Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

One incident. One. You said he doesn't have any work rate. One lapse from less than 100% effort does not lend credence to that statement.

That was a major one, majority of games he played in last season he was awful, no work rate and that's why he didn't make a name for himself in first team. Barely in any of mourinhos squads this season and no longer in a very poor Holland squad, mostly down to his poor attitude

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

I think more people took umbrage to a penalty he gave away or some of the free kicks he conceded when in a defensive position.

An attacking creative player being asked to track back and defend, did it more often then not, but then pillared when said winger makes bad defensive tackles. Plenty of times he won tackles or provided proper cover, but nobody is going to go overboard on that praise.

Not even entertaining him potentially costing us a top four finish. If Van Gaal kept him confident and continuing form from PSV, he could have been good enough to have us challenging for the title.

He barely played enough to influence any outcome on the teams position, so get a grip.

29 premier league appearances last season. It's not even his tracking back, lazy passes to team mates giving the ball away numerous times.
Thinks he's a superstar already, far far from it

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

That was a major one, majority of games he played in last season he was awful, no work rate and that's why he didn't make a name for himself in first team. Barely in any of mourinhos squads this season and no longer in a very poor Holland squad, mostly down to his poor attitude

He wasn't awful in terms of effort in the majority of his games last season. His effort was fine. His inability to dribble past opposition players has been his main problem, and his attacking play has been plenty bad enough on its own to explain his falling down the pecking order.

Maybe he does have a bad attitude, but from how he has performed on the pitch there is no evidence of that. And his fancy hats and cars is the most tenuous of off-field evidence in that regard.

ericzeking

TheDoc wrote: »

jayo26 wrote: »

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/09/13/paul-pogba-said-to-be-inconsolable-after-eamon-dunphy-criticism/?utm_source=WWN_Facebook_Page&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=Social_Link&utm_content=Article

One of my mates shared what he was saying into the chat group.

If there is anything more irrelevant to United in terms of "punditry" it's that moron making comment on United :rolleyes:

For all the sometimes outlandish headlines the press can do about players "knicking a living" there is no more personification for that headline then that horrendous cretin.

That's show business baby

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

29 premier league appearances last season. It's not even his tracking back, lazy passes to team mates giving the ball away numerous times.
Thinks he's a superstar already, far far from it

Made 16 starts, and the second half of the season was a write off for him. Van Gaal definitely didn't act like the "father figure" that some Holland based journalists pointed as a big factor for why the player stayed with PSV and then joined United the following season. Wrote him off way too easily for my liking.

To be honest I think your taking your lead on his poor attitude from the papers, and speculative reports that Giggs had taken issue with him, when quotes from manager and player paint a different picture.

As Pro.F said above, the stuff about his off field dress and car choice is just lazy sensationalist journalism that the dribblers buy into .For other case in point, see Raheem Sterling over the summer.

Fair enough if you buy into that stuff I guess?

KombuchaMshroom

bangkok wrote: »

Chelsea away, on as a sub, sloppy pass and doesn't make a 100% effort to get back and Chelsea score. Cost us points and perhaps a top 4 finish

Arsenal at home, hanging onto a 3-2 win, absolutely bossed it back in our corner flag to relieve the pressure. One example of him doing the exact opposite.

A lot of the Memphis talk is all hearsay, and irrelvant nonsense to be honest. The talk about his choice of clothes or cars is beyond ridiculous, who cares?
Talks of him having a bad attitude, a big ego etc. where is the actual evidence for this?

Here's what Jose said less than a month ago:

“Depay is very much part of my squad,” Mourinho said. “I know you look at the last match and he was not even on the bench but in September we have the EFL Cup, Europa League and Premier League, so that will be the end of the frustration for the players not being selected at the moment. I was impressed with Depay at the last World Cup and that was two years ago when he was a very young kid.

“I watched him many times at PSV, and having that player in mind, I want to keep him. Especially as I see a good boy, a good professional. You can see him driving a nice car and think his mind is not on football but that is not the case. I don’t care what people think, I believe in him. He is frustrated with what happened last season when he lost all his confidence but he will be back.”

Highlighted the parts I think are particularly important.

Memphis will no doubt get his chances under Jose (probably beginning Thursday night), and here's hoping he takes them, I still think he has it in him to be awesome.
We saw glimpses in Europe last year, and around late January early Feb when LVG gave him some game time.
With some confidence the man could be lethal.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

He wasn't awful in terms of effort in the majority of his games last season. His effort was fine. His inability to dribble past opposition players has been his main problem, and his attacking play has been plenty bad enough on its own to explain his falling down the pecking order.

Maybe he does have a bad attitude, but from how he has performed on the pitch there is no evidence of that. And his fancy hats and cars is the most tenuous of off-field evidence in that regard.

Time will tell, hope I am wrong but cannot see it. Just doesn't have what it takes to succeed at the very top imo

Jayop

So for the Feyenoord game this week.

Game being away is a bit of a prick and we have a game early on Sunday at 12 noon in London. The game after that is also away at Northampton so 3 away games in 6 days. I'd go for lots of changes for this one. The players looked wrecked on Saturday in the second half and burning them out for a game like this would be stupid. Jose doesn't rotate much and that's great for building team understanding of each other but can lead to players being ****ed.

Degea
Damian Smalling Jones Rojo
Herrera Carrick
Mkhitaryan Mata Memphis
Rashford​

The back four looked completely screwed at the end of the last game, like really tired and they need a break. Herrera only played half a game so him and Carrick in the middle. Either Lingard or Mkhitaryan on one of the wings with Memphis on the other. He's at home against these Dutch sides and his best games for United came against them last year. Mata has played plenty of football and should start with Rashford up front. Bring young lads for the bench and give a few guys a nice break.

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

I find it strange you didnt rate carrick ever yet you think depay could do the same for us that hazard did for Chelsea!!

Depay was a van gaal flop, won't be at the club next season imo

Yet you stick up for Morgan to be put back in the team ahead of Fellaini in the premeirleague

Just a bit late to the party...

I thought the team worked well when they finally decided to join the game around the 40th minute on Saturday, but the game was all but out of reach by then. Up until that point, it was bleak viewing as a United fan. Objectively, City were beautiful in the first half, but when United did get on the ball there were mistakes aplenty. There were times when it seemed that this group of United players had not played together before. Undoubtedly, nerves played some part in that.

Why did Jose feel the need to change a winning team to the extent that he did for the derby though? I mean bringing in Lingard out of nowhere and Mkhitaryan, who so far has only gotten substitute minutes. I get that Jesse has history in the derby and in big games to an extent, but he hasn't played regularly for the team so far this season. I get that Mkhitaryan is more than likely Jose's pick for the long-term in the first 11, but after giving him a gradual introduction to the English game, to throw him in following International duty where he picked up an injury was questionable.

Jose admitted after the match that he thought these players could do a specific job for him and he took the blame as manager for going that route and it not working out. What was the job? To run like whores once we got a rare chance on the break cause he expected City to come out firing? For their defensive strengths over the dropped Mata and Martial? Ok, fair enough, but after the run of wins we've had with the bit of momentum built (yes, I know it's only Bournemouth, Southampton and Hull) and the fact that the derby was at home, would it not have been wise to at least leave Mata or Martial in there for consistency/stability? I'm not arguing that individually they are better/worse than Mkhi and Jesse, just that this was not the game to try out a new line-up or tinker with a working formula. Even if that was to try to counter City's threat.

I would have liked to see United come out and try to dictate the match themselves in the first half. Jose instead set-up the team on how he reckoned City would play. Let's defend, try to nick something on the counter - that's the way United came out to play the other day, and suffered badly for it because of the players used to employ these tactics. Jose's had plenty of success with that method in the past, and maybe could have had it on Saturday, but the players weren't there for it to happen in the first half.

I have no doubt that Mourinho will bring success back to the club, but I don't doubt that there will be some mistakes made in the meantime. Saturday's derby line-up was his first IMO. This isn't simply 20/20 hindsight, I was left a bit wide-eyed when I saw both Lingard and Mkhitaryan on the teamsheet before the match. I like both players, but there is a time and a place to introduce them to the 11, like this Thursday's Europa game.

We have a good squad, Jose should be able to pick and choose from it and drop in/take out whoever he needs to suit each game, eventually. I just don't feel we're there yet, with a lot of that squad lacking in match fitness and game-time because of how little games have been played so far. While it wasn't anywhere near 'Nick Powel appears in the CL v Wolfsburg' levels of WTF, starting Lingard and Mkhitaryan in the derby was odd. It would be interesting to see how the first half would have went if we had a fit 11 against City's.

Who knows - We still might have gotten schooled. The manager took a gamble and it didn't pay off. If there was a match that United could afford to lose and learn from, it was this one. United got the measure of City on Saturday, deserved title favourites, and what exactly it will take to compete with them for the title. Also, we the fans got a measure of the spirit in this United team. That second half was very promising. Right, United still lost and it hurt, but I've seen about 20 losses over the last few seasons which hurt a lot more when it looked like the players had just accepted the defeat with many minutes left in the match.

Speaking of which, see that final ball Herrera snapped into the box from the halfway line at the dying seconds on Saturday? That's the kind of thing I'm talking about, last season that ball would have been played back to a CB or the keeper. This season though, every player except the keeper and the man on the ball is in the opposition box trying to get something from the game. This passion and determination wasn't good enough in this game obviously, but is very promising for the future.

bangkok

Deleted User wrote: »

Yet you stick up for Morgan to be put back in the team ahead of Fellaini in the premeirleague

He has been a class player in the premier league already, depay is coming from a poor league with a chip on his shoulder. He is done nothing to suggest he should be in the team

Jayop

bangkok wrote: »

He has been a class player in the premier league already, depay is coming from a poor league with a chip on his shoulder. He is done nothing to suggest he should be in the team

I really don't see the chip on his shoulder. To me he looks the definition of a young man struggling with confidence, and if he had a chip on his shoulder that would indicate he's a cocky git who was full of confidence in himself.

Cookie_Dough

bangkok wrote: »

He has been a class player in the premier league already, depay is coming from a poor league with a chip on his shoulder. He is done nothing to suggest he should be in the team

Last season on the pitch he may not but in fairness, we don't know what he's doing in training. José obviously sees something in him after his comments, I also would have expected he would have been sold/frozen out if Mou had no intention of using him at all.

I hope he gets his chance on Thursday and has a good game, hopefully it would boost his confidence and get him some game time.

Jayop

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

Last season on the pitch he may not but in fairness, we don't know what he's doing in training. José obviously sees something in him after his comments, I also would have expected he would have been sold/frozen out if Mou had no intention of using him at all.

I hope he gets his chance on Thursday and has a good game, hopefully it would boost his confidence and get him some game time.

What did Jose say Cookie?

Cookie_Dough

Jayop wrote: »

What did Jose say Cookie?

It was posted here-

KombuchaMshroom wrote: »

Arsenal at home, hanging onto a 3-2 win, absolutely bossed it back in our corner flag to relieve the pressure. One example of him doing the exact opposite.

A lot of the Memphis talk is all hearsay, and irrelvant nonsense to be honest. The talk about his choice of clothes or cars is beyond ridiculous, who cares?
Talks of him having a bad attitude, a big ego etc. where is the actual evidence for this?

Here's what Jose said less than a month ago:

“Depay is very much part of my squad,” Mourinho said. “I know you look at the last match and he was not even on the bench but in September we have the EFL Cup, Europa League and Premier League, so that will be the end of the frustration for the players not being selected at the moment. I was impressed with Depay at the last World Cup and that was two years ago when he was a very young kid.

“I watched him many times at PSV, and having that player in mind, I want to keep him. Especially as I see a good boy, a good professional. You can see him driving a nice car and think his mind is not on football but that is not the case. I don’t care what people think, I believe in him. He is frustrated with what happened last season when he lost all his confidence but he will be back.”

Highlighted the parts I think are particularly important.

Memphis will no doubt get his chances under Jose (probably beginning Thursday night), and here's hoping he takes them, I still think he has it in him to be awesome.
We saw glimpses in Europe last year, and around late January early Feb when LVG gave him some game time.
With some confidence the man could be lethal.

At least if he plays on Thursday it will be against a Dutch team so he will be back to his "poor league" level as bangkok said :rolleyes:

I know he hasn't done much and I think LvG shattered his confidence as he came in (most likely IMO) expecting to play every game as VG rated him highly so I'm sure his ego was dented/his confidence and form dropped so he was just phoning it it. He's still only young too and I don't think we should rate and judge players based on Van Gaal's seasons. As others have said, I think this season should be a clean slate for everybody.

Edit: to be fair to bangkok, the phrase he used was poor league rather than crap league, apologies

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

He has been a class player in the premier league already, depay is coming from a poor league with a chip on his shoulder. He is done nothing to suggest he should be in the team

So neither in 15 months has done anything of note on the footbal pitch but you want gone from the club and the other replacing our best performng midfielder.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

Time will tell, hope I am wrong but cannot see it. Just doesn't have what it takes to succeed at the very top imo

Tbh I actually don't think it's particularly likely he will succeed at the very top. I guess Martial and Rashord are competing with him for minutes while playing the types of roles (striker or attacking winger) that he needs to play. So that is going to hold him back. But it wouldn't surprise me if he has a good career, near the top. Say, jumping between starting for good second tier teams (like Sevilla) and being in the squads of bigger clubs.

I just think it's his skill-set and the very particular role he needs that's going to be the thing to hold him back.

TheDoc

KombuchaMshroom wrote: »

Arsenal at home, hanging onto a 3-2 win, absolutely bossed it back in our corner flag to relieve the pressure. One example of him doing the exact opposite.

Nah man

Van Gaal flop

Your Airbag

TheDoc wrote: »

Nah man

Van Gaal flop

In all fairness random pieces of showboating, sometimes unnecessarily and meaningless are not plus points when making a case for Depay, especially when its suspected he has a prima-donna look at me attitude. You can find stepovers and flicks at your local 5-a-side

Jayop

Your Airbag wrote: »

In all fairness random pieces of showboating, sometimes unnecessarily and meaningless are not plus points when making a case for Depay, especially when its suspected he has a prima-donna look at me attitude. You can find stepovers and flicks at your local 5-a-side

The first one was maybe pure showboating, but the two in the second clip were effective plays that brought the team forward. It's not like he was dancing around the ball.

TheDoc

Your Airbag wrote: »

In all fairness random pieces of showboating, sometimes unnecessarily and meaningless are not plus points when making a case for Depay, especially when its suspected he has a prima-donna look at me attitude. You can find stepovers and flicks at your local 5-a-side

You know players having an attitude isn't exactly a bad thing as long as it's ethical and productive.

I've no issue with Depay if he was an utterly outrageous ****, if it meant seeing that more often, or him ripping defenders to bits.

anyway, it's more so labelling him a flop after a tough season where the entire team offensively was dire, under a manager who appeared to hamstring offensive players, is just ridiculous.

Jayop

TBf these three games are made for him now. Hopefully does well in the first one if he gets teh start and pushes on from there. He's so strong that if Jose can get him performing well you could see him being the ideal player for him. Great going forward and a bull to get around.

Your Airbag

Jayop wrote: »

The first one was maybe pure showboating, but the two in the second clip were effective plays that brought the team forward. It's not like he was dancing around the ball.

Actually I'd say the first one was necessary as the defender was close to him and taking down the high ball may have given the defender a chance to intercept. The second bit of action in the second clip is showboating imo but it works out.

TheDoc wrote: »

You know players having an attitude isn't exactly a bad thing as long as it's ethical and productive.

I've no issue with Depay if he was an utterly outrageous ****, if it meant seeing that more often, or him ripping defenders to bits.

anyway, it's more so labelling him a flop after a tough season where the entire team offensively was dire, under a manager who appeared to hamstring offensive players, is just ridiculous.

And I haven't written him off just yet but these clips of showboating are not going to prove him to be good enough or UTD standard. We can post gifs or his terrible header back to DDG away to stoke or him botching a simple pass away to Chelsea and then not bothering to chase back, in both cases costing us goals.

He has talent and skill but you need much more than that at the top level. Overall so far Depay has been sub-par, lets see if he can turn it around under Jose.

TheDoc

Jayop wrote: »

The first one was maybe pure showboating, but the two in the second clip were effective plays that brought the team forward. It's not like he was dancing around the ball.

It was him at his outrageous, extravagant best. Sure it was some **** bag team, but he tried some stuff early, grew in confidence and then just turned into a monster.

Also the gif was just a pop at him being called a flop, obviously it wasn't a serious point of "omg start him" :rolleyes:


*In saying that, I remember Neymar did some standing cross leg control in the 89th minute when Barca were cruising around the same time, after or before, and everyone lost their **** about it.

Memphis does it in a big game where we were under pressure and his confidence is in the toilet, and it was deemed excessive and taking the piss

Jayop

Honestly, I don't mind a player showboating anyway. Football is entertainment and seeing someone do some of the things that Depay does makes watching football worthwhile. Of course he's had bad games and hasn't been the player we all wished he would be yet, but don't criticise a player for doing something that will get 80k people off their feet.

user2011

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kqeXXHjJq24

Showboating.... Lol

DM_7

Memphis is behind Mata, Martial, Rashford, Lingard and Mkitaryan. Probably behind Young.

Rashford and Martial are guaranteed further chances if they have struggles as their ultimate success is very important. Mkhitaryan as a Jose signing will get chances. Mata has a high success rate already of taking his chances as does Jesse (overall).

Memphis needs to kill it like Rashford when a chance appears or he might not get regular games.

He will also struggle to get ahead of Young who also proves himself a strong squad player that can contribute with limited game time.

Jayop

user2011 wrote: »

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kqeXXHjJq24

Showboating.... Lol

I loved that tbf. 4-0 up and making dicks out of one of your main opponents!

user2011

Jayop wrote: »

I loved that tbf. 4-0 up and making dicks out of one of your main opponents!

Im sure Ronnie had a few but ready through the discussion there and this was first that popped.

Made to be dicks too with them trying to kick him off the ball, lol.

adox

DM_7 wrote: »

Memphis needs to kill Rashford when a chance appears or he might not get regular games.

This is how I read that part of your post.

Adamocovic

I really hope Memphis plays 90 mins on thursday and has a brilliant game.

Reckon he has all the talent needed but is one of those players that relies heavily on the mental side of the game. Some can get away with it but he appears to be a player that needs to be in the right frame of mind for it all to come together.

Mr.Crinklewood

I miss that music ðŸ™

Lucas Hood

Great journalism here.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/feyenoord-vs-manchester-united-luke-shaw-set-to-skip-return-to-holland-one-year-after-horrific-leg-a7238376.html#commentsDiv

"Mourinho is weighing up whether to start Memphis Depay against his former club."


Memphis who played for Psv.

RobertKK

I wonder if the rain will affect City, ready for the game this evening, then called off and has to be played either tomorrow or Thursday.

At least one of our rivals get less rest than expected.

J. Marston

RobertKK wrote: »

I wonder if the rain will affect City, ready for the game this evening, then called off and has to be played either tomorrow or Thursday.

At least one of our rivals get less rest than expected.

They've got Bournemouth at home on Saturday. Think they'll be grand.

RobertKK

I see Mata on Bloomberg in an ad promoting holidays to Cancun in Mexico, and he got to go there to film it.
Basically go on a holiday there and you will also be helping to fund some foundation.
I think it helps children.

Liam McPoyle

RobertKK wrote: »

I see Mata on Bloomberg in an ad promoting holidays to Cancun in Mexico, and he got to go there to film it.
Basically go on a holiday there and you will also be helping to fund some foundation.
I think it helps children.

jayo26

Looking at di Maria you would wish he joined us 2 years later some fine player.

Manutd_4life

jayo26 wrote: »

Looking at di Maria you would wish he joined us 2 years later some fine player.

Fantastic player but he was bought aimlessly imo and wasnt used to his strengths. Plus his attitude was horrible and he seemed to have given up mid way through the season.

Could have been brilliant but LVGs stubbornness and his attitude got in the way

jayo26

Manutd_4life wrote: »

Fantastic player but he was bought aimlessly imo and wasnt used to his strengths. Plus his attitude was horrible and he seemed to have given up mid way through the season.

Could have been brilliant but LVGs stubbornness and his attitude got in the way

That's why I ment wish we signed him two year later when lvg was gone.

I lay the blame fully on lvg for him not working out I think he just became disillusioned with lvg.

Manutd_4life

jayo26 wrote: »

That's why I ment wish we signed him two year later when lvg was gone.

I lay the blame fully on lvg for him not working out I think he just became disillusioned with lvg.

Yeah I get what you mean. Di Maria is a free flowing creative quick thinking type of player, but LVG wanted everybody to be fixed in their positions (which a lot of the time wasn't even their best position) and play like robots.

LVG does deserve some of the blame but I still think he should have stuck around for a little longer to try and establish himself and prove his critics wrong, but in the end he took the easy route out to French football

Cookie_Dough

RobertKK wrote: »

I wonder if the rain will affect City, ready for the game this evening, then called off and has to be played either tomorrow or Thursday.

At least one of our rivals get less rest than expected.

It's an awful pity it didn't happen while they were playing away

deaddonkey15

It's a bit small time to be wishing and hoping that a cancelled game in a competition that United aren't even in will disrupt City's league form.

VW 1

deaddonkey15 wrote:

It's a bit small time to be wishing and hoping that a cancelled game in a competition that United aren't even in will disrupt City's league form.

Yeah, imagine wanting an advantage on your direct rivals for the league.

Terrible Joe.

Cantona's Collars

A story to hit you in the feels:

http://www.thesportbible.com/football/news-the-power-of-social-media-has-worked-its-magic-once-again-20160913

Yesterday morning, Kayleigh made an appeal on Facebook to try and help her grandfather's wish come true and 24 hours later, it did just that.

Please can anybody help?? I'm trying to get a few of Manchester United players to come and visit my grandad.

We asked him the other day if he would like to do anything before his time comes and he said to meet the team. I've emailed the MUFC foundation but no reply yet! And not sure how long we have left with him so I want to get this as a surprise he's a MASSIVE fan, even tried his hardest to keep his eyes open yesterday to watch the match but sadly he missed it!

I know he will be so gutted that he didn't watch it. I'm sure he will be a very happy man if I can get his last wish!

Thank you to u all, Kayleigh Xxx

The power of social media was present yet again, this time helping a life-long Manchester United fan to meet some of his heroes after the post was shared thousands of times online.

Ashley Young, Jesse Lingard, Marcus Rashford and Timothy Fosu-Mensah turned up to surprise the man after Manchester United's 2-1 defeat to Manchester City last weekend.

The man got his wish but passed away shortly after the lads left.

brinty

zerks wrote:

The man got his wish but passed away shortly after the lads left.

Yep got that right in the feels

Vertigo100

From what I gather Ashley Young is a bit of a legend for stuff like this. Always willing to do stuff.

https://twitter.com/RedorDead07/status/775947658733027328

deaddonkey15

VW 1 wrote: »

Yeah, imagine wanting an advantage on your direct rivals for the league.

Terrible Joe.

A club the size of United, with their expenditure this summer, shouldn't need little advantages like that. Best chance we had to gain an advantage over City was last weekend and we blew it.

StringerBell

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

And this is the reality of Paul Pogba. Anybody who was expecting different hasn't seen much of him since he went to Juve. Granted, I have only watched ~20 games but it's clear as day that he needs to be given a licence to do his thing, with two more diligent players holding position or dictating possession. He will be a great force for us when we eventually decide to build the team around him, but he will struggle at times until we do this. He'll paper over the cracks at times by smashing in a worldie or beating a few men before delivering a telling pass, but we won't get the best out of him until we acknowledge his strengths and weaknesses.

Obviously on a lesser scale, but it reminds me of the Vardy to Arsenal talk this summer. He is doing on well at Leicester because the teams style greatly suits him. You can't just parachute him into a team like Arsenal and expect to reap rewards. Same applies to Pogba and I feel like his transfer fee clouded many people's opinions.

This will need to be bookmarked I feel to use another few times this season! Spot on and something that was mentioned by a couple of posters before he even signed.