Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

StringerBell

Blind at fault for both goals.....

Magnifying the issues some have with him.

StringerBell

My only complaint, besides some poor individual performances of course, is how Clattenburg does not give a penalty when Bravo jumped in, both feet off the ground and studs up on Rooney?

That is a penalty, that is reckless play and a red card.

Feel hard done by in that regard, but only ourselves to blame for being in the hole in the first place.

jayo26

StringerBell wrote: »

Blind at fault for both goals.....

Magnifying the issues some have with him.

I have defended blind in past but I'll admit he was definitely at fault for kdb goal I couldn't believe him just standing there looking at him running on goal. The second he was caught horrible out of position but it was also extremely lucky for them that it came back off post.

One of them games we were outclassed for 40 minutes hopefully we learn from it.

Pro. F

I think Blind was fairly unlucky on both goals. It was easy for KDB to get the run on him the way the ball fell for the first goal. And there was nothing else he could have done better on the second goal. He couldn't have stepped out to play offside before KDB took the shot.

Bailly's mistake on the first goal was a really bad error.

StringerBell

Pro. F wrote: »

I think Blind was fairly unlucky on both goals. It was easy for KDB to get the run on him the way the ball fell for the first goal. And there was nothing else he could have done better on the second goal. He couldn't have stepped out to play offside before KDB took the shot.

Bailly's mistake on the first goal was a really bad error.

Blinds hesitancy and always eagerness to step back bit him in the ass for the first goal, even after Bailly's error he should have been decisive and met the ball.

Highlights a weakness in his game that many see anyway, the second goal is more of the same really, too slow getting out (I may be too harsh on him here, only going from the first watch, Ill see a replay at some point obv) speed of movement seems to be a problem with him not to mention being too happy to not actively engage and be too happy to let it come to him rather then meet the ball like a commanding cb, something his reading and positional play cover for most of the time but against the better teams and players it is going to rear its ugly head.

I believe you expressed similar yourself in the past? May have the wrong poster though

jive

Pro. F wrote: »

Bailly's mistake on the first goal was a really bad error.

100% first goal is on Bailly not Blind, although Blind didn't exactly cover himself in glory.

eagle eye

I have to agree that the first goal is on Bailly. I don't think there was anything that Blind could do there. If he stepped up and Bailly goes for the ball, as he should have, and the ball breaks towards the United goal then KDB is through on goal and would be blaming Blind for stepping up.

StringerBell

Pretty sure he let the ball bounce, after Bailly had his **** up, rather then go and meet it. Allowing KDB to nip in and take it from under his nose, that is what I would have an issue with.

As I said, I only saw the goals the once, I will reassess maybe on further viewing.

54and56

Mourinho publicly blaming his players for not having enough bottle for the derby, this is the devisive Mourinho that got fired from Chelsea last year. He'd never have done that in his heyday and neither would SAF.

Today marks the beginning of the end of Mourinho's short reign as Utd manager.

Mark my words.

deaddonkey15

bangkok wrote: »

Against average teams, pogba and fellaini are fine midfield, I think today proves we need a specialist defensive midfielder, still think schneiderlain has a big part to play this season

How about moving Blind back to Dm and putting Smalling back in at centre half? Blind is a good reader of the game and often cuts things out before it's necessary to make a tackle. Very comfortable on the ball too. Could compliment Fellaini perfectly, allowing Pogba to move further forward and Smalling to integrate himself back into the team.

Pro. F

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Mark my words.

If we believed just a tenth of the words you say about United we'd never want to watch the team again. You are relentless in your quest to view everything to do with United in a negative light and no United fan gives a fùck about what you think is going to happen at the club.

Rayne Wooney

I don't think any of our CB options would have stopped 2 or more goals today, it was inevitable. KDB ran riot, we just weren't able to match their use of the ball.

Disappointing because their defence looked very shaky and we didn't test it at all, Mkhitaryan and Lingard were flops and really bizarre inclusions when neither had started a league game before.

raze_them_all_

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Mourinho publicly blaming his players for not having enough bottle for the derby, this is the devisive Mourinho that got fired from Chelsea last year. He'd never have done that in his heyday and neither would SAF.

Today marks the beginning of the end of Mourinho's short reign as Utd manager.

Mark my words.

lol no.

Notorious

Pro. F wrote: »

His form hasn't been poor recently. If you didn't go inventing things to criticise him about then you might see that.

You must be smoking something seriously strong if you think Rooney hasn't been poor recently. My dog would do a better job at keeping the ball.

Korat

If I never see Rooney in a Utd shirt again it will be too soon. His lethargy and inaccuracy seems to be infectious especially as he's the ****ing captain. While we can expect better days from pretty much every other Utd player that was as good as it gets from Rooney these days.

54and56

Pro. F wrote: »

If we believed just a tenth of the words you say about United we'd never want to watch the team again. You are relentless in your quest to view everything to do with United in a negative light and no United fan gives a fùck about what you think is going to happen at the club.

Touchy touchy there Pro F, seems like you are afraid what I'm saying may well be true.

I don't expect you to like it but denying Mourinhos behavior isn't going to magic it away. He's already showing all the signs that got him sacked from Chelsea last year.

titan18

jive wrote:

100% first goal is on Bailly not Blind, although Blind didn't exactly cover himself in glory.

First goal is on Mhkritaryan. He didn't put any pressure on Kolarov and allowed him pass to KDB. Way too much time to allow City players gave the ball

jaykay74

Je_suis_Jean wrote:

He's already showing all the signs that got him sacked from Chelsea last year.

All the signs? What did I miss...? Just curious, haven't spotted anything myself.

bangkok

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Touchy touchy there Pro F, seems like you are afraid what I'm saying may well be true.

I don't expect you to like it but denying Mourinhos behavior isn't going to magic it away. He's already showing all the signs that got him sacked from Chelsea last year.

Whaaaaaaaa? Are you on the sauce already?!

Liam McPoyle

jaykay74 wrote: »

All the signs? What did I miss...? Just curious, haven't spotted anything myself.

JSJ is a fan of the scouse.

That's all that's in it.

jaykay74

Saul T Nutzz wrote:

JSJ is a fan of the scouse. That's all that's in it.

I know plenty of sound Liverpool fans. Just wondering if this lad is trolling or not. Obviously I don't doubt his sincerity myself but...

The_Kew_Tour

Yesterday was disappointing. Missed it due to work and don't want watch highlights.

Personally when I saw lineups I got bad feeling.

But from what I hear and read 2nd half was much better. Bad day at office and hate losing to that bunch, but if we learn from the mistakes it be a positive come may, IF being key word

Liam McPoyle

jaykay74 wrote: »

I know plenty of sound Liverpool fans. Just wondering if this lad is trolling or not. Obviously I don't doubt his sincerity myself but...

Well when someone takes the time to post in here, signalling the death march of the manager after they lose just one game, particularly given his own allegiance, sincere is not a word I personally would use to describe what it is.

Adamocovic

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Mourinho publicly blaming his players for not having enough bottle for the derby, this is the devisive Mourinho that got fired from Chelsea last year. He'd never have done that in his heyday and neither would SAF.

Today marks the beginning of the end of Mourinho's short reign as Utd manager.

Mark my words.

Robson99

titan18 wrote: »

First goal is on Mhkritaryan. He didn't put any pressure on Kolarov and allowed him pass to KDB. Way too much time to allow City players gave the ball

You cant blame Mickey for a long ball that came from the corner flag..
The ball was long enough in the air for our 2 centre halfs to deal with it. It was there fuk up
Actually ID have a pop at Rooney for giving the ball away prior to that rather than Mickey

jaykay74

Saul T Nutzz wrote:

Well when someone takes the time to post in here, signalling the death march of the manager after they lose just one game, particularly given his own allegiance, sincere is not a word I personally would use to describe what it is.

Well, I've offered him the chance to back up his claim or else the purpose of the post is clear I guess.

Liam McPoyle

I'm not hugely disappointed after yesterday.

I would have taken a point before the game so I view it as dropping 1 rather than 3.

Obviously losing sucks but we simply didn't turn out for the first half.

First game back after an international break, fitness niggles over Miki and Shaw and Jose still doesn't know his best 11.

We have some EL and cup games coming up which will help give Jose a chance to try different things.

We have two extra points after 4 games than we had after 4 last year.

The second half we were much more fluid.

There's positives to take so its not the end of the world.

Teams lose, City are favourites for a reason so losing to them is not some shocking result.

caviardreams

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Yesterday was disappointing. Missed it due to work and don't want watch highlights.

Personally when I saw lineups I got bad feeling.

But from what I hear and read 2nd half was much better. Bad day at office and hate losing to that bunch, but if we learn from the mistakes it be a positive come may, IF being key word

Would agree with that - some positive in terms of the way we kept plugging away and the heads didn't drop.

Also may be a reality check and help to nip any potential complacency or sense of getting carried away with upcoming fixtures like Watford etc. Every game is difficult.

Richard Hillman

Pogba went missing in the business end of the Euros and again, a big game pops up and he goes missing. The Euros should have sent alarm bells to Man Utd that this guy isnt a 100m player.

Bale, CR7, Kaka, Zidane, Figo, Shearer, all world record players, all had bad games occasionally, but they never went missing on the big stage. They could flop and play badly but they were never anonymous.

Truly class players don't go awol.

jaykay74

Richard Hillman wrote:

Bale, CR7, Kaka, Zidane, Figo, Shearer, all world record players, all had bad games occasionally, but they never went missing on the big stage. They could flop and play badly but they were never anonymous.

Kaka never did what?

gosplan

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Touchy touchy there Pro F, seems like you are afraid what I'm saying may well be true.

I don't expect you to like it but denying Mourinhos behavior isn't going to magic it away. He's already showing all the signs that got him sacked from Chelsea last year.

I'm not even a Utd fan...and I hate Mourinho but you're being rediculous here.

What got him sacked from Chelsea last year was appalling results - so no, after 3 wins from 4, he's not showing signs of that.

Also Mourinho, at his most successful, had no problems saying players weren't doing enough - Duff comes to mind in that first spell at Chelsea. Jose said IIRC that he wasn't committed and aggressive enough post-injury. There's been many others too.

I too would love to see Jose fail but in the immortal words of Marlo Stanfield. 'You want it to be one way. But it's the other way.'

Adamocovic

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Pogba went missing in the business end of the Euros and again, a big game pops up and he goes missing. The Euros should have sent alarm bells to Man Utd that this guy isnt a 100m player.

Bale, CR7, Kaka, Zidane, Figo, Shearer, all world record players, all had bad games occasionally, but they never went missing on the big stage. They could flop and play badly but they were never anonymous.

Truly class players don't go awol.

I agree that Pogba didn't have a particularly good game, but none of our players did. But don't agree with the many people who are labeling his performance as anonymous and joking about him going missing.

He led the team in number of touches of the ball and number of successful dribbles, hardly anonymous.

Yes he didn't have a good game for his standards, but very few of the players did. That happens in football, the team as a collective was outplayed.

In one way I'm taking it as a positive that many fans are disappointed and that we are being slagged by rivals after losing to arguably the favorites to win the league by a single goal, it's just my opinion but in my eyes it goes to show that we are truly back as title challengers after the last 3 years of struggling to get a top 4.

gosplan

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Touchy touchy there Pro F, seems like you are afraid what I'm saying may well be true.

I don't expect you to like it but denying Mourinhos behavior isn't going to magic it away. He's already showing all the signs that got him sacked from Chelsea last year.

I'm not even a Utd fan...and I hate Mourinho but you're being rediculous here.

What got him sacked from Chelsea last year was appalling results - so no, after 3 wins from 4, he's not showing signs of that.

Also Mourinho, at his most successful, had no problems saying players weren't doing enough - Duff comes to mind in that first spell at Chelsea. Jose said IIRC that he wasn't committed and aggressive enough post-injury. There's been many others too.

I too would love to see Jose fail but in the immortal words of Marlo Stanfield. 'You want it to be one way. But it's the other way.'

Flint Fredstone

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Pogba went missing in the business end of the Euros and again, a big game pops up and he goes missing. The Euros should have sent alarm bells to Man Utd that this guy isnt a 100m player.

Bale, CR7, Kaka, Zidane, Figo, Shearer, all world record players, all had bad games occasionally, but they never went missing on the big stage. They could flop and play badly but they were never anonymous.

Truly class players don't go awol.

Don't think you'll find anybody here that thinks it was a fair price. That's just what it cost to get the player wanted. Same as Juve had to pay an extortionate fee for Higuain, as did Real for James, as did Liverpool for Carroll, as did Chelsea for Torres, PSG for Luiz, yada yada yada.

Pogba is a world class midfielder. Whether it works out at United or not is another matter. Personally I think it will. He's played a handful of games in a team that's only finding its feet.

Give it a few months before trying to write him off ffs.

Flint Fredstone

Oh and stop giving your man the attention he craves...

sReq | uTeK

I have to say whilst I wanted Micky to start I do feel that this game so soon after international break wasn't the best place to do it. Lindegard, I'm perplexed. Didn't start all season and was just thrown in. Understand Martial hasn't been good but he was very good for France v Italy.

Fantastic technique from Ibra for his first but very disappointed with his finishing after that.
With the last kick if the first half he could have turned and taken his time to beat the defender on the line but he just snatched at it first time.

I'm disappointed but it's a different disappointment than i felt when we lost last year and that's a good thing. I'm back to expecting us to compete and jose is to thank for that.

I won't get into the negatives but the 2nd half and passion was lovely to see. Onwards and upwards

hufpc8w3adnk65

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I have to say whilst I wanted Micky to start I do feel that this game so soon after international break wasn't the best place to do it. Lindegard , I'm perplexed. Didn't start all season and was just thrown in. Understand Martial hasn't been good but he was very good for France v Italy.

Fantastic technique from Ibra for his first but very disappointed with his finishing after that.
With the last kick if the first half he could have turned and taken his time to beat the defender on the line but he just snatched at it first time.

I'm disappointed but it's a different disappointment than i felt when we lost last year and that's a good thing. I'm back to expecting us to compete and jose is to thank for that.

I won't get into the negatives but the 2nd half and passion was lovely to see. Onwards and upwards

Perplexed? You shouldn't be, he's a keeper he shouldn't be playing on the wing

jimmytwotimes 2013

Hope Mkhitaryan MRI doesn't show anything serious. He probably shudnt have played if he was still injured from int duty.

jayo26

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Pogba went missing in the business end of the Euros and again, a big game pops up and he goes missing. The Euros should have sent alarm bells to Man Utd that this guy isnt a 100m player.

Bale, CR7, Kaka, Zidane, Figo, Shearer, all world record players, all had bad games occasionally, but they never went missing on the big stage. They could flop and play badly but they were never anonymous.

Truly class players don't go awol.

Sorry but kaka went missing and never came back.

Pogba will be fine in long term the midfield will be shaped around him. He was better in second half when he had more freedom to get forward but the problem is rooney is in that space usually.

Lord TSC

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Oh and stop giving your man the attention he craves...

Please and thanks

PhlegmyMoses

What I didn't understand is why Mourinho didn't invert the triangle in midfield. By playing the way he did, he allowed KDB acres of space. We still don't really have a destroyer in midfield who could nullify players like him, but anybody would have been better than the absence of a midfield at times. He also should have used the pace of Martial and Rashford on the wings to worry their full backs and stop them overloading out wide. He did do this second half, to his credit.

As for their first goal, Bailly just misjudged going for a header, which happens from time to time, but Blind dropped far too deep because he knows if the ball goes behind he has no pace to recover. As a result, he is too deep to meet the ball and is easily rounded by KDB. This is a far bigger concern because it is not something he can really improve and we will see him lose out like this more times this season. There was also nobody tracking KDBs run from midfield, which was a theme yesterday as well.

Quandary

Would love to see a midfield 3 of Pogba, Fellaini, Herrera given a shot. Alternatively, a midfield 3 of Pogba, Fellaini, Blind might be interesting too.

We are after spending a world record fee on Pogba for a reason. The midfield needs to be built around him to give him as much freedom to join the attack as possible. Yesterday he seemed to be too deep, like he was for France at the Euros, and aside from some nice dribbles he had no impact on the game.

deaddonkey15

So who do people want to see start against Feyenoord and Watford next week? We'll finally have some midweek games for Jose to experiment a bit.

Lord TSC

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

So who do people want to see start against Feyenoord and Watford next week? We'll finally have some midweek games for Jose to experiment a bit.

Feyenoord, for me, should be something like...

Rashford
Martial - Mata - Mkhitaryan
Herrera - Schnederlin
Young - Smalling - Jones - Fous-Mensah
De Gea

Focusing on giving some other people some playing time. I put Mkhitaryan in cause he needs some gametime/confidence, and have Martial in for the same reason. Rashford is an obvious one.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Fellaini and Pogba is unlikely to work as a midfield duo against serious teams as they both wander and leave us exposed at the back.

Jose traditionally wud play someone like Mikel to hold the fort in big matches and play cagey, amazed he didn't yesterday.

As a few have said, KdeB played in between the lines yesterday and he too much room in the first half.

I would have thought that Schneiderlein wud have been a good, disciplined partner for Pogba but that doesn't seem to be in Jose's thinking so far.

Pro. F

Notorious wrote: »

You must be smoking something seriously strong if you think Rooney hasn't been poor recently. My dog would do a better job at keeping the ball.

Rooney has been excellent at keeping the ball so far this season. Average 86% pass accuracy on 35.14 passes per 90 minutes this season.

Adamocovic

Notorious wrote: »

You must be smoking something seriously strong if you think Rooney hasn't been poor recently. My dog would do a better job at keeping the ball.

Pro. F

StringerBell wrote: »

Blinds hesitancy and always eagerness to step back bit him in the ass for the first goal, even after Bailly's error he should have been decisive and met the ball.

Highlights a weakness in his game that many see anyway, the second goal is more of the same really, too slow getting out (I may be too harsh on him here, only going from the first watch, Ill see a replay at some point obv) speed of movement seems to be a problem with him not to mention being too happy to not actively engage and be too happy to let it come to him rather then meet the ball like a commanding cb, something his reading and positional play cover for most of the time but against the better teams and players it is going to rear its ugly head.

I believe you expressed similar yourself in the past? May have the wrong poster though

StringerBell wrote: »

Pretty sure he let the ball bounce, after Bailly had his **** up, rather then go and meet it. Allowing KDB to nip in and take it from under his nose, that is what I would have an issue with.

As I said, I only saw the goals the once, I will reassess maybe on further viewing.

On the first goal I don't think letting it bounce after Iheanacho headed it was an error. It was in the air for a split second, no time to read that and meet it before it hit the ground. And stepping off Bailly who was going for the header is what I'd want him to be doing there. He maybe could have reacted a fraction quicker as it came off Iheanacho and been meeting it at the same time as KDB did, but I think his position was correct and it was much easier for KDB as he was running on to it.

With the second goal, there's a replay from behind the goal where you can see that KDB's cut back and shot is done so quickly that there's no chance for Blind to step out.

I am critical of him at CB - I don't think he's good enough in the air and his pace could be a problem as well - but I wouldn't worry about him on those goals too much.

Notorious

Pro. F wrote: »

Rooney has been excellent at keeping the ball so far this season. Average 86% pass accuracy on 35.14 passes per 90 minutes this season.

I hate analysing stats because the game isn't all about statistics. Team average is 85%, so we really cannot expect any less. He has given away balls when taking on players.

According to Squawka he took four corners yesterday, none of which connected with a United player. He completed 23 passes over 90 mins, compared with Herrera who completed 21 passes in 45 mins.

Pro. F

Notorious wrote: »

I hate analysing stats because the game isn't all about statistics. Team average is 85%, so we really cannot expect any less. He has given away balls when taking on players.

Obviously the game isn't all about statistics, but they can provide evidence on lots of things.

Of course we can expect less. He's been playing as a forward, forwards do not tend to have as high pass accuracy as the deeper players because they are more isolated and trying riskier passes. You should be comparing his passing numbers to other forwards, not a team as a whole.

Notorious wrote: »

According to Squawka he took four corners yesterday, none of which connected with a United player. He completed 23 passes over 90 mins, compared with Herrera who completed 21 passes in 45 mins.

I don't see the problem with the corners. The are obviously an extremely low quality chance of completing a pass and have nothing to do with keeping possession.

Herrera was playing as central midfielder. Rooney was playing as a 10 and then as a winger. You aren't comparing like with like.