Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

adox

secman wrote: »

I'd say all the orgasm's we have had to witness since the special one2 was appuoo are well drying up now. And as for the prodigal son Pogba, looks like we were mugged

Koeman off to a good start, called it back at end of last season, a good choice in my books, none of this special boloxology, just a good man manager, good tactician, playing attractive footy.
3 bad choices since SAF left.

You sound like you are letting your personal dislike of Mourhino cloud your judgement with you declarations about managerial choices at the end of September.


Are you honestly suggesting that Koeman would have been a better choice than Mourhino?

RasTa

adox wrote: »

I already said. Watching on my stream it wasn't clear whether he went through Martial to get to the ball as Rasta claimed or whether he got a nick on the ball first and his momentum upended Martial.

I said it was debatable and I didn't think it was a foul, watching it on my stream and said I was disappointed in Jose blaming the ref.

"Rubbish" and "you must be blind" don't add anything. There's enough shisters on this thread so I'm just not going to put up with that.

Well then you're a sensitive one. Why were you disappointed? Can you imagine what Fergie would have said about that incident.

adox

RasTa wrote: »

Well then you're a sensitive one. Why were you disappointed? Can you imagine what Fergie would have said about that incident.

Goodbye.

Victor McDade

Some massive over reactionary ****e being posted. It is fixable and will be fixed in time. Yes, Rooney shouldn't be playing. Yes the formation doesn't look like it's working at the moment. But we're only a handful of games into the season with a new manager and some new players. And with better luck we'd have taken a point from City with a penalty for the foul on Rooney, today Pogba's rocket is 6 inches lower and flies in or Ibra's header beats the keeper and we go on to win.
We'll get better. Relax and give it time

RasTa

adox wrote: »

Goodbye.

lol, dig up stupid.

adox

RasTa wrote: »

lol, dig up stupid.

:rolleyes:

secman

adox wrote: »

Are you honestly suggesting that Koeman would have been a better choice than Mourhino?

Absolutely, he is a manager on the up, and doesn't come with boloxology baggage.

RasTa

adox wrote: »

:rolleyes:

You cite my lack of debating skills but quip back with a rolleyes smiley and one word responses.

Never mind saying actually nothing on the first goal bar repeating what you saw on your stream which doesn't make any sense.

bucketybuck

edgecutter wrote: »

Rooney was moved to the middle, the 10 position and then to the wing and contributed nothing today.

And then people will try to tell you he isn't being shoehorned into the side. :rolleyes:

Imagine hearing the lineup pre-game and Zlatan is named in midfield. "WTF" would be the cry and if the subsequent performance was poor, disjointed and unbalanced then afterwards people would quite rightly point to the obvious problem of the team starting a slow striker out of position in the middle of the field.

Were other players poor? Sure they were, but guess what, we ****ing neutered our team by once again playing shoving Rooney in at the expense of others, until we stop doing that everything else is just window dressing.

Adamocovic

Was a terrible display but I agree with many saying there has been a huge overreaction, probably building up since it has been an awful week.

Thank god we have the midweek game, a chance to go and win a game and try move on from this rather than a long week of us analysing the defeat.

Need a big step up, what a big week coming up for Jose

edgecutter

Victor McDade wrote: »

Some massive over reactionary ****e being posted. It is fixable and will be fixed in time. Yes, Rooney shouldn't be playing. Yes the formation doesn't look like it's working at the moment. But we're only a handful of games into the season with a new manager and some new players. And with better luck we'd have taken a point from City with a penalty for the foul on Rooney, today Pogba's rocket is 6 inches lower and flies in or Ibra's header beats the keeper and we go on to win.
We'll get better. Relax and give it time

The problem is that we are still trying to find our 'best' team and formation. Other teams have had a blip but are now kicking on (Liverpool and Aresnal), yet we are actually getting worse.

There was so many positional changes today to either accommodate players or in hope that moving someone to another position would hopefully create something.

The changes were there for all to see at the end of the first half for what needed to be done to get the best out of the team, but Jose didn't do it. This is what concerns me as it is plain to see that some players need a few weeks out of the 18 man squad.

Jayop

Remember when we had a bad defeat years ago and the team that had to play us next would be ****ting themselves because we'd be absolutely determined to make someone pay for it. That being gone is symbolic of the lack of fight in the club at the moment. Northampton must be rubbing their hands together.


Fellaini was the only man that showed some desire today, easily the United motm even with the penalty given away.

adox

RasTa wrote: »

You cite my lack of debating skills but quip back with a rolleyes smiley and one word responses.

Never mind saying actually nothing on the first goal bar repeating what you saw on your stream which doesn't make any sense.

I did explain when asked by Nalz.

You seem intent on trying to antagonise.

Goodbye and the rolls eyes were all you deserved really and the goodbye was sort of a clue that I was done debating with you.

xtal191

https://twitter.com/benspeech/status/777503461361475584

https://twitter.com/6ixRole/status/777495297547202562

RasTa

adox wrote: »

I already said. Watching on my stream it wasn't clear whether he went through Martial to get to the ball as Rasta claimed or whether he got a nick on the ball first and his momentum upended Martial.

I said it was debatable and I didn't think it was a foul, watching it on my stream and said I was disappointed in Jose blaming the ref.

adox wrote: »

It's debatable whether he went through the player or not so your point is moot.

I've been watching it on a stream but I didn't think it was a free kick. Even if it was it certainly wasn't as black and white as you are making out.

adox wrote: »

I did explain when asked by Nalz.

You seem intent on trying to antagonise.

Goodbye and the rolls eyes were all you deserved really.

As I said you just repeated yourself.

Anyway you seem to have a high opinion of yourself so I'll leave you to it.

bangkok

xtal191 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/benspeech/status/777503461361475584

https://twitter.com/6ixRole/status/777495297547202562

Where's fellaini?!

Headshot

bangkok wrote: »

Where's fellaini?!

Scholes made a good point about him after the game. Mentioned that Fell just breaks up the play brings nothing else. He wont dictate the game etc

Fell and Pogba partnership will never work in the long term, Pogba needs someone beside him that can control the temp and few nice passes to the attack. Someone like Kross

adox

RasTa wrote: »

As I said you just repeated yourself.

Anyway you seem to have a high opinion of yourself so I'll leave you to it.

You seem to making this all a bit personal. Of course I don't have a high opinion of myself but don't have the incling to reply to "rubbish" and "you must be blind" as responses.

You seem intent on dragging this out. I've given my reasons why I thought the free kick call was debatable.

bangkok

Headshot wrote: »

Scholes made a good point about him after the game. Mentioned that Fell just breaks up the play brings nothing else. He wont dictate the game etc

Fell and Pogba partnership will never work in the long term, Pogba needs someone beside him that can control the temp and few nice passes to the attack. Someone like Kross

Or carrick or sweinsteiger...

PhlegmyMoses

The problem with the tackle on Martial is the trailing leg completely taking him out of the game. He gets the slightest of nicks on the ball with the first tackle, then kicks through him in the second motion, not touching the ball, which gives Martial no chance to recover. Foul all day. That being said, we still lose without that imo. We were shocking.

Victor McDade

edgecutter wrote: »

The problem is that we are still trying to find our 'best' team and formation. Other teams have had a blip but are now kicking on (Liverpool and Aresnal), yet we are actually getting worse.

There was so many positional changes today to either accommodate players or in hope that moving someone to another position would hopefully create something.

The changes were there for all to see at the end of the first half for what needed to be done to get the best out of the team, but Jose didn't do it. This is what concerns me as it is plain to see that some players need a few weeks out of the 18 man squad.

I don't disagree with any of what you said but we need to be patient. Two big refereeing decisions have cost us points in the last two games, everyone has their own ideas about how to fix it. I just think it's a bit early for the outcry on this thread in the last hour. If it's still awful football by Halloween then it's time to worry.
Winning the league is probably beyond United this season, so top 4 is the target. Arsenal will have another blip soon enough, Liverpool look good but always prone to ballsing up against lower teams. Things can change so quickly

Liam O

bangkok wrote: »

Where's fellaini?!

Can you not see him in both pictures?

He's being given the run around because beside Pogba he's basically a lone midfielder as Pogba is very tactically naive. The 2 players capable of playing the deep role are over 30 and Mourinho doesn't fancy one of them. Fellaini can't keep being asked to cover both sides and the middle without anyone else there, he gets dragged to one side and it leaves gaping hole in the middle.

Really missed Blind today, he covers a lot of those gaps.

Adamocovic

As much as Fellaini has done well this season I really do want to see Blind tried in that DM position.

edgecutter

Victor McDade wrote: »

I don't disagree with any of what you said but we need to be patient. Two big refereeing decisions have cost us points in the last two games, everyone has their own ideas about how to fix it. I just think it's a bit early for the outcry on this thread in the last hour. If it's still awful football by Halloween then it's time to worry.
Winning the league is probably beyond United this season, so top 4 is the target. Arsenal will have another blip soon enough, Liverpool look good but always prone to ballsing up against lower teams. Things can change so quickly

You can't keep blaming refs for us losing games. Today we offered very little and we should be panicking because the bigger games are coming soon.

PhlegmyMoses

Liam O wrote: »

Can you not see him in both pictures?

He's being given the run around because beside Pogba he's basically a lone midfielder as Pogba is very tactically naive. The 2 players capable of playing the deep role are over 30 and Mourinho doesn't fancy one of them. Fellaini can't keep being asked to cover both sides and the middle without anyone else there, he gets dragged to one side and it leaves gaping hole in the middle.

Really missed Blind today, he covers a lot of those gaps.

Fellaini is literally tracking runs in both pics. Did very well on he second goal to cover the gap and was let down by his team mates standing still.

adox

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Fellaini miss let rally tracling runs in both pics. Did very well from the second tone cover the gap and was let down by his team mates standing still.

Haha What?:pac:

StringerBell

Fellaini went tracking runs and was let down by his partner who was not switched on.

Victor McDade

edgecutter wrote: »

You can't keep blaming refs for us losing games. Today we offered very little and we should be panicking because the bigger games are coming soon.

I didn't mean to come across like I'm saying it's only the referees to blame. But with no changes to the system, just better luck/fair decisions we'd be in a much better position and this doom and gloom in here wouldn't be happening.
I go back to what I said earlier, it will get better. We are muck at the moment but we need to be patient

eagle eye

I think the manager has to take the blame for what happened to United today. I said before the kickoff that I wasn't impressed with the starting lineup. Smalling and Bailly should never be on the field together imo, it's just a mistake waiting to happen.

Certainly Rashford deserved a run but I don't see why Rooney and Martial get picked.

After 20 minutes of the game today it was clear that there was a disconnect between the front four and the deeper midfield. It was pretty obvious who could solve that issue and his name is Juan Mata but he didn't come on until late in the game.

No sign of Mkhitaryan today, was he injured? Pogba made a huge mistake for the second goal. Of course Schweinsteiger can't even get into the squad which seems ludicrous to me. He is another player that would have been a good one to bring on today. I'd imagine that along with his good football he'd also bring a bit of leadership which is clearly missing from that team.

Mourinho has struck me over the last couple of years as somebody that never changes his mind about anything even if it's to the detriment of the team. He gets all the blame for a pathetic performance by United today imo.

Rossi IRL

Pogba needs a kick up the arse.

He cant just have no responsibilities as a midfielder but I suppose this should come with more experience playing in that position though.

Fellaini is trying to do the work of the 2 of them at the moment.

caviardreams

eagle eye wrote: »

No sign of Mkhitaryan today, was he injured?

Pretty sure he was. Went for an MRI last week iirc.

RasTa

caviardreams wrote: »

Pretty sure he was. Went for an MRI last week iirc.

Yeah out for 10 days after City, he is another who hasn't got off to a great start so we might see him on Wednesday.

gosplan

Just play a central three of...

Fell - Pogba
----Mata

Or

Fell - Herrera
---Pogba


Then two wingers and Zlatan up front.

Not perfect but people in their correct positions at least. You might not beat City but you won't lose to Watford.

PhlegmyMoses

adox wrote: »

Haha What?:pac:

****ing auto correct. :pac:

Rayne Wooney

We knew what type of player Pogba was before we paid 90 million for him

One of the two in a midfield 3 with little responsibilities, he is a 90 million pound paper weight if we use him in a 4231 beside Fellaini.

Can we just play players in proper positions and see how that works out? Is that going to make us much worse than losing comprehensively 3 times in a week?

#15

TheDoc wrote: »

Louis Van Gaal pretty much let his reputation turn into parody by entertaining Rooney.

Lol, that's not true. There were lots of other things that Van Gaal did to make a fool of himself.
He mishandled Rooney, but he mishandled pretty much everything he touched.

Richard Hillman

Leicester are going to go to OT next week with a chip on their shoulder and not burdened by possession. If Pogba is going to go on a repeat of his City performance, Leicester will pick united off. Rooney will spend his game chasing back and end up playing as a Quarterback playing sideways football. Perfect for Leicester.

StringerBell

Great, could you give me a quick weather forecast too? I'm off on a stag next weekend and hoping to get a bit of decent weather

Kirby

StringerBell wrote: »

Great, could you give me a quick weather forecast too? I'm off on a stag next weekend and hoping to get a bit of decent weather

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeUrIA64ZOI

Adamocovic

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Leicester are going to go to OT next week with a chip on their shoulder and not burdened by possession. If Pogba is going to go on a repeat of his City performance, Leicester will pick united off. Rooney will spend his game chasing back and end up playing as a Quarterback playing sideways football. Perfect for Leicester.

But Quarterbacks make forward passes :pac:

brinty

Adamocovic wrote:

But Quarterbacks make forward passes

Only on third downs when their running backs haven't made sufficient yards

Pro. F

brinty wrote: »

Only on third downs when their running backs haven't made sufficient yards

What is this, the 1960s?

54and56

nullzero wrote: »

Jose must be running out of excuses at this stage, 3-1 to Watford is pathetic by any standards, and to have been comprehensively outplayed for the bulk of the game leaves no room for excuses.

Continue like this and we'll be lucky to achieve a top half finish and Jose could be collecting his P45 before Christmas.

Rooney's race is run at this stage, has had a love hate relationship with the fans but has usually produced the goods, now he's beyond saving and his wages alone are incentive to sell him in January.

^^^ This 100%

I genuinely don't understand why Mourinho was given the job. He decided Kevin De Bruyne wasn't worth holding onto, he created a poisonous atmosphere at Chelsea (the disgraceful way Eva Carneiro was treated being a low point) and he managed to turn PL champions into utter dross.

His reward? The Man U job. You couldn't make it up.

Sir Bobby Charlton didn't want him anywhere near the club but was over ruled.

He's persisting with Rooney when he shouldn't, he's placing a lot of faith in a 35 year old striker who still knows how to score but contributed little else and he's playing the worlds most expensive player out of position.

Will he still be manager at Xmas? I don't think so.

StringerBell

Pro. F

I wasn't too worried about the last two games - one was just after an international break and the other was with a lot of changes - but today is a real worry. So many things going wrong against very ordinary opposition.

The back four were the biggest problem for me. They were so jittery, in possession and under high balls. Smalling and Bailly are both weak at passing, but if you put Blind in there you'd have to think the high balls would have been even more of a problem. (Edit:) And just to be clear, I don't think Smalling and Bailly, even with their relatively weak passing, should be expected to be having this much trouble in possession. It's like the rest of the team, they are underperforming. (/edit)

The defensive organisation of the midfield seemed to be very hit and miss as well. Pogba and Fellaini did okay building a platform of possession. Pogba still isn't contributing enough simple passes for me, but it wasn't so bad. The CBs were more of a problem in that regard imo. Pogba shoots from far out too often and Fellaini gave away too many easy frees/penalties in the last 10 minutes or so.

Martial was cat. Hopefully that knock isn't too serious. Rashford didn't hold onto the ball enough, but that can and should be accommodated if we want a striker/winger. Even if Martial had played better, I think two striker/wingers is too much in a 4231.

Rooney was the best of the front four in the first half, but that won't have stopped him being blamed for everything. He absolutely tanked at the beginning of the second half and I was surprised he wasn't subbed. But then Mourinho only subbed on attackers for defenders, so that was understandable, and then Rooney copped on anyway.

Ibra had a mixed bag. Didn't hold the ball up particularly well but he got shots off in the box and created the goal as well, so I wouldn't be complaining about him either.

The performance from the team overall is miles from good enough and it's a concern that so many different things are going wrong. Mourinho's style has been very different to LVG's, but seeing this team where every player looks off the pace to some extent is very reminiscent.

Adamocovic

RobbingBandit wrote: »

How different a team can we expect on Wednesday.

Surely with it being a cup game against Northampton well see quite a few changed and given a chance.

Should be a lot of changes to the team that started today.

Watford's first win against United in 30 years. 2002 since a Jose team last suffered three successive defeats. We somehow keep finding these shíte records to smash every season as normal now.

On paper, and going by individual players, we have a good midfield. In reality though and as a unit, it's not there. While I don't think that one player and tactical change is going to send the team on an unbeaten streak, I do lament Jose's refusal so far to tinker around with the MF personnel at his disposal in the hope of getting the best out of what's available to him.

Despite Fellaini playing well so far this season, a midfield two of he and Pogba is clearly not going to be enough in most games. That contract extension for Carrick is making no sense so far. Herrera can't get into the team even though he impressed in the derby and was one of the better (read: least worse) players against Feyenoord. Morgan Schneiderlin is all but a non-entity.

I really think the team could do with one more of those players alongside Fellaini and Pogba playing in a three. Ideally Herrera, someone with that grit and determination, but also the ability to pick a pass or advance an attack in the final third. Even score a goal every few games. The same can be said for Pogba. However, our MF isn't going to get many chances to be creative when two of them are using most of their energy to constantly secure and maintain possession.

Defence has been poor for the last few games, but the MF is getting overran and/or bypassed far too easily and that is the first failure of the team's defense. That would be somewhat excusable if the team were getting 3-4 goals on the counter, but our counter-attack is barely there and is currently lacking in pace and decisiveness in quick situations.

Anyway, today was a worry. Watford scored two good goals in play (even if Martial did get fouled for the first) and rightfully got a penalty for their third goal (Bailly got turned inside-out and back again in the build-up to that). A deserved win for Watford unfortunately. After a promising but false-dawn start to the season, it is now clear that this United side are not title-contenders yet and there's a lot of progress to be made, both on the pitch and with the manager.

StringerBell

May aswell give Carrick his first game, I'd take Pogba out, or actually, no I'd keep him in, and put Herrera in too in a midfield 3 with Carrick at the base though it is probably asking for trouble given the likely big fight that will be put up to the team by Northampton and also if he is done with Carrick then just put Morgan in there and get him up to speed. I'd start Memphis and Rashford along with Mata. In defence I want to see TFM get some game time, I would also like to see Tuanzebe. Darmian to get more minutes under his belt and hopefully return to the first team sooner rather then later. I think its his gas tank that Mourinho isn't a fan of.

I don't care if we lose, I just want to see players get minutes because they are going to be needed over the course of the season.

Nalz

Pro. F wrote: »

I wasn't too worried about the last two games - one was just after an international break and the other was with a lot of changes - but today is a real worry. So many things going wrong against very ordinary opposition.

The back four were the biggest problem for me. They were so jittery, in possession and under high balls. Smalling and Bailly are both weak at passing, but if you put Blind in there you'd have to think the high balls would have been even more of a problem. (Edit:) And just to be clear, I don't think Smalling and Bailly, even with their relatively weak passing, should be expected to be having this much trouble in possession. It's like the rest of the team, they are underperforming. (/edit)

The defensive organisation of the midfield seemed to be very hit and miss as well. Pogba and Fellaini did okay building a platform of possession. Pogba still isn't contributing enough simple passes for me, but it wasn't so bad. The CBs were more of a problem in that regard imo. Pogba shoots from far out too often and Fellaini gave away too many easy frees/penalties in the last 10 minutes or so.

Martial was cat. Hopefully that knock isn't too serious. Rashford didn't hold onto the ball enough, but that can and should be accommodated if we want a striker/winger. Even if Martial had played better, I think two striker/wingers is too much in a 4231.

Rooney was the best of the front four in the first half, but that won't have stopped him being blamed for everything. He absolutely tanked at the beginning of the second half and I was surprised he wasn't subbed. But then Mourinho only subbed on attackers for defenders, so that was understandable, and then Rooney copped on anyway.

Ibra had a mixed bag. Didn't hold the ball up particularly well but he got shots off in the box and created the goal as well, so I wouldn't be complaining about him either.

The performance from the team overall is miles from good enough and it's a concern that so many different things are going wrong. Mourinho's style has been very different to LVG's, but seeing this team where every player looks off the pace to some extent is very reminiscent.

Saying Rooney was the best of our front four isn't saying much by any stretch, plus I don't. See how he was to be honest. We're talking tiny insignificant margins at this stage and it reads to me like a weak attempt to defend him re a recent argument about how good Rooney has been for club and country. Just how I see it.

I agree 100℅ re Pogba, Ibra, Bailly, Martial and Fellaini. Fellaini went form 8/10 to nearly 6 /10 within the last 10-15 minutes.

RasTa

Not sure who was worse today, us or Dublin. Looking forward to the day of sport and what an anti-climax.

Anyway Rooney has to be dropped for the next PL game.