and Rooney on the bench.

I wouldn't drop Rooney right now, because he is no worse than Mata at the moment so Mkhitaryan in for Mata is fine.

Our lack of a genuine right winger annoys me.

He is better than Mata at the moment.

Billy86

Adamocovic wrote: »

Don't talk bad about stats

YOu can use stats to prove anything, 85% of all people know that.

Mitch Connor

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

He is better than Mata at the moment.

I will reply in kind:

No he is not.

deaddonkey15

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I will reply in kind:

No he is not.

Rooney - A goal and 2 assists, 1 of which got us 3 points instead of 1 last weekend.

Mata - A fortuitous goal on the opening day.

Hey, you're right.

jayo26

At the end of the season only stat that matters is points and right now we are spot on.

Last year we were top in December I think it was but the manager did not have the desire or the knowledge to make the right decisions to keep us there I have total faith that jose does and if it comes to making a big decision for the better of the team I'd have total confidence in him.

Billy86

zerks wrote: »

Ravel Morrison's time in Italy is up and he is looking for a club in England.A waste of serious talent.Fergie had him tipped for the absolute top if he only had his head screwed on,alas the passing of time hasn't seen that happen.

Sure a few days before we finalised Pogba, Rio was on what looked like a local London show talking about how Morrison was noticeably more talented when they were 16-17. I think Pogba himself might have said similar at the time, too?

Such a shame, imagine we could have been building around Pogba and an even more talented player of the same age, with the likes of Shaw, Rashford, Martial etc making us not only a ridiculous team but quite potentially one of the most athletic/dynamic ever.

Oh well, onto the next one. I learned my lesson on getting excited over youth players way, way back with Rossi and David Jones - still wonder what he could have been if he stayed in Holland or maybe tried Italy.

Polo_Mint

I'm happy with the consistency of the Starting 11.

I would like to see maybe Martial dropped for a game and maybe give both Depay and Young a 45min run out.

Maybe not for the City game but I would like to see how they perform

Mitch Connor

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Rooney - A goal and 2 assists, 1 of which got us 3 points instead of 1 last weekend.

Mata - A fortuitous goal on the opening day.

Hey, you're right.

Well Martial has two assists so he must be playing pretty well, right? No, he has been sh1t. One lucky pass or lucky goal doesn't mean there general performance in the match was good. Giggs had a number of seasons where he was generally poor but got goals and assists which masked it for the 'stats are the be all and end all' people - like yourself.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

Prof F response

Just cutting down to not have monster quote tennis, but I get what your saying.

I'll only say that I'm not directly linking, or expecting, goals+assists as a tangible return for wages.

It's everything else. I'm expecting general play to be good for that sort of money. This isn't just general inflation of wages, Rooney received one of the biggest contracts in world football and I don't feel his performances are justifying it.

And obviously the club are in the same mindset, with the reports he's being told to earn a new contract when his agent seemingly went sounding them out.

I think the players you listed, their general input to their teams would be acceptable, and last season I would have rated them all higher then Rooney. Bar Vardy actually. I know that sounds weird, but I'm a bit unconvinced about what he does outside of just scoring. But then when you are bagging 20+, that is essentially perfectly good return.

Don't take me literally as big money = Goals + assists. That's not the point I'm conveying, and if that's what people are taking I'm obviously not constructing the posts correctly.

With Rooney I don't believe his general play and contribution was good enough last season, and there is some signs of that sluggishness and sloppiness carrying over. Again, it's getting better game for game. But I'd want and expect that to continue.

I'm looking at the passages of play in general, like I'm sure you do also. There won't be stats to properly record or even indicate his influences in the general play, but again, we can probably both see that watching.

I feel too many times the play breaks down with him, or slows down with him. It definitely is improving game by game, still some of the sloppyness there though. And while every player is going to lose possession, Rooney's instances are exasperated because it "feels" like a play that could amount to something, or starts a counter attack against us.


Main point from this post, I'm not saying wages = goals + assists to make me happy. And it's not the point I'm trying to convey.

Trond

Im in two minds on whether he should start Rashford instead of Martial or continue to use him as an impact player.

Theres positives two both scenarios. Him cutting in against Zabaleta for 90mins with that pace. Equally as a sub his pace against an already slowish City defence could cause them serious problems.

deaddonkey15

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Well Martial has two assists so he must be playing pretty well, right? No, he has been sh1t. One lucky pass or lucky goal doesn't mean there general performance in the match was good. Giggs had a number of seasons where he was generally poor but got goals and assists which masked it for the 'stats are the be all and end all' people - like yourself.

We're talking about Mata.

Goals and assists aren't simply stats. They are what win games.

Cantona's Collars

Here's a thought,we still hear Viva Ronaldo and Cantona songs sung at games.In the future when Rooney is gone,will we here his name being sung? I doubt it.For all his time here,he's never really been seen as "a United man".
Maybe like any club,the fans take to certain players but not really to others no matter how well they did over their time at said club.

deaddonkey15

zerks wrote: »

Here's a thought,we still hear Viva Ronaldo and Cantona songs sung at games.In the future when Rooney is gone,will we here his name being sung? I doubt it.For all his time here,he's never really been seen as "a United man".
Maybe like any club,the fans take to certain players but not really to others no matter how well they did over their time at said club.

That would be a shame, since he'll likely retire as the club's record goalscorer.

zerks

zerks wrote: »

Here's a thought,we still hear Viva Ronaldo and Cantona songs sung at games.In the future when Rooney is gone,will we here his name being sung? I doubt it.For all his time here,he's never really been seen as "a United man".
Maybe like any club,the fans take to certain players but not really to others no matter how well they did over their time at said club.

Sorry man but I have to disagree with this
The chants of "Rooney, Rooney Rooney!" still happen nearly every match
Hard call it until he does retire!

Jayop

That's what I'd go with Vs City. That's making the assumption that Fellaini is out injured and that Jose will want to play Blind in DM ahead of Carrick or Morgan given neither of them have had any or little game time. Rashford out right to stretch them and use his pace to get at the slow City defense. Rooney on the left to replace Martial who's been our worst performer by a mile this season and Rooney can play there easily enough, Mkhitaryan in behind Zlatan.

Mata and Martial lose out. It's harsh on Mata but I think if you take out Martial then you need to put more pace in somewhere else.

Lord TSC

Mitch Connor wrote: »

In an ideal world, for me, United would go out and get a top right winger - which would allow us to play Mkhitaryan centrally (with an on form Martial out left) and Rooney on the bench.

I wouldn't drop Rooney right now, because he is no worse than Mata at the moment so Mkhitaryan in for Mata is fine.

Our lack of a genuine right winger annoys me.

I kind of wonder if we should be giving Valencia a stab there, especially if talks of Fabinho are true. Valencia has had a good start to the season. Not spectacular, but he's been looking worthy of his place in the starting eleven so far. My main fear would be he's not been tested defensively, and I don't trust him defensively. But creatively, he looks to have taken a step forward since Jose came in.

Don't get me wrong, I think a top RW will be a priority soon, and I think Mkhitaryan can fill the space brilliantly until the #10 position opens up.

Ideally, right now, I'd like to see (with what we have)...

Rashford
Martial - Ibra - Mkhitaryan

...as our front four, but also wonder if we could try something like...

Ibra
Mkhitaryan - Rooney - Valencia

....in the City game, letting Val have extra defensive coverage on the RW, while getting Mkhitaryan into the team, and dropping Martial who hasn't looked great, yet still forcing Rooney in there.

Lord TSC

Jayop wrote: »

Rooney on the left to replace Martial who's been our worst performer by a mile this season and Rooney can play there easily enough, Mkhitaryan in behind Zlatan.
.

I really wish we could get over this sensation of forcing Rooney into unfamiliar positions just to get him onto the team.

Lord TSC

(At the risk of a triple post...)

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNewsHQ/status/770261660577726464

BREAKING: @aguerosergiokun out of Argentina's squad for @FIFAWorldCup qualifiers with calf injury. #SSNHQ

Might not need that ban after all.

Jayop

Lord TSC wrote: »

I really wish we could get over this sensation of forcing Rooney into unfamiliar positions just to get him onto the team.

It's hardly unfamiliar. He played there loads under fergie when Ronaldo was at the club. He played there on Saturday after the subs and looked better when shifted out wide.

Cantona's Collars

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Sorry man but I have to disagree with this
The chants of "Rooney, Rooney Rooney!" still happen nearly every match
Hard call it until he does retire!

That's what I said in my post,when he is gone will he still get the adulation ala Cantona and Ronaldo?
He'll probably leave as the clubs top scorer but won't be fondly remembered.Just from being at games it's the vibe I get from the regular match goers.

Nalz

It's been 3 games also so probably should give Martial a break. He's shown as recently as last season what he can do for us.


If someone had to come out of the side it most likely would be him or Mata, but other than forced changes (i.e. Fellaini) do we need to make changes?

Cantona's Collars

Jayop wrote: »

It's hardly unfamiliar. He played there loads under fergie when Ronaldo was at the club. He played there on Saturday after the subs and looked better when shifted out wide.

He moaned about that,last season he said he wanted to be the main striker and moaned when played there.Fitting him into the team is an ever increasing problem and is detrimental to younger,hungrier players.

Jayop

Nalz wrote: »

It's been 3 games also so probably should give Martial a break. He's shown as recently as last season what he can do for us.


If someone had to come out of the side it most likely would be him or Mata, but other than forced changes (i.e. Fellaini) do we need to make changes?

If Fellaini is out then he can leave the defense as is and bring in Morgan or Carrick to play that role. Morgan would be the most likely swap. However as I said I can see him going for Blind in for Fellaini given he's been in the side and playing well and then we can put Smalling back in at CB.

As for Martial, sadly if we pull him out we don't have anyone with genuine pace for the left wing spot that's likely to play. That means Mata will lose his spot too.

TheDoc

For the derby I think we will see this



While I'd like Rashford in on the left, can imagine Young will get the nod for a bit of defensive solidity just incase, with Rashford being introduced later. In saying that, that's me reading Mourinho. It is at home, so maybe he will go balls out and play Rashford.

Can't see Martial not having a little spell on the bench. To be honest, he could actually just remove Martial for Mhyk and play Mata from the left. Considering the way the front four change it up, might be plausible and not much of a big deal. I'm led to believe Myhk does good defensive shifts/work.

Don't see Smalling being introduced here. Defence looks solid and settled, and with Aguero likely out, City will be relying on that movement of Sterling, Nolito, Silva and De Bruyne. Feel like Blind is best equipped to deal with this from a CB point of view, and think Schneiderlan also.

Obviously early days and no real sign of Schneiderlan yet, but just got this feeling he is going to be a big part of any success we have this season.

Nalz

Stolen from the humour thread, thought you guys might get a laugh from it.

https://twitter.com/paddypower/status/770267192860418049

Lord TSC

Jayop wrote: »

It's hardly unfamiliar. He played there loads under fergie when Ronaldo was at the club. He played there on Saturday after the subs and looked better when shifted out wide.

It could be argued he looked more effective later in the game because Hull retreated completely into their box and gave everyone a tonne of space.

For me, the frustration stems from the fact that every few months, the argument becomes "Oh, let's try him in a different position"; striker - #10 - midfielder - back to striker - back to #10 - now how bout the right wing? Shuffling him round the field because he can't nail down the spot he's in is only prolonging the issue. At the rate we're going, he'll get a stab at the goalkeeper's position soon...

Adamocovic

Nalz wrote: »

Stolen from the humour thread, thought you guys might get a laugh from it.

https://twitter.com/paddypower/status/770267192860418049

I love PaddyPowers fan denial videos and even though this weeks is about United fans it has to be one of the funniest yet :pac:

Jayop

zerks wrote: »

He moaned about that,last season he said he wanted to be the main striker and moaned when played there.Fitting him into the team is an ever increasing problem and is detrimental to younger,hungrier players.

It's really not. He's a top experienced pro player and there's literally no way barring injury that he's not going to be playing in the City game.

Where did he moan about playing wide? He probably more than any other forward I can remember has been moved and pulled all over the pitch by all his managers. For someone who's such a moaner he seems to still be able to put a shift in regardless of where he's played.

Trond

Lord TSC wrote: »

(At the risk of a triple post...)

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNewsHQ/status/770261660577726464

BREAKING: @aguerosergiokun out of Argentina's squad for @FIFAWorldCup qualifiers with calf injury. #SSNHQ

Might not need that ban after all.

Sounds like one of those international week "injuries".

Cantona's Collars

Jayop wrote: »

It's really not. He's a top experienced pro player and there's literally no way barring injury that he's not going to be playing in the City game.

Where did he moan about playing wide? He probably more than any other forward I can remember has been moved and pulled all over the pitch by all his managers. For someone who's such a moaner he seems to still be able to put a shift in regardless of where he's played.

Who brought up the whole "I'm played out of position here,I want to go to City" stuff when he was edging for a move? Yup,our man Wayne.
Putting in a shift and doing it well are too different things,I work with people who put in a shift,doing it well is another matter.

v3ttel

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Why is everyone so keen to see Rooney dropped in favour of Mkhitaryan? Surely the obvious change would be to drop Mata who offers little and is not a right winger, and instead play Mkhitaryan who actually is a right winger?

I would guess that if Rooney was to be dropped, most people would like to see Mata as the #10. Mkhitaryan at RW.

I still don't believe Mata works well on the right, even though he is a lot more effective from there now that we've got some form of attacking gameplan. At the moment, I'd keep Rooney in the team seeing as he is contributing goals/assists.

Jayop

zerks wrote: »

Who brought up the whole "I'm played out of position here,I want to go to City" stuff when he was edging for a move? Yup,our man Wayne.
Putting in a shift and doing it well are too different things,I work with people who put in a shift,doing it well is another matter.

Where did he say that? Lot's of stuff he apparently said is repeated over and over as fact despite most of it in my opinion being utter rubbish.

Your opinion that he's played badly is purely subjective. I think he's played well enough by and large to justify holding his place and the fact that he's also contributed two assists and a goal in three games helps.

Bradz213

v3ttel wrote: »

I would guess that if Rooney was to be dropped, most people would like to see Mata as the #10. Mkhitaryan at RW.

I still don't believe Mata works well on the right, even though he is a lot more effective from there now that we've got some form of attacking gameplan. At the moment, I'd keep Rooney in the team seeing as he is contributing goals/assists.

Either or. I think Mata is more effective on the right, he pulls the full back out of position and when you play a wing-back like Valencia, it wreaks havoc. The problem is he and Rooney occupy the same space, both slow down play alot and there is only Room for one in the team. My choice is Mata

v3ttel

Bradz213 wrote: »

Either or. I think Mata is more effective on the right, he pulls the full back out of position and when you play a wing-back like Valencia, it wreaks havoc. The problem is he and Rooney occupy the same space, both slow down play alot and there is only Room for one in the team. My choice is Mata

I wouldn't say it wreaks havoc, I would say it congests the middle, which gives Pogba, Rooney and Ibra less space.

Full backs generally don't roam in field to follow Mata, but he doesn't find too many pockets of space regardless because the opposite midfield drops back to crowd the space.

Basically, I prefer wide players to attack with pace, power and the ability to commit defenders, especially so when teams are ultra defensive.

When Mata is wide, it's predictable. He will either look for Valencia on the overlap, or play in-field. When he is in-field, he crowds the space. This isn't anything against Mata, he's a fantastic player, but I would like different things from a wide player than he provides. He is a better fit for #10 in how I'd like a team to play.

jayo26

That video could be clips from any united or pool match thread on here. Brilliant tho.

Trond

Trond wrote: »

Sounds like one of those international week "injuries".

I think its called pulling a Ryan Giggs in football circles

paulbok

zerks wrote: »

That's what I said in my post,when he is gone will he still get the adulation ala Cantona and Ronaldo?
He'll probably leave as the clubs top scorer but won't be fondly remembered.Just from being at games it's the vibe I get from the regular match goers.

I agree with your point of Rooney, but the future singing of his name may have more to do with the lack of a decent song/chant for him.
Easy to belt out the catchy sings (oh ah, oh ah, ohah Cantona, rather than plain Rooney, Rooney).
Having said that, you would think the song makers would have come up with something for him in 12/13 years if they were fond of him. I always envisaged the Kaiser Chiefs Ruby, Ruby Ruby, line being adapted for him.

Jayop

paulbok wrote: »

I agree with your point of Rooney, but the future singing of his name may have more to do with the lack of a decent song/chant for him.
Easy to belt out the catchy sings (oh ah, oh ah, ohah Cantona, rather than plain Rooney, Rooney).
Having said that, you would think the song makers would have come up with something for him in 12/13 years if they were fond of him. I always envisaged the Kaiser Chiefs Ruby, Ruby Ruby, line being adapted for him.

I think it was for a while, but the White Pele song won over.

Will Keane to sign for Hull

RasTa

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Will Keane to sign for Hull

£1m too, United are like Dealz.

Rossi IRL

RasTa wrote: »

£1m too, United are like Dealz.

Surprised he didnt go on a free.

Flint Fredstone

Ha. Didn't think Pogba would be reading the Man United Facebook account :pac:

https://twitter.com/paulpogba/status/769633962968936454

MuPpItJoCkEy

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Features/2016/Aug/Video-10-angles-of-Marcus-Rashford-goal-for-Manchester-United-v-Hull-City.aspx

Don't know if this was posted already and it wasn't exactly a spectacular goal to be watching 10 times from different angles but check out Mourihno when the goal was scored.

Sherfin

Love Baillys celebration.
Evraesque

https://twitter.com/samuelluckhurst/status/769867863117168641?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

jayo26

I'm surprised the media haven't been all over that incident of the crowd falling threw the advertising boarding it could of been alot more serious it's first time I seen it from that angle.

Hate the fact that Rashford got booked for that too they really do want robots playing football.