Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

Manutd_4life

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

To individually target a player? That would be way beyond what's acceptable.

Yeah I know that is a bit over the top. I'm just fuming atm after witnessing that gobsh*te

adox

Manutd_4life wrote: »

Smalling was also horrific today!!! Blind needs to come back in.

Utd struggled as it was under the high ball. Playing Blind would have only added to those problems.

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

Haha good man McManaman. It's Fellaini fault that Pogba can't play in a two at Utd.

Just turned of the TV after the final whistle. I'd say there will no subjective analysis, and Rooney will get away again thanks to all his media pals.

super_furry

Here come the excuses. Always the referee's fault for Jose.

sReq | uTeK

superfurry1 wrote: »

Bailly had a shocker Shaw was at fault for second goal just backed off and let the pass go Fellaini was good needed hererra. instead of rooney and mata for young bad day hopefully we can put it right next week.

Shaw wasn't on the pitch for the 2nd goal

spiralism

There's no fixing this lads. As a club we are just rotten from top to bottom, it's an absolute shambles. Can't wait for this season to end. I hate this ****ing team.

adox

Disappointing to hear Mourhino blame the ref for the first goal, although not unexpected.

At least holding his hands up for the second goal.

PhlegmyMoses

adox wrote: »

Haha good man McManaman. It's Fellaini fault that Pogba can't play in a two at Utd.

Lots of this going around. Thought Fellaini was our best player today tbh.

I'll take a stab at how I think we should be lining up.

Front three of Rashford, Ibra and Martial. Shaw and Valencia (maybe Young would be better) providing width. Midfield three with Pogba furthest forward. Fellaini and a combo of the various players who can play in midfield that haven't been given their head this year (Schneiderlin, Herrera, Carrick etc) in a two sitting and screening/giving the ball to the better players.

It means no space for Rooney or Mata, but they've had their cha ce in midfield and whilst doing a few bits and pieces, they are creating an imbalance because it's not natural off them. Like it or not Rooney fans, but Pogba is the future and both him and Rooney in midfield is not working.

RasTa

adox wrote: »

Disappointing to hear Mourhino blame the ref for the first goal, although not unexpected.

At least holding his hands up for the second goal.

Why? It was an obvious foul.

Manutd_4life

spiralism wrote: »

There's no fixing this lads. As a club we are just rotten from top to bottom

There is fixing it. It just involves a lot of ballsy decisions which I'm not so sure if Jose is capable of doing so.

RobbingBandit

It took £8m to get rid of LVG see if Rooney would do the same, he is ruining the team.

adox

RasTa wrote: »

Why? It was an obvious foul.

No. debatable at best.

super_furry

super_furry wrote: »

Here come the excuses. Always the referee's fault for Jose.

Why are you suddenly so concerned out of interest?

adox

spiralism wrote: »

There's no fixing this lads. As a club we are just rotten from top to bottom, it's an absolute shambles. Can't wait for this season to end. I hate this ****ing team.

Care to elaborate?

Adamocovic

Not too sure what to expect for the midweek game.

The players who haven't been getting games in the league need to take their chances now and push Mourinho into a decision, can't waste their chances like in the Feyenoord match.

Definitely should see some huge changes made for Northampton game, only hope we see a change in performance too.

RasTa

adox wrote: »

No. debatable at best.

Rubbish, straight through the player to get the ball is always a foul.

PhlegmyMoses

super_furry wrote: »

Here come the excuses. Always the referee's fault for Jose.

I mean, it was a clear foul. I'm never really sure what people want managers to say. Blame the players: Get criticised. Blame the ref: Get criticised. Blame yourself: Get criticised. When you lose and there's a camera shoved in your face looking for soundbites, honest and meaningful critique is not what you get.

adox

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Lots of this going around. Thought Fellaini was our best player today tbh.

I'll take a stab at how I think we should be lining up.

Front three of Rashford, Ibra and Martial. Shaw and Valencia (maybe Young would be better) providing width. Midfield three with Pogba furthest forward. Fellaini and a combo of the various players who can play in midfield that haven't been given their head this year (Schneiderlin, Herrera, Carrick etc) in a two sitting and screening/giving the ball to the better players.

It means no space for Rooney or Mata, but they've had their cha ce in midfield and whilst doing a few bits and pieces, they are creating an imbalance because it's not natural off them. Like it or not Rooney fans, but Pogba is the future and both him and Rooney in midfield is not working.

Yep and it was the constant lazy commentary from Savage on Fellaini that set that narrative.

I'd have the same team as you picked.

Rayne Wooney

Hard to see where we go from here.

It's seems United haven't got the winning mentality anymore. For 3 years we've blamed the coaches but it seems to be a much bigger problem

Sickening looking at City now.

adox

RasTa wrote: »

Rubbish, straight through the player to get the ball is always a foul.

It's debatable whether he went through the player or not so your point is moot.

I've been watching it on a stream but I didn't think it was a free kick. Even if it was it certainly wasn't as black and white as you are making out.

Giggsy11

Lord TSC wrote: »

I have to believe there's something behind the scenes we don't know about. I have to believe that there's something forcing Rooney into the first team, despite not being the best in any of the possible positions he's been playing in.

If there is any truth then Jose shouldn't put up with that crap. Manager's job is online every time so he should make the decisions.

We are at the point where injury to Rooney will be celebrated.

Nalz

Chris_Bradley wrote: »

Obviously Rooney now is near done but singling out any player there would be wrong.

Shambolic from the lot of them.

I thought Shaw was ok, Ibrahimovic made mistakes but showed enough to make up for it. Rashford lively at times, in and out of it. Fellaini had a decent 60mins.

After that I'm struggling to say anything good. Rooney, Pogba & Bailly were poor.

RasTa

adox wrote: »

It's debatable whether he went through the player or not so your point is moot.

I've been watching it on a stream but I didn't think it was a free kick. Even if it was it certainly wasn't as black and white as you are making out.

Well you must be blind then, not sure where the debate is.

https://twitter.com/Life_Is_Short2/status/777471619061145600

adox

RasTa wrote: »

Well you must be blind then, not sure where the debate is.

https://twitter.com/Life_Is_Short2/status/777471619061145600

Quality debating.


Thanks.

The_Kew_Tour

For most of us who are honest we know who to drop and all now.

Defeats happen. Been a bring me back down to earth week but not end of world

adox

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

For most of us who are honest we know who to drop and all now.

Defeats happen. Been a bring me back down to earth week but not end of world

I'm worried. The defeats are bad enough but it's the manner of them which is more worrying.

adox

adox wrote: »

Quality debating.


Thanks.

In all honesty adox
It's clear as day from that clip than martial leg was caught first
Old Steve the biased head on him thinks otherwise

Nalz

adox wrote: »

Quality debating.


Thanks.

At least he posted a video of the incident. What are your views as to why it wasn't a free kick?

yabadabado

adox wrote: »

Haha good man McManaman. It's Fellaini fault that Pogba can't play in a two at Utd.

In fairness McManaman shouldn't be on tv the lad is completely brain dead.I'm never surprised when I hear the rubbish he spouts.
BT did some job in rounding up a few of the worst pundits ever.

adox

Nalz wrote: »

I thought Shaw was ok, Ibrahimovic made mistakes but showed enough to make up for it. Rashford lively at times, in and out of it. Fellaini had a decent 60mins.

After that I'm struggling to say anything good. Rooney, Pogba & Bailly were poor.

Yeah I thought Shaw was probably the best of them and the Fellaini and I thought Ibra always looked a threat despite some scuffed shots and misplaced passes.

RasTa

adox wrote: »

Quality debating.


Thanks.

Anytime, not much of a point on your end. Fail to see what you're seeing in that video.

TheDoc

For what it's worth, I thought it was a foul. One of those if its the other way round sure you go mad, but in your heart of hearts you know was a foul.

Didn't think the touch was significant enough to ignore him cleaning MArtial out of it.

Still no real excuse, shouldn't be loosing to Watford in any scenario.

The_Kew_Tour

adox wrote: »

I'm worried. The defeats are bad enough but it's the manner of them which is more worrying.

Understandable, but it will take time. Maybe even another season. Rome was not built in day

titan18

adox wrote: »

I'm worried. The defeats are bad enough but it's the manner of them which is more worrying.

That and we all know Rooney won't be dropped

Adamocovic

I understand people want Rooney to be dropped, personally surprised he played the full 90 today, he was very poor, but I wont' buy into these conspiracy theories surrounding his involvement in the team.

All this stuff about his contract saying he needs to play every game, or that he has friends in the media who will pounce onto Jose if he drops him or any other of these theories I just find laughable to be honest.

Jose is a big boy who can make his own decisions, he isn't going to compromise his career over something like being afraid of the media criticising him for dropping Rooney. Managers play the players the like, it has been clear even when Mourinho was with Chelsea he liked Rooney, hence the reason he is going with him. Mourinho has shown in the past with many players that he isn't afraid of dropping them, just look at John Terry, so there will presumably be a time when Rooney will be dropped to the bench if he continues with displays like today.

For the people who are extremely angered or annoyed with the persistence of starting Rooney I'd aim my questions towards Jose rather than some conspiracy theories happening behind the scenes.

superfurry1

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Shaw wasn't on the pitch for the 2nd goal

Are you for real Watford's second goal are you special or something else?

Manutd_4life

Foul or no foul aside, Martial should have been taken off after that head collision.

It was clear his head was still dazed when he got the ball.

Terrible stuff all round even from the medical staff

StringerBell

Bailly looks like he needs Blind (or someone calm to help) next to him, much worse without him. Could be because he and Smalling aren't familiar with each other too, but I thought it was telling that Jose namechecked that before, how much Blind has helped him.

Valencia reminded everyone of what he is today, Shaw was alright. Fellaini was alright too, Pogba is being wasted but is going to have to learn how to take more responsibility anyway, he is getting older now and has no safety net behind him anymore. It is on him to improve, he wants to be the best. Martial was ****e, Young tried but isn't good enough either in all honesty. Rooney was brutal, Ibra was isolated and poor until he dropped back a little but great work for the goal, still below par, Rashford tries but again below par, Mata was ok when he came on, I don't remember anything Memphis did, think he got booked.

De Gea had a rare poor enough game, but until that happens more regularly it will not be a concern at all.

Mourinho was awful, team set up was poor, defensively not drilled, subs were not good. Nothing positive to say about him after the game.

edgecutter

Jose needs to get his starting 11 sorted and quickly. Right now we should be focusing on ball playing midfielders, which should mean Fellaini goes to the bench (I know he has played well, but we should be looking to win games and he just doesn't offer enough attacking threat). Herrera, Carrick and even Bastian need to brought in around Pogba to allow some forward momentum.

I know Mickey was poor last week, but he can offer a lot if he gets games. We should be looking to get a solid eleven playing every week in the league.

Also Smalling needs to get his act together quickly, brilliant one minute and then the next he looks brain dead.

adox

Nalz wrote: »

At least he posted a video of the incident. What are your views as to why it wasn't a free kick?

I already said. Watching on my stream it wasn't clear whether he went through Martial to get to the ball as Rasta claimed or whether he got a nick on the ball first and his momentum upended Martial.

I said it was debatable and I didn't think it was a foul, watching it on my stream and said I was disappointed in Jose blaming the ref.

"Rubbish" and "you must be blind" don't add anything. There's enough shisters on this thread so I'm just not going to put up with that.

deaddonkey15

adox wrote: »

No one has said that.

Continue your condescension though. You're gas.

They didn't have to. Reading through the comments here during the match it's pretty obvious who most here are blaming. Yet to people who are capable of looking at things more objectively, it's pretty obvious that the current problems with the side go far deeper than simply benching one player and playing another instead.

astradave wrote: »

Great contribution. Can you point out where I defended Rooney's performance today? It would be a lot more insightful than posting some childish gif, although judging by the amount of thanks it got, expecting insightful discussion in this thread might be a bit of a stretch.

edgecutter wrote: »

So do you believe that he should continue to play week in week out? Would we be a better team without him?

No I don't believe that at all. A few weeks ago I was of the opinion that he should be in the team because we were winning games and Rooney was contributing to goals. That has stopped now, and whilst I don't think Rooney and only Rooney is to blame for the last 3 defeats, something does need to change so I would be in favour of dropping him to try something else. Having said that, I'd be in favour of dropping pretty much anyone from this side except Bailly, Shaw, Valencia and de Gea in order to try something else.

TheDoc wrote: »

A lot of problems will be solved by removing him. A lot

It's a very simple problem Mourinho is being presented with here, that even the commentators were making out as some form of conundrum.

Pogba and Rooney arn't going to both be accommodated. So you need to pick one. It's Pogba so blatantly it shouldn't even merit discussion.

That's a fair enough opinion. However I think Thursday night, as well as a number of games last season has proved that simply taking Rooney out of the team doesn't improve this side by much. Personally I think it's papering over the cracks. United just don't have the cohesiveness, identity and unity that we are seeing from the likes of City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs. That's the main problem and until it's fixed I think we'll continue to flatter to deceive. Some may think the only way to fix it is by removing Rooney and that's fair enough. I think it's more of a mental issue and that Rooney can still play a role in a team that properly clicks.

edgecutter

TheDoc wrote: »

For what it's worth, I thought it was a foul. One of those if its the other way round sure you go mad, but in your heart of hearts you know was a foul.

Didn't think the touch was significant enough to ignore him cleaning MArtial out of it.

Still no real excuse, shouldn't be loosing to Watford in any scenario.

I still feel Martial was stupid in how he dealt with that situation. He needed to clear that ball out for a throw in.

secman

I'd say all the orgasm's we have had to witness since the special one2 was appuoo are well drying up now. And as for the prodigal son Pogba, looks like we were mugged

Koeman off to a good start, called it back at end of last season, a good choice in my books, none of this special boloxology, just a good man manager, good tactician, playing attractive footy.
3 bad choices since SAF left.

Vertigo100

Excuse me but I was told this is the place to come to be told by people using stats that Rooney wasn't actually a steaming pile of dogs ****e today.

Have I come to the right place?

spiralism

adox wrote: »

spiralism wrote: »

There's no fixing this lads. As a club we are just rotten from top to bottom, it's an absolute shambles. Can't wait for this season to end. I hate this ****ing team.

Care to elaborate?

There's no fixing it. Basically it doesn't matter who we appoint, the same mistakes will persist. Rooney will keep getting played til his legs drop off because it's either in his contract or the manager hasnt the balls to drop him. Neither exactly bodes well for the team does it. Mourinho doesn't know his best 11, hasnt the balls to make the tough decisions, we're carrying a **** ton of dead weight in the squad and paying them handsomely for it, Woodward has overpaid on each player to the tune of at least ten million a go because he's an awful negotiator, the ownership situation is a shambles and has long since ****ed over much of the loyal support, the clubs bank balance and much of what the club stands for in return for a few noodles sponsors or some ****e and a legion of plastic fans from asia who'll never set foot in the ground.

And to top it all off the squad is just mentally frail. This is the fourth straight season i believe where we've lost three straight. One setback completely topples the squad for weeks. A mentality issue like that is nigh on impossible to correct.

I could go on and elaborate a bit more if you like but that's the bare bones of it.

RobbingBandit

Northampton in the league cup midweek is next up think I'll give it a miss.

Giggsy11

Read on twitter, in 4 years all the outfield players are changed except 1. Rooney, who is playing in the position that's very important in the attack.

TheDoc

Vertigo100 wrote: »

Excuse me but I was told this is the place to come to be told by people using stats that Rooney wasn't actually a steaming pile of dogs ****e today.

Have I come to the right place?

The stats are used when its ambigous, no ambiguity today, pure muck

edgecutter

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

They didn't have to. Reading through the comments here during the match it's pretty obvious who most here are blaming. Yet to people who are capable of looking at things more objectively, it's pretty obvious that the current problems with the side go far deeper than simply benching one player and playing another instead.



Great contribution. Can you point out where I defended Rooney's performance today? It would be a lot more insightful than posting some childish gif, although judging by the amount of thanks it got, expecting insightful discussion in this thread might be a bit of a stretch.



No I don't believe that at all. A few weeks ago I was of the opinion that he should be in the team because we were winning games and Rooney was contributing to goals. That has stopped now, and whilst I don't think Rooney and only Rooney is to blame for the last 3 defeats, something does need to change so I would be in favour of dropping him to try something else. Having said that, I'd be in favour of dropping pretty much anyone from this side instead of Bailly, Shaw, Valencia and de Gea in order to try something else.



That's a fair enough opinion. However I think Thursday night, as well as a number of games last season has proved that simply taking Rooney out of the team doesn't improve this side by much. Personally I think it's papering over the cracks. United just don't have the cohesiveness, identity and unity that we are seeing from the likes of City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs. That's the main problem and until it's fixed I think we'll continue to flatter to deceive. Some may think the only way to fix it is by removing Rooney and that's fair enough. I think it's more of a mental issue and that Rooney can still play a role in a team that properly clicks.

This season should be different due to the new personal at the club. Thursday night was poor, but that was down to a lot of new faces playing their first game this season.

The only way we can have a cohesive side is by playing players in their proper positions instead of finding a place for them. Rooney was moved to the middle, the 10 position and then to the wing and contributed nothing today. He is like a tree growing in the middle of pitch that everyone just shrugs their shoulders and realises that they just have to make the best out of the situation and play around him. It simply isn't right that Herrara, Carrick and Mata sit on the bench for a has been that hasn't looked after his body.

Also if Rooney is to be dropped it has to be for a number of games to allow other players a chance to get up to speed with the other players.

J. Marston

spiralism wrote: »

There's no fixing it. Basically it doesn't matter who we appoint, the same mistakes will persist. Rooney will keep getting played til his legs drop off because it's either in his contract or the manager hasnt the balls to drop him. Neither exactly bodes well for the team does it. Mourinho doesn't know his best 11, hasnt the balls to make the tough decisions, we're carrying a **** ton of dead weight in the squad and paying them handsomely for it, Woodward has overpaid on each player to the tune of at least ten million a go because he's an awful negotiator, the ownership situation is a shambles and has long since ****ed over much of the loyal support, the clubs bank balance and much of what the club stands for in return for a few noodles sponsors or some ****e and a legion of plastic fans from asia who'll never set foot in the ground.

And to top it all off the squad is just mentally frail. This is the fourth straight season i believe where we've lost three straight. One setback completely topples the squad for weeks. A mentality issue like that is nigh on impossible to correct.

I could go on and elaborate a bit more if you like but that's the bare bones of it.

Are you a Mancunian? Bit hypocritical if you're not.