Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

Backstreet Moyes

bangkok wrote: »

against watford i would love to see this team

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de gea

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Valencia

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Bailly----Smalling

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Shaw

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Carrick or Schneiderlain

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Mkhitarayan----Herrera

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Pogba

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Martial

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Ibrahimovic

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Why would Mourinho drop our best midfielder so far this season and arguably our best performer?

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

Some people have decided that number 10 is all about creative passing and through balls. But it simply isn't. Goal scoring is hugely important too. In Mourinho's teams workrate and movement are also very important.

Ozil reperesnts - maybe to an extreme - one type of 10. But that isn't the only type of 10 that can be good.

This is true, as their are different types of strikers, wingers etc. Least it not be forgotten Fellaini had a spell at 10 with Everton.

I don't know if there is a correct metric for what constitutes the requirement for our #10, be it for a 4-2-3-1, or a Mourinho team, but I'd probably expect a #10 in a 4-2-3-1 to be playing advanced up the pitch knitting attacking passages and to provide direct support to the lone striker.

So I guess I'd expect goals, assists, chance creation and dictating the flow of our attacking play, in the general.

TheDoc

Nuts102 wrote: »

Why would Mourinho drop our best midfielder so far this season and arguably our best performer?

I think it's also quick to drop Blind.

From reading the initial reactions to the goals, to then watching the match recording myself, thought some Blind finger pointing was extremely harsh on both goals.

I'm sure he expected Bailly to deal with the header, caught surprised when he didn't, then De Bruyne coming out of eyeshot to knick it with his foot near enough his face.

The team as a whole just struggled defensively. But considering it has done so well for so long defensively, it could arguably have just been an off day, which can happen. The team was operating that first half as a counter attacking threat which was disheartening to see and I guess a fear but somewhat acceptance with Mourinho this will happen from time to time.

Valencia again somewhat faltered when faced against proper opposition. So many times he just didn't know what to do in terms of position when City were coming down that flank and he didnt seem to be organising anything with Mhyki or Pogba/Fellaini.

It's an away game, so doubt it will be too drastic. He will probably stick with 4-2-3-1 to start with Pogba and Fellaini in midfield, and I'd say Lingard will make way for Rashford. Mhkyi could likely be removed for Mata.

Assuming someone doesn't put in a serious case on Thursday.

In the grand scheme of things the Rooney dilema will probably work itself out, and be an easy enough fix for Mourinho. If he stops delivering to his standard, it's just a case of dropping him and trying out others.

What might shape to be more of a headache for him is how to utilise Pogba.

***MASSIVE CONTEXT ALERT*****
It's very early days, and while I'd have only seen Pogba for Juve in the CL and France at the Euros and some other games sporadically, I've kinda been a bit underwhelmed with him. I was expecting a much more marauding, creative, dominating presence. I can see glimpes of what may yet come, but it feels like a more pressing issue over Rooney, is getting something that makes Pogba really tick. Be it a different formation or a change in midfield roles.

Am I wrong in assuming he is much more threatening and damaging in the final third, then in our third playing deep?

adox

Surprised so many were happy with Pogbas display. I thought he was poor overall. Very uninvolved, a couple of flashes of what he's capable of but thought the game largely passed him by.

Having bought him Utd and Mourhino are going to have to figure out how to use him properly. He looks like the sort of player who should easily be able to play a commanding role in a midfield two but rarely seems to.

Lord TSC

adox wrote: »

Surprised so many were happy with Pogbas display. I thought he was poor overall. Very uninvolved, a couple of flashes of what he's capable of but thought the game largely passed him by.

Having bought him Utd and Mourhino are going to have to figure out how to use him properly. He looks like the sort of player who should easily be able to play a commanding role in a midfield two but rarely seems to.

It was said constantly through the Euros that he doesn't work to full efficiency in a midfield two. He needs to be part of a three man midfield or further forward as a #10. Of course, that means changing you-know-who's role and position in the team.

Flint Fredstone

adox wrote: »

Surprised so many were happy with Pogbas display. I thought he was poor overall. Very uninvolved, a couple of flashes of what he's capable of but thought the game largely passed him by.

Having bought him Utd and Mourhino are going to have to figure out how to use him properly. He looks like the sort of player who should easily be able to play a commanding role in a midfield two but rarely seems to.

He wasn't great or anything but some people are making out he was anonymous and Fernandinho had him in his pocket. He tried to make things happen and was getting hacked out of it. There wasn't the movement ahead of him and he ended up trying to drive forward himself too much.

Flint Fredstone

A year ago today... Good times

https://twitter.com/dantosic/status/775260686620426240

bangkok

Nuts102 wrote: »

Why would Mourinho drop our best midfielder so far this season and arguably our best performer?

to make the TEAM better.

we wont see the best of pogba if he plays in a midfield 2 with fellaini imo as fellaini isnt as good defensively as either carrick or schneiderlain

adox

bangkok wrote: »

to make the TEAM better.

we wont see the best of pogba if he plays in a midfield 2 with fellaini imo as fellaini isnt as good defensively as either carrick or schneiderlain

He is certainly proving himself to be at least as good defensively as Carrick(who has looked past it these last 12 months anyway) and certainly better than Schneiderlin who has been a no show every time he has been picked.

The obvious solution is to just add another midfielder to Fellaini and Pogba to make it a three but your agenda driven bias of course has come up with an excuse to move Fellaini out of the team.

bangkok

adox wrote: »

He is certainly proving himself to be at least as good defensively as Carrick(who has looked past it these last 12 months anyway) and certainly better than Schneiderlin who has been a no show every time he has been picked.

The obvious solution is to just add another midfielder to Fellaini and Pogba to make it a three but your agenda driven bias of course has come up with an excuse to move Fellaini out of the team.

it was only his first season with united last season in a season where the majority of our players were awful. i think he is a class player and he will eventually force his way into the team.

adox

bangkok wrote: »

it was only his first season with united last season in a season where the majority of our players were awful. i think he is a class player and he will eventually force his way into the team.

Let him force away.

It would be ludicrous to parachute him into the team and drop Fellaini.

bucketybuck

adox wrote: »

He is certainly proving himself to be at least as good defensively as Carrick(who has looked past it these last 12 months anyway) and certainly better than Schneiderlin who has been a no show every time he has been picked.

He has 5 whole minutes of gametime this season, I don't know why you have such a hate for Schneiderlin but it seems overly harsh. Van Gaal sat him on the bench often as not so he is just one of many misused by the previous manager, at this point I don't know how anybody can really judge the player at all.

A 5 minute sub appearance is certainly not enough to judge him on this season, thats for sure.

adox

bucketybuck wrote: »

He has 5 whole minutes of gametime this season, I don't know why you have such a hate for Schneiderlin but it seems overly harsh. Van Gaal sat him on the bench often as not so he is just one of many misused by the previous manager, at this point I don't know how anybody can really judge the player at all.

A 5 minute sub appearance is certainly not enough to judge him on this season, thats for sure.

I'm obviously basing it on his time at Utd so far.
I think he's been a huge disappointment since he arrived. Obviously the Van Gaal factor has to be taken into account but I think it's a cop out to say you can't judge a player because he played under Van Gaal.

I hope he comes good. I really do. I am worried about Utds midfield and the more options they have the better. Anytime I have seen him play for Utd he has been tentative and games have passed him by.

LuckyGent88

Carragher ripping into Pogba on MNF. Says he actually felt awful sorry for Fellaini. Had no support in centre mid at all.

Hard to disagree with him on the clips he showed. Looked like Pogba wasn't suited to two in midfield at all.

Liam O

adox wrote: »

I'm obviously basing it on his time at Utd so far.
I think he's been a huge disappointment since he arrived. Obviously the Van Gaal factor has to be taken into account but I think it's a cop out to say you can't judge a player because he played under Van Gaal.

I hope he comes good. I really do. I am worried about Utds midfield and the more options they have the better. Anytime I have seen him play for Utd he has been tentative and games have passed him by.

For a supposed defensive midfielder he's not very good at defending. It was the same at Southampton he needed Wanyama mopping up behind him to look good. I had high hopes for him but he looks like a mid table player who was raised out of his depth last year.

deaddonkey15

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

I'm not talking about Rooney. Would you stop crying about him and dragging him into every other player discussion.

Oh and Rooney shouldn't be talked about in the same breath as Özil in that position.

No but your one of the chief offenders for making him out to be worse than he is, exactly what you suggested people were doing with Pogba. Just pointing out your double standards.

Flint Fredstone

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

No but your one of the chief offenders for making him out to be worse than he is, exactly what you suggested people were doing with Pogba. Just pointing out your double standards.

I said I don't think he was as bad as some people were making out. If you want to counter that or give an opinion on it then fire away. Don't just "wah wah, poor Rooney"

It's only your opinion that I'm making him out to be worse than he is. You're making him out to be better IMO.

PhlegmyMoses

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

Carragher ripping into Pogba on MNF. Says he actually felt awful sorry for Fellaini. Had no support in centre mid at all.

Hard to disagree with him on the clips he showed. Looked like Pogba wasn't suited to two in midfield at all.

And this is the reality of Paul Pogba. Anybody who was expecting different hasn't seen much of him since he went to Juve. Granted, I have only watched ~20 games but it's clear as day that he needs to be given a licence to do his thing, with two more diligent players holding position or dictating possession. He will be a great force for us when we eventually decide to build the team around him, but he will struggle at times until we do this. He'll paper over the cracks at times by smashing in a worldie or beating a few men before delivering a telling pass, but we won't get the best out of him until we acknowledge his strengths and weaknesses.

Obviously on a lesser scale, but it reminds me of the Vardy to Arsenal talk this summer. He is doing on well at Leicester because the teams style greatly suits him. You can't just parachute him into a team like Arsenal and expect to reap rewards. Same applies to Pogba and I feel like his transfer fee clouded many people's opinions.

deaddonkey15

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

I said I don't think he was as bad as some people were making out. If you want to counter that or give an opinion on it then fire away. Don't just "wah wah, poor Rooney"

It's only your opinion that I'm making him out to be worse than he is. You're making him out to be better IMO.

I had already given my opinion on Pogba prior to your hypocritical post.

Lukekul

Video in Question

Here's a summary of Rooney's positive play.

I still find him very frustrating to watch but some nice bits here

Flint Fredstone

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I had already given my opinion on Pogba prior to your hypocritical post.

WTF are you on about? There's nothing hypocritical about it. I said I didn't think he was as bad as others made out, I didn't even say he was good and I'm not obsessively stalking the forum waiting to pounce on any post that says he didn't play well. That's all I have a problem with when it comes to the Rooney debate.

If someone thinks he was sh*te, that's fine. I'm ok with that.

Headshot

Moyes wont be around for much longer

Lord TSC

Down to 4th

#SackJose

Trigger

This is some collapse

J. Marston

Moyes is going down with Sunderland.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

Funny.

Really? I wasn't trying to be, it was a valid point.

As someone who constantly jumps on other peoples posts for the most minor indescretions and then proceeds to educate them on how wrong they were or how they have their facts wrong I'd have thought you'd have at least got the goal tally thus far of the player your trying to defend correct.

You wouldn't want to seem like a hypocrite now would you.

Mitch Connor

Kind of feel sorry for Moyes - he had built himself a good reputation at Everton, they were a good solid side, capable of nice football and a bstrd to play against most of the time. His career has gone to absolute pot though. Failed at United, failed in Spain and Sunderland has started an absolute nightmare for him. His rep is taking a beating and if he can't turn Sunderland around (its still early days after all) you have to wonder how he can look to rebuild his career.

Obviously he has made good money and has got nice payoffs from his failures so he ain't going to the poor house, but he strikes as a man of great pride, and these failures will be hurting him hard.

Lord TSC

Picking Sunderland was a stupid decision on his part; they are constant relegation candidates, and it's not entirely a managerial problem. He really needed a solid midtable team with no delusions of grandeur.

Unearthly

The standard of managers has gone up a lot to in the Prem. Reality is the majority of managers now in the league are tactically several levels above him

PhlegmyMoses

Lord TSC wrote: »

Picking Sunderland was a stupid decision on his part; they are constant relegation candidates, and it's not entirely a managerial problem. He really needed a solid midtable team with no delusions of grandeur.

Should have gone for Villa imo. They have spent well and have a rich owner now, but Di Matteo is not a real manager imo, and their start belies the quality in that squad.

bangkok

adox wrote: »

I'm obviously basing it on his time at Utd so far.
I think he's been a huge disappointment since he arrived. Obviously the Van Gaal factor has to be taken into account but I think it's a cop out to say you can't judge a player because he played under Van Gaal.

I hope he comes good. I really do. I am worried about Utds midfield and the more options they have the better. Anytime I have seen him play for Utd he has been tentative and games have passed him by.

He is only in his 2nd season. Fellaini was awful for 2 seasons. Few decent games last season and started this season well. Herrera schneiderlain and pogba in midfield would be class to see and let pogba do his thing then

bucketybuck

At half time Moyes was getting praise for having Sunderland well drilled and looking like a proper team for once. At full time he is already a failure and they are going down. :pac:

Its far too early to judge his time at Sunderland, especially when its likely that Sunderland would lose games no matter who the manager was.

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

Really? I wasn't trying to be, it was a valid point.

As someone who constantly jumps on other peoples posts for the most minor indescretions and then proceeds to educate them on how wrong they were or how they have their facts wrong I'd have thought you'd have at least got the goal tally thus far of the player your trying to defend correct.

You wouldn't want to seem like a hypocrite now would you.

I didn't mention his goal tally in that post, I mentioned his goal scoring rate. You are just making a dumb mistake about how the English language works.

Robson99

bangkok wrote: »

He is only in his 2nd season. Fellaini was awful for 2 seasons. Few decent games last season and started this season well. Herrera schneiderlain and pogba in midfield would be class to see and let pogba do his thing then

Would also like to see that 3 in the middle. Pogba and Herrera have the quality going forward

Vertigo100

Pro. F wrote: »

I didn't mention his goal tally in that post, I mentioned his goal scoring rate. You are just making a dumb mistake about how the English language works.

What's the weather like up there in your ivory tower?

adox

bangkok wrote: »

He is only in his 2nd season. Fellaini was awful for 2 seasons. Few decent games last season and started this season well. Herrera schneiderlain and pogba in midfield would be class to see and let pogba do his thing then

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make?

You want Schneiderlin in the team now in a midfield three in place of Fellaini, yet you haven't denied any of my assertions that he has been poor since signing.

bangkok

adox wrote: »

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make?

You want Schneiderlin in the team now in a midfield three in place of Fellaini, yet you haven't denied any of my assertions that he has been poor since signing.

He was poor along with the majority of our squad last season, but doesn't mean he still isn't a class player. Look at how good he was with Southampton before he signed, there is a class player there, his confidence was probably at an all time low last season

adox

Just seem that Lukaku scored. Guy in work told me earlier that a friend of his did a free Paddy Power bet at the weekend picking 8 anytime goal scorers.

7 of them came up at the weekend and he was waiting on Lukaku to make it a straight 8! Said there was a six figure sum riding on it.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

I didn't mention his goal tally in that post, I mentioned his goal scoring rate. You are just making a dumb mistake about how the English language works.

No I didn't, but you did make a dumb mistake on both how the English language works and Rooneys goal scoring so far.

You said

Rooney, so far under Jose, is creating chances, getting shots and scoring goals

The "goals" you refer to would be Rooneys goal tally "so far under Jose". Easy to understand except for you apparently beause Rooney hasn't scored goals under Jose, that would imply more than one goal which isn't the case. Ronney's goal tally so far is one goal.

Its amazing how you can't admit when your wrong, your desperate ned for the last word and as usual the insults, accusing someone of dumb mistakes when your clearly in the wrong. All your best qualities on display.

Pro. F

Vertigo100 wrote: »

What's the weather like up there in your ivory tower?

Oh that's right, when someone incorrectly tries to criticise the placement of a single "s" in my post and then goes off on one about my posting style, making things up about how I post, I'm supposed to just leave it. It's Vertigo, here to set the thread to rights. Thank goodness.

adox

bangkok wrote: »

He was poor along with the majority of our squad last season, but doesn't mean he still isn't a class player. Look at how good he was with Southampton before he signed, there is a class player there, his confidence was probably at an all time low last season

I haven't denied that he may come good. I still don't get your logic that you want to put him into the team in a three man midfield ahead of Fellaini, who has been Utds defensive midfielder this season and probably Utds best player.

It just seems a ludicrous thing to think, even accounting for your Fellaini bias in the negative. Surely you can see past that and rationally see that suggesting Fellaini should be dropped for the next game with Schneiderlin replacing him in a midfield three, is for the good of the team in no way makes sense.

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

No I didn't, but you did make a dumb mistake on both how the English language works and Rooneys goal scoring so far.

You said

"Rooney, so far under Jose, is creating chances, getting shots and scoring goals"

The "goals" you refer to would be Rooneys goal tally "so far under Jose". Easy to understand except for you apparently beause Rooney hasn't scored goals under Jose, that would imply more than one goal which isn't the case. Ronney's goal tally so far is one goal.

Its amazing how you can't admit when your wrong, your desperate ned for the last word and as usual the insults, accusing someone of dumb mistakes when your clearly in the wrong. All your best qualities on display.

You didn't quote the whole sentence.

This is the whole sentence:

Pro. F wrote: »

Rooney, so far under Jose, is creating chances, getting shots and scoring goals at a rate at least as good as any of those would in this team.

Relevant bit that you failed to quote highlighted.

Now let's break it down:

Rooney is scoring goals at a rate of 0.25 per 90 minutes. <This is correct
Rooney is scoring goal at a rate of 0.25 per 90 minutes. <This is incorrect

Basic English.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

He was poor along with the majority of our squad last season, but doesn't mean he still isn't a class player. Look at how good he was with Southampton before he signed, there is a class player there, his confidence was probably at an all time low last season

Schneiderlin wasn't a DM with Southampton.. he played box to box while Waynama sat deep so I don't get where you are coming from with putting him in where Fellaini is playing. He would more than likely be a replacement for Pogba.

Adamocovic

What happened to that thread dedicated for the Rooney he who shall not be named talk/debate?

I'm all for debates about players and not saying people shouldn't since that is one of things this thread is for, but at times it does feel like you are just an observer to two people or so having a full blown argument, it strays from even the original topic to the point where people are criticising individual posting styles, mistakes or just having digs.

Maybe I am remembering it wrong but it seems worse this season than previous, despite the higher optimism this season.

DARK-KNIGHT

jesus the bickering here would make the sane look to reddit.

Pro. F

astradave wrote: »

Schneiderlin wasn't a DM with Southampton.. he played box to box while Waynama sat deep so I don't get where you are coming from with putting him in where Fellaini is playing. He would more than likely be a replacement for Pogba.

That's not true. They both took turns defending and going forward and there were plenty of games when Wanayam didn't play and Schneiderlin was the DM, including the season before Wanayama signed for the club.

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

Schneiderlin wasn't a DM with Southampton.. he played box to box while Waynama sat deep so I don't get where you are coming from with putting him in where Fellaini is playing. He would more than likely be a replacement for Pogba.

Majority of games I seen Morgan play he was the defensive midfielder and that is the position he was signed to play for united as well

The_Kew_Tour

I still think Morgan should be given a chance next to Pogba. I might get it wrong but I think it's best patnership we could have

Vertigo100

Pro. F wrote: »

Oh that's right, when someone incorrectly tries to criticise the placement of a single "s" in my post and then goes off on one about my posting style, making things up about how I post, I'm supposed to just leave it. It's Vertigo, here to set the thread to rights. Thank goodness.

I'm not putting anything to rights but the way you speak down to people makes your posting style very irritating. You have no God given right to call people dumb or mock their opinions because they don't match yours.

You would swear you were sir Alex himself the way you go on.

You are wrong about Wayne Rooney as well. He needs to be dropped and the team changed to a 433.

bangkok

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I still think Morgan should be given a chance next to Pogba. I might get it wrong but I think it's best patnership we could have

I think we could see it soon. Herrera in there as well, mkhitarayan, Ibra and one of martial or rashford ahead