Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

Tom.D.BJJ

First half cost us. Herrera was massive when he came on. I think the team will learn alot from that performance and will be better because of it.

Lord TSC

God, first off....that second half was brilliant football. Real end to end stuff, real slogging each other with constant attacks.

City won it in the first 30 minutes. I felt we played much better after that, but by then, they were able to park the bus, and it's going to be hard to put 2 or 3 pasts a Pep team this season.

Lingard and Mkhitaryan were brutal in the first half, and well deserved to be taken off. The Rooney debate will rage. Personally, I didn't think he was that bad. He gave the ball away too often, but he contributed more than his usual game. Now, all being relative, he's still not putting in the performances we need from our #10 if we want to be a European powerhouse. But there were still performances worst that his today.

Herrera did well I felt. Valencia and Fellaini, while not top class, continue to be significantly better than they have been for two years.

I don't feel gutted by the loss; we played with passion and intensity in the second half, and I'll take that for now.

Sand

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

To be honest I reckon it's not a bad yellow to pick up. Bravo looks like a rabbit in headlights all day, no harm rough him up a bit for the inevitable aerial onslaught late in the game.

Look, its fine to defend him from OTT criticism. I get that. Just don't go nuts.

edgecutter

4-2-3-1 cost us in the first half allowing De Brunye to control all of city's attacks. We improved in the second when we added an extra man in midfield, but that has to mean Rooney to the bench and allowing natural wingers to play on the wing.

Kerrydude1981

City probably deserve it for the first half performance

Think Utd have to start on the front foot ,seemed to drop off them in the first half and that just helped City settle and they dominated the play,

Has to be best game ive seen between a Jose side and Pep side,no nonsense like that used be going on in the El Classico's

Valencia outstanding again,was really tested in the first half but he stuck at it,

Ander was great when he came on,brought much needed life and legs to that midfield,

adox

Lord TSC wrote: »

God, first off....that second half was brilliant football. Real end to end stuff, real slogging each other with constant attacks.

City won it in the first 30 minutes. I felt we played much better after that, but by then, they were able to park the bus, and it's going to be hard to put 2 or 3 pasts a Pep team this season.

Lingard and Mkhitaryan were brutal in the first half, and well deserved to be taken off. The Rooney debate will rage. Personally, I didn't think he was that bad. He gave the ball away too often, but he contributed more than his usual game. Now, all being relative, he's still not putting in the performances we need from our #10 if we want to be a European powerhouse. But there were still performances worst that his today.

Herrera did well I felt. Valencia and Fellaini, while not top class, continue to be significantly better than they have been for two years.

I don't feel gutted by the loss; we played with passion and intensity in the second half, and I'll take that for now.

I am absolutely gutted.

While both wide players were awful the problems were deeper than that.

edgecutter

Lord TSC wrote: »

God, first off....that second half was brilliant football. Real end to end stuff, real slogging each other with constant attacks.

City won it in the first 30 minutes. I felt we played much better after that, but by then, they were able to park the bus, and it's going to be hard to put 2 or 3 pasts a Pep team this season.

Lingard and Mkhitaryan were brutal in the first half, and well deserved to be taken off. The Rooney debate will rage. Personally, I didn't think he was that bad. He gave the ball away too often, but he contributed more than his usual game. Now, all being relative, he's still not putting in the performances we need from our #10 if we want to be a European powerhouse. But there were still performances worst that his today.

Herrera did well I felt. Valencia and Fellaini, while not top class, continue to be significantly better than they have been for two years.

I don't feel gutted by the loss; we played with passion and intensity in the second half, and I'll take that for now.

He still doesn't offer enough as a 10 and even on the right wing today he simply wanted to get sent off. A 3 man midfield worked better for us today and that has to spell the end of Rooney as a starter.

Also I have no idea why Lindgaard started today and also how he lasted 45 mins, he should have been hauled off after 10.

J. Marston

I hope people aren't fooled by that scoreline. A keeper cock-up made it look close but City were and are the vastly superior side.

They should've finished us off half a dozen times on the counter. Our attacking plan consisted of calling for penalties that never were and looking for knockdowns. City were cool and composed, we were a mess.

A sobering display after the first three wins.

edgecutter

J. Marston wrote: »

I hope people aren't fooled by that scoreline. A keeper cock-up made it look close but City were and are the vastly superior side.

They should've finished us off half a dozen times on the counter. Our attacking plan consisted of calling for penalties that never were and looking for knockdowns. City were cool and composed, we were a mess.

A sobering display after the first three wins.

The Bravo on Rooney I still feel is a penalty and a red.

JaMarcusHustle

The only positive I'll take from that game is that it's been a long time since United matches were this exciting to watch.

Far too many negatives though. Mkhitaryan, Lingard, Blind , Ibrahimovic and Pogba were ranging from utter shíte to poor in that specific order.

Fellaini and Valencia probably our two better players, but even still they had frustrating moments.

Herrera and Rashford were very good when they came on, they need to start.

This 2 man midfield crap needs to end against the better teams. As does Blind playing center back.

Rashford's age and lack of expensive price tag needs to stop being held against him. It's becoming more and more apparent that he is a special, unique talent and he needs to be starting games. It's not unrealistic to say he is one of our 2/3 best players. Form wise, he's probably our best.

Disappointing that Pogba did not stamp himself on such a big game. A 2 man midfield didn't do him any favours, but he was anonymous in the second half save for some nice moments of close control, but ultimately no influence on the game.

There was just something very frustrating about our reaction times to certain moments. City reacted to everything a second quicker than we did. Caught watching too often, too many misplaced passes. Even those that will count as successful passes were a yard or two behind where they should have been.

Mkhitaryan, I'm hoping, was still feeling the effects of his injury because that was a scandalous first half. Shying away from contact, ball getting stuck under his feet, poor first touch.... he was abysmal.

Rooney, I just don't know. Not his worst game, but still way too many poor decisions, slow play and lack of awareness. Had some good moments too, but he can't keep getting away with it being in such an important position.
Just an equally exciting and frustrating game.

Notorious

adox wrote: »

Rooney needs to be out of the team for it to progress and evolve.

Agreed there. I couldn't understand why he wasn't subbed off - I was convinced Martial was coming on for him. I know the debate will rage on, but I don't think he gives enough to the team to guarantee his position.

bangkok

rooney did well today, didnt shy away from the ball and played well when put out right.

lingard was a disaster in the first half, should never have started ahead of rashford

Kerrydude1981

edgecutter wrote: »

The Bravo on Rooney I still feel is a penalty and a red.

Ya, if it happened anywhere else on the pitch it would have been a free kick

Manutd_4life

Jose got the team wrong and it cost us in that first half. Jesse and Micky didn't do s**t. Should have been Rashford and Martial

deaddonkey15

edgecutter wrote: »

He still doesn't offer enough as a 10 and even on the right wing today he simply wanted to get sent off. A 3 man midfield worked better for us today and that has to spell the end of Rooney as a starter.

He created 2 great chances at the end of the first half, at least one of them Ibrahimovich should have scored.

On the right wing he was the only player consistently getting the ball into the box.

Quandary

We lost that game in the first half.

Herrera was excellent, really should be starting in that midfield.

Fellaini was our only real performer from the starting 11.

Rashford was immediately effective when he came on. He needs to be given a shot at starting a run of games.

Pogba had some flashes of quality but was poor overall and largely anonymous.

Rooney was very poor. either play him as a striker or properly at 10 in a different formation or not at all. He is not good enough to play as a starting midfielder.

The less said about lingard and Mkhitaryan the better. They were one of the main reasons we were destroyed in the first half.

Shaw also had poor enough game.

If we are playing a midfield 3 then our best selection IMO is Herrera, Fellaini and Pogba.

RobbingBandit

Different team in the second half just couldn't connect the passes de bruyne was just impeccable for them throughout the whole match. We need to reevaluate the defense on a whole it was sloppy and unorganised but with only 5 players in the squad it was always gonna be difficult. City had ibra neutralised for much of the first half he is such a difference maker. Mata should have started IMO but he didn't. 2 goals and 2 points behind isn't so bad as with that keeper city will drop points sooner or later we just need to not slip up when they do.

adox

edgecutter wrote: »

The Bravo on Rooney I still feel is a penalty and a red.

A penalty absolutely.

Ref was very poor. Fellaini and Bailly bookings were jokes. Two awful challenges from Bravo and Otamendi went unpunished. City persistently fouled to break up counters but no cards til the 90th minute for it.

That first half though. Absolutely schooled. Embarrassing isn't an over exaggeration.

Trigger

Thought Rooney was a hell of a lot better when he was put out on the right, I think the midfield 3 is the way to go forward and try Rooney out there if he is to be played, and we can change it around a bit too.

Herrera was great when he came on and injected some life into the team.

Pogba was poor overall and Fellaini did most of the work in the middle, Fell broke up the play great and recycled the ball well.

While Bailly and Blind were poor for the goals I think Bailly kept us in the game in the second half and he can only grow, Id like to see Smalling beside him to see how that goes.

Its crazy how excited i get when Rashford gets on the ball, he make me get on the edge of my seat.

Not too disappointed with the loss in the grand scheme of things, we played some great stuff in the second half and its early days yet, if we can with the same passion and intensity as the second half every week we will be in a good place.

bangkok

dont know how people think rooney was poor today

Lord TSC

Manutd_4life wrote: »

Jose got the team wrong and it cost us in that first half. Jesse and Micky didn't do s**t. Should have been Rashford and Martial

Easy to say in hindsight, but Martial absolutely deserved to be dropped; he's been bad for the opening games, and did not deserve the chance to start. You might have an argument for Rashford (but even then, he's wasted anywhere but upfront, and you have to start Ibra up there) but trying to play Lingard over Martial was worth a try.

deaddonkey15

Notorious wrote: »

Agreed there. I couldn't understand why he wasn't subbed off - I was convinced Martial was coming on for him. I know the debate will rage on, but I don't think he gives enough to the team to guarantee his position.

He gave more to the team today than anyone else bar perhaps Rashford.

adox

Manutd_4life wrote: »

Jose got the team wrong and it cost us in that first half. Jesse and Micky didn't do s**t. Should have been Rashford and Martial

If only it was that simple...

user2011

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

City probably deserve it for the first half performance

Think Utd have to start on the front foot ,seemed to drop off them in the first half and that just helped City settle and they dominated the play,

Has to be best game ive seen between a Jose side and Pep side,no nonsense like that used be going on in the El Classico's

Valencia outstanding again,was really tested in the first half but he stuck at it,

Ander was great when he came on,brought much needed life and legs to that midfield,

Valencia outstanding? Wt.... Seriously!!! Game was lost in the first 35mins because pep instructed his lads to target him and got 2 goals ahead, could of been more iirc.

J. Marston

I don't understand Rashford not starting. A last minute winner in the last game and a hattrick mid-week, he even scored against City last season.

Cantona's Collars

adox wrote: »

A penalty absolutely.

Ref was very poor. Fellaini and Bailly bookings were jokes. Two awful challenges from Bravo and Otamendi went unpunished. City persistently fouled to break up counters but no cards til the 90th minute for it.

That first half though. Absolutely schooled. Embarrassing isn't an over exaggeration.

Didn't take long for Pep to instill the Barca style cynical fouls and timewasting.Yes City were so dominant in the first half but when the pressure came on,it was foul after foul.
The one positive was the fact we kept attacking and trying to get a result,last season we would have seen umpteen pointless sideways passes and then a ball back to De Gea rather than getting it forward.

deaddonkey15

user2011 wrote: »

Valencia outstanding? Wt.... Seriously!!! Game was lost in the first 35mins because pep instructed his lads to target him and got 2 goals ahead, could of been more iirc.

But neither of the goals were Valencia's fault?

Pro. F

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

I wouldn't be blaming Ibra for anything. We get a few attacks at the end of the first half, Ibra then buried his first decent chance and what a strike it was. He's had two other half chances near the end of the half, one a ball cleared when heading for goal. We all know Ibra doesn't track back, that's not his game. He leads from the front and United need to bring the ball to him. He flourishes leading from the front or holding up the ball and creating. So me, the first half performance had nothing to do with him.

Ibra was very bad at holding the ball up and creating today. I wouldn't worry about his lack of quality shots, because of how the game went, but outside of that he was poor.

Pro. F

The fact that Ibra is getting so little criticism and Rooney so much is crazy. People are not watching the games objectively.

adox

bangkok wrote: »

dont know how people think rooney was poor today

Don't know how people thought he played well today. see what I did.

He has lost a lot of pace but was always an intelligent footballer and you would think his football brain would carry him through. His football brain seems to have slowed down too. He's ponderous on the ball. Unaware when he's under immediate pressure and not quick enough with his train of thought.

It's time to move on. The team is being re moulded. His time has been and gone. He's on the wane big time. There are players there to take his place which would benefit the team overall.

Liam McPoyle

bangkok wrote: »

dont know how people think rooney was poor today

He was frustrating by times but he certainly wasn't our worst performer.

edgecutter

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

He created 2 great chances at the end of the first half, at least one of them Ibrahimovich should have scored.

On the right wing he was the only player consistently getting the ball into the box.

We are chasing the game so of course he will get more of the ball. 4-2-3-1 is set up to accommodate him, when 4-3-3 worked a lot better for us in the second half and that formation should mean no room for Rooney.

If you want to see what a good No.10 is look at De Brunye today and compare what Rooney has offered us for the last 3 years.

deaddonkey15

Pro. F wrote: »

The fact that Ibra is getting so little criticism and Rooney so much is crazy. People are not watching the games objectively.

It's been like that for a long time. Saw someone call Ibrahimovich's piss poor strike at the end of the first half a half chance. Bravo out of the picture and only Stones standing in front of Ibrahimovich on the City line - some half chance. If Rooney had bottled that opportunity...

Not much criticism for Pogba either. Failed to influence the game in any way shape or form. Seems an £89m pound price tag and £200,000+ weekly wage still leaves you less open for criticism than wearing the captain's armband.

Robson99

user2011 wrote: »

Valencia outstanding? Wt.... Seriously!!! Game was lost in the first 35mins because pep instructed his lads to target him and got 2 goals ahead, could of been more iirc.

If you think the two goals came off Valencia then you really have not got a clue. Baffling if you dont think Valencia played well. Was one of our best today

Lord TSC

Pro. F wrote: »

The fact that Ibra is getting so little criticism and Rooney so much is crazy. People are not watching the games objectively.

Ibra scored a goal, which we've been hearing loads of "Thats all that matters" when discussing other players in weeks gone by. You also have the issue that when the wingers were so, so bad, the striker got absolutely starved of chances.

He didn't have a fantastic game, but when there's little to no chances being created for him, he's going to get off lighter.....Ibra is the type of striker who'll put goals away when chances are created. If the rest of the team suffers, so will he.

adox

Btw lads and lassies, well done during the week for your little love in here and having a good laugh and goading at those that have crtiticised Blind as a CB.

fitzer1982

Obviously disappointing result but compared to how easily we rolled over when were behind last year it's a drastic improvement. We showed real fight and another day we might of snuck a result even if we didn't deserve it overall. Lots to look forward to this year, I look forward to every game we play, the last 3 years I couldn't say the same.

edgecutter

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

It's been like that for a long time. Saw someone call Ibrahimovich's piss poor strike at the end of the first half a half chance. Bravo out of the picture and only Stones standing in front of Ibrahimovich on the City line - some half chance. If Rooney had bottled that opportunity...

Ibra is a new signing that has score 4 goals already this season. Like any new signing people will cut him some slack for his performance. That said I was disappointed with him, but he is nearly 35.

Manutd_4life

user2011 wrote: »

Valencia outstanding? Wt.... Seriously!!! Game was lost in the first 35mins because pep instructed his lads to target him and got 2 goals ahead, could of been more iirc.

Just saw the replay of the goal on sky and there is no way Val is responsible for both goals!! Don't know what you're on about....

Robson99

adox wrote: »

Btw lads and lassies, well done during the week for your little love in here and having a good laugh and goading at those that have crtiticised Blind as a CB.

He really poor for both goals

Kerrydude1981

Lord TSC wrote: »

Ibra scored a goal, which we've been hearing loads of "Thats all that matters" when discussing other players in weeks gone by. You also have the issue that when the wingers were so, so bad, the striker got absolutely starved of chances.

He didn't have a fantastic game, but when there's little to no chances being created for him, he's going to get off lighter.....Ibra is the type of striker who'll put goals away when chances are created. If the rest of the team suffers, so will he.

That one he missed at the end of the first half,I really surprised that he missed it,he never connected with it and Stones got it off the line.

Robson99

Manutd_4life wrote: »

Just saw the replay of the goal on sky and there is no way Val is responsible for both goals!! Don't know what you're on about....

I think hes on the playstation

Cantona's Collars

adox wrote: »

Btw lads and lassies, well done during the week for your little love in here and having a good laugh and goading at those that have crtiticised Blind as a CB.

A mistake by Bailly and Blind caught flat footed for De Bruyne's goal,both at fault there but they actually played pretty well after that.

Lord TSC

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

That one he missed at the end of the first half,I really surprised that he missed it,he never connected with it and Stones got it off the line.

Yeah, that one had me out of the seat. The deflection that got ruled out for offside made me cry as well

54and56

Ibra is a complete passenger and his inability to press is inviting serious pressure onto the team. No doubt about his skills and ability to score but Pep got rid of him sharpish when he took over at Barcelona and it's clear why. Can Utd really afford to carry him each PL game?

Speaking of players who were gotten rid of sharpish, Mourinho got rid of KDB at Chelsea but paid £100m for Pogba who was totally ill disciplined (in terms of positioning) and totally outclassed by KDB.

Some big question marks about whether Mourinho is the manager he once was or the manager who got fired from Chelsea last year. I know it's too early to tell but he lost today on all fronts i.e. tactics, team selection and the quality of the players he signed. The only one who looks to be justifying his place is Bailly. The other three are very questionable as is his continued persistence with Rooney.

adox

:pac:

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Ibra is a complete passenger and his inability to press is inviting serious pressure onto the team. No doubt about his skills and ability to score but Pep got rid of him sharpish when he took over at Barcelona and it's clear why. Can Utd really afford to carry him each PL game?

Speaking of players who were gotten rid of sharpish, Mourinho got rid of KDB at Chelsea but paid £100m for Pogba who was totally ill disciplined (in terms of positioning) and totally outclassed by KDB.

Some big question marks about whether Mourinho is the manager he once was or the manager who got fired from Chelsea last year. I know it's too early to tell but he lost today on all fronts i.e. tactics, team selection and the quality of the players he signed. The only one who looks to be justifying his place is Bailly. The other three are very questionable as is his continued persistence with Rooney.

:pac:

FutureGuy

We learned a lot today. Herrera should be starting in this team. Has the energy, the heart, the brain and the bite needed.

Fellaini again one of our best players. It's amazing how bitter and blind some United supporters are in fairness. Was in a pub and every time (the very few times) he made a mistake, two lads mauled him. Silence when he was bossing it of course - wouldn't acknowledge anythinb he did but thought Pogba was a fcuking God because he beat a man. Fellaini was better than Pogba today.

Ibra will have lots of games like that.

Opposition learned a lot about City. Absolutely pepper and pressure Bravo. They will drop points because of him for certain.

I understand Mourinhos team selection to hurt City's full backs who come inside but Rashford should have started imho.

Great performance second half.

That's a disjointed post but cant be arsed retyping on phone!!!

Kerrydude1981

Manutd_4life wrote: »

Just saw the replay of the goal on sky and there is no way Val is responsible for both goals!! Don't know what you're on about....

Valencia should no way be faulted for any of the goals

Ok City did alot of damage down Utds right,but our CM was all over the place as Carragher pointed out there,just to much space for City's playmakers to get on the ball and do what they like basically

Pro. F

Lord TSC wrote: »

Ibra scored a goal, which we've been hearing loads of "Thats all that matters" when discussing other players in weeks gone by.

You might have been having those conversations with other posters, not with me. Ibra took that chance well, but overall he played poorly.

Lord TSC wrote: »

You also have the issue that when the wingers were so, so bad, the striker got absolutely starved of chances.

He didn't have a fantastic game, but when there's little to no chances being created for him, he's going to get off lighter.....Ibra is the type of striker who'll put goals away when chances are created. If the rest of the team suffers, so will he.

Ibra's hold up and movement was very poor. I wouldn't criticise him based on his goal threat today because, as you say, the service wasn't there. But his overall play was bad.

edgecutter

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Ibra is a complete passenger and his inability to press is inviting serious pressure onto the team. No doubt about his skills and ability to score but Pep got rid of him sharpish when he took over at Barcelona and it's clear why. Can Utd really afford to carry him each PL game?

Speaking of players who were gotten rid of sharpish, Mourinho got rid of KDB at Chelsea but paid £100m for Pogba who was totally ill disciplined (in terms of positioning) and totally outclassed by KDB.

Some big question marks about whether Mourinho is the manager he once was or the manager who got fired from Chelsea last year. I know it's too early to tell but he lost today on all fronts i.e. tactics, team selection and the quality of the players he signed. The only one who looks to be justifying his place is Bailly. The other three are very questionable as is his continued persistence with Rooney.

It is early days and I feel Jose possibly felt Lindgaard's work rate would help the team. You can't foresee a player who trains everyday not being able to control a ball all game.