Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

Pro. F

user2011 wrote: »

That's why i said first from what i was seeing, with the back up from the commentary. Our right right side was targeted. He came good in the end but we were 2 down by that stage city were looked very comfortable.

Our right side wasn't targeted and Valencia wasn't at fault for the goals. He didn't need to come good, he hadn't done anything wrong.

Korat

That was an above average performance from Rooney tonight. Utd need a lot better than that and he's not the only one who just isn't at a standard Utd need to win major trophies.

Trigger

Pro. F wrote: »

Our right side wasn't targeted and Valencia wasn't at fault for the goals. He didn't need to come good, he hadn't done anything wrong.

I felt that they were targeting the right hand side but Valencia dealt with it very well and basically didn't give Nolito much room to do anything when he got on the ball, I thought it was a very professional display by Tony V

adox

Jayop wrote: »

So we all hate clattenberg yeah? Some clown in the match thread had a go at me saying that he'd trust a pro ref to know the rules better than me. He clearly thinks refs are infallible or never bow to pressure.

I'd say the percentage of posters in Utd match threads that genuinely want to discuss the matches ina serious manner is pretty low.

Korat

I thought Tony V was inspirational at times, he set up the goal which will still be used as a Rooney assist statistic in a future argument.

Ibra and Mikhi were dissapointing but City had a few misfiring too. I thought the difference tonight was that City were carrying fewer passengers in key positions.

Cantona's Collars

astradave wrote: »

I felt that they were targeting the right hand side but Valencia dealt with it very well and basically didn't give Nolito much room to do anything when he got on the ball, I thought it was a very professional display by Tony V

Considering Tony V was rated doubtful due to travelling from South America he actually did pretty well despite being doubled up on at times,loved how he was urging players forward late in the game when they looked knackered........What is wrong with me? I wanted him out of the club last season.

VW 1

Korat wrote:

I thought Tony V was inspirational at times, he set up the goal which will still be used as a Rooney assist statistic in a future argument.

Thought Tony had a good game. But Rooney assist? Whoever played it back to Ibra will get the assist. Rooney's ball in was pretty poor IMO.

jayo26

It's disappointing to loose the Derby but the big thing to take away from today is they know they have alot of work to do and learn from it.

A big problem with tactics today was that we were better when Herrera came on and our midfield looked better but there is nowhere for Rooney then only out wide and even tho he wasn't that bad out there today it's still not a solution and it's making another position for him.

bangkok

adox wrote: »

I'd say the percentage of posters in Utd match threads that genuinely want to discuss the matches ina serious manner is pretty low.

match thread is a bit pointless no?? trying to look at a game and reply to posters at the same time

user2011

Pro. F wrote: »

Our right side wasn't targeted and Valencia wasn't at fault for the goals. He didn't need to come good, he hadn't done anything wrong.

With all respect to you, im seriously not getting into if you think i think posting.

I gave my opinion throw up all the stats you want that the right side of the defense wasn't targeted in the first half we'll leave it there.

adox

bangkok wrote: »

match thread is a bit pointless no?? trying to look at a game and reply to posters at the same time

No. Be no problem typing things in real time as a game is on. The problem is with the contributions. It's all pretty childish and I avoid now like the plague.

Pro. F

user2011 wrote: »

With all respect to you, im seriously not getting into if you think i think posting.

I gave my opinion throw up all the stats you want that the right side of the defense wasn't targeted in the first half we'll leave it there.

Yeah fair enough. Let's leave it.

Pro. F

Korat wrote: »

I thought Tony V was inspirational at times, he set up the goal which will still be used as a Rooney assist statistic in a future argument.

That won't go down as a Rooney assist.

deaddonkey15

I didn't notice during the game that City were specifically focusing their attacks on the right, I didn't notice them getting much joy on the right either. Valencia did fine I thought, he wasn't helped much by Mkhitaryan in the first half.

Robson99

Now that the dust has settled a bit and looking back over some of the game again I think a couple of things stand out.
Our two centre halves were all over the shop in the first half. First goal was a simple header for Baily and he barely moved. Blind was also poor for it and was poor for the second goal.
Pogba was positionally poor also in the first half
Rooney, Lingard and Mickey were also poor in the first half. [Please dont be saying Rooney created the goal for Ibra -it was a ****e ball into the box that every other premier keeper would gave caught ]
It was too big a game to start Lingard and Mickey
Ibra took his goal well but missed two great chances after.
Going forward I think we need to forget about 4231in the big games.
We need a player like Schneiderlin to sit in front of the back four with Pogba and Herrera alongside him.
Rashford on the left Rooney or Ibrahim centre forward and Martial or Mickey on the right.
Pogba and Fellani are both better going forward than defending and that needs to be addressed.
Also Rooney only position is a centre forwsrd. Hes not a 10 never was and near will be. He should be competing with Ibrahim for that position

I know its a long season but city still have Kompany, Gundogan and Augero to come in to that set up. They will be hard stopped

adox

Schneiderlin as a holding midfielder would be a no no for me. He hasn't earned the right for a starting place in the team and is living off his Southampton reputation. Fellaini has adapted brilliantly to the defensive style midfield player of the two and should keep it.

Point is in the big games(like today) with a clever player like De Bruyne playing between the lines and City committing so many forward Utd will always be outnumbered. I'd agree with three in midfield for the big games but no way would I put Schneiderlin in there as things stand. Fellaini, Herrera and Pogba would be my choice.

Jose likes two though.

adox

Also, saying it was too big a game to start Lingard and Miki, it all sounds like hindsight to me. I don't remember anyone complaining about it when the team was announced. Maybe some were surprised Rashford didn't start but people were falling over themselves calling for Miki to start.

Also Lingard, despite being awful today, has proven in the past that he has the temperament for the big games.

It's **** that they were both awful in the half they played but both are more than capable of playing and playing well in these sort of games.

Robson99

adox wrote: »

Schneiderlin as a holding midfielder would be a no no for me. He hasn't earned the right for a starting place in the team and is living off his Southampton reputation. Fellaini has adapted brilliantly to the defensive style midfield player of the two and should keep it.

Point is in the big games(like today) with a clever player like De Bruyne playing between the lines and City committing so many forward Utd will always be outnumbered. I'd agree with three in midfield for the big games but no way would I put Schneiderlin in there as things stand. Fellaini, Herrera and Pogba would be my choice.

Jose likes two though.

He hasn't given him a chance though... maybe thats why we were in for Kante before he went to Chelsea
Still dont think Fellani is a holding player

adox

Robson99 wrote: »

He hasn't given him a chance though... maybe thats why we were in for Kante before he went to Chelsea
Still dont think Fellani is a holding player

Schneiderlin hasn't looked a Utd player once since he signed IMO.

Jose will tinker around the edges of the team but I'd say Fellaini and Pogba are certain starters for most games when fit. It's whether he throws another body in there or not.

I do sometimes think that players stock seems to rise the less they play and that certainly seems to be the case with Schneiderlin. I think he's been one of the most disappointing signings and wouldn't bat an eyelid if he was moved on and someone else brought in.

Robson99

adox wrote: »

Also, saying it was too big a game to start Lingard and Miki, it all sounds like hindsight to me. I don't remember anyone complaining about it when the team was announced. Maybe she were surprised Rashford didn't start but people were falling over themselves calling for Miki to start.

Also Lingard, despite being awful today, has proven in the past that he has the temperament for the big games.

It's **** that they were both awful in the half they played but both are more than capable of playing and playing well in these sort of games.

I was surprised Lingard started. Its a big season for him he needs to get more consistent or he will be another nearly player- he can do good things but unfortunlately not often enough.
Mickey will need time to adjust to the P.L. ID cut him a bit of slack for today

Pro. F

I don't think that 433 was particularly good today. We needed the extra man in there (and so one less forward) just to cope defensively, but that looked like more of a last resort than a properly functioning set-up. It stopped City playing through us, but then in possession there wasn't enough of a connection with Ibra and there was a whole lot of long balls and deep crosses.

Edit: maybe Jose just told them to play it long, is a possibility too. But either way, I don't think the play in possession was particularly impressive.

deaddonkey15

adox wrote: »

Also, saying it was too big a game to start Lingard and Miki, it all sounds like hindsight to me. I don't remember anyone complaining about it when the team was announced. Maybe she were surprised Rashford didn't start but people were falling over themselves calling for Miki to start.

Also Lingard, despite being awful today, has proven in the past that he has the temperament for the big games.

It's **** that they were both awful in the half they played but both are more than capable of playing and playing well in these sort of games.

I wasn't too encouraged by seeing Lingard start but he does tend to at least work hard and sometimes produce some quality moments. At the same time, I don't think he's good enough (or ever will be to be honest) to be a first team player at United so I'm not overly surprised by his performance especially considering the magnitude of the game and City's intensity in the first half. Mkhitaryan though was very disappointing.

adox

Robson99 wrote: »

I was surprised Lingard started. Its a big season for him he needs to get more consistent or he will be another nearly player- he can do good things but unfortunlately not often enough.
Mickey will need time to adjust to the P.L. ID cut him a bit of slack for today

I've a lot of time for Lingard, more than most on here. I think he's a pretty smart footballer, bags of pace, very direct, always runs at a player or into space. Maybe doesn't have the silky skills of some other wingers but he makes great runs and times his runs off the ball really well too. I can see why he'd be a very attractive choice for a manager.

adox

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I wasn't too encouraged by seeing Lingard start but he does tend to at least work hard and sometimes produce some quality moments. At the same time, I don't think he's good enough (or ever will be to be honest) to be a first team player at United so I'm not overly surprised by his performance especially considering the magnitude of the game and City's intensity in the first half. Mkhitaryan though was very disappointing.

I know he splits opinion(well I'd say a majority on here don't think he's first team material) so I can see why people don't fancy him but I don't think anyone saw that level of awfulness from him or Miki coming today.

With all the wide players firing on all cylinders I wouldn't see him as an automatic starter but he's a great squad option and I've no problem when he is named on the team sheet.

Cantona's Collars

Thank fook there's boxing on tonight,something to watch other than the wankfest that there will be on MOTD over City.
There's 34 games to go so I'm not going to let today annoy me.As I said before,despite the result we actually tried to do something about it rather than last season's bollixology.

user2011

zerks wrote: »

Thank fook there's boxing on tonight,something to watch other than the wankfest that there will be on MOTD over City.
There's 34 games to go so I'm not going to let today annoy me.As I said before,despite the result we actually tried to do something about it rather than last season's bollixology.

Last sentence zerks, feeling the same.

Robson99

Pro. F wrote: »

I don't think that 433 was particularly good today. We needed the extra man in there (and so one less forward) just to cope defensively, but that looked like more of a last resort than a properly functioning set-up. It stopped City playing through us, but then in possession there wasn't enough of a connection with Ibra and there was a whole lot of long balls and deep crosses.

Edit: maybe Jose just told them to play it long, is a possibility too. But either way, I don't think the play in possession was particularly impressive.

We had to go 433 or we would have been hammered. Having to make 2 substitutions at half time killed us to as both Pogba and Fellani looked knackered with 10 min to go.
Three was a lot of deep crosses into the box when it should have gone wide and a better cross gone in... Rooney twice had Shaw outside him and pumped it in long instead of giving it to him

adox

I think it's a bit of a weird system for the players we have. The main pace and wide threat is expected form the fullbacks but there's only two midfielders in front of them and one of them is Pogba, who doesn't yet seem to have the discipline to play in a two at this level. His natural game is to get forward.

If Pogba is to be a constant and so to the system(both very likely) then ultimately the team may need to be picked and set up for him to play.

Maybe I'm overthinking it after today but it did look very dysfunctional today.

Robson99

adox wrote: »

I think it's a bit of a weird system for the players we have. The main pace and wide threat is expected form the fullbacks but there's only two midfielders in front of them and one of them is Pogba, who doesn't yet seem to have the discipline to play in a two at this level. His natural game is to get forward.

If Pogba is to be a constant and so to the system(both very likely) then ultimately the team may need to be picked and set up for him to play.

Maybe I'm overthinking it after today but it did look very dysfunctional today.

Its early days yet Adox. But ID be worried how strong city look and also the players they have to come in

Pro. F

Robson99 wrote: »

We had to go 433 or we would have been hammered.

Yep, that's what I was saying.

Robson99 wrote: »

Having to make 2 substitutions at half time killed us to as both Pogba and Fellani looked knackered with 10 min to go.
Three was a lot of deep crosses into the box when it should have gone wide and a better cross gone in... Rooney twice had Shaw outside him and pumped it in long instead of giving it to him

Imo the problems were there the whole half, not just the last ten minutes. Crosses from a fullback running to the bye-line wouldn't have fixed the issues either. The shape and the build-up wasn't there, throughout the team.

Adamocovic

zerks wrote: »

Thank fook there's boxing on tonight,something to watch other than the wankfest that there will be on MOTD over City.
There's 34 games to go so I'm not going to let today annoy me.As I said before,despite the result we actually tried to do something about it rather than last season's bollixology.

Agree completely.

I know some people didn't agree but I loved the move to take off Shaw for Martial.

The fact that with 10 mins to go instead of playing it safe and hoping to nab an equaliser we changed formation and pushed for the winner was great to see, even if it didn't pay off.

Like many have already said, first half was awful, second half complete change. But as you said there is plenty of football left this season.

Cantona's Collars

Adamocovic wrote: »

Agree completely.

I know some people didn't agree but I loved the move to take off Shaw for Martial.

The fact that with 10 mins to go instead of playing it safe and hoping to nab an equaliser we changed formation and pushed for the winner was great to see, even if it didn't pay off.

Like many have already said, first half was awful, second half complete change. But as you said there is plenty of football left this season.

Some moaning and some digs from other fans about hoofball in the last 15 minutes,even the lads on commentary said that teams will target Bravo with high balls as he looks dodgy under them,if Jose told the team to pass it around rather than play it high into the likes of Zlatan,Fellaini etc. we would be going crazy over them not doing it.Many's the game under Fergie we did it when chasing a goal,it's not as if we do it for 90 minutes.

bangkok

Against average teams, pogba and fellaini are fine midfield, I think today proves we need a specialist defensive midfielder, still think schneiderlain has a big part to play this season

mewe

As disappointing as I found it to lose, it was a fascinating game to watch and I was encouraged by our comeback in the second half.
I think United teams of the past few years would've crumbled facing this Pep inspired City team but we did mount a decent challenge to come back in this game. Fair play to City, they were very good. I felt, in the first half in particular, we bottled it and didn't show our true quality.

Manutd_4life

https://twitter.com/Marcotti/status/774706148138254336

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

Against average teams, pogba and fellaini are fine midfield, I think today proves we need a specialist defensive midfielder, still think schneiderlain has a big part to play this season

Are picking out Fellaini for criticism over Pogba?

Mars Bar

Manutd_4life wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Marcotti/status/774706148138254336

Why the hell was he starting if he wasn't fit?

adox

bangkok wrote: »

Against average teams, pogba and fellaini are fine midfield, I think today proves we need a specialist defensive midfielder, still think schneiderlain has a big part to play this season

Not to me it doesn't. It just shows that the midfield is unbalanced against better opposition who have more numbers in there.

Fellaini is doing fine in there, especially when you consider he has Pogba alongside him, who isn't alongside him a lot of the time.

I hope you and others are right about Schneiderlin but I'd have little faith in him from what I've seen.

Robson99

Manutd_4life wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Marcotti/status/774706148138254336

Well then thats a proper fuk up by Mourino or else Mickey if he said nothing

dr.kenneth noisewater

Mars Bar wrote:

Why the hell was he starting if he wasn't fit?

Very bizarre since he hasn't started any previous games

Rayne Wooney

Seems Jose fcuked up with the team selection

Blatter

adox wrote: »

I think it's a bit of a weird system for the players we have. The main pace and wide threat is expected form the fullbacks but there's only two midfielders in front of them and one of them is Pogba, who doesn't yet seem to have the discipline to play in a two at this level. His natural game is to get forward.

If Pogba is to be a constant and so to the system(both very likely) then ultimately the team may need to be picked and set up for him to play.

Maybe I'm overthinking it after today but it did look very dysfunctional today.

In some interview or press conference a few weeks ago, Mourinho said that the team will be built around Pogba and the other players are going to have to adapt to filling in for him when he drives forward. I suppose it's not something the team is going to perfect in only his third game. He may never get it working properly and may eventually have to succumb to playing Pogba in a free role in a midfield 3.

I wouldn't worry about today. An early kick off on a Saturday after an International break can throw up some weird games/performances. The managers have so little time to prepare with the players and assess their condition. It makes the decision making on team selection and tactics much more difficult and very hit and miss. Carrying Lingard and Mkhitaryan in the first half killed the team. Absolutely no outlet. You could just about maybe get away with one playing so poorly but not both of them.

City were very good though, I'm surprised at how well Guardiola has them playing already.

Manutd_4life

Mars Bar wrote: »

Why the hell was he starting if he wasn't fit?

Honestly quite confused now!! He must have brushed it under the carpet when Jose told him he wants him to start, especially since it was his first start, but obviously his injury popped up during the game, hence his performance.

Both the player and the coaching staff are to blame if this is the case.

Cantona's Collars

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Seems Jose fcuked up with the team selection

We all knew he was injured on international duty,it was clear today that he couldn't run,let alone sprint.Very odd to select him,we had other players to fill in for him.

mewe

I must admit, I was against the signing of Fellaini and have been critical in the past of his ability to be part of a United midfield but I take it back and accept that I was wrong. He's been great this season and put some good shifts in.

I found with Pogba today, he was excellent at times and showed how strong he was protecting the ball and coming away with it out of a tussle with two City players but other times needlessly dithering on the ball and losing it when he could have released the ball to a totally free player right beside him.

eagle eye

That was a very enjoyable game today, I watched with two friends who are both United fans. One of them said after the game, and he goes over to games quite a bit, that the great thing from a United point of view was the football on show. He was saying that it's three years since United played like they did today.

City just about deserved the win but they were very shook looking after United scored. That is not the first time that they have looked like that this season and I think their winning streak will come to an end soon.

I'll be shocked if Rashford is not starting the next day. He really looks like a very special player. I remarked when he put a nice cross into the box that he was up against a £50 million defender and just made him look like a nobody.

Pogba had a poor game and the first thing I thought about was Schweinsteiger. He would have been the perfect man to bring on in his place after ten minutes of the second half.

Mkhitaryan didn't look great today either but I thought he always looked isolated when he got possession. Rooney did a little better over there but not much.

My Mom was Valencia, i thought he had an excellent game, if he had a cross in him he'd have been a very clear MoM.

Edit to add: Reputations cost two wrong decisions today. Fellaini should not have got a yellow card when he did and a short time later De Bruyne should have and didn't. It was clear to me that the referee made both those decisions based on the player's reputations.

Half cut and gutted
Will post tomorrow when I'm not sucker punched

Cantona's Collars

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Half cut and gutted
Will post tomorrow when I'm not sucker punched

Speaking of punches,Zlatan is at the Golovkin v Brook fight.I think Jose might be there too.

raze_them_all_

Thoughts on today, loss sucked but what an enjoyable game. I enjoyed losing today more than I did the boring wins last year. Lingard starting was a mistake

brinty

zerks wrote:

Speaking of punches,Zlatan is at the Golovkin v Brook fight.I think Jose might be there too.

Hope he's at UFC 204 so